How to get started growing indoors organically - No bottles

[bobrown14]

I'm going to try organic raw agave nectar. Good source of calcium and shouldn't hurt the microbes.
Also molasses is a source of magnesium for your plants.
GB80

This is a better sugar than using BSM in your ACT/SST. I use organic BSM for teas but there are better options. This is one.

If you read up on how BSM is processed you probably wouldn't purchase it! This is not a earth friendly process!

I use it mainly out of habit but I've been eyeing up the agave goodn's lately at Whole Foods.

 

[36Gr0w]

I use agave or bsm for teas, and agave with some foliars.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Bob could you share some of your findings on how BSM is made?

 

[bobrown14]

short form is:

Heated 3 cycles using lots of fossil fuel creating lots of green house gas etc. If its green or not ripe they add sulfur to separate the sugars from the cane pulp and in turn that sulfur has to be removed from the mix as its not healthy for human consumption.

Yeah highly processed, the BSM is the result (dredges) of the processing. Yes it has lots of beneficial minerals and so does Blue Agave nectar but with a lot less processing depending on the type of agave nectar and how its processed.

There's a natural version:
Miel de Agave that is processed the old world way that is better.

All that said I use ORGANIC un-sulfured BSM in my canna tea for personal consumption and also for ACT in the garden.

So there's 2 choices with BSM having the most amount of minerals and Blue Agave Nectar a close 2nd in the minerals department.

Here's some cool info on Blue Agave Nectar in case anyone thinks its bad for us. There's a ton of BS out there.

Agave Fact vs Fiction | Wholesome!

 

[JohnnyC]

Hey guys anyone here familiar with kind soil


Sent from my iPhone using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[Tony Urban]

Quick question(s):

My local establishment did not have crab or crustacean meal, but I picked up some diatomaceous earth, can I use that in place of the crustacean meal? I found oyster shell powder so that I will still have in the mix.

Is Azomite just a fancy/trademarked name for basalt?

Bentonite is another issue. However I have access to some high quality glacial lake clay deposits that naturally formed in my area. Would this work in place of the bentonite...despite the potential for local weed stock or other organisms that may be introduced into my soil?

 

[SweetSue]

Quick question(s):

My local establishment did not have crab or crustacean meal, but I picked up some diatomaceous earth, can I use that in place of the crustacean meal? I found oyster shell powder so that I will still have in the mix.

Is Azomite just a fancy/trademarked name for basalt?

Bentonite is another issue. However I have access to some high quality glacial lake clay deposits that naturally formed in my area. Would this work in place of the bentonite...despite the potential for local weed stock or other organisms that may be introduced into my soil?

Diatomaceous earth is a great source for silica and will help you grow strong branches to support your heavy colas, but it won't replace crustacean meal.

I see bobrown14 keeps tabs on this thread, so I'll leave the explaining to him. He has more understanding of this than I do.

 

[Tony Urban]

Diatomaceous earth is a great source for silica and will help you grow strong branches to support your heavy colas, but it won't replace crustacean meal.

I see bobrown14 keeps tabs on this thread, so I'll leave the explaining to him. He has more understanding of this than I do.

Well I am not pissin' around, I ordered some neem meal and crab shell meal to get this soil together sooner rather than later. The other rock dust components are more flexible and I will just get it done. Thanks Sue

 

[bobrown14]

Quick question(s):

My local establishment did not have crab or crustacean meal, but I picked up some diatomaceous earth, can I use that in place of the crustacean meal? I found oyster shell powder so that I will still have in the mix.

Is Azomite just a fancy/trademarked name for basalt?

Bentonite is another issue. However I have access to some high quality glacial lake clay deposits that naturally formed in my area. Would this work in place of the bentonite...despite the potential for local weed stock or other organisms that may be introduced into my soil?

AZOMITE is a trade name for rockdust from a volcanic eruption 30 million years ago that is mined in Utah. So trade name.. The name comes from all the trace minerals... a to z some 70 plus different ones. Problem is that AZOMITE is it's a alumina-silicate material. Which is not un common in rock dust from volcanic ash.

What we want in container gardening is:

granite, basalt and glacial rock dust

All 3 if you have the patience to find them.

Bentonite is a clay. Similar to AZOMITE - lots of aluminum-silicate.

Best to stick with 3 rock dusts mentioned (or any of them) .... should be able to source them for pennies per pound as apposed to the A to Z stuff.

For crustacean meal - aka crab shell meal, shrimp meal ..... IMHO pretty easy to source online and I would seek it out. Amazon is a place...

Crustacean meal is 96% Calcium Carbonate + with chitins. .. the chitins is what's good for plants. We get that from crab/shrimp/lobster shells and insects. Here's where it comes into play. The chitins get broken down by chitinase which also attacks insects and insect eggs in the soil and also helps plants fight off disease. The calcium is slow release so its good for soil building.

Hint: don't buy a big bag... I have 1/2 of a 40# bag left I bought 2 years ago and use it around my outdoor gardens all the time. Left to it's own devices, I got a nice insect (moths) colony living in the bag.... so store accordingly. It's good stuff despite all that. GREAT for tomatoes outdoors and great for cannabis.

BTW - part of my hummus portion of my soil mix I've been using lately is Coast of Main Lobster Compost. I can get it locally for $8 a bag. Good stuff...

 

[Conradino23]

Quick question(s):

My local establishment did not have crab or crustacean meal, but I picked up some diatomaceous earth, can I use that in place of the crustacean meal? I found oyster shell powder so that I will still have in the mix.

Is Azomite just a fancy/trademarked name for basalt?

Bentonite is another issue. However I have access to some high quality glacial lake clay deposits that naturally formed in my area. Would this work in place of the bentonite...despite the potential for local weed stock or other organisms that may be introduced into my soil?

If you have oyster shell powder then you have your source of calcium carbonate and this will be slow release which means it will be enough for few grows. I don't know if you can benefit largely from bentonite though. It's mostly water absorbent and there are so many subtypes of it that you have to be careful that you don't get a potassium or aluminium rich one, which can easily screw your mix. Don't use too many ingredients, that's my advice. Use a good organic soil as a base and then work your way up with necessary amendments that can't be avoided, but stay off any stuff that might double what you already have.

 

[Pondwater]

I'm not sure on the price honestly, I can buy everything I need to run a 3 lb. Crop for $50. Well then $75 more with soil and amendments. I've been fascinated with living soil though, its hard to change everything when its running so smoothly. So I don't disagree with you but I agree with me to. I've been really tempted to just not feed one and see what happens, if I feed over 400 ppm it burns them. I've been researching and reading to figure out why, the best awnser I can find is I'm feeding the soil now instead of feeding the plants?

how do you read ppm in a soil mix?
i never understand how it doesnt burn having the whole food cycle there start to finnish. like n my bottles they burn if i go slightly over the feed dose but here u can use 3 months in 1 go?

what are yields like doing these live soil no feed grows ive always known soil growers here to only get like 20gram a plant

when subtituting or changing how do you workout to get the right npks? or is it a guessing game?
no ph? my taps 7.3ph

do you get any bugs my biggest fear on soil mixes is the bugs n mites

 

[Marzbadrock]

Current soil grow....should be about 12 pounds yield. No ph, no ppm, no tds.....just ocean forrest soil and natures nectar nutes.

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[BeanTownFan420]

Team no PH!

 

[Vegan4life]

here is a c/p of a post I made (c/p) on the 420mag coconut water thread.
I find natural green coconut water too expensive. Im going with the organic corn sprouted seed tea as my go to enzyme tea (soil soak/drench whatever you wanna call it)

green coconut water is a source of cytokinins, a powerful growth enzyme. here is some information from buildasoil for you to check out.
re: cytokinins
"Cytokinin: A Plant Hormone. (Coconut Water and Corn SST)
March 05 2014, 0 Comments


Cytokinins

Have you been reading about using Coconut Water or Corn SST?

What are these Cytokinins anyways? Check out this detailed information.

Nature of Cytokinins:
Cytokinins are compounds with a structure resembling adenine which promote cell division and have other similar functions to kinetin. Kinetin was the first cytokinin discovered and so named because of the compounds ability to promote cytokinesis (cell division). Though it is a natural compound, It is not made in plants, and is therefore usually considered a "synthetic" cytokinin (meaning that the hormone is synthesized somewhere other than in a plant). The most common form of naturally occurring cytokinin in plants today is called zeatin which was isolated from corn (Zea mays).

Cytokinins have been found in almost all higher plants as well as mosses, fungi, bacteria, and also in tRNA of many prokaryotes and eukaryotes. Today there are more than 200 natural and synthetic cytokinins combined. Cytokinin concentrations are highest in meristematic regions and areas of continuous growth potential such as roots, young leaves, developing fruits, and seeds (Arteca, 1996; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).

History of Cytokinins
In 1913, Gottlieb Haberlandt discovered that a compound found in phloem had the ability to stimulate cell division (Haberlandt, 1913). In 1941, Johannes van Overbeek discovered that the milky endosperm from coconut also had this ability. He also showed that various other plant species had compounds which stimulated cell division (van Overbeek, 1941). In 1954, Jablonski and Skoog extended the work of Haberlandt showing that vascular tissues contained compounds which promote cell division (Jablonski and Skoog, 1954). The first cytokinin was isolated from herring sperm in 1955 by Miller and his associates (Miller et al., 1955). This compound was named kinetin because of its ability to promote cytokinesis. Hall and deRopp reported that kinetin could be formed from DNA degradation products in 1955 (Hall and deRopp, 1955). The first naturally occurring cytokinin was isolated from corn in 1961 by Miller (Miller, 1961). It was later called zeatin. Almost simultaneous with Miller Letham published a report on zeatin as a factor inducing cell division and later described its chemical properties (Letham, 1963). It is Miller and Letham that are credited with the simultaneous discovery of zeatin. Since that time, many more naturally occurring cytokinins have been isolated and the compound is ubiquitous to all plant species in one form or another (Arteca, 1996; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).


Biosynthesis and Metabolism of Cytokinins
Cytokinin is generally found in higher concentrations in meristematic regions and growing tissues. They are believed to be synthesized in the roots and translocated via the xylem to shoots. Cytokinin biosynthesis happens through the biochemical modification of adenine. The process by which they are synthesized is as follows (McGaw, 1995; Salisbury and Ross, 1992):
A product of the mevalonate pathway called isopentyl pyrophosphate is isomerized.
This isomer can then react with adenosine monophosphate with the aid of an enzyme called isopentenyl AMP synthase.
The result is isopentenyl adenosine-5'-phosphate (isopentenyl AMP).
This product can then be converted to isopentenyl adenosine by removal of the phosphate by a phosphatase and further converted to isopentenyl adenine by removal of the ribose group.
Isopentenyl adenine can be converted to the three major forms of naturally occurring cytokinins.
Other pathways or slight alterations of this one probably lead to the other forms.
Degradation of cytokinins occurs largely due to the enzyme cytokinin oxidase. This enzyme removes the side chain and releases adenine. Derivitives can also be made but the pathways are more complex and poorly understood.


Cytokinin Functions
A list of some of the known physiological effects caused by cytokinins are listed below. The response will vary depending on the type of cytokinin and plant species (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).
-Stimulates cell division.

-Stimulates morphogenesis (shoot initiation/bud formation) in tissue culture.

-Stimulates the growth of lateral buds-release of apical dominance.

-Stimulates leaf expansion resulting from cell enlargement.

-May enhance stomatal opening in some species.

-Promotes the conversion of etioplasts into chloroplasts via stimulation of chlorophyll synthesis.





The illustration above shows the effect of cytokinin and auxin concentration on tissue culture experiments (Mauseth, 1991)


Source: https://www.plant-hormones.info/cytokinins.htm"


re: sprouted corn seed
"Corn is known to be high in Cytokinins.

"Cytokinins will increase the girth and tinsel strength of the side branches and stronger branches will produce larger and heavier flowers." -Clackamas Coots

Instead of buying an expensive enzyme product in a bottle, you can make your own!

Cytokinin Functions
A list of some of the known physiological effects caused by cytokinins are listed below. The response will vary depending on the type of cytokinin and plant species (Davies, 1995; Mauseth, 1991; Raven, 1992; Salisbury and Ross, 1992).
-Stimulates cell division.

-Stimulates morphogenesis (shoot initiation/bud formation) in tissue culture.

-Stimulates the growth of lateral buds-release of apical dominance.

-Stimulates leaf expansion resulting from cell enlargement.

-May enhance stomatal opening in some species.

-Promotes the conversion of etioplasts into chloroplasts via stimulation of chlorophyll synthesis.

Super Sprouted Tea Version 2.0: (Credit to some old Coot)

56 Grams Corn Seed (2 Ounces)

Soak for 12-24 hours with Clean Water

Sprout seeds until tail is 1/2 inch long or about 1-2 days.

Blend in a food blender or whatever you have with a little bit of water to help it blend.

Add this to 5 gallons water and you have one of the worlds most nutritious Plant Enzyme Teas available for PENNIES"

I know this is a old thread, def worth bumping it up...

I was reading on another website that twice the strength sprouted corn sst can be used to keep taller strains from growing too tall. Has anyone experienced this?

Quote from other website:

"Corn or maize sprouts are high in enzymes, minerals and nutrients, and also very rich in cytokinins, a plant growth hormone which promotes lateral budding, branching and the development of thicker stems leading to improved nutrient transport and the capacity for heavier crops. It can even be used at twice the strength to control height, resulting in really squat, bushy plants, perfect for growing spaces with reduced headroom."

 

[Big Sparks]

I know this is a old thread, def worth bumping it up...

I was reading on another website that twice the strength sprouted corn sst can be used to keep taller strains from growing too tall. Has anyone experienced this?

Quote from other website:

"Corn or maize sprouts are high in enzymes, minerals and nutrients, and also very rich in cytokinins, a plant growth hormone which promotes lateral budding, branching and the development of thicker stems leading to improved nutrient transport and the capacity for heavier crops. It can even be used at twice the strength to control height, resulting in really squat, bushy plants, perfect for growing spaces with reduced headroom."

Never heard this before or have i really noticed if it was keeping my girls short n squat. But i do use Compost Teas, and SST teas. And ive used them mostly at full strength. Meaning i sprout my corn (from buildasoil) then blend the sprouts in a blender with just enough water to get the job done. Then add the strained liquid into anywhere from 3-5 gallons of RO water in a 5 gallon bucket. Then you can bubble this mix for a hanful of hours, or just apply straight to soil as a drench. And can also be used as a foliar spray.