Tomster420
Well-Known Member
Lol yeah I already follow MNS on IG, was just going through some photos of Franks. Seems like a lot of oldschool pics ranging from the late 60's to early 80's. I'll be having more of a look later, cheers mate 
Landrace Genetics 101
- Thread starter Conradino23
- Start date
The lockdown and identification comes at a price, which is the drawback of Walkabout but the potential to find and breed with..
Tomster420
Well-Known Member
Who gives a fuck about identification when you can get 15+ seeds for under 20 Euro
It may take longer to find the thing you want but at least you aren't sucking someones dick for it ya know what I mean? Lol
Some of the history is a bit... sordid. Quite a lot of it, actually - a lot of the principles would make good soap opera stars, because they already have the mindset of the characters down pat
.And some of this is distressing (and depressing). If a devious son of a b!tch happens to have bred a strain or two, and then given it more or less freely to a lot of other breeders... and at least some of those breeders have "spread the genetics throughout his collection" (Mal at Nirvana Seeds, for example, has used Skunk #1 as a parent (grandparent, etc.) for many of his strains)... and cannabis eventually becomes legalized at the federal level in the USA, then Mr. Devious will be able to pull a Monsanto: Lay claim to the genetics he bred and then force growers to buy his seed, pay a court-enforced penalty for refusing to give in, and put non-cooperative seedbanks/breeders out of business.
This seems to be an impossibility? Yeah, well... Monsanto has managed to ruin more than one small farmer - who had, previously, grown heirloom seeds passed down through the generations - after the farmers' crops got polluted with Monsanto-owned genetics... by seed literally falling off of a truck! And then the farmer's entire collection of seeds became suspect, of course.
There will always be cannabis seeds quietly passed around among friends, of course (although there seems to be less of it in the era of Internet-connected seedbanks than there were before everyone had easy access). But it could really harm commercial entities which, by definition, need some sort of public presence in order to do business.
The above applies to the USA - where it is possible to patent an organism's genetics. I do not know about other countries, whether they honor USA patent-holders' rights, whether they even allow such patents in the first place, et cetera.
Who gives a fuck about identification when you can get 15+ seeds for under 20 Euro
By that logic, maybe you should consider purchasing non-certified viable hemp seeds, lol. You can get them for $40 per pound (in the USA). Non-certified means (among other things) that any buds harvested from the resulting plants are not guaranteed to be .3% or less THC(a) and/or 3% or less CBD(a) - and, since a pound of them averages something like 27,000 seeds, lol, the odds of finding at least one decent (for our purposes) one seems pretty good. Of course, it may take longer to find the thing you want...
Yes, I am being (somewhat) facetious. But I have never understood the anger that people have in regards to the price of cannabis seeds. If I pay (for example) $200 for 10 seeds - and, admittedly, doing so would constitute a hardship for a person who sometimes has to spend that much or less for a month's food - and, even with the associated costs to grow the stuff, cannot produce a harvest that is worth at least that much in bud, whether it's bud I choose to sell (which I no longer do) or bud that I don't have to go out and purchase... then something is terribly wrong with me and my ability to grow plants. How much does an ounce of even halfway-decent bud cost these days? $150? $200? More? I learned a few months ago, when trying to buy my brother a birthday present, that the rumors are true - some people actually sell cannabis for $20 per gram. Well f*ck me, lol, I can get a seed for that much
. And that seed - which, surely, will produce more than a gram on average, even if it's part of a $200 ten-pack and two to six end up being males - can end up producing hundreds (or more) clones and/or, easily, thousands of seeds. A cannabis seed is like the gift that keeps on giving (even if you have to pay something for it, initially).I just felt like a good rant
.There's nothing wrong with growing cannabis from seeds that were originally sold five for $30 or even cheaper. I've done it, myself, and will continue to do so because I don't place a priority on the cost of seeds. But at the same time, automatically refusing to consider a strain because its seeds are "expensive" is, potentially, shooting oneself in the foot in the figurative sense.
Sometimes, I give people seeds. I don't look at the price tag, merely consider whether or not I'll be growing the strain in the future and how many I have. Sometimes, people give me seeds. I've received seeds that cost less than a dinner for two in a restaurant for an entire pack, and I've received ones that cost (checks on the price of Mr. Nice Mango Haze at a random "seedbank superstore") $191.69 per pack. I greatly appreciated both sets. I assume that the giver didn't think about the price when es was putting together that little care package. The person knew that I'd appreciate all of them, along with the fact that the person was kind enough to give me some seeds.
It doesn't happen all that often, but breeders and seedbank owners do occasionally get busted. Even if they don't end up in jail, they might lose their mother/father plant lines - and have to endure a lot of hassle. So I figure if someone is willing to publicly advertise their business, sell me seeds, and do so in such a way that either I don't have to give identifying information or that information is disposed of post haste so that IF they get nailed, I don't have to worry about the personal repercussions... and they decide to charge me a little more than just their gross operating expenses plus "standard retail markup," well, that's okay with me. I don't mind the thought of helping a regular Joe die rich, especially if/when he provides so much value. Beats spending my money at ChinaMart, I reckon. . . .
Makes sense... You want a little bite I know you don't like pheno hunting but you know our cheap priced aren't cheap genetics/hemp ...that mango haze, I picked up for $40.. I'm not sure on whats fairer than customers choosing the price to which they pay for seeds.
I'm recreational.. I know your smoked some shit over the years... Come on man, 80 strains at $200 for half a packet, I'm missing out on something and shooting myself in the foot, even if I order but your smoked, prolly little Dragon chasing like myself but what have you really misssed out on, whilst you were enjoying getting high or stoned wth what you did have....medicinal, yeah id pay whatever itd take to get better but then shit should be breed to help and not profit from sick. Seemed to be more care and love in this community before it became Legal over there.....Monsanto warnings hopefully keep ringing well into the future...
Edit; just to clarify..I didn't give TS that seed package.. what I wrote kinda reads that way and I don't want to take somebody else's Goodwill.
I know you don't like pheno hunting but you know our cheap priced aren't cheap genetics/hemp ...that mango haze, I picked up for $40.. I'm not sure on whats fairer than customers choosing the price to which they pay for seeds.I'm recreational.. I know your smoked some shit over the years... Come on man, 80 strains at $200 for half a packet, I'm missing out on something and shooting myself in the foot, even if I order
but your smoked, prolly little Dragon chasing like myself but what have you really misssed out on, whilst you were enjoying getting high or stoned wth what you did have....medicinal, yeah id pay whatever itd take to get better but then shit should be breed to help and not profit from sick. Seemed to be more care and love in this community before it became Legal over there.....Monsanto warnings hopefully keep ringing well into the future...Edit; just to clarify..I didn't give TS that seed package.. what I wrote kinda reads that way and I don't want to take somebody else's Goodwill.
Tomster420
Well-Known Member
Mr.Nice seeds have much better genetics than just cheap hemp. Every packet (even SSH) I've bought has been under 30 Euro and I get 15+ seeds. So tell me why should someone take advantage of the general public and get away with it? It doesn't matter how old they are and how sick they are everyone in the world has their own issues but selling 10 seeds for $200 isn't being generous/kind, it's nothing short of highway robbery.
Most people aren't rich or well off so saving money anywhere we can is advantageous no? Why spend $20 per seed (even if you can produce a decent harvest) when you can spend $1.00-6.00 per seed (RSC, TSC and MNS) and produce the same amount for less?
I don't hate Snowhigh seeds nor have I ever said his/her genetics aren't legit. A lot of people other than I have the same view of that the genetics are way over-priced. Everyone is entitled to buy where they want to but I don't want others on here (new members mostly) to find this thread and think that Snowhigh is the "one stop shop to nirvana" when it's not. There are other seedbanks with much cheaper options and very good genetics.
That's all I have left to say about Snowhigh, MNS, RSC and TSC.
Choose your weapon wisely
Most people aren't rich or well off so saving money anywhere we can is advantageous no? Why spend $20 per seed (even if you can produce a decent harvest) when you can spend $1.00-6.00 per seed (RSC, TSC and MNS) and produce the same amount for less?
I don't hate Snowhigh seeds nor have I ever said his/her genetics aren't legit. A lot of people other than I have the same view of that the genetics are way over-priced. Everyone is entitled to buy where they want to but I don't want others on here (new members mostly) to find this thread and think that Snowhigh is the "one stop shop to nirvana" when it's not. There are other seedbanks with much cheaper options and very good genetics.
That's all I have left to say about Snowhigh, MNS, RSC and TSC.
Choose your weapon wisely
Seeds are worth what people are willing to pay for it......no different than any other product out there. Wine/beer is the same way. You won't get me to pay 5 bucks for any bottle of wine....dont care for it. Beer on the other hand I love but I love good beer and don't mind paying for it. I pick up a 4 pack of Gulden Drak for about 25 bucks every couple months. I wouldn't pay 2 bucks for a case of coors or Budweiser.
I see cannabis the same way. Some users have great pallets and sniffers and can really break down the highs and probably appreciate and are willing to pay a little more for what they like (assuming life allows that for them). Other smokers, and we all know them, will smoke just about anything and don't care. Probably couldn't tell you what it smelled like or tastes like. That dude probably is content growing or smoking whatever will get them high.
My biggest issue with seed banks or breeders is having to buy 10 or 12 seeds to try. I don't care about the price per seed. I would pay 20-30 bucks for a seed to try a strain and see if it's something I would want to grow out more and look for a keeper. At least then I am only out 20-30 bucks instead of 200-300 for 10 or 12 seeds. Give me the option of buying different quantities....i don't always want or need 10 seeds.
I see cannabis the same way. Some users have great pallets and sniffers and can really break down the highs and probably appreciate and are willing to pay a little more for what they like (assuming life allows that for them). Other smokers, and we all know them, will smoke just about anything and don't care. Probably couldn't tell you what it smelled like or tastes like. That dude probably is content growing or smoking whatever will get them high.
My biggest issue with seed banks or breeders is having to buy 10 or 12 seeds to try. I don't care about the price per seed. I would pay 20-30 bucks for a seed to try a strain and see if it's something I would want to grow out more and look for a keeper. At least then I am only out 20-30 bucks instead of 200-300 for 10 or 12 seeds. Give me the option of buying different quantities....i don't always want or need 10 seeds.
*cough* coffee *cough*
It's good to see another unabashed capitalist.
As long as the consumer has a choice, let him choose whether that price is reasonable. Apparently, people choose to pay that much. *shrug*
It's good to see another unabashed capitalist.
As long as the consumer has a choice, let him choose whether that price is reasonable. Apparently, people choose to pay that much. *shrug*
I am a unabashed capitalist without a doubt brother. Lack of choice is my complaint.
Do I think seeds are over priced.....yes. But I also think everything is over priced. Doesn't mean I won't still buy it.
Do I think seeds are over priced.....yes. But I also think everything is over priced. Doesn't mean I won't still buy it.
I remember back around 1990 I bought a rose out of a catalog. Was called American Beauty. Was a blue rose. It had a freaking awesome smell.
Only problem the buds wouldn't open until there was a significant drop in atmospheric pressure. Which would mean a big storm system moving thru. So the flowers would open .... then the storms with rain would beat all the petals off the newly open flowers. So we could enjoy them for a day maybe and then we know whats coming. Sadly we left that plant at our home for the new owners to enjoy. All good that soil was great for roses and not so much here where we are now.
I think its the breeders that are making the heirloom and landrace varieties available.
Sam the Skunkman... lets call Shanti baba and Mr Nice and get the party started.
Listen anyone running clones or making seed from a Polyploid cannabis plant is working GMO gear.
Same thing happened with wheat a loooong time ago. Can see the health effects of GMO wheat on a society. Obesity, hearth disease and cancer. Nice... happened all due to higher yields was the motive.
Tradition is a way I'm thinking. Its time for us to start setting proper tradition. So the folks that follow us will have a path they can use and modify and pass it on.
Cannabis: It's all about Passin it On.
[QUOTE="Van Stank, post: 4130486, member: 281647]My biggest issue with seed banks or breeders is having to buy 10 or 12 seeds to try. I don't care about the price per seed. I would pay 20-30 bucks for a seed to try a strain and see if it's something I would want to grow out more and look for a keeper. At least then I am only out 20-30 bucks instead of 200-300 for 10 or 12 seeds. Give me the option of buying different quantities....i don't always want or need 10 seeds.[/QUOTE]
I agree with that... somewhat. But, sometimes it takes more than a seed or two in order to find that special keeper. Occasionally, it can take more than a pack or two. Some of those clone-only strains came from a seed, from a pack, and turned out to be special enough to get noticed in a major way. And then there's the possibility of males (in non-feminized seeds) that could lower the odds a bit more.
Lower quantities have their appeal - obviously, otherwise the "pick & mix" stuff wouldn't sell so well. But there's something to be said for having the chance to grow several of the same strain.
I agree with that... somewhat. But, sometimes it takes more than a seed or two in order to find that special keeper. Occasionally, it can take more than a pack or two. Some of those clone-only strains came from a seed, from a pack, and turned out to be special enough to get noticed in a major way. And then there's the possibility of males (in non-feminized seeds) that could lower the odds a bit more.
Lower quantities have their appeal - obviously, otherwise the "pick & mix" stuff wouldn't sell so well. But there's something to be said for having the chance to grow several of the same strain.
So let's say I want to give one of the hottest strains a go. Never smoked it before but some of you members rave endlessly about it. Well shit man, Stank wants to try it out. Let's check the old interweb........and here we go.....damn, gonna cost me 200-300 bones to even try one. Now imagine in this crazy consumer driven world where I didn't have to buy a 10 pack to try one or two or even 5. Maybe I don't want to drop 300 on something that doesn't agree with me. I would be much happier throwing 30 bucks at one and give it a whirl.
Now imagine I did that with 10 or more strains. Invested roughly the same amount of money but I got to try 10 different strains and now IF there is one or two that stood out, I can go back and pick up a pack or two and really search for something special.
It's all about buying how I want to buy and not how they want to sell it. I am the same way with new beers. I don't mind going into a big beer store and browsing the wild stuff. I don't want to HAVE TO buy a 6 or 12 pack just to see if it tastes as good as they make it out to seem. Let me buy a single and try it. If I like it, I'll be back!
Now imagine I did that with 10 or more strains. Invested roughly the same amount of money but I got to try 10 different strains and now IF there is one or two that stood out, I can go back and pick up a pack or two and really search for something special.
It's all about buying how I want to buy and not how they want to sell it. I am the same way with new beers. I don't mind going into a big beer store and browsing the wild stuff. I don't want to HAVE TO buy a 6 or 12 pack just to see if it tastes as good as they make it out to seem. Let me buy a single and try it. If I like it, I'll be back!
Unfortunately, we cannot post "Who wants to go in on a pack of..." type threads here. But do you know any cannabis growers "in the meat world?" If so, ask some of them if they'd like to split a pack with you. Or, alternatively, you can see if someone you know would consider trading some of their seeds for a few out of the pack if you bought it yourself.
Imperfect solution, I know. For one, not everyone has friends who grow cannabis. Or a person might have such friends, but they're not flush with cash (or seeds). And, since most people end up sharing seeds and/or cuttings with their friends, anyway...
Imperfect solution, I know. For one, not everyone has friends who grow cannabis. Or a person might have such friends, but they're not flush with cash (or seeds). And, since most people end up sharing seeds and/or cuttings with their friends, anyway...
Or breeders could start selling half packs or quarter packs or single seeds? Why not give the customers more options? Oh wait....why should they settle for 50 bucks or 35 bucks when they can fleece us for a couple bills.
We are beating a dead horse to death. Not all of us want to buy full packs of every strain. More options is my complaint. I don't want to have to ask 4 or 5 people if they want to go in on a pack of seeds.
We are beating a dead horse to death. Not all of us want to buy full packs of every strain. More options is my complaint. I don't want to have to ask 4 or 5 people if they want to go in on a pack of seeds.
TheFertilizer
Well-Known Member
What I wonder is, why aren't seeds seen with the same, "You get what you pay for," mentality as everything else is evaluated on in this world? I mean, time and time again if you see one light, or one car, or one *insert conumer item here* compared to the other, and someone prefers the more expensive one, or the cheaper one breaks, they will invariably declare, "You get what you pay for!" as if to imply that paying a premium will always net better results, and avoiding the premium will always invite Murphy's law.
But when it comes to seeds I don't see people have nearly the same confidence in that consumerist law. Take something like Sensi seeds. They've won more cannabis cups than I care to go count, they have basically every classic A-name strain in their seed banks, and yet people scoff at paying the prices they want for them despite the fact that if you turn around and go order one of those same generic strains from another bank at a cheaper price, their results of quality may vary.
So why is it suddenly NOT okay to pay a premium to seed banks with lots of clout and reputability and a premium that implies that consumerist law of better results? People just seem to be far, far more cynical about seeds. I guess that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's just something I've noticed.
Then the other thing about seed shopping that perplexes me... If you order a F1 hybrid from a seedbank, and you get a particular cut that you like and you run it for a while, and go back and order more of those F1 seeds, the chances that you'll get the same particular cut out of 10 seeds is very low. Properly phenohunting a F1 hybrid takes hundreds if not thousands of seeds to sort through. I have a friend working for a recreational farm doing a phenohunt on some strain, and they've thrown away close to 1000 plants and have 1 cut of it so far.
Given that I don't know why so many F1 hybrids sell for so much. I think "F1" has just become marketable for uniqueness and hybrid vigor, and so people are paying more for seeds that they don't have a chance of replicating without running a perpetual cut and that's IF they find the magic cut. It reminds me a lot of gambling.
What is this madness?
But when it comes to seeds I don't see people have nearly the same confidence in that consumerist law. Take something like Sensi seeds. They've won more cannabis cups than I care to go count, they have basically every classic A-name strain in their seed banks, and yet people scoff at paying the prices they want for them despite the fact that if you turn around and go order one of those same generic strains from another bank at a cheaper price, their results of quality may vary.
So why is it suddenly NOT okay to pay a premium to seed banks with lots of clout and reputability and a premium that implies that consumerist law of better results? People just seem to be far, far more cynical about seeds. I guess that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's just something I've noticed.
Then the other thing about seed shopping that perplexes me... If you order a F1 hybrid from a seedbank, and you get a particular cut that you like and you run it for a while, and go back and order more of those F1 seeds, the chances that you'll get the same particular cut out of 10 seeds is very low. Properly phenohunting a F1 hybrid takes hundreds if not thousands of seeds to sort through. I have a friend working for a recreational farm doing a phenohunt on some strain, and they've thrown away close to 1000 plants and have 1 cut of it so far.
Given that I don't know why so many F1 hybrids sell for so much. I think "F1" has just become marketable for uniqueness and hybrid vigor, and so people are paying more for seeds that they don't have a chance of replicating without running a perpetual cut and that's IF they find the magic cut. It reminds me a lot of gambling.
What is this madness?
Ganjagrowergu
Well-Known Member
I love F1s for the variety. I don't (though I should) do clones. I don't have the space.
As far as getting what you pay for... If I could afford the good stuff, pure Landrace stuff, I would buy it. I blindly believe it would be more than worth the money. But my budget limits me so I just go with the flow.
I've recently begun making my own seeds. Seems like this will help me out bunches. Especially once I get focused back on my Red Points. I've been playing around with autos a lot recently. That phase is nearing an end.
As far as getting what you pay for... If I could afford the good stuff, pure Landrace stuff, I would buy it. I blindly believe it would be more than worth the money. But my budget limits me so I just go with the flow.
I've recently begun making my own seeds. Seems like this will help me out bunches. Especially once I get focused back on my Red Points. I've been playing around with autos a lot recently. That phase is nearing an end.
lazyfish
Well-Known Member
I thought F1's were the ones that gave a few phenos that closely resemble their parents? F2 is where sh1t gets crazy,....
Ganjagrowergu
Well-Known Member
My F1s give me tons of phenos is all i know. I'm very new to breeding though. Glad I have the 420 folks around to guide me a bit.
F2s show all the possibilities if u grow out enough plants. F1s don't give much chance to show any of the heterozygous traits. They will only appear if it happens to be the dominant trait.....while when u let the F1s breed, they have the chance to show you all the different recessive genes that are hidden in the F1 generation. Only Homozygous traits and Dominant heterozygous traits are visible in F1s.
Ganjagrowergu
Well-Known Member
So when I inbreed my Red Point crosses, the F1s, i will have even more phenos? That actually sounds like a darn good deal, and I believe I already knew this from research but it apparently didn't sink in.
