LEDBud
Well-Known Member
I added some info to my above post
LED lights
- Thread starter Linkorien
- Start date
wizgrow
New Member
Mars-Hydro LED Grow Light Discussion
Head there or use skype -
I probably go the Skype route for this type of help - quicker but don't expect a response until tomorrow night. If it is a resistor .....very cheap and easy fix. But make sure before you go messing with it
Email: info@mars-hydro.com
Skype:sara-lgledsolutions
Call :0086 28 66259020 GMT+8 Mon to Fri
Good luck!
Head there or use skype -
I probably go the Skype route for this type of help - quicker but don't expect a response until tomorrow night. If it is a resistor .....very cheap and easy fix. But make sure before you go messing with it
Email: info@mars-hydro.com
Skype:sara-lgledsolutions
Call :0086 28 66259020 GMT+8 Mon to Fri
Good luck!
I want to say that I have read that plants actually do react to changing light patterns through the day, and actually have whats called "mid day depression" in which at mid day sun, most plants actually ramp down their amount of photosynthesis quite a bit, and then it ramps back up towards the evening. Even though dimming and automatic sunsets may seem like a "gimmic" I believe that there may actually be some application to them. Its just that we don't understand enough about plants reaction to really use it to an advantage at this time...
Also since most plants lighting intensity should be measured in DLI...this may also have application in a dimming/automatic light schedule. Lets say your plants are in veg and only need 300umol of light at 18/6 schedule, but your lights are actually putting out 600umol. A auto dimming light might be advantageous to save on electricity and promote better growth when full intensity isn't needed and to help prevent light saturation...
I agree with you that it does seem sort of like a gimic, but I have found conclusive research that leads me to believe there can be application, but not enough evidence to say whether it is a plus or not..
LEDBud
Well-Known Member
The people who grow 1 lbs plants without dimmers and sunsets are prime examples of why the dimming lights and sunset theory is bull ding.
I can appreciate the dimming feature being useful to reduce output when its not needed like when the plants are young and small.
The analogy you gave that reducing output for a few hours to balance the daylight is grasping at straws at best. Not many people will be using the lights like that , I think you know that by the sounds of it , smoke and mirrors is what I see.
I am a hard sell indeed , since you were sponsored by platinum you may feel a certain gratitude or debt to them , I do believe that and to be honest I would promote them if they gave me 4 panels.
Mars does not have to give me anything to promote them , its no wonder why, I sure won't promote platinum for nothing.
I will reference back to all the growers who have grown massive prime plants for 30 years without the sunset or dimming features as my proof the sunset feature is a scam and is as useless as a mini skirt on a pet rock.
I can't let this one go unchallenged its obviously a gimmick.
looks like Mars and Platinum can't get along with each other , lol , battle of the light brands.
I put my money on a few Mars lights , I also bet they are winning the battle of the sales numbers because they are priced fairly and well built.
I can appreciate the dimming feature being useful to reduce output when its not needed like when the plants are young and small.
The analogy you gave that reducing output for a few hours to balance the daylight is grasping at straws at best. Not many people will be using the lights like that , I think you know that by the sounds of it , smoke and mirrors is what I see.
I am a hard sell indeed , since you were sponsored by platinum you may feel a certain gratitude or debt to them , I do believe that and to be honest I would promote them if they gave me 4 panels.
Mars does not have to give me anything to promote them , its no wonder why, I sure won't promote platinum for nothing.
I will reference back to all the growers who have grown massive prime plants for 30 years without the sunset or dimming features as my proof the sunset feature is a scam and is as useless as a mini skirt on a pet rock.
I can't let this one go unchallenged its obviously a gimmick.
looks like Mars and Platinum can't get along with each other , lol , battle of the light brands.
I put my money on a few Mars lights , I also bet they are winning the battle of the sales numbers because they are priced fairly and well built.
Yeah, Icemud doesn't have a P'LED that I know of. He's a pretty skilled grower with deep knowledge of lighting needs, from HIDs, including a lot of research and testing of CMH, to several different LED companies and setups. He was one of the first to test Intelligent-Gro panels, so he's actually grown with the schedule, like I have, and so we know what we're talking about. :
:
And I'm unaware of any particular contest between Mars-Hydro and PlatinumLED. P'LED is just the new kid on the block and is being tested by several top growers who are VERY happy with them.
Don' be so cynical.
You're right and you're wrong.
:And I'm unaware of any particular contest between Mars-Hydro and PlatinumLED. P'LED is just the new kid on the block and is being tested by several top growers who are VERY happy with them.
Don' be so cynical.
You're right and you're wrong.
LEDBud
Well-Known Member
I did confuse platinum with Advanced but the sunset feature and dimming as described is still a marketing ploy.
I did see he had his doubts about the validity of it himself , in his last post above the last three posts. Which looks good on him.
Its bait for people who do not know any better. I am a cynic for good reason , I am sorry for being so zealous about it IceMud
I tend to get carried away ! lol , always have..
I did see he had his doubts about the validity of it himself , in his last post above the last three posts. Which looks good on him.
Its bait for people who do not know any better. I am a cynic for good reason , I am sorry for being so zealous about it IceMud
I tend to get carried away ! lol , always have..I have Advanced LED's XTE series (the 300's) and I absolutely love them. They do cost more, but also use premium LED chips that last longer and put out more light per watt (better efficiency) and also have extremely high PPFD readings. I think anyone that went with Advanced LED would be very pleased in there decision. They are very well built, cool running and extremely bright. I also love how you can control the spectrum and intensity with 2 dials instead of just on/off like other lights..
Feel free to visit my last 2 journals to see the Advanced LED XTE 300's in action.
Here is a comparison of Advanced Vs Mars II of equal wattage. You can judge for yourself which is better.
I am not sponsored by Platinum... I use Advanced LED XTE panels with Osram and Cree chips... and graytail is right... I have tested numerous lights and studied plant lighting extensively. I'm not here to lie to the community that helped me learn how to grow. I tell it like it is... and I think dimming has application.
I personally like dimming for these reasons:
When foliar feeding to prevent any light burn.
When going away on extended business trips, I dim the panels to slow photosynthesis and therefore slow down water uptake. It usually buys me an extra 2-3 days before needing to water so my plants don't wither and die.
I use it to control heat in the tent during hot summer days.
I use dimming when the plants are young and in veg to reduce electricity use and promote better photosynthesis rates. By blasting vegging plants with too much intensity, you aren't speeding up photosynthesis but actually making the rate decrease due to light saturation and photo inhibition unless heavy co2 is added.
Now about dimmable/spectrum changing I definitely believe it has application. Just google "photomorphogenesis" and you will see why.
What I am curious about is using dimming intensity to help reduce mid day depression. Plants have the highest photosynthesis rate in the morning hours, followed by a mid day depression/dip in photosynthesis rate, and then raise back up to around 80% before tapering off with the sunset... This is effected by light, specifically uv light but also by intensity. Therefore I think as the science community learns more we will be able to use this to our advantage.
I believe that since we know these things are facts, we can use a dimming schedule to perhaps get the most out of the day by treating light like a music equalizer... intensity at certain points to even out the peaks and lows... Now this part is speculation, but not skepticism based on science that I have already read I think its possible.
Just because somebody does something for 30 years doesn't make it right, and just because something is innovative beyond our current comprehension doesn't make it a moot point... it give people like us purpose to step outside the box and try new things. for thousands of years people believed the earth was flat and it only took a few new ideas and some proof to show a whole new view of things. I know some people are cynical but try to also be open minded and courteous to those who actually may know more on the subject than others.
I don't have to chime in with my knowledge and help others expand their thinking, but I do think I make valid points based on 4 years of heavy research on plant lighting, as well as trying 3 different brands, 6 different models, as well as HPS, MH and CMH.
I've used Mars II, reflectors, Intelligent gro (2 different models and spectrums) and also 2 different Advanced LED lights... so far the Advanced LED lights are much better than the others for many reason.. All of the lights above will grow bud, and may be better for growers under certain circumstances. I've had success with all of them, but so far the Advanced LED's are the best build, use premium LED chips, run cooler and have provided the best Gram/watt as well as provide the highest Par readings that I personally have taken with my apogee mq200 par meter. So for those reasons I like them, as the others sit unused collecting dust.
I personally like dimming for these reasons:
When foliar feeding to prevent any light burn.
When going away on extended business trips, I dim the panels to slow photosynthesis and therefore slow down water uptake. It usually buys me an extra 2-3 days before needing to water so my plants don't wither and die.
I use it to control heat in the tent during hot summer days.
I use dimming when the plants are young and in veg to reduce electricity use and promote better photosynthesis rates. By blasting vegging plants with too much intensity, you aren't speeding up photosynthesis but actually making the rate decrease due to light saturation and photo inhibition unless heavy co2 is added.
Now about dimmable/spectrum changing I definitely believe it has application. Just google "photomorphogenesis" and you will see why.
What I am curious about is using dimming intensity to help reduce mid day depression. Plants have the highest photosynthesis rate in the morning hours, followed by a mid day depression/dip in photosynthesis rate, and then raise back up to around 80% before tapering off with the sunset... This is effected by light, specifically uv light but also by intensity. Therefore I think as the science community learns more we will be able to use this to our advantage.
I believe that since we know these things are facts, we can use a dimming schedule to perhaps get the most out of the day by treating light like a music equalizer... intensity at certain points to even out the peaks and lows... Now this part is speculation, but not skepticism based on science that I have already read I think its possible.
Just because somebody does something for 30 years doesn't make it right, and just because something is innovative beyond our current comprehension doesn't make it a moot point... it give people like us purpose to step outside the box and try new things. for thousands of years people believed the earth was flat and it only took a few new ideas and some proof to show a whole new view of things. I know some people are cynical but try to also be open minded and courteous to those who actually may know more on the subject than others.
I don't have to chime in with my knowledge and help others expand their thinking, but I do think I make valid points based on 4 years of heavy research on plant lighting, as well as trying 3 different brands, 6 different models, as well as HPS, MH and CMH.
I've used Mars II, reflectors, Intelligent gro (2 different models and spectrums) and also 2 different Advanced LED lights... so far the Advanced LED lights are much better than the others for many reason.. All of the lights above will grow bud, and may be better for growers under certain circumstances. I've had success with all of them, but so far the Advanced LED's are the best build, use premium LED chips, run cooler and have provided the best Gram/watt as well as provide the highest Par readings that I personally have taken with my apogee mq200 par meter. So for those reasons I like them, as the others sit unused collecting dust.
wizgrow
New Member
MUCH respect Icemud.......Thanks.
I'd like to ask one clarification: When you reference AdvancedLED are you speaking exclusively about the XTE line?
I'd like to ask one clarification: When you reference AdvancedLED are you speaking exclusively about the XTE line?
In regards to the dimming yes, but it also applies to the intelligent gro's I used. As far as when I said advanced LED is the best so far I have used, both the EX-VEG (all blue) and the XTE are amazing, and I cant see a reason to want to replace them with anything else.
It's a protection diode that protects the circuit from the reverse flow of voltage and current.
What is a Protection Diode?
LEDBud
Well-Known Member
Mid day depression , sunrise sunset is a theory that has no application to indoor growing , indoor growing is done to give the plants the best conditions not the dimmest.
The bright midday sun is what indoor growing is replicating , reducing it will only reduce growth as Light = energy = growth , reduce the energy and you reduce the growth.
Its a gimmick feature IceMud its obvious.
In reality the dimming feature is only good for dimming the lights when the plants are young tiny and weak.
To use them as a holiday low light level feature would cause reduced growth.
A simple drip irrigation system to tend the plants would be MUCH more effective then reducing lumen output , withholding water and slowing the growth.
If you want to slow the growth then dimming is a effective way to accomplish it.
Plants want a sunny day every day not sun rises and sunsets and dimming on holidays.
I have yet to see one plant that was grown better using those features then the scats of plants grown exceptional well without it. Which is proof its a gimmick feature and has no real benefit to the plant.
There will never be proof the gimmick works because it doesn't work and cannot work, if anything it stunts the growth which is a accurate description.
Its there only to attract trusting people , new growers or gullible people in general.
I am none of the above so its easy for me to spot its marketing ploy , in reality it lowers the lumen output. With a non dimming panel you can raise the light for the same dimming effect when used with young seedlings / plants
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
I do like the watt savings by being able to dim the panel with young tender plants rather then just raising the light.
As far as I can see the watt savings by using the dimmer when starting young plants is the only useful feature with the dimmer circuit.
For all other uses the dimmer will reduce growth and probably reduce trichome production at the same time.
I have nothing to lose or gain by pointing this out , I feel its best to speak about its real application and not the unfounded ones suggested by the Marketers.
I am not a biologist but I have a sneaking suspicion a biologist would be as skeptical as I am about sunsets and sunrises being effective at increasing the production or quality of cannabis.
I will say it is a nice premise to give the plants such care in their waking hour not that it will do any good , for our tender eyes it is pleasant way to wake indeed.
I guess it comes down to each to his own.
The bright midday sun is what indoor growing is replicating , reducing it will only reduce growth as Light = energy = growth , reduce the energy and you reduce the growth.
Its a gimmick feature IceMud its obvious.
In reality the dimming feature is only good for dimming the lights when the plants are young tiny and weak.
To use them as a holiday low light level feature would cause reduced growth.
A simple drip irrigation system to tend the plants would be MUCH more effective then reducing lumen output , withholding water and slowing the growth.
If you want to slow the growth then dimming is a effective way to accomplish it.
Plants want a sunny day every day not sun rises and sunsets and dimming on holidays.
I have yet to see one plant that was grown better using those features then the scats of plants grown exceptional well without it. Which is proof its a gimmick feature and has no real benefit to the plant.
There will never be proof the gimmick works because it doesn't work and cannot work, if anything it stunts the growth which is a accurate description.
Its there only to attract trusting people , new growers or gullible people in general.
I am none of the above so its easy for me to spot its marketing ploy , in reality it lowers the lumen output. With a non dimming panel you can raise the light for the same dimming effect when used with young seedlings / plants
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
I do like the watt savings by being able to dim the panel with young tender plants rather then just raising the light.
As far as I can see the watt savings by using the dimmer when starting young plants is the only useful feature with the dimmer circuit.
For all other uses the dimmer will reduce growth and probably reduce trichome production at the same time.
I have nothing to lose or gain by pointing this out , I feel its best to speak about its real application and not the unfounded ones suggested by the Marketers.
I am not a biologist but I have a sneaking suspicion a biologist would be as skeptical as I am about sunsets and sunrises being effective at increasing the production or quality of cannabis.
I will say it is a nice premise to give the plants such care in their waking hour not that it will do any good , for our tender eyes it is pleasant way to wake indeed.
I guess it comes down to each to his own.
It's a protection diode that protects the circuit from the reverse flow of voltage and current.
What is a Protection Diode?
Thanks dude!!
wizgrow
New Member
I see.........
I am not familiar with their new lines that now separates them from Eshine (IMO) but the OSRAMS and CREE are sure to make a positive impact from everything I have read. I would love to see you do a side by side grow with a XTE and a new equivalent Budmaster
Right now I can not justify a purchase deep into either of those areas until I get more experience growing - keeping that real.....
My friend has an XML 350 though.....which I purchased and had shipped down here for him. I was always impressed with their customer service. it works very nice in his 3x3 but I never though of it since it does not fit the foot print of any of my setups.
I have a DS200 though..... again - solid light. But.... hehehe always a but
I think i like the overall footprint coverage of the reflector 96x3w works as well and fits my needs better. So even if they ran the same price I would probably get the reflector. Unless the DS lineup has made major changes in the last 6 months. On the site they now say this for the DS series since the Eshine fallout:
NEW - Massive New 3w Single Chip LEDs - Wow...... Massive huh? For whom does this type of marketing work?
If they straight up told me:
"we upgraded our old LEDs xxxxxx and 650ma driver to XXXXX LED driven at 700ma - re-designed XXXX to compensate for heat ............." I might take them serious.
I can only speak from myself but the LED lighting companies seem to think they make some "secret recipe" which for one seems impossible now with us all paying attention and two they apparently do not even have any type of "Non-disclosure agreements" in place with the manufactures. But Bla bla bla and some crappy ass marketing is plentiful. This is NOT Exclusive to ADVANCEDLED in any way....... again, from my experience and from what I have read they at least have top notch customer service and warranties.
Just my opinion......... "to date" - I leave room to change my mind after more experimenting
Another question for you - after a lot of reading I like the fact the Reflectors have no lenses - I grow strictly SCROG - your thoughts on lenses?
AGAIN THANKS - your posts always add a lot "value"
wizgrow
New Member
I have read and seen "empirical evidence" that both GLR and DLS work and have value ....... so other theories may also work. Let us Lab Rats find out
LEDBud
Well-Known Member
The Dimmer is handy and Its harmless enough , the sunrise sunset could have a use I am unaware of , its my opinion peoples conjecture same as the manufactures declaration.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
- Commercial in the year 2020 -
From the moment you wake till the moment you go to sleep Sunrise and Sunset brand weed has you covered.
Grown exclusively with auto dimming technology using methods pioneered on the 420 website
comes with a full Guarantee that no Lab Rats were harmed in its development
*Warning do not mix up bags*
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
- Commercial in the year 2020 -
From the moment you wake till the moment you go to sleep Sunrise and Sunset brand weed has you covered.
Grown exclusively with auto dimming technology using methods pioneered on the 420 website
comes with a full Guarantee that no Lab Rats were harmed in its development
*Warning do not mix up bags*
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
VonDankenhoek
New Member
"I want to say that I have read that plants actually do react to changing light patterns through the day, and actually have whats called "mid day depression" in which at mid day sun, most plants actually ramp down their amount of photosynthesis quite a bit, and then it ramps back up towards the evening."
Since dips in photodynthetic activity are a known fact do any of the LED mfgs talk about it or engineer something to optimize that information?
I understood the dip to be sort of like fatigue, there is a shortage of rubisco resulting in decreased photosynthesis.
Since there is a natural dip in rate of photosynthesis it seems like when our light cycle consists of 12-18 hours of full on, high noon light we are not making the most of what we understand about the plants' metabolism.
Since dips in photodynthetic activity are a known fact do any of the LED mfgs talk about it or engineer something to optimize that information?
I understood the dip to be sort of like fatigue, there is a shortage of rubisco resulting in decreased photosynthesis.
Since there is a natural dip in rate of photosynthesis it seems like when our light cycle consists of 12-18 hours of full on, high noon light we are not making the most of what we understand about the plants' metabolism.
VonDankenhoek
New Member
double post
LEDBud
Well-Known Member
After more thought I can say the following with confidence -
If it makes growing more interesting or fun for people I concede it has its place already.
Anything to spark interest in growing your own is not so bad and if it sparks the imagination it can only brighten a dull day.
If it makes growing more interesting or fun for people I concede it has its place already.
Anything to spark interest in growing your own is not so bad and if it sparks the imagination it can only brighten a dull day.
Last weekend, i was about to buy an Advanced Led (Diamond Series XML - 10W CREE XML), stupid me didn't call first but the store was having an anniversary sale, so i figured i'd go anyway. Come to find out the store owner said "We carry them but i might recommend you get something else, currently they are having some serious quality issues. We've had to do 8 returns for the last 10 sold. I couldn't be bothered with the hassles dealing with the returns and to boot Adv. LED's customer service is annoying at best, and simply a pain to deal with..." To be honest he won my trust, a store owner turning down a sell and losing business... He started pointing me toward a Kind LED instead but, it might be me, I would prefer a square vs a rectangle, just suits my area better...
LEDBud
Well-Known Member
Well that's no fun , Must of been a novice assembly line worker or a bad batch of parts, that would of been a disappointing purchase.
The store owner was decent and refunded his customers himself , which looks good on him. I guess he will get some replacement panels from Advanced and resell them.
What model did you end up getting and for how much ?
square or rectangle is a personal choice but I can see the square having more even light distribution then the rectangle.
Although my panels are rectangle they fit in well in my small 2x4 rectangular grow area.
The store owner was decent and refunded his customers himself , which looks good on him. I guess he will get some replacement panels from Advanced and resell them.
What model did you end up getting and for how much ?
square or rectangle is a personal choice but I can see the square having more even light distribution then the rectangle.
Although my panels are rectangle they fit in well in my small 2x4 rectangular grow area.
