Nivana's Chrystal 11 Weeks Into Veg - Advice Welcome!

YAY!!!! 3 was always closest to what I was expecting to see. If you stop stunting them they will come back with a vengeance!


Yes perpetual is best to keep running the same strains. You can do more than one in fact perpetual makes it easier to do more than one but you want to keep doing it or the calendar gets all messed up. But perpetual done right takes some restraint and following of rules and being responsible. I am going to explain something that takes a lot of self control below. If you don't follow it then you will blow up you grow and have a mess on your hands.

So lets start with the idea of one strain...So the deal with perpetual is you want to think of it backwards. You want to think about what I was saying.....question #1: Do you want to harvest once a week and how many? Maybe you want to harvest daily?

Just as an example...

I want to harvest 2 plants a week because 2 full sized plants takes about 6 hours to clip partial trim and wash and dry. (maybe you are faster than me). That means that every Friday night you take 4-6 clones (if you are wanting to harevst daily 2 plants then daily you take 4-6 clones...please do not start your perpetual this way). You are only going to use the 2 best and toss the rest or give them to your closest friends. It isn't so much about extras for failure. Cloning is easy and they always work. But for many reasons some will rebound faster than others. So we don't pick that fastest ones or the biggest ones or the best looking ones. When it is time to select 2 we take the 2 that are most similar in rebound state. 2 that if I put them in soil then in a week they will be identical. Some times I would even do a 2 pot method and place them in a first pot of about 2 gallons after they sprout in the peat plug. Then I make the selection form the 6 after full potted rebound to get the best consistency. Yo can grow a month in there and have very consistent plants. you can even trim and train a little in that month to get near identical plants.

So there isn't much more to it than that. You really focus on starting them in the process in order to get them out in a reasonably even way. Once you have it dialed in and you know it isn't 12 weeks to harvest and you know this strain is 12.5 weeks then you could switch clone day to Wednesday.

If you are running a good soil blend then there isn't much to do than add water. So it doesn't hurt to just run those 6 up to flower if you have the space and then chop down the ones that are worse off. That is generally good practice until you got yer shit together. What if you stunt one...well you got 4 backups. It gets real hard though to chop down a plant that is late in bloom. The farther you go the more you will be likely to keep it and break your back.

There are 2 things to consider beyond that which are just kind of obvious but I will point them out.

1) The veg time is fully dependent on the method of growing. Growing in a scrog increases the veg time about 2-4 weeks depending on what you are doing and how good you are. So that means at 4 weeks extra, times 6 plants a week you have 24 more plants if you wait until the bloom flip to cut the stragglers. A good reason to cut the stragglers after the first month in a real pot.

2) you want to size the grow space to accommodate the number of plants in the grow (which you can't do until you know how long it takes to bloom the plants). So lets assume you have a strain nailed and know for the method you do you grow them for 10 weeks in veg and 9 in bloom. Then we need a bloom space large enough to handle 18 big to large plants a.d a veg space able top accommodate 36 plants in various sizes from small to medium in possibly 2 sized pots (24 unselected clones + 12 selected clones). I never counted but I was well over 40 at one point. Since you are constantly chopping down some and cloning more it is a fuzzy number.


So you need to think about your method but I recommend tossing SCROG out the window for perpetual for many reasons. Most obvious is transitioning the plant from one grow chamber to the next. It is much better to have each plant in their own bucket (hydro or soil). It is much better to have a small individual scrog or to do supper cropping and LST. I like LST with Lollipoping myself. LST with Lollipoping will also ad like 2 weeks to veg. Lollipoping is where you get your clones from by the way.

So lets take a step back. To do this right...

#1 Nail how to grow the plant using your preferred method. Then you know it takes 9.5 weeks or something like that.
#2 Then do the math to figure out when to start cloning.
#3 Build the appropriate grow space.

That is the right way to do it. And in step one you can run 10 at a time or whatever to fine tune things and try different methods.


Now what many people do is set up a grow space and try to fill it and end up with a mess on their hands. I am not going to explain all the things you can do wrong.

Now maybe you want to harvest once a month so all that math changes a bit. But think about this. your bloom space can hold probably max 8 plants in in the various bloom states. If your bloom is 8 weeks long you could pull one plant a week, 2 plants every 2 weeks, 4 plants every 4 weeks or just run them all together at 8 weeks but they are much more cramped. By doing one a week the fullest one is competing with much smaller ones allowing for more optimized utilization of the space. If they are all running at the same age then they will max out the space. If they are staggered the biggest ones have more space.


So simple right? :rofl:

The key is having the maturity to kill good plants to maintain your production rate without going insane.


Oh yeah and so running more than one strain is fine. You don't have to do it for the second one. You just start one from seed and run it and take clones and don't worry about the mother. Then run those clones right next to the ones you have dialed in and take notes. At the time to take the ones over to the bloom then you note were these new ones faster or slower. then bloom it with then and take notes. After about 2 full cycles you should be able to tune those in and take the clones at the right time.


What I am saying is the first one is hard. once that is dialed adding more is a snap.

:thumb:
 
you gave me a lot to read there and think about...i'd like to do a perpetual grow mostly to learn...but i think i'd like to start slow...like one plant a month...lol...!

so today i put a few gallons of water ph'd to 6.2 through #4 & #5 and i think you may be onto something with the ph being too high in the soil because the runoff for #4 was at 6.9 and the runoff to #5 was at 7.3.

so i'm thinking that in a few days i'll brew some tea and when they next need water (as individuals), they will get tea, right?

here are the pictures...and #3 is recovering...though she is looking a little shaggy...lol...poor thing...

and i was wondering how long you bubble a 5 gallon bucket to evaporate the chlorine?

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i think #4 shows real potential!

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A 5 gallon bucket will evaporate on its own in 24 hours...with a bubbler it depends on the pump and stones but in probably 2 hours you are good.

I just fill up my buckets right after use and they are ready when I need them.


So your last post with notes said you gave them tea last. But also it looks like your problem isn't a lack of nutes rather pH.

So I would run a moderate pH flush through. For each plant (which should all be on their own watering schedule) you run an entire 5 gallon bucket of 6.23 and make sure all the run off goes away. Put those pots on top of some 2x4 scraps or something so they are off the ground and make sure all the water goes out the bottom. Leave them aloft for a few days to let all the water out.


Wait until they are dry and individually bring them back. Once they are healthy again they will take off and you can at that time consider what it takes to get them back on a schedule together.


You have probably lockout amongst other things. Bad enough can kill the microbes. So the tea wont work right until you get that under control.
 
good morning, V!

yah, i was thinking the same thing last night while waiting to fall asleep...(this stuff does tend to become obsessive)...anyway, what i was thinking was that if the soil is, indeed, too high ph and locking out nutrients, then the best thing to do would be to run 6.2 ph's water through the pots...each on their own schedule...so glad you agree with me! :thumb: only i'll do it at 6.3, like you suggest. :)

actually, i'm just kidding a little bit...:thanks:

so...#2 and #3 should be needing that flush next...since they were watered sunday...they'll probably need it again in a few days...and each one will get the whole 5 gallons and i'll make sure they drain well.

edit: oh yeah and just curious...what method do you use to clone? and have you cloned from a flowering plant?
 
I have failed at cloning flowering plants. But I haven't tried recently with how I do it now. I used to use a method that was a little cheaper but didn't always work. I have given up and do it the guaranteed way.

Now I take a good stem with not less than 3 nodes. Usually more as I will trim back the last one. You can look all this up on Youtube but I do the clean up and cutting process you may find out there. basically scratch the surface and cut the stem in half. The dip in rooting hormone powder (make sure to always close the lid when done or that goes dead). Then into a peat plug and into the dome for about 2 weeks then roots are everywhere and you can place the plug in a solo cup with dead and empty used soil. After it takes hold you can tea it.

Savvy?
 
hey V! a couple of days ago, i filled two 5-gallon buckets to de-chlorinate them in preparation for flushing #2 and #3. i think they'll be ready sunday or monday.

today, i thought i would get their ph in line with 6.3. i've never tried to ph a whole 5 gallons at once, before. it's been kind of frustrating! one bucket started out at 8.1. after adding 4 cups of vinegar (i started with tablespoons and then went to cups as the ph refused to budge) i've got the ph down to 6.7. i had to walk away, hoping that after awhile maybe it would adjust down some more.

the other bucket was at 7.6 and after 3 cups of vinegar, it is also hovering around 6.7.

is this your experience in getting your ph down? i never expected it would take so much vinegar, though i realize it is 5 gallons...just seems like a lot!

p.s., oh yeah, and i took 14 cuttings off the flowering clones last week...so we'll see how they do!
 
so i just went back up there to check on the status of the ph in the two buckets and they had crept back up to 7.0! drats and what's up with that?

just had a thought...have you ever used rain water...or do you know anything about the pros and cons of using rain water? we live in the land of rain...i have 4 50 gallon barrels...hmmmm
 
Naw I don't use rain water and heard some bad things from it. If you have a good water collection system then you should be fine but you don't want stuff getting into it from outside.

You want to cover the buckets you fill ahead of time with some fabric or something that will let the chlorine out and keep stuff out. Rain water itself is not bad. It is the collection and storage method used that may not be sterile.



7.0 is neutral. Not sure I understand the questions about "they crept up". I don't pH until I am going to use them. I fill the bucket and cover it and in a few days when I want to use it I do what I need to do...add stuff whatever...
 
7.0 is neutral. Not sure I understand the questions about "they crept up". I don't pH until I am going to use them. I fill the bucket and cover it and in a few days when I want to use it I do what I need to do...add stuff whatever...

ok, that's what i needed to know. thanks!
 
hey V! it's been quiet around here...the 4 plants are doing fine...i've been waiting for them to show signs of being thirsty...i have 2 five gallon buckets of water waiting on them to need/want it and the 2x4's to keep them up and out of the drainage!

#2 & #3 got water on the 17th and #4 & #5 got water on the 18th...so i'm thinking i'll flush the 2 lightest tomorrow and do the other 2 on the next day or the day after that...depending on their appearance. i really like the way #4 is filling out down below...i'll take pictures tomorrow when i flush them.

and i have been very diligent about keeping the humidity above 50%!

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LOL

I honestly do love this journal.

Nice to see they are finally doing what I told you would happen with a little patience and care ;)

Ya know I say this to people all the time and they get frustrated...but you can't learn this from a book or in a few grows. It takes years to get good. Sure you can get a good grow by following recipes and what not. But that doesn't mean you know this stuff. I have a pile of new equipment and screwed up using it on this grow and have a few issues myself. Everyone makes mistakes...plus I am a hobbyist these days. I have a regular job and I put in sometimes brutal hours so I can't take care of them like I should. The difference is I know I scred up. I am gonna get a pound off my current plant and I did a ton of bad things to it and stunted it mid bloom and still I will get some sweet weed.

People are giving me props on here all the time and I feel like I am just spewing well known basic common knowledge. So that just goes to show how too many people jump in way too fast. The worst is if you are successful right away and then you know that you know everything LOL.

You gots ta be careful on here too. There is this guy trolling around here right now giving very poor advice. I think he is a cop trying to get people to kill their plants. You don't do hydro but maybe you will get this. There is this thread where this guy has babies without even the first full fan leaf so they need no nutes. This guy recommended they use 1500 PPM nute solution to fix a typical seedling issue that was no big deal and not uncommon. That will kill the plant. Most people would never use solution that high at any point in the grow. It is totally unnecessary. And even if you are good enough to get to that high a PPM properly you don't need it. Luckily the poster was smarter than that and stuck with my advice.
 
LOL

I honestly do love this journal.

i'm sure glad...because i honestly do love your help and all the information you download on a regular basis! :)


Ya know I say this to people all the time and they get frustrated...but you can't learn this from a book or in a few grows. It takes years to get good. Sure you can get a good grow by following recipes and what not. But that doesn't mean you know this stuff. I have a pile of new equipment and screwed up using it on this grow and have a few issues myself. Everyone makes mistakes...plus I am a hobbyist these days. I have a regular job and I put in sometimes brutal hours so I can't take care of them like I should. The difference is I know I scred up. I am gonna get a pound off my current plant and I did a ton of bad things to it and stunted it mid bloom and still I will get some sweet weed.

are you growing hydro? i would love to hear what happened and how you are fixing it...are you just growing one plant? you must be scrogging it big time? i'm going to get good at this. it's what i want to do. not interested in shortcuts. i want to know it inside and out...which reminds me...wish i could grow outside, but i live in town and it's not sensible...

People are giving me props on here all the time and I feel like I am just spewing well known basic common knowledge. So that just goes to show how too many people jump in way too fast. The worst is if you are successful right away and then you know that you know everything LOL.

lmao...i don't have to worry about that...i've had enough failures so there's no danger of me thinking i know anything! lol...journaling, for a newbie like me, is so very helpful...i've been walking into walls for 2 years and couldn't find a door!

You gots ta be careful on here too. There is this guy trolling around here right now giving very poor advice. I think he is a cop trying to get people to kill their plants. You don't do hydro but maybe you will get this. There is this thread where this guy has babies without even the first full fan leaf so they need no nutes. This guy recommended they use 1500 PPM nute solution to fix a typical seedling issue that was no big deal and not uncommon. That will kill the plant. Most people would never use solution that high at any point in the grow. It is totally unnecessary. And even if you are good enough to get to that high a PPM properly you don't need it. Luckily the poster was smarter than that and stuck with my advice.

i understand the problem there...they're like babies...can't eat grown-up food yet...

which brings up another question...at what ppm or ec do you feed your flowering plants? and can you depend on that reading (the ed or ppm) to tell you if you are feeding them enough or too much?

so with the tea, for example, if the tea is at a ppm of 800 and that is a high enough ppm so that you know there is enough nutrition there for the plants, would you figure that the tea was enough food? i don't know if i'm asking this very well...but do you know what i mean?

i'm going upstairs now, to spend some quality time with the girls...will have pictures later.:thumb:
 
oh yeah, and i was gonna tell you that my new ph meter wigged out on me so i sent it back and went to the local grow store and got a one from them. i suspect amazon sent me a used one or one that had been on the shelf for a long time...as the batteries were dead when it arrived.

for some reason, it started reading the 7 ph solution as a solid 10, and would error out when i tried to manually adjust it. fortunately, i was in the window to return it for a full refund. :)
 
I am not experienced in the matter but it seems like the reason you couldn't use only tea at 800ppm. is the same reason you shouldn't use only cal mag. it's not a balanced diet just a suplement for what ever they don't get out of their normal diet. this is just what I notices seeing how I use mills and it is a A B part with boosters. if it's the same all arround I don't know.
 
hi AK and thank you for your post...what you say makes perfect sense...they do need a balanced diet!

our bakery says that a balanced diet is a cookie in each hand...lol...i guess our plants would never understand...:)
 
I have to stick around and see how this goes. I have an entire tent of plants that i have been experimenting on and they are all in different stages of disrepair. I can't wait to try some of the suggestions I have read in this journal. Thank you for keeping it.
It's all about learning what not to do. lol
 
I do both Hydro and soil. My last grow was hydro...my current one is soil.

I am going to spend a year or sop dialing in a new type of soil growing. I do want to do another Hydro run soon though. I just need to build a new system because I want to try something different. As a personal home grower the only reason to do hydro is for the kicks of trying things. I mean Hydro is great because it is precise and easy not to burn things but at the same time there are many more difficulties and it is fairly labor intensive. Mixing up and topping of 5 gallons of nute solution each day and staying on top of it is something you can do if you have to be away from home for a few days.

So I go back and forth. But Hydro for me is for fun and also to test myself so I can feel like I know what I am doing. I feel like until you have grown both successfully you have a lot to learn.

Did I post a pic here for you of my current grow? I started with 4 freebies unknowns. 2 were male so I recomposed the soil. Of the 2 left one was a bugger from the get go...slow to pop out of soil, auto-topped itself immediately, never caught up. Always had issues no matter what I did. I flushed it and did everything and it just was a disaster. In veg I almost got it healthy. as soon as I flipped th lights she freaked out and went south on me again. I have space so I haven't killed it but it wont be worth squat.

The other one looked like this mid December (36" x 28") (both of the first two pics are a day or so before watering where I am letting it dry out...that is why the leaves are dropping)

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then around the new year...

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then third week of bloom
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Then about 5th week (so maybe a week or so back)
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And I stunted it bad with my new light...got too hot...hermied...I cleaned out all male parts after fixing the problem and she came right back. No seeds yet. Now it is exploding again.

Again a little bit of care and understanding and patience and I didn't freak when I saw male parts and new why and fixed it and bam everything is fine.


That plant has had almost no nutes. Basically just a good soil and my tea. I have done a little here and there when I am concerned but I really should have left it as my tea has all the macro and micro nutes plus more.

Basically the only thing I am adding other than my tea is Cal Mag and Silica.

Works for me. But I am changing over to a fully organic grow next that by the book needs nothing but water. Never done it before so my next grow should be fun!!!
 
I have to stick around and see how this goes. I have an entire tent of plants that i have been experimenting on and they are all in different stages of disrepair. I can't wait to try some of the suggestions I have read in this journal. Thank you for keeping it.
It's all about learning what not to do. lol

welcome danky! and you are quite right! this has, and continues to be, a real good experience in learning what not to do~! lol...i'm just so happy to be here and glad to know that you find it useful. V does this thing where he just starts typing and all this wonderful information just pours out...paragraphs at a time...very helpful!
 
So lights came on so I took updated pics for ya. this is an unknown freebie strain I got with my order from Nirvana and it is starting to show real cool purplish colors on the lower flowers. Hard to tell under the HPS but I go the cool shades that tint it right and they look cool...

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Don't know how well this shows it but they gots lots a trics!!!

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and this one is all purple

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Just some eye candy :)
 
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