SOGgy Daze Ahead For Mr. Krip!

[ilikebike]

haha krip your last post made me laugh

I noticed in a differnt thread you said you were getting the black star 300 thats from gotham products correct? Do you intend on vegging and flowering with it or just flower? Please let me know how it works out for you ive been on the fence about buying LED since i herd about them but it seems like you have to buy like 2 or 3 $3000 dollar diamond LED's to get any real benefit from them

 

[OldMedMan]

Thanks, Bro!

I think it would be great for you to start maintaining some mothers!

If you think about it, with your space and all of the seeds you have, you have a great opportunity to really grow out a bunch of seeds and find the "best of the best" to keep as moms.

In my 2'x2' space, right now I have four Bonsai mom's in 2 L's and another nine clones in 16 oz. cups. I could easily get 6-9 Bonsai mom's in the 2'x2' space. But, my ONLY seed order (so far) has been for 5 strains, 3 of which were "freebies", so I've basically had to take what I could get for the moms.

You could, for example, decide to maintain your top 5 strains/pheno's as mom's. Then, rotate another couple of strains in with each grow to see if you find anything you like better than those "top 5". Since you'll be cloning, if you find something special, you can replace one of the top 5 with the new strain.

It will really give you a chance to grow out all of those seeds you're holding on to and have fun figuring out which ones you enjoy the most, while always keeping your favorite strains on-hand.

Of course, I'm always happy to help you "test" your harvests if you can't decide which of two strains you like better!

Either way, I'll be sub'd to the journal!

Thanks Mr. Krip. I am really paying attention to what you tell me. I'll book mark this page as a guide.
Something tells me you may see allot of Lemon Skunk in my tent soon.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hi Mr.K,

I'm keeping all my mom's in those square pots PGator is talking about, they work fine with hempy mix, in fact I just this week repotted all my mom's to the next size and they're loving it... I just keep a dish under them and water thoroughly every other day, let them drain a bit and put them away without any standing water.

Also when I clone I put my cuttings directly into a root riot cube and then into a prepped 2L and use the bottle top and cap as a humidity dome, that way each plant has it's own and no need for any transplanting. I also spray the inside of the top to regulate humidity... Xlr8's suggestion, I've had 100% success, I'm fixing to do it all over again this weekend.

btw, your girls look great...both veg and flower

I finally got a chance this week to watch that vid on cannabis/cancer...OMG!!

Nice idea on using the 2 L tops as humidity domes!

I need to ask about those pots, though...Does your hempy have a "res" (like your 2 L's) or is it just a hempy mix in a bottom draining pot???

 

[Mr. Krip]

haha krip your last post made me laugh

I noticed in a differnt thread you said you were getting the black star 300 thats from gotham products correct? Do you intend on vegging and flowering with it or just flower? Please let me know how it works out for you ive been on the fence about buying LED since i herd about them but it seems like you have to buy like 2 or 3 $3000 dollar diamond LED's to get any real benefit from them

Actually, my first few grows, when I was flowering in my DIY cab, I was using a BlackStar 180w. But, when I got the tent for the SOG, I purchased a BS 500w for the tent, so the last several months have been with the 500w.

Here's a post I made earlier in this journal as to why I decided on the BlackStar:

SOGgy Daze Ahead For Mr. Krip!

I'm VERY happy with it. The plant that I won POTM with last month was flowered under the BS 500w and so are this month's NOTM entries, as well as all the nug pics you've seen in this journal. The nugs are all very dense - not airy at all, which I did experience with the 180w, but I also believe I had the 180w too high since I was still getting "dialed in" on the grow.

You won't need any more DS lights than you would comparable BlackStars (or vice versa). But, in a decent sized tent, it's not uncommon to need more than one for coverage. And, even when coverage can be accomplished with a single, higher wattage light, there can be some benefits to using multiple lower wattage lights, instead.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Thanks Mr. Krip. I am really paying attention to what you tell me. I'll book mark this page as a guide.
Something tells me you may see allot of Lemon Skunk in my tent soon.

That's great, but I'm only throwing out some ideas for you to think about and I won't be hurt if you decide on another direction. I'm always happy to help any way I can!

That being said, I literally drool at the thought of seeing you find the top 5-10 phenos from ALL of those seeds you have! You know those will be some KILLER meds!

 

[OldMedMan]

That's great, but I'm only throwing out some ideas for you to think about and I won't be hurt if you decide on another direction. I'm always happy to help any way I can!

That being said, I literally drool at the thought of seeing you find the top 5-10 phenos from ALL of those seeds you have! You know those will be some KILLER meds!

Thanks Mr. Krip. I actually found some good ones in this last grow. I few more like Lucy too. The reason I think I'll go with Lemon Skunk.
1 She grows fast
2 She goes straight up.
3.She is good smoke.
4.Indica

New strains in the other side of the tent. May find a mom in those.

Matanuska Tundra has been discontinued......should have taken a clone.

 

[OG13]

I knew that, Mr Krip. I was being a snot, but my point is that many factors must be entered into the 'efficiency' equation. Most of these considerations have 'weighting' unique to each grower. For most, real estate commitment is most significant. Up-front capital outlay also counts big. Variable costs like nutes or electric power are less important, but do count for something.

I agree that to get the most from the area available is efficient, but...
The most of what? Comparing different strains is like counting oranges against apples. What is the crop worth? That's my main measure.

A time-tested rule of thumb is 50 watts HPS per square foot, but even distribution is a big problem on a flat SOG. The right distance(intensity) to the edge of a 4.5 foot square (20 sq ft) Sog might dry-roast the middle. It's about geometry. Bare vert arrangement puts the green in the sweet spot of lumination, all 360 degrees where the bulb radiates.

Geometry is key when you only have one bulb. SOG and SCROG can both benefit from a stadium setup. You elevate the plants/screen around the perimeter of the space. Try to keep equal distance from the bulb to the growing tips. Helps w/ penetration and keeps intensity more even, therefore more even growth and yield. You can use inverted pots, boxes, cut lumber, bricks all as risers. If you have a single bulb, you "don't" want to see a flat Sea/Screen.

You also have to remember how many plants you can keep without undue problems from the man. One gallon SOG will work great, but will need a week or 2 of veg time to make up for the bigger amount of real estate used vs 2 liter bottle sized. I used to SOG w/ 1 gal nursery pots and a timed drip system, gravity fed from a res.

 

[Jozo-sha]

And with LEDs and their more directly down light emitting, a SCROG is where it's gonna be at for me, as soon as these AF's are done. Speaking of, time for a trim on those girls!

 

[sqwheels]

Hi Mr.K,

Yes, the square pots have holes in the bottom, yes a little mix falls out in the beginning but after you've watered a few times its pretty stable. I haven't had any problems using them. I guess you could say they have a little bit of a resevoir only because each corner holds a little water. I'll post some pictures in my journal in tomorrows update...show you what I have done.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Hi Mr.K,

Yes, the square pots have holes in the bottom, yes a little mix falls out in the beginning but after you've watered a few times its pretty stable. I haven't had any problems using them. I guess you could say they have a little bit of a resevoir only because each corner holds a little water. I'll post some pictures in my journal in tomorrows update...show you what I have done.

Sqwheels, yeah, that's what I thought. I'm not that worried about a little perlite/vermiculite falling through, but, and not to criticize your method, the whole idea behind a "hempy" is to have the drainage hole(s) a couple of inches up from the bottom, so the very bottom forms a "res". The vermiculite in the mix will help wick the water up from the res and keep the entire root zone moist.

So, with the holes in the bottom, I think it would not really be a "true" hempy, but more of a simple soilless mix in a standard pot. There's certainly nothing wrong with that, and I wouldn't suggest you change anything that's working well for you, but I just prefer to have the bottom res.

 

[Mr. Krip]

GOOD INFO ON GROWING WITH COCO

I was doing a little research on coco, which I'll probably switch to at some point, and came across this post I though was worth re-posting here:

GROWING IN COCO

Coco coir (coir fibre, Coir, Coco, Coco fibre) is a product derived from the husks of coconuts. Visually it looks a lot like peat. Coco, when used properly, represents the best of soil and hydro in a single media. Coco can be extremely forgiving,and growth tends to be very consistant. Coco is pretty damn tolerant of over-and-under-watering. As you will see below Coco has many amazing properties (and some minor obstacles) making it an ideal medium to grow plants in. Coco is almost a neutral medium, which means that aside from its limited ability to adjust pH to optimum levels, it does not bind nutrients and feed them slowly to the plant over time like traditional “soils” do. (This means that Coco has a relatively low cation exchange capacity (CEC) compared to most “soils”. All the nutrients your plant needs to grow must be provided by you. Coco fiber does, however, create millions of tiny air spaces, which are great for the roots. This is due to the large surface area of the coir particles. Think of coco as a very porous, open cell sponge; it releases water very quickly and as it drains out of the bottom of the containers, it pulls in fresh nutrients and oxygen. The medium holds water, oxygen, and nutrients in a perfect ratio for the roots in these tiny spaces. As oxygen plays an all-important role in respiration (roots pumping nutrient up to the plant), the structure of coco coir further promotes root and plant health. This factor should not be underestimated because healthy roots invariably lead to a healthy plant (and a healthy yield). Coco also has a remarkable capacity to insulate and protect the plant’s root system in hot weather. This means that coco coir isn’t as prone to overheating, due to excessive ambient air temperatures, as many other mediums, making it ideal for warm climates. Because the root zone is cooler, there is more oxygen availble for the roots to use. Watering with coco is different than with soil. If you grow in soil, it can be much easier to “drown” the plant with too much water. Coco on the other hand is so light that there will always be more oxygen left and the plant will have a much harder time being oxygen straved. You can let the pot become dryer the first week only to stimulate root development. We suggest watering your medium until fully saturated (with at least 10% ”run-off”) and then letting your plants go from wet to “barely moist”. Coco can be used differently than this - allowing for multiple waterings a day. A grower must only let Coco go from Wet and Fully Saturated to “Moist” (usually a few hours when the lights are on) before watering again. We have had consistenly great results off of the former method - Going from Wet - to “Barely moist”. Although Coco, has a very good water - to - air ratio (even trumps Rockwool which also claims to have a 70% water - 30% air holding capacity); however coco offers the unique ability of being cut with a further aerating substance like Perlite. Adding perlite can increase your overall oxygen levels within the root zone immensely. We suggest one 1 cu. ft. bag of Perlite to one bag of 50 Liter Canna Coco. This will give you roughly a 60% Coco / 40% Perlite mix, which has ideal aeration levels as well as maintaining an adequate water - holding capacity.Coir holds a considerable amount of water within. It also evenly distributes the water throughout the medium. This is great for growers using drip systems becuase you only need one to two drippers to create full saturation throughout the entire container. However, since Coco holds onto water and nutrient within its structure it creates a pH Buffer within the medium itself. Coco also has a natural tendency (because of its high levels of Potassium contained within) to hold onto to certain salts. This tendency (which contributes to its mid to low CEC value) tends to make Coco’s buffer rather difficult to bust, thus making it harder to change the pH of the medium. Do not fret though because the Buffer CAN be broken. It just takes flushing copious amount of pH corrected 300 ppm nutrient solution (50% of which should be Cal/Mag) with Final Phase (Flushing agent mixed in) through the medium before you even start to grow in it. In this way you can ensure that the pH of the solution going into the medium and the pH of the solution coming out of the solutiion match. (An example of this would be 6.0 pH going into the medium and 6.0 pH coming out as “run-off”. This is a VERY IMPORTANT concept to grasp when using Coco - based mediums. We have made an “info sheet” that deals with this entitled How to do a Proper Flush.

Another issue (touched on above) a grower should be aware of when using Coco - based mediums is that Coco naturally has a good amount of Potasium in it which when released into the medium competes with some nutrients (such as Calcium, Magnesium, Manganese, and Sulfur), therefore we will want to FLUSH the medium on a regualr (weekly or bi-weekly) basis or water with very low ppms / EC values. When Flushing make sure to Flush with 300 ppms of solution made up of Cal/Mag + Nutrient. When Flushing, we also suggest collecting and testing the “run-off” to make sure that the ppms have gone down to almost nothing, and that your pH coming out of the bottom of the containers matches the pH being fed to the plants.

COCO-ORGANIC HYDROPONICS

Again, this is properly covered in the “info sheet” entitled How to do a Proper Flush. (Subsequently, If you Flush regularly we have found that you can feed your plants as High ppms as any other medium we have used). We highly suggest using a medium that was designed to be used with Coco - fibre based mediums such as Canna Coco A+B (which by far is our personal preference), or Pureblend pro Coco / Soil formula. At the very least it is a good idea to “cut” in some of this nutrient Coco is most suited to a run-to-waste system. A "runoff" of 10-20% of the volume watered each watering is the most common recommendation to avoid the possibility of salt buildup in the coco media. Drainage helps control ppms / EC and pH levels, and flushes unnecessary salts out of the media. Since not all plants use similar amounts of nutrient, and they also secrete salts, any surplus of nutrient makes the coco brackish and changes the pH. By means of drainage you flush the media every time you give nutrient, which prevents it from becoming brackish. This fdoes NOT mean that you should Not FLUSH as indicated above, but by regularly testing the run-off you can do less Flushes. Many seasoned Coco growers will only Flush once every 3 weeks.

On a less positive note, coir can also contain high levels of sodium (salt). If you’re growing in coir be aware that this can be a potential problem. We suggest you only use High - Grade Coco Mediums like Canna Coco. Canna is unique in their all natural “chemical” based Flush which brings the overall ppms / EC levels contained within the medium down to next to nothing. Canna Coco also has a great consistency of long to short fibres, and is pre-innoculated with their proprietary Trichoderma strain of beneficial Fungi to help ward off pathogens and help with the initial transplanting process Finally, Coir has two other very important benefits that make it excellent for plant growth. It has naturally occuring enzymes which help ease the roots, and allow for some general stress relief and ease of new growth. It is also an amazing home for beneficial microbes of all kinds. It is organic, and as stated above, very porous, providing the needed aeration fro aerobic micrboes to colonize and thrive. Anyone has grown in Coco, used microbes, and looked at their root zone when they were finished can attest to this. Roots are firm and fluffy. Usually with Huge ropey swirls filling up the entire container (it’s hard to even see the coco by the end cause the entire container is filled with roots) with smaller tendrils coming off the larger coils, and if done correctly, fuzzy micro-hairs throughout!

When planting into Coco we suggest the following 3 protocol:

1. Flush the Medium wih with Final Phase + 300ppm Nutrient Solution (made up 150ppms of CalMag/ Solution (Like MagiCal) and 150ppms of Nutrient) 6.0 pH water.

2. pH the Medium to 6.0 pH. (Make sure you run enough Solution (listed above) at 6.0 through medium!)

3. After the medium has the correct pH - Add 500ppms of Nutrient to “charge” the medium before planting within it. Once it is pre-charged and pH corrected plant into the medium.

3 Potential Problems when using Coco to be aware of:

(As long as you are aware of these potential issues than you can easliy avoid them)

1. Coco holds salts and must be Flushed with 300ppm solution (made up of 150ppms CalMag + 150ppms Nutrient. The Run-off should be tested to see what ppms/Ec nd pH levels are.

2. Can create a pH buffer (at the wrong pH level within the medium) which must be “broken” and re-set to the proper pH level for optimal growth. 6.0 in Vegetative Stage / 5.6-5.8 in the Fruit / Flowering Stage.

3. Coco can still be over-watered (never mind what you have heard). Even if over-watered your plants will still survive. They just will not be happy. So, make sure to let the medium dry out a bit before re-watering!

Procedures to Follow when Using Coco-based Mediums

1. FLUSH the medium on a routine basis. Every 1-2 weeks is what we suggest.

2. Check the “Run-Off” for proper pH level and (when Flushing) for a low ppm / EC value.

3. pH the Medium to 6.0 pH to start with in Vegetative Stage. Drop down to 5.6 - 5.8 in Fruit / Flowering Stage.

4. Do NOT over-water the medium. make sure that it at least goes from “Wet” to “Moist” if not all the way to “Barely Moist” before watering the medium again.In general, this should be about one time a day or even once every other day in the vegetative phase and then one to two times daily in the Bloom phase depending on container size, and enviornmental (temp, humidity, and CO2 levels).

5. We highly suggest using a digestive enzyme solution to help break down dead or dying root mass (such as Cannazyme or Sensizym).

6. We also highly suggest using Beneficial Microbes in Coco. (Some suggestions: Roots Excelurator, Piranha, andVermi - T. Alternatively you could use Great White and Roots Excelurator.

 

[Propa Gator]

I disagree with the three potential problems, and with every proceedure to follow.

 

[Xlr8]

That's good info on Coco, Mr. Krip. There are a whole bunch of good nuggets in there.

I've been really liking coco so far, and plan to continue using it for a while. It's just a pain in the butt mixing up separating mixes for stuff sometimes...

 

[sqwheels]

I'm a little confused...coco sounds like a lot of work, all the flushing and checking pH of run off and all ... isn't vermiculite completely inert? That's why a mix of perl/verm is great for hempy, the perlite creates the air spaces and the verm wicks up a holds the moisture, regardless of the res the mix is very condusive to root growth and aeration...with the benefit of not adding to or taking away from whatever you feed them.

 

[Propa Gator]

"coco sounds like a lot of work, all the flushing and checking pH of run off and all"

That entire piece either states obvious, or misstates. Runoff should be checked for EC & pH, whatever the media. Perlite hempy needs to be fertigated to excess runoff, same as coir. Coco coir leaves plenty of air-space even totally saturated, same as perlite. Difference is that coir retains much more water(nute solution) than perlite, so has no need for a reservoir at the bottom of the pot. No extra flushing of coir is ever needed if daily fertigation runs-off 10 to 30%. If you don't fertigate hempy to excess when you do 'water', a successful grow will likely happen anyway because cannabis is as hearty as a dandelion. Coco coir is much cheaper than perlite, and nearly as inert. If you use that bio-breakdown crap on coir, it'll break it down to become less useful & effective for growing. The writer of the above piece is apparently selling his sponsor's snake oil. I hate sales pitches.

Did I miss anything? I could go on...

 

[420GodsTrichome]

So far, I agree with Propa...

 

[GodSpeed]

Great post Mr Krip there are some very usefull pointers there, I agree that a little extra per caution should be taken when flushing and must be done with the correct ph and not just RO water like I do with every other inert medium, flushing with just RO water is going to throw off the caution balance. One thing I am slightly confused about is it states coco has no CEC and that could lead new comers to alot of problems.

Due to high levels of sodium (Na) and potassium (K) ions in coco, it also has a high CEC for calcium (Ca) and potassium (K). Na and K ions in the medium act as a water softener, stealing Ca and Mg right out of the water. A key difference between the two being the permselectivity of K to Ca ions. This means coco has an exceptionally high CEC for Ca and will actually withhold more Ca than Mg, excess ca will lock out Mg uptake.

Although it is not a nessity and there can be great results without it I.e 3 part feeds, a coco specific nutrient is going to be ideal for someone switching to coco for first time, standard hydroponic feeds do not have the right balance of nutrients to withstand extra requirements that coco need and will almost need extra additives such as cal mag to make up for this.

 

[Propa Gator]

Great post Mr Krip there are some very usefull pointers there, I agree that a little extra per caution should be taken when flushing and must be done with the correct ph and not just RO water like I do with every other inert medium, flushing with just RO water is going to throw off the caution balance. One thing I am slightly confused about is it states coco has no CEC and that could lead new comers to alot of problems.

Due to high levels of sodium (Na) and potassium (K) ions in coco, it also has a high CEC for calcium (Ca) and potassium (K). Na and K ions in the medium act as a water softener, stealing Ca and Mg right out of the water. A key difference between the two being the permselectivity of K to Ca ions. This means coco has an exceptionally high CEC for Ca and will actually withhold more Ca than Mg, excess ca will lock out Mg uptake.

Although it is not a nessity and there can be great results without it I.e 3 part feeds, a coco specific nutrient is going to be ideal for someone switching to coco for first time, standard hydroponic feeds do not have the right balance of nutrients to withstand extra requirements that coco need and will almost need extra additives such as cal mag to make up for this.

In my opinion, based on my obviously healthy plants which are covered with a thick coating of trichomes, the difficulties of growing with coco coir medium can be dealt with by totally ignoring every single thing you said. I use BPN two part according to the usage chart provided, with no amendment what so ever.

The part about feeding the "specific requirements of coco" is especially aggravating when I try to imagine some positive value in your statement. I feed my plants while you speak of feeding the medium.

I care about results, not some fancy harebrained theories. For me, growing the best weed that I've ever seen is like brewing a cup of tea: a feat that I accomplish several times every day. It requires only simple steps, one following another.

BTW, your caution about "alot of problems" is a lot of baloney, and your grammar sucks.

 

[GodSpeed]

I'm very happy you have great success in very little you do or care about when it comes to coco coir, yet iv seen other fail badly due to these reason stated both in Mr Krips quote the following by myself.

Your a wise man prop and I respect your opinion and results but there are also other opinions and results I just cannot ignor.

Yep never ever learned to read or write so well but I can play my guitar like ringing a bell.

 

[Propa Gator]

Oh, my goodness is in short supply today however, I have ranted my bile away. Jamming six strings seems a propa continuation. Huh?

I still feel that you evoke trouble for newbies who grasp problems from unlikely sources. I don't recognize any special talents of mine. I do little that is complicated, except avoid complications when possible. Water(or Drain) To Waste is so natural to me, I lose patience with others who can't see it.

The next time I see the word 'cation' in a post, I must immediately click away elsewhere. I happily allow over-educated Corey to deal with all nutrient formulations for my horticultual benefit. When I read his opinion specific to coir, I realized that he'd already dealt with it in BlueMax + Liquid Blue. I now don't deal with deficiency problems, I avoid them. I try to not 'buy' problems, and get irate when I read or hear a sales pitch for them