Spots and yellow tips at 3rd week

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

Hi All,

Brand new to the forum and to growing. I added some photos, but they seem to be in the members gallery - hopefully they will show up here.

I am at day 23 with some awesome, mystery bag seeds. I probably made as many mistakes as I could but it seems they have been very forgiving until yesterday, when I found a number of small yellowish brown spots on the lower leaves and some yellow tips. A couple of them seem a bit limp as well. (I hope the photos show up).

First mistake was using MiracleGro potting soil to get them going. I have not fertilized due to this. Second was using 1.25 and 2 gallon buckets. I water every 2-4 days depending on weight and overall appearance of the soil. For the first 2 weeks I was using tap water until I was advised to stop, I then switched to spring water and gave them the second dose of spring water yesterday. I water until I have a very small run off.

Three days ago they were moved into their new "permanent" home and during the move suffered about 2 hours with limited light and temperatures of about 50 degrees.

I have had some issues regulating temp and have had them as high as 97 in the (old) room, but nothing over 90 for the last week. Much better since they moved.

Lights are 18/6.
I have 17,400 lumen of 6500K from 48" T-8
19,200 lumen of 5000K from CFL
and 5,800 lumen of 3000K from 48" T-8 in a space that is 4.5'wide x 2.3' deep x 49" high.

Lights vary in distance from plants from about 4" to about 10" inches away.

RH generally holds between 65 and 75 and temps are now running between 75 and 82 on average.

I topped all at 3rd stage and they responded well.
I am hoping someone can tell me what is wrong and if/how I need to fix them. I have turned into one of those worriers that checks on them every 2 hours

I am considering this a practice grow as I will be trying Auto from here on out. I still don't want to lose these ones. They sort of become family.

On a side note: The level of skill and expertise running around on this sight is both staggering and humbling. I am in awe.

Thanks very much

 

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

Looks like the pics did not attach. This is the link to the members gallery page. I guess I will have to figure out how to get the pics here.

Spots and Yellow tips at 3rd week or veg - 420 Magazine Photo Gallery

 

[ShiggityFlip]

the spots look like they could be a small magnesium def. A little epsom salts 1/2 tsp per gal would help or 1/2 tsp/gal unsulphered molasses. The plants look great overall.

To attach pics hit the camera icon next to the filmstrip icon and it will bring up your gallery. Click a pic and it will put it in the post.

 

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

Thanks for the quick reply ShiggityFlip! And for the tip on posting pics. I am going to follow your advice..post haste.

thanks again

 

[Emilya Green]

This to me does not look like a deficiency, and actually I would like to commend you on the look of your plants. They look healthy and happy for the most part.

The spots here and there, especially on the lower fans look to me like what happens when you drip nutrients on the leaves during watering, and then that little magnifying glass sitting on the leaf amplifies the light and burns the leaf. The spots are not in any particular pattern indicating either bug or systemic action by the plant to deal with a deficiency.

The leaf tips are a different matter. Note that they are not everywhere.. but just in one section of the plant. This tells me that on one particular watering, you overdid the nutes just a bit, and you burned those tips in the process. It looks like you did not repeat the error, and since then the plants have been growing nicely, maybe still a bit heavy on the nutes as indicated by the deep green of your leaves, but I really can't fault you for that one since there is an adage out here that if your not burning the tips, you aren't trying hard enough.

Good luck... I look forward to seeing a great harvest from your garden. -- Sense Emilya

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Em, look at the very last two pics, it looks to me like the beginnings of mag, the spots on those pics are very centered between the veins and what may plants started to get when I put them for the first time under LED, the other spots in the first pics look more like mechanical damage from when the leaves were a bit shorter and colliding with the edge of the pot during handling. This is why I recommended either epsom or molasses at the smaller dose, about half of what I have been using.

Schtiggy, just keep an eye on it. Unsulphered molasses would be a good choice because it gives carbs to the soil and is an all around good thing. At 1/2 tsp per gallon it is a very low dose and cheap. Many commercial ferts use molasses as a supplement. My plants love it.

 

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

Thank you Emilya, thank you ShiggityFlip.

I just picked up some molasses. From what I have read here it seems to be an important component in the feeding of the autos that I am going to try. I did recently move them to a new enclosure and they could have probably been handled a bit more gently so I would not discount the possibility that I unintentionally damaged them.

Should I hold off on the molasses for a few days and see if this is something that is going to spread?

I will be using Fox Farms Ocean Forest and the 3 fertilizers for the next round but for this one I used MiracleGro Potting Mix. The bag says that it is 21% Nitrogen.

These past 3 weeks have been very educational and this forum has been beyond helpful. I didn't know how much I didn't know until I found out how MUCH there is to know.

I will keep you updated.

Thanks again

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Molasses is a nice additive to most growing regimens. I keep it on the low side at 1/2 tsp per gallon. Gives some carbs to the plant and beneficial microbes. Adds some micronutrients as well.

 

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

took a bit of a turn for the worse today. Some of the new growth has tips that are not developing. I also have some upper leaves that are going a bit purple and new growth that is starting to yellow from the center outward.

I watered today and added the molasses. Is it possible that they are also calcium deficient?

 

[Emilya Green]

took a bit of a turn for the worse today. Some of the new growth has tips that are not developing. I also have some upper leaves that are going a bit purple and new growth that is starting to yellow from the center outward.

I watered today and added the molasses. Is it possible that they are also calcium deficient?

A picture would help a lot... my esp is not working very well tonight. What pH are you adjusting your fluids to... and what sized containers are they now in, all you said above is that they are their final containers, but I have missed the size. Then knowing that, how often are you watering, and how much at a time? The yellowing of your new upper growth is very concerning... we need to solve this yet tonight if we can.

 

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

The first 6 pics are the new ones I added. I will need to figure out how to do a better job adding pics. In the original post I do have the pot sizes and watering. The pots are 1.5 and 2 gallon pots, which I now know to be too small. I water about every 2-4 days based on weight and appearance and stop at the very first sign of run off. I also used miracle grow potting soil, which i also now know to be a mistake. I do not have a PH meter yet. I have one on order and it is expected to arrive on tuesday. I have not been fertilizing due to the use of MiraclGro potting soil.

 

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

post deleted, prior post edited

 

[Emilya Green]

The first 6 pics are the new ones I added. I will need to figure out how to do a better job adding pics. In the original post I do have the pot sizes and watering. The pots are 1.5 and 2 gallon pots, which I now know to be too small. I water about every 2-4 days based on weight and appearance and stop at the very first sign of run off. I also used miracle grow potting soil, which i also now know to be a mistake. I do not have a PH meter yet. I have one on order and it is expected to arrive on tuesday. I have not been fertilizing due to the use of MiraclGro potting soil.

First, Miracle Grow. All in all, it is a pretty decent soil. I ran nothing but Miracle Grow all through veg and flower for a couple of years, and had pretty good luck with it. Let's just say that it does not kill plants and I do not agree with your statement that it was a mistake... it wasnt optimum, but it was not a mistake.

Based on your description of your watering and comparing that to the looks of your plants, I can't determine if you are actually letting the very bottom of all of your containers dry out between each watering. Some of your plants do have a limp over watered look to them though, and I think that you really could use a moist/wet meter to figure out where the water table is in each of your containers. It isnt happening to all of them, and you really need this meter so that you can be consistent with your plants. You can not assume that all the plants, even planted on the same day, will be using water at the same rate. Water, based on what is happening in each individual container, and not by looks or by counting a certain number of days. Just from the looks of the plants, I would assume that your lower roots on some of the more distressed plants have been underwater for a quite a bit of their life and is a big cause for the lack of rise of the leaves and lack of transpiration. Get one of those cheap meters, if for no other reason than to double check yourself, and make sure that you are definitely waiting to water until the water table falls down into the last inch of each container.

Your other big problem, expressing across all of your plants is clearly pH. The yellowing and malformation of your newest growth indicates a severe deficiency of non-mobile elements, and from the looks of these plants, it is involving several of them. Your pH is most likely too high, and out of the range that would allow these heavy metals to be mobile and to be able to be taken up into the plant. Tuesday, let us know when you find out what the pH is that you have been giving to your plants. It is my bet that it is up over 7.0 to cause damage like this. Adjust if you can on your very next watering to 6.5, and watch the green come back into your plant and normal growth to resume.

 

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

Hi Emilya,

I have decided to begin again. I have the 5 autofem strains from CKS and am gathering all of the necessary supplies to run it properly. I am going with 3 gallon fabric pots and am planning on following the plan laid out in the attached link. I have most of what I need and the rest will all be here by the end of the week. Do you grow autos as well? Having read a number of your posts I would appreciate your thoughts on the regimen shown. Specifically, your opinion on 24/0 lighting vs 18/6.

Thank you for the help with my current, but considering the time and expense and the fact that I started out badly, I think I am better off to start again with more knowledge, better genetics and a higher likelihood of producing females

Bongtastic's Beginner's Guide to Autoflowering Cannabis

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi Emilya,

I have decided to begin again. I have the 5 autofem strains from CKS and am gathering all of the necessary supplies to run it properly. I am going with 3 gallon fabric pots and am planning on following the plan laid out in the attached link. I have most of what I need and the rest will all be here by the end of the week. Do you grow autos as well? Having read a number of your posts I would appreciate your thoughts on the regimen shown. Specifically, your opinion on 24/0 lighting vs 18/6.

Thank you for the help with my current, but considering the time and expense and the fact that I started out badly, I think I am better off to start again with more knowledge, better genetics and a higher likelihood of producing females

Bongtastic's Beginner's Guide to Autoflowering Cannabis

Thanks for asking my opinion on this, but I have not ever grown an autoflower and therefore have no right offering an opinion that has much weight to it. That said however, if I were to grow an auto based on what I know of regular plants and what I have read about working with autos, I would do things much differently than Bonotastic described in his post. I believe a plant is a plant is a plant, and the rules don't change just because you are growing something with an internal clock on hyperdrive... you just need to move a little faster than normal.

I do not agree with the use of 24/0, because I know that plants need their rest period to process the energy that they gather during the day. I know the argument that since it doesn't matter to an auto, that it makes more sense to give them 24/7 energy to work with, but I believe that at a certain point, they just can't process all of the full time light and that at least a little downtime each day would be beneficial. If I were to work with autos, I would compromise at 18/6 for this reason.

I also completely disagree with the idea of never transplanting an auto. All the reasons that we transplant have to do with building the root system, and starting in a big container and not being able to water correctly is counterproductive to that process. I would just transplant more rapidly than usual with an auto, and knowing that it has a ridiculously active metabolism, I would nute as strongly as I could get away with without burning.

Lastly, I have heard them say not to top an auto... and I would not do it as late as a regular, but I most certainly would top... probably around the 4th node and then maybe one more time... but there is so little time to do this sort of thing on a fast growing auto, that I would probably stop there.

But, as I said... I really have no practical experience with autos... so, pay no attention to me.

 

[jhfhklsnhfldk]

Hi Emilya,

I am underway on the new Autos. This question does not fit in this thread but I wanted to ask you directly. What do you think of 8000 and 10000K fluorescent bulbs.

I have read opinions until my eyes crossed. Some say that it is above the usable spectrum for cannabis, some insist that they add 10%+ to their yield. Another says that it should be used during veg then again for the last 3 weeks of flower.

In you knowledge (or opinion) is there a benefit in using 8000 or 10,000K bulbs.

Thanks very much

 

[Emilya Green]

I knew a guy who swore by the coral lights, and ran one for a couple of hours at virtual noon every day believing that it built trichomes. I have never seen a side by side to prove that it didn't work, but I will say that the science is against it... and when considering that wasted watts just add to the cost of your growop, and I am not sure that it is worth the trouble.

Here is what science knows of this. First, the 8k bulbs are working at 362nm and the 10k bulbs are at 290nm. This is down in the deep blue to violet parts of the spectrum, with parts of the output even in the ultraviolet.

Here is a chart of the photosynthesis response at the various light frequencies:

note the lack of response at this 290 - 400 nm range... there is a small peak of activity at 365 nm, but a very weak one compared to when we start getting into the blues, yellows and reds...

It is because of this chart, that I would say that running a coral light in a grow room is mostly a waste of electricity.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

My personal heart is still out on it until I see more experiments run. We often assume that the photosynthetic absorption spectrum is the only response of a plant to light but there may be more involved. This paper talks about UV-b induced flavonoid production. PHOTOMORPHOGENIC RESPONSES OF PLANTS TO UV-B RADIATION
Flavonoids are involved in plant color, metabolic processes, UV resistance, and other processes.

Different genes are also induced by UV-B exposure. Activating genes will make different proteins. Different proteins may have different functions in the plant. More research in these areas will give more information as to what their functions are.