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Black pepper a cure for cannabis related anxiety?

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
Was reading up on anxiety and paranoia while smoking cannabis and came across someone recommending black pepper as a means of reliving cannabis induced anxiety. I don't normally get anxious during smoking so personal testing may have to wait a bit.

Needless to say I was skeptical but the scientific part of me was intrigued. Searching online for black pepper anxiety cannabis brought up many posts and articles on sniffing or chewing black pepper to relieve anxiety from smoking cannabis. Sniffing brought immediate relief whereas chewing would take up to an hour.

The effect of terpenes to synergistically act with THC has intrigued me for awhile. Some strains are specifically reported to avoid the anxiety effect of cannabis. It will be worth checking for me if these have a peppery aspect to their scent or a terpene with similar structure. It makes me curious as well if people will start to have certain essential oils or scents around in the future to enhance certain aspects of the high.

Here is an scientific review paper on terpenes and their effects. It is interesting to note that terpenes and THC are related in synthesis and structure!

Taming THC: potential cannabis synergy and phytocannabinoid-terpenoid entourage effects - Russo - 2011 - British Journal of Pharmacology - Wiley Online Library
 

McCdive

Well-Known Member
Is this something that someone who may have eaten too many canna - cookies or brownies would find relief?
Or is this something that you would try after smoking and you're afraid to drive?
Are those the type scenarios you are talking about? I'm trying understand the problem before the solution. Lol

Thanks, Andy.:Namaste:
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
This would be for people that smoke and end up becoming fearful or anxious. I don't usually have this issue, once in a long while I can feel anxious or paranoid. But not usually. I think there are people who regularly feel this way though. They feel out of control and get anxious. Some people tell me this is the reason they stopped smoking or do not enjoy cannabis. Some try to medicate but are turned off because of anxiety issues. This may help calm them.

I am not sure if it would work for edibles or not.
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
Hi Kriaze. You were the one who mentioned this to me, and I mentioned it on another thread, read by SF, and here we are now. This is a very interesting bit of info and, if it works, might have changed my life slightly -if I had heard of it 30 years ago. Some day I'll screw up my courage and smoke some indica strain and try the black pepper trick. There are many things about the indica high which I don't like, and paranoia is just one, but it is the the worst one. I don't feel it's caused by feeling out of control. I've felt out of control countless times in life, for countless reasons, sometimes from being drastically high, and it doesn't go hand in hand with paranoia. The paranoia is a known side effect of cannabis. It's an all encompassing feeling of anxiety- 'something is wrong'. It leads to many destructive and paralyzing thoughts. Fear may be a useful thing for us in some cases but really, I don't want it in my life, even in low levels. The paranoia is a vicious circle, a negative emotion that feeds on itself. I used to think it was me that was somehow at fault, now I see it as a side effect of some types of cannabis, pure and simple.
You told me a bit about the use of pepper on my journal. Can you give a little more info? How you use it exactly and how it works for you?
Thanks man. :thumb:
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
Hi Kriaze. You were the one who mentioned this to me, and I mentioned it on another thread, read by SF, and here we are now. This is a very interesting bit of info and, if it works, might have changed my life slightly -if I had heard of it 30 years ago. Some day I'll screw up my courage and smoke some indica strain and try the black pepper trick. There are many things about the indica high which I don't like, and paranoia is just one, but it is the the worst one. I don't feel it's caused by feeling out of control. I've felt out of control countless times in life, for countless reasons, sometimes from being drastically high, and it doesn't go hand in hand with paranoia. The paranoia is a known side effect of cannabis. It's an all encompassing feeling of anxiety- 'something is wrong'. It leads to many destructive and paralyzing thoughts. Fear may be a useful thing for us in some cases but really, I don't want it in my life, even in low levels. The paranoia is a vicious circle, a negative emotion that feeds on itself. I used to think it was me that was somehow at fault, now I see it as a side effect of some types of cannabis, pure and simple.
You told me a bit about the use of pepper on my journal. Can you give a little more info? How you use it exactly and how it works for you?
Thanks man. :thumb:
I agree with what you are saying Weaselcracker. I do in fact enjoy an indica high, especially after a tough day at work. That anxious feeling is a killer. I also used to date this beautiful Dutch girl who didn't like smoking because of anxiety effects. The one time I got her to try she ended up very fearful and had a panic attack. I wish I could have tried the black pepper thing back then.

My harvest is coming up and I haven't grown in a few years. Been living off scrap from the last harvest all this time. Well buds first and now scrap haha. My Huckleberry Kush finishes in 10 days or so. It will make me a perfect Guinea pig for the black pepper thing. I have always liked the ability of Mary Jane to remind me of things I need to get done. That's a pretty mild form of anxiety. But I don't like it when I partake further and she starts putting super anxious paranoid thoughts in my head. It's not very often but when it does happen it totally ruins the buzz for obvious reasons.

The interesting thing is that the terpenes responsible for anti-anxiety in cannabis are D-limonene (also in citrus) and linalool (also in lavender). The major terpene in black pepper is beta-caryophellene which is known for its analgesic, anti inflammatory, and digestive effects. So there must be something more in the pepper or beta-caryophellene also has anti anxiety effects as well. When I do the experiment I will try black pepper first, then I will also try smelling fresh lemons, and then lavender. Maybe I will also try a combo cocktail.
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
Found this section on ancient cannabis remedies for unwanted cannabis effects in the paper I linked in the first post.


"In 10th century Persia, Al-Razi offered a prescription in his Manafi al-agdhiya wa-daf madarri-ha (p. 248), rendered (Lozano, 1993, p. 124; translation EBR) '— and to avoid these harms {from ingestion of cannabis seeds or hashish}, one should drink fresh water and ice or eat any acid fruits'. This concept was repeated in various forms by various authorities through the ages, including ibn Sina (ibn Sina (Avicenna), 1294), and Ibn al-Baytar (ibn al-Baytar, 1291), until O'Shaughnessy brought Indian hemp to Britain in 1843 (O'Shaughnessy, 1843). Robert Christison subsequently cited lemon (Figure 3A) as an antidote to acute intoxication in numerous cases (Christison, 1851) and this excerpt regarding morning-after residua (Christison, 1848) (p. 973):


Figure 3. Ancient cannabis antidotes. (A) Lemon (Citrus limon). (B) Calamus plant roots (Acorus calamus). (C) Pine nuts (Pinus spp.). (D) Black pepper (Piper nigrum).

Next morning there was an ordinary appetite, much torpidity, great defect and shortness of memory, extreme apparent protraction of time, but no peculiarity of articulation or other effect; and these symptoms lasted until 2 P.M., when they ceased entirely in a few minutes after taking lemonade.

Literary icons on both sides of the Atlantic espoused similar support for the citrus cure in the 19th century, notably Bayard Taylor after travels in Syria (Taylor, 1855), and Fitzhugh Ludlow after his voluntary experiments with ever higher cannabis extract doses in the USA (Ludlow, 1857). The sentiment was repeated by Calkins (1871), who noted the suggestion of a friend in Tunis that lemon retained the confidence of cure of overdoses by cannabis users in that region. This is supported by the observation that lemon juice, which normally contains small terpenoid titres, is traditionally enhanced in North Africa by the inclusion in drinks of the limonene-rich rind, as evidenced by the recipe for Agua Limón from modern Morocco (Morse and Mamane, 2001). In his comprehensive review of cannabis in the first half of the 20th century, Walton once more supported its prescription (Walton, 1938).

Another traditional antidote to cannabis employing Acorus calamus (Figure 3B) is evident from the Ayurvedic tradition of India (Lad, 1990, p. 131):

Calamus root is the best antidote for the ill effects of marijuana. . . . if one smokes a pinch of calamus root powder with the marijuana, this herb will completely neutralize the toxic side effects of the drug.

This claim has gained credence, not only through force of anecdotal accounts that abound on the Internet, but with formal scientific case reports and scientific analysis (McPartland et al., 2008) documenting clearer thinking and improved memory with the cannabis—calamus combination, and with provision of a scientific rationale: calamus contains beta-asarone, an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor with 10% of the potency of physotigmine (Mukherjee et al., 2007). Interestingly, the cannabis terpenoid, α-pinene, also has been characterized as a potent inhibitor of that enzyme (Miyazawa and Yamafuji, 2005), bolstering the hypothesis of a second antidote to THC contained in cannabis itself. Historical precedents also support pinene in this pharmacological role.

In the firstt century, Pliny wrote of cannabis in his Natural History, Book XXIV (Pliny, 1980, p. 164):

The gelotophyllis ['leaves of laughter'= cannabis] grows in Bactria and along the Borysthenes. If this be taken in myrrh and wine all kinds of phantoms beset the mind, causing laughter which persists until the kernels of pine-nuts are taken with pepper and honey in palm wine.

Of the components, palm wine is perhaps the most mysterious. Ethanol does not reduce cannabis intoxication (Mello and Mendelson, 1978). However, ancient wines were stored in clay pots or goatskins, and required preservation, usually with addition of pine tar or terebinth resin (from Pistacia spp.; McGovern et al., 2009). Pine tar is rich in pinene, as is terebinth resin (from Pistacia terebinthus; Tsokou et al., 2007), while the latter also contains limonene (Duru et al., 2003). Likewise, the pine nuts (Figure 3C) prescribed by Pliny the Elder harbour pinene, along with additional limonene (Salvadeo et al., 2007). Al-Ukbari also suggested pistachio nuts as a cannabis antidote in the 13th century (Lozano, 1993), and the ripe fruits of Pistacia terebinthus similarly contain pinene (Couladis et al., 2003). The black pepper (Figure 3D), might offer the mental clarity afforded by pinene, sedation via myrcene and helpful contributions by β-caryophyllene. The historical suggestions for cannabis antidotes are thus supported by modern scientific rationales for the claims, and if proven experimentally would provide additional evidence of synergy (Berenbaum, 1989; Wagner and Ulrich-Merzenich, 2009)."
 

Kriaze

Well-Known Member
What a great post ShiggityFlip there's not really much more that I can add after that except for the fact that it works for me. If I feel myself going into anxiety or panic mode when I'm smoking I just grind a bit of Black Pepper into my hand, smell it a couple of times and then I feel it hit the top of my head (which usually feels like it's blowing off by then) and the anxiety goes away. It really is that simple for me. I read about the terpine (a-penine) contained in Black Pepper in the publishing from the the British Journal of Pharmacology and how it is used in anti anxiety medication and came to the same conclusion as them, it works for me. Apparently Mangoes contain another complimentary terpine (Mycene) but for this to work it should be ingested an hour or so before smoking which isn't always convenient for me, whereas the pinene seems to work straight away. All the best :thumb:
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
Neil Young was on Howard Stern recently and when Howard mentions he doesn't like smoking because he gets paranoid, Neil recommended chewing a couple pepper balls to get rid of the anxiety.:yikes:
Haha good ol' Neil. Though chewing pepper is not my cup of tea. I now have a pepper grinder near the stash waiting for my next bout of anxiety.
 

McCdive

Well-Known Member
Hahahaha :thumb:
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
Yep, going to the store right now to get some pepper. I'm keen to act guinea pig as soon as I get a chance. Well, not keen exactly, but I'm working up the courage. Funny how many zillion times I have smoked indica strains over the decades, and now that I've figured it out and have the sativa, it's very difficult to think of going back there.
 

Weaselcracker

Nug of the Year: 2016 - Member of the Month: Sept 2015, Nov 2016 - Nug of the Month: Oct 2016 - Plant of the Month: May 2016
Ok I tried this out last night. Had some nice organic peppercorns for the grinder and a free night so I retreated to my guitar playing/wine brewing/trimming/smoking room and had a few puffs of Blueberry. This is one strain I've been growing that I've never even tried before, as it goes to the patients.

I didn't find it too nerve wracking...I felt high with a nice buzz so I smoked a whole bunch more ;) then started spacing out and felt a little worried about what I was doing so I ground up some pepper into my hand and smelled it.
Somehow I had expected this to be an unpleasant experience which would burn my nose, but it wasn't. The pepper fumes were strong, but in a very pleasant way.
I realized that I didn't feel paranoid, even though my mental conditioning kept me expecting it to happen, and I kept trying to analyze my high -thinking there must be something bad about to happen. But instead I just felt a nice stoned glow.
I kept going back to the pepper regularly whenever I felt scattered. It was an addictive action that gave me a feeling of comfort and security. After a pepper session I would return to playing guitar and whatever I was doing with a calm and unjangled outlook.

I don't think the Blueberry is an ass-kickingly strong strain and I certainly never got that panicky out of control feeling that I sometimes get. Since I haven't smoked it before I can't say what it would have been like without pepper. I wasn't keen to find out. It's extremely rare for me to smoke strains containing indica and not have worried feelings tugging at me.

When Kriaze told me about this, I had taken it to mean that he sniffed pepper just once and was good for a whole night. In my case I kept returning to the pepper regularly whenever I felt uncertain. It crossed my mind that it was a bit of a psychological crutch. Then I started dissecting that thought and realized that all sorts of crutches have a psychological aspect. If you have a broken leg, a crutch is, psychologically, a very reassuring thing to have next to you. :thumb:

I ended up with a small pile of ground pepper beside me and started wondering what it would be like to smoke some, so I tried some in honor of DankWolf who likes that sort of experiment. Here's to you DW wherever you are :high-five:
First toke of the pepper was quite nice, with a strong blast that caught at the back of my throat like tobacco. This quickly settled and my whole throat felt like a piece of spiced meat, like pepperoni. Then I started to feel more like a large piece of burnt pepperoni as a charred aftertaste kicked in.
I couldn't tell if it helped me feel better. I felt fine already. The burnt taste subsided and was gone after five minutes. I ended up putting the pepper in a shotglass for sniffing. * warning- close your eyes when smelling it. I managed to get a small piece in my eye at one point.

After my long break from indica smoking this really gave me good insight on the type of high it gives me. I still experienced some indica side effects that I don't 100% like, like 3 AM munchies, and a bit more of a dopey glowing high- slightly more akin to alcohol than the sativa. Also was a bit more forgetful.
On the other hand I was more relaxed and mellow than with sativa which tends to keep me pretty zippy and busy, and I got to sleep slightly earlier.
I'll try this again sometime with stronger herb like the Pineapple Chunk, which always gave me a 'large sledgehammer to the forehead' feeling when I dared try it.
I think this was a big success and I look forward to some of you guys expanding on this longwinded and possibly garbled review I'm attempting to write. If it works, as it seems to, I can't believe that it's not common knowledge with all types of cannabis users, including the mainstream medical profession.
 

Kriaze

Well-Known Member
Hey Weaselcracker I'm so happy that you tried out this relief from anxiety. I've been doing this regularly for a year or so and I've found that the effect seems to last enough now so that I don't tend to need it as often as I used to. When I first started using it I too was having a sniff every smoke or pipe full but the effect seems to be a lot longer lasting than that and this is maybe what I should have stated when we discussed it on your thread as that is probably why you are under the impression that once a night is enough for me. It is enough now but never used to be, apologies for my lack of information on that subject.

I've not tried smoking the pepper but I would expect that the terpines could work in the same way using that method, maybe I'll shock a few of the lads when we next get together for a smoke and see whether they will partake of an MJ and pepper laden joint, it could be a new trend. If so then I shall name it the Weaselcrackedpepper combo in your honour :) I think one of my mates will try it, I'm unsure about the rest as like a lot of people when I even discuss having a sniff to alleviate symptoms I feel like I'm given the 'look', like wtf is this fella on type of thing. Luckily I have broad shoulders and accept their attitude as I know what works well for me and that's what counts ;)

A great write up mate and may you forever experience the true pleasure of being able to smoke whichever strain you like and reap the benefits of both without the penalties of either. I tip my hat to you and shall raise a glass in your honour whilst I smoke some DD tonight. All the best to you and to everyone else that is here making 420Magazine the most enlightened and informative place on the Internet in regards to MJ. :Namaste:

PS: I tried giving you reps but it seems that I must spread it around first, consider it owed until I find another worthy post from someone. Shouldn't take me too long on this magazine :thumb:
 

kelticBlue

Creme de la Creme Photos: Dec 2016, Apr 2017 - Photo of the Month: May 2018
. . . Apparently Mangoes contain another complimentary terpine (Mycene) but for this to work it should be ingested an hour or so before smoking which isn't always convenient for me, whereas the pinene seems to work straight away. All the best :thumb:
This is cool. I remember being told 'Mangos Mellow'. It was my understanding it would help with 'the willies'.

Excited to learn this.
Interesting.........I like!
:thanks:
 

ShiggityFlip

Member of the Month: Jan 2016, Aug 2017 - Nug of the Month: June 2017 - Photo of the Month: Sept 2016
Made this post the other night but didn't hit the post button lol:

"Ok so I have been hitting the vape heavily and ripping a few as well. I have tingly fingertips and my heart has picked up a bit. In the good way. But I feel that tinge. Ok so I take my pepper grinder that has a cover and grind it a bit. Open the lid and sniff the pepper inside. It is like breathing fresh air in a way...it calms the heart and I feel smooth for a minute or so. My head is wrapped in a good sativa buzz that weighs down the end of my nose and tightens my cheeks. Another pepper sniff (just the smell not the pepper)....hmmm. It's hard to describe. It is strange to be aware of pepper having a physiological effect...I love pepper and spice, and I have been transformed by meals, but this is different. The pepper is changing something. The vibration of the buzz is different, do you know what I mean?

Now I must think about it and realize this can all be placebo effect. I am trying this new thing and want it to be different and interesting. So my expectations may affect the outcome of what I am feeling. Still when my heart starts towards racing again I reach for the pepper. So I will keep examining this thing over time. It is always hard to quantify new experience. You have to get used to things a little in order to make a real assessment."
 

golfer420

Well-Known Member
Made this post the other night but didn't hit the post button lol:

"Ok so I have been hitting the vape heavily and ripping a few as well. I have tingly fingertips and my heart has picked up a bit. In the good way. But I feel that tinge. Ok so I take my pepper grinder that has a cover and grind it a bit. Open the lid and sniff the pepper inside. It is like breathing fresh air in a way...it calms the heart and I feel smooth for a minute or so. My head is wrapped in a good sativa buzz that weighs down the end of my nose and tightens my cheeks. Another pepper sniff (just the smell not the pepper)....hmmm. It's hard to describe. It is strange to be aware of pepper having a physiological effect...I love pepper and spice, and I have been transformed by meals, but this is different. The pepper is changing something. The vibration of the buzz is different, do you know what I mean?

Now I must think about it and realize this can all be placebo effect. I am trying this new thing and want it to be different and interesting. So my expectations may affect the outcome of what I am feeling. Still when my heart starts towards racing again I reach for the pepper. So I will keep examining this thing over time. It is always hard to quantify new experience. You have to get used to things a little in order to make a real assessment."
:19::19:

Thanks for re-living this for us :thumb:
 

Kriaze

Well-Known Member
Made this post the other night but didn't hit the post button lol:

"Ok so I have been hitting the vape heavily and ripping a few as well. I have tingly fingertips and my heart has picked up a bit. In the good way. But I feel that tinge. Ok so I take my pepper grinder that has a cover and grind it a bit. Open the lid and sniff the pepper inside. It is like breathing fresh air in a way...it calms the heart and I feel smooth for a minute or so. My head is wrapped in a good sativa buzz that weighs down the end of my nose and tightens my cheeks. Another pepper sniff (just the smell not the pepper)....hmmm. It's hard to describe. It is strange to be aware of pepper having a physiological effect...I love pepper and spice, and I have been transformed by meals, but this is different. The pepper is changing something. The vibration of the buzz is different, do you know what I mean?

Now I must think about it and realize this can all be placebo effect. I am trying this new thing and want it to be different and interesting. So my expectations may affect the outcome of what I am feeling. Still when my heart starts towards racing again I reach for the pepper. So I will keep examining this thing over time. It is always hard to quantify new experience. You have to get used to things a little in order to make a real assessment."
A great write up ShiggityFlip but I have a burning question. Did you not hit the post button because you forgot or was it because you were not enough at ease to do so? If the latter is the case you have disproven the theory that the ground peppercorns work to relieve anxiety! :)

To be fair though I do feel that the test cannot be completely unbiased by any of us that are having this discussion as even the fact that we wonder whether it is a placebo or are willing it to work so to speak will affect the outcome due to our psychological preference at that time. We need a Guinea pig and I have one lined up :)

A very old friend of mine has invited us to stay at their house next week while the work is being done on mine, he used to smoke MJ until he got tired of the anxiety effects that it gave him but I know that he will want to smoke some with me. I'm thinking I'll grab the pepper grinder and take it with me just in case he gets that way (or if I do but it doesn't happen as often lately, but being in his new house with his new family may well change that while we're smoking).

I think reasonably that the only way to have a true result is to test it without any former bias or predictions either way. My friend will forgive me :Namaste:
 
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