Un-Lucky Queen 12/12 Hempy

[Doc Bud]

Oh silly Rabbits, tricks are for kids.....Long ago in another time, lets say 1973 in Salmon Creek, Humboldt. Where I ran over 3 miles of PVC pipe for a new advnture in the great NORCAL. Where growers, had no crazy named ferts. Currenty, where the name of the ferts are more intersting then the results of the quality of the weed. Where these gower's had just returned from Kush Mountain, Afghanistan with a fresh bucket full of seeds to plant in a new region called Humboldt Co. To this day, I have never seen such humongous buds grown with 5-1 fish great soil and no crazy named ferts! Like I said, "Tricks are for kids, silly rabbits....

I don't think there's too many folks here that have the kind of experience that you do, Skid. I sure don't.

I think the genetics were still pure back then....and people grew plants in a "normal" fashion....their notions about growing plants weren't all twisted around by the insane marketing of "nutes" to hobby growers.

I got sucked in when I first started.....but I tend to learn fast. It also helps to see vegetables growing really well about 20 yards away from the pot garden. Makes you ask questions like:

how come I don't pH the water for my veggies?
How come they veg, bloom and fruit up without "open sesame" or "Bud factor X?"

Why is Bud Factor X so great anyways.....hmmmm.....OH! It's epsom salt. Magnesium sulfate. That's usually cheap in the drug store.....but about 100 bucks if you buy it from Big Mike.

Sorry....that's just a rip off. We can do better.

 

[Skid Mark]

Ha!

 

[Doc Bud]

had some sick gals from a ebb/flow from when a pump clogged with tree debris from my open roof grow... I tossed em in a hempy with dynamite and they are looking really good after ~10 days...I had basically written them off as dead.

Hey Doc, you could also sell small bags of DocBud fertz as a special triage formula for nearly DOA plants for even more money!

Amazing what a good draining medium, air on the air roots and good quality nutrients will do for a plant!

Cheap too.

 

[Hash Hound]

Heeeeeellllllpppppppp !!!!!!!

Took an outside plant inside, i know thats taboo
checked it real good for bugs, didnt see any
Its about 18 inch mini xmas tree
transplanted in to a 1/3 loose potting soil, 2/3 turface, 4gal pot.
used 3 tbsp dynamite 13/13/13, spoon at 2 inch level, spoon at the bottom of the transplanted root ball, and another about an inch below the surface around the root ball.
now some of the fan leaves have black spots about the size of a pencil eraser with brown circles around them and yellow around them, like it is progressively going from yellow to black, any thoughts?
I am guessing its not a deficiency since it has just been re potted less than a week ago, but im no expert.
cant take a pic and cant seem to find a comparable pic on line.
No big loss if we have to toss the plant if its an infestation, but would like to save it it is such a nice branchy little thing.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: Heeeeeellllllpppppppp !!!!!!!

Took an outside plant inside, i know thats taboo
checked it real good for bugs, didnt see any
Its about 18 inch mini xmas tree
transplanted in to a 1/3 loose potting soil, 2/3 turface, 4gal pot.
used 3 tbsp dynamite 13/13/13, spoon at 2 inch level, spoon at the bottom of the transplanted root ball, and another about an inch below the surface around the root ball.
now some of the fan leaves have black spots about the size of a pencil eraser with brown circles around them and yellow around them, like it is progressively going from yellow to black, any thoughts?
I am guessing its not a deficiency since it has just been re potted less than a week ago, but im no expert.
cant take a pic and cant seem to find a comparable pic on line.
No big loss if we have to toss the plant if its an infestation, but would like to save it it is such a nice branchy little thing.

I have no idea what those spots may be....but your plant will probably recover.

 

[Grower Z]

Hi Docbud,

You are quietly gaining some notoriety on the internet for this money saving / ease of use discovery. Thank you for sharing it.

Ozmocote Plus @ 16 cents per 2 gallon plant? Damn. And I thought the Scotts Peters Hydro special (5-11-26) + Calcium Nitrate (15.5-0-0-19.0) + Epsom salts was inexpensive.

I think you've us beat though Doc, but just barely.

Also, thank you for spreading the gospel on too much P and not enough N in containers.

I do, however, have something constructive to add. Instead of the Hygrozyme, save even more money and use one of the enzyme products marketed towards pond hobbyists. Also sold hardware stores, pet stores and online.

Pond-Zyme plus, Nice n' Easy Pond & Lake restoration, Fountain Cleaner, etc.

 

[Doc Bud]

Hi Docbud,

You are quietly gaining some notoriety on the internet for this money saving / ease of use discovery. Thank you for sharing it.

Ozmocote Plus @ 16 cents per 2 gallon plant? Damn. And I thought the Scotts Peters Hydro special (5-11-26) + Calcium Nitrate (15.5-0-0-19.0) + Epsom salts was inexpensive.

I think you've us beat though Doc, but just barely.

Also, thank you for spreading the gospel on too much P and not enough N in containers.

I do, however, have something constructive to add. Instead of the Hygrozyme, save even more money and use one of the enzyme products marketed towards pond hobbyists. Also sold hardware stores, pet stores and online.

Pond-Zyme plus, Nice n' Easy Pond & Lake restoration, Fountain Cleaner, etc.

NIce to have you on my journal!

And you are so, so right on the Hygrozyme....I knew I was getting ripped off on that too, bud hadn't started my investigation yet!

I've also wanted to try Peter's and Jack's classic as well as some of the commercial ferts.

The bottom line is that our plants are EASIER to grow than other plants and all these "nutes" that are pitched at us are insulting to my intelligence, not to mention my wallet!

BTW, anyone who wants two half gallons of Con a Sewer and 2 quarts of Sensi Grow.....barely used.....let me know. I'll sell 'em to ya cheap! 30 bucks for the lot! That's a savings of over 300 dollars.

 

[Skid Mark]

Ha! I love! It's the flowering hormone that create flowers not high levels of p. Once the light cycle kicks the flowering hormone in gear it's on! The only way one can reverse the flowering hormone is to kick the light cycle up. High levels of N will only supply more sugar and as result sweeter and stickier buds not vegging silly rabbit!

 

[IrishBoy]

I do, however, have something constructive to add. Instead of the Hygrozyme, save even more money and use one of the enzyme products marketed towards pond hobbyists. Also sold hardware stores, pet stores and online.

Pond-Zyme plus, Nice n' Easy Pond & Lake restoration, Fountain Cleaner, etc.

this wont hurt out plants at all? what ratios do we mix at? this could be a huge savings for allot of people!

 

[MountainHigh]

this wont hurt out plants at all? what ratios do we mix at? this could be a huge savings for allot of people!

Wow I just looked up the first one and for 20 bucks you get a pound. It is in dry form and says 1 spoonful per 100 gallons of pond.... twice a week or something like that...you would need very minimal doses per gallon...amazing..I bookmarked that for future purchase.

I think I would buy small unless you have a giant grow. That pound may be way too much..haha.

That was a great tip.

brother.

 

[IrishBoy]

Wow I just looked up the first one and for 20 bucks you get a pound. It is in dry form and says 1 spoonful per 100 gallons of pond.... twice a week or something like that...you would need very minimal doses per gallon...amazing..I bookmarked that for future purchase.

I think I would buy small unless you have a giant grow. That pound may be way too much..haha.

That was a great tip.

brother.

thats what i am saying 1 spoonful per 100 gallons of pond!! it must be like 1/8tsp per 10gal or something! thats why i was asking how much to mix per gal or whatever for us small growers?lol

 

[Grower Z]

this wont hurt out plants at all? what ratios do we mix at? this could be a huge savings for allot of people!

Shouldn't hurt, but mind the dilution.

If you look around, hint "cheaper enzymes", one guy is using Stresszyme at 1:10 cup:gallon ratio.

Another product name is Carefree Enzymes and the mfctr. advises 15 ml per 100 gallons for hydroponic systems.

And another note of praise for DocBud, thank you for spreading the word on total alkalinity of the water supply...Ammoniacal vs Nitrate Nitrogen and effects on substrate pH, etc.

 

[IrishBoy]

Shouldn't hurt, but mind the dilution.

If you look around, hint "cheaper enzymes", one guy is using Stresszyme at 1:10 cup:gallon ratio.

Another product name is Carefree Enzymes and the mfctr. advises 15 ml per 100 gallons for hydroponic systems.

And another note of praise for DocBud, thank you for spreading the word on total alkalinity of the water supply...Ammoniacal vs Nitrate Nitrogen and effects on substrate pH, etc.

cool found it. look like i have some studying to do.lol. to save me time witch one was the best at the end?

i am leaning towards the Pond-Zyme plus

 

[Grower Z]

This isn't something that I personally have tried yet, but if you look around the 'net you'll find others using them successfully as a replacement for the 'zyme products marketed directly to hydroponics customers. I do need to get on this though, what with several large storage bins with re-used coir in them, waiting for enzyme treatment to assist in the breakdown of the roots and what not.

 

[langa78]

hey docbud its just taken me 2hrs to read through this journal and boy some cracking info especially on the rip off nutes i will certainly be purchasing osmocote for my next grow so so simple and amazing grow by the way 12/12 really works well, i was going to ask what size was your grow area?mine is 3x3x5 just wondered how many plants i could get in here on 12/12 from start. cant wait to see your next grow

 

[Grower Z]

Docbud, if this excerpt is too long, tell me and I will cut it down.

I thought you might like this from Maximum Yield magazine. If this article wasn't written about and for Cannabis growers, well than I will eat my hat.

Nutrient Ratios for Modern Crops
by Erik Biksa 2009-08-01

So, now back to the question: "Who has determined the nutrient values and ratios in your crop feeding program?" All right, well most folks are likely to say "the manufacturer." Okay, so the manufacturer determined the nutrient ratios. That beckons the question of how they were able to determine what concentrations and ratios of plant nutrient elements to provide for your particular crop and at what times in the vegetative and bloom phases of growth. Well from there you can only guess, unless you have information that says otherwise.

[..]

Due to archaic field crop research crossed over into nutrient formulations intended for modern high producing indoor crops, there are some really huge misconceptions about what is optimal for nutrient ratios in the bloom phase for indoor crops grown in artificial environments. The simplest way to illustrate this fact is to look at one of the most popular types of products in the hydroponics industry, and that's the "bloom booster."

The majority of bloom boosters contain very high levels of phosphorous and moderate to lower amounts of potassium. They may also contain other macro and micro elements including magnesium, sulfur and iron. Growers begin to apply these types of products through the early bloom phase and late into flowering prior to "flushing" the crop before harvest. There seems to be a general consensus that the modern indoor containerized (or "systemized," if you prefer) plant in the bloom phase needs abundant amounts of phosphorous relative to other nutrients. Well the truth is that they do not, because:

Phosphorous is highly available to containerized or systemized plants grown indoors relative to outdoor conditions where it is quickly leeched away from the root zone via mass flow.

When examining analytical reports charting the nutrient profile of a high yielding indoor crop at harvest (plant tissue analysis) it becomes clear that even in a variety of strains within the same plant type, that the plant requires nearly five times more each nitrogen and potassium relative to phosphorous.​

For example, if the plants elemental profile at harvest time was analyzed to reveal that healthy yields consisted primarily of nitrogen, potassium and calcium relative to phosphorous, why then are growers applying so much phosphorous (relative to other nutrient elements) in the bloom phase, and more importantly, what effect is this over abundance of phosphorous having on crops?

To answer the first part of the question, as indoor growers we are applying too much phosphorous because the recommendations for applications and formulations have been based on outdoor field agriculture practices, which simply don't apply directly to indoor gardens. In nature the soil is very deep, and roots do not occupy the entire body of soil as they do in containers, beds or systems found with indoor gardens. Phosphorous leeches from the root zone in natural soils quickly, washing away from the contact zone with plant roots, as it drains with water further into the depths of the earth. To ensure a healthy supply of phosphorous, outdoor conventional field agricultural growers do a sort of "over-application" of phosphorous, because it has been determined that much of it will be quickly leeched away from the plant roots; what remains at any given time can be taken up by the crop. From this, we can learn that excessive "P" values in our N-P-Ks are not necessary for indoor growers, where phosphorous maintains a high level of contact within the root zone of plants grown in artificial soils and in containers, beds and systems commonly found with intensive indoor growing environments.​

 

[Doc Bud]

hey docbud its just taken me 2hrs to read through this journal and boy some cracking info especially on the rip off nutes i will certainly be purchasing osmocote for my next grow so so simple and amazing grow by the way 12/12 really works well, i was going to ask what size was your grow area?mine is 3x3x5 just wondered how many plants i could get in here on 12/12 from start. cant wait to see your next grow

The foot print of my grow area is 4x4, with a single 1000 watt light. I can't find my camera....but I filled up a shopping bag with trimmed buds....well over a pound. I'll get final weights after a bit of a cure.

You could grow 20 plants in this space, as long as one of them isn't like that Sativa I had. These plants were basically all cola, with some nicely formed lower buds....each plant had a very small foot print.

Docbud, if this excerpt is too long, tell me and I will cut it down.

I thought you might like this from Maximum Yield magazine. If this article wasn't written about and for Cannabis growers, well than I will eat my hat.

Nutrient Ratios for Modern Crops
by Erik Biksa 2009-08-01

So, now back to the question: "Who has determined the nutrient values and ratios in your crop feeding program?" All right, well most folks are likely to say "the manufacturer." Okay, so the manufacturer determined the nutrient ratios. That beckons the question of how they were able to determine what concentrations and ratios of plant nutrient elements to provide for your particular crop and at what times in the vegetative and bloom phases of growth. Well from there you can only guess, unless you have information that says otherwise.

[..]

Due to archaic field crop research crossed over into nutrient formulations intended for modern high producing indoor crops, there are some really huge misconceptions about what is optimal for nutrient ratios in the bloom phase for indoor crops grown in artificial environments. The simplest way to illustrate this fact is to look at one of the most popular types of products in the hydroponics industry, and that's the "bloom booster."

The majority of bloom boosters contain very high levels of phosphorous and moderate to lower amounts of potassium. They may also contain other macro and micro elements including magnesium, sulfur and iron. Growers begin to apply these types of products through the early bloom phase and late into flowering prior to "flushing" the crop before harvest. There seems to be a general consensus that the modern indoor containerized (or "systemized," if you prefer) plant in the bloom phase needs abundant amounts of phosphorous relative to other nutrients. Well the truth is that they do not, because:

Phosphorous is highly available to containerized or systemized plants grown indoors relative to outdoor conditions where it is quickly leeched away from the root zone via mass flow.

When examining analytical reports charting the nutrient profile of a high yielding indoor crop at harvest (plant tissue analysis) it becomes clear that even in a variety of strains within the same plant type, that the plant requires nearly five times more each nitrogen and potassium relative to phosphorous.​

For example, if the plants elemental profile at harvest time was analyzed to reveal that healthy yields consisted primarily of nitrogen, potassium and calcium relative to phosphorous, why then are growers applying so much phosphorous (relative to other nutrient elements) in the bloom phase, and more importantly, what effect is this over abundance of phosphorous having on crops?

To answer the first part of the question, as indoor growers we are applying too much phosphorous because the recommendations for applications and formulations have been based on outdoor field agriculture practices, which simply don't apply directly to indoor gardens. In nature the soil is very deep, and roots do not occupy the entire body of soil as they do in containers, beds or systems found with indoor gardens. Phosphorous leeches from the root zone in natural soils quickly, washing away from the contact zone with plant roots, as it drains with water further into the depths of the earth. To ensure a healthy supply of phosphorous, outdoor conventional field agricultural growers do a sort of "over-application" of phosphorous, because it has been determined that much of it will be quickly leeched away from the plant roots; what remains at any given time can be taken up by the crop. From this, we can learn that excessive "P" values in our N-P-Ks are not necessary for indoor growers, where phosphorous maintains a high level of contact within the root zone of plants grown in artificial soils and in containers, beds and systems commonly found with intensive indoor growing environments.​

Interesting stuff!

I posted a link to a study somewhere back a few pages....bottom line is that our plants like 3-1-3 or 2-1-2 or some combo, like 3-1-2 or 2-1-3. The important thing is the "1."
For a while now, I've been questioning the notion that big blooms and fruits come from high phosphorus levels...the higher the better. But mostly, what I read is that phosphorus is more important to roots and young seedlings......for fruiting and flowering the plant needs phosphorus, but not in excessive levels....potassium is more important.

However, at no time does the plant need massively high levels of anything.... 3-1-2 and all the micro's will get 'er done.

 

[langa78]

thanks doc bud, man im having a few issues with mine at the moment and you seem pretty clued up do u think you could take a look and share some of your knowledge on the situation would be much appreciated man

 

[Skid Mark]

On another note: I have been growing Atlantic Giant Pumpkins for about 15 years. No serious grower of these massive pumpkins will you hear say "pump the phosphorus to them for the big one!" You will hear "pump the potassium to them for the big one!" Its all about ROOT structure for the big one! You are "RIGHT ON: with the potassium deal Doc! I would be laughed out of the forum on growing Atalantic giant's if I suggested use high phosphorus during fruiting. So i guess if one wants to waste money on something at the garden store buy potassium. Rule of thumb, if the plant looks like it needs something give it them, if she looks healthy leave her alone. Simple, simple, simple.....

 

[Doc Bud]

On another note: I have been growing Atlantic Giant Pumpkins for about 15 years. No serious grower of these massive pumpkins will you hear say "pump the phosphorus to them for the big one!" You will hear "pump the potassium to them for the big one!" Its all about ROOT structure for the big one! You are "RIGHT ON: with the potassium deal Doc! I would be laughed out of the forum on growing Atalantic giant's if I suggested use high phosphorus during fruiting. So i guess if one wants to waste money on something at the garden store buy potassium. Rule of thumb, if the plant looks like it needs something give it them, if she looks healthy leave her alone. Simple, simple, simple.....

Simple! Exactly.

Not as easy as ripping off stoners with stunningly inflated prices for nutrients though.....