When are we gonna see battery powered grow lights?

[stickyfingerz86]

I mean is this a ridiculous question? Especially now that everyones trying to grow. Not only will it be more sustainable but it'll cut cost of electricity for growers. Any info on this?

 

[Stunned]

I only use Duracells!

 

[TorturedSoul]

I mean is this a ridiculous question?

I'd guess more an ignorant one than a ridiculous one. What size battery (or battery pack) do you suppose you'd need to power the equivalent of even a 400-watt light - for 12 or 18 hours per day? You'd need a means to charge it in less than 12 (or 6) hours, every single day. And to be able to do so reliably, in such a way that the useful life of your battery isn't significantly degraded. Or else you'd need several such batteries, so you could rotate them into and out of service, which would allow you to spend longer charging them than their normal daily "off time" would allow for.

Not only will it be more sustainable but it'll cut cost of electricity for growers.

Less sustainable, and increase the amount of electricity used. Unless you're thinking about some sort of magical, self-charging battery, lol, then you've still got to charge the thing - and you'll have a non-zero loss due to nothing ever being 100% efficient. There's also the cost of mining the raw materials, transporting them to the manufacturing facility, doing the actual manufacturing and packaging, transporting the batteries to the warehouses and then to the point of sale (or, perhaps, directly to the PoS), then transporting them to you after you purchase them....

 

[stickyfingerz86]

if they can use batteries to power cars then they can use batteries to power lights. Yes of course would need to charge the batteries but for what maybe 2 hours? instead of 14 hours of electricity. Ya'll can all doubt it until it's reality. Then I dont't want to hear anybody laugh.

 

[stickyfingerz86]

I'd guess more an ignorant one than a ridiculous one. What size battery (or battery pack) do you suppose you'd need to power the equivalent of even a 400-watt light - for 12 or 18 hours per day? You'd need a means to charge it in less than 12 (or 6) hours, every single day. And to be able to do so reliably, in such a way that the useful life of your battery isn't significantly degraded. Or else you'd need several such batteries, so you could rotate them into and out of service, which would allow you to spend longer charging them than their normal daily "off time" would allow for.



Less sustainable, and increase the amount of electricity used. Unless you're thinking about some sort of magical, self-charging battery, lol, then you've still got to charge the thing - and you'll have a non-zero loss due to nothing ever being 100% efficient. There's also the cost of mining the raw materials, transporting them to the manufacturing facility, doing the actual manufacturing and packaging, transporting the batteries to the warehouses and then to the point of sale (or, perhaps, directly to the PoS), then transporting them to you after you purchase them....

Good point. In the end I believe they would still be more sustainable. Transportation is inevitable. But what if the transportation was also made more sustainable?

 

[stickyfingerz86]

I'd guess more an ignorant one than a ridiculous one. What size battery (or battery pack) do you suppose you'd need to power the equivalent of even a 400-watt light - for 12 or 18 hours per day? You'd need a means to charge it in less than 12 (or 6) hours, every single day. And to be able to do so reliably, in such a way that the useful life of your battery isn't significantly degraded. Or else you'd need several such batteries, so you could rotate them into and out of service, which would allow you to spend longer charging them than their normal daily "off time" would allow for.



Less sustainable, and increase the amount of electricity used. Unless you're thinking about some sort of magical, self-charging battery, lol, then you've still got to charge the thing - and you'll have a non-zero loss due to nothing ever being 100% efficient. There's also the cost of mining the raw materials, transporting them to the manufacturing facility, doing the actual manufacturing and packaging, transporting the batteries to the warehouses and then to the point of sale (or, perhaps, directly to the PoS), then transporting them to you after you purchase them....

there's a way, sir. nobody believed we would have cameras and computers in our pockets. And have you heard about IBM making a computer the size of a grain of salt?

 

[stickyfingerz86]

there's a way, sir. nobody believed we would have cameras and computers in our pockets. And have you heard about IBM making a computer the size of a grain of salt?

you should read this book called Homo Deus. It's brilliant. Will probably make you believe in the power of technology.

 

[GatorGumbo]

This is actually a pretty interesting question. From what I understand the Volt has a range of less than 100 miles but will consume the equivalent of 35 hours worth of 1000W power, and it can easily fully charge in 12 hours or less. Battery technology is researched heavily, but we're talking about pretty serious (expensive) batteries all the same. Would be nice having a few batteries to rotate, could charge them at odd hours to take advantage of non-peak hours or throw off household power usage trends.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I read the author's previous book, Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind, and found the author to be... well, one hesitates to use the phrase "a no-talent hack," but when someone claiming to write nonfiction refuses to allow facts to stand in the way, lol... I believe I'll skip Homo Deus.

Yes, there are battery-powered automobiles. The average one still takes at least an entire night to charge via a standard 15-amp 120V circuit whilst providing less than an entire night's driving ability. You can, of course, install a specialized charging circuit - and most people who own electric vehicles probably do. That shortens the charging time, but doesn't extend the run time.

The battery-powered vehicle is actually not a new concept. There was the Baker Motor Vehicle Company (1899-1914). And the Anderson Electric Car Company's Detroit Electric vehicle was produced from 1907 to 1939 or thereabouts. That one was advertised as having an 80-mile range - but once ran 211 miles on a single charge.

Battery-powered vehicles make sense, for a number of reasons. Battery-powered lights... much less so. A big part of the electric vehicle's appeal is that it is powered by electricity instead of fossil fuel (people not realizing that a huge percentage of the world's electricity is still generated by fossil fuels, I suppose ) . But, see, the thing is... is that lights are already powered by electricity. All that you accomplish by throwing batteries into the equation is wasting electricity (see my previous comment about nothing being 100% efficient).

That's in a "normal" scenario, of course. If you're living off-grid and forced to lump diesel fuel from the nearest fuel station to your camper/cabin/cave, then it might seem like a good idea - if you've got an easy and relatively inexpensive way to charge multiple high-capacity batteries off-site and transport them back and forth to your grow site.

This is my opinion, of course.

 

[iLlama]

I'm wondering if this post is real or just trying to troll. What should be the purpose of batteries for growing?

I mean.. You use battery when you have no access to electricity, but when you do have the access, you use rather electricity...

Also why would you add another segment into the chain? Only scenario I can think of using batteries is when you run out of electricity, but, well, we have generators for that.

Pretty much what TorturedSoul said...

If you are somewhere far away from civilization... But even on this scenario it doesn't really make sense, because you would have to have damn freaking big / expensive kind of batteries to sustain the power supply and... Then you still have to charge them somehow.

 

[TurboBucket]

I'm wondering if this post is real or just trying to troll. What should be the purpose of batteries for growing?

That's why I hadn't bothered to touch it. Guy either doesn't get it or just wants to goad people on.

 

[KingJoe83]

What about solar power lights ?

Even indoor somehow ?
Like a sensor cord you can run outside ?

Damn smart thinking here

 

[GatorGumbo]

I don't think it's a troll post, if it is then it has sparked a good discussion. The advantage of batteries in relation to solar power is titanic, and for that reason I see a viable aspect of utility for grow lights. Who here hasn't wished for a solar panel to power their grow lights? I know people who live with no electricity and all the lights in their house run off car batteries they charge up from a generator or with a solar farm at friend's house.

There are also different types of batteries, high capacity and high discharge are basically the two specializations. If we wanted to run a 1kW lamp at 9 amps for an hour it would cost 1kWh of the battery's charge. Let's say the battery is from a Volt (car) and has a 35kWh capacity. If the battery is designed to proper spec for the job (it probably isn't but let's imagine) then that's 35 hours of charge to power the lamp. The battery takes less than half that to fully charge.

Why hasn't anyone done it yet, then? Because it's a single utility product, really the only reason anyone would have it is in case of power outages. It would also be astronomically expensive to produce, which isn't a problem for some folks in America, but for a company selling it I doubt there are enough "whales" to float the entire enterprise. So in my mind it makes sense widely if you're willing to buy a cheap new car and then drive it off a cliff for those times the power goes out, and for some unknown reason you couldn't just use the sun and flashlights to keep from dicking the light cycle.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I'm wondering if this post is real or just trying to troll.

Some days, around here, that's kind of difficult to figure out. And I don't mean that in a bad way, lol, but... Smoke a little bud, the brain starts revving up, and many thoughts are produced. Smoke a lot of bud and, well, the brain is still revved up - but someone forgot to engage the clutch.

Besides, when it's not hateful, the line between "troll post" and "I'm bored, let's all jabber about..." becomes pretty blurry. This is at least 3% more enjoyable than just sitting here wishing I had work today.

I mean.. You use battery when you have no access to electricity, but when you do have the access, you use rather electricity...

I'm bad about it, sometimes, too (using terms badly). But just for clarification, you are using the term "electricity" here to mean that which is delivered by the municipal grid, right?

Also why would you add another segment into the chain?

That's the number one issue, as far as I'm concerned. Not that there aren't several others (including, for the bulk of the population, "Why?"), but for most people it's just a way to waste the very thing that the OP is concerned with - electricity. Perhaps, therefore, we should approach this pipe-dream logically, as a technical exercise. In which case, step one would be:

Invent a room-temperature superconductor.

OP, when you solve that one, contact me and I'll list the next few steps. After solving step #1, they'll all be easy .

What about solar power lights ?

I had a solar-powered flashlight. Worked like a treat until it got dark .

My buddy, on the other hand, had a solar-powered grow light. It was called... a skylight .

Yeah, just being facetious.

I don't think it's a troll post, if it is then it has sparked a good discussion.

Buh-duh CHING. Nice bit of paronomasia.

The advantage of batteries in relation to solar power is titanic, and for that reason I see a viable aspect of utility for grow lights. Who here hasn't wished for a solar panel to power their grow lights? I know people who live with no electricity and all the lights in their house run off car batteries they charge up from a generator or with a solar farm at friend's house.

I know a guy (only one) who lived off-grid for about two years. He had a diesel-powered generator and a (small) bank of deep-cycle batteries. He also learned to get by with a few low-powered 12V lights and to eat a lot of non-perishable food items. Because... outrageously expensive electricity cost.

There are also different types of batteries, high capacity and high discharge are basically the two specializations. If we wanted to run a 1kW lamp at 9 amps for an hour it would cost 1kWh of the battery's charge. Let's say the battery is from a Volt (car) and has a 35kWh capacity. If the battery is designed to proper spec for the job (it probably isn't but let's imagine) then that's 35 hours of charge to power the lamp. The battery takes less than half that to fully charge.

You can buy one of those and, I suppose, do whatever your mad-scientist gene tells you to. The GM part number is 24285978.

Only costs $15,734.29, lol. I can get a house for about $10K. Not a great house, it needs some roof repair - but it's not condemned, is actually not in a bad neighborhood, it's got three bedrooms, the city would probably work with me on the initial taxes in order to get someone local to own the thing... and it would leave me a couple thousand bucks for electricity.

Or I could buy a really big bag of bud. Which would, of course, run eventually run out - but it might last as long as the battery pack could be expected to . Depending on how it was grown, it might have significantly less environmental impact than the battery pack, too.

Come to think of it, if I really wanted solar-powered lights (and had a bunch of cash laying around that I didn't feel like putting towards bills / food / surviving the coming Winter's zero-income period), I'd go buy a solar-powered electrical generation and storage kit. That stuff has been available for decades now and has the advantage of not being exclusively tied to a grow light.

Or I could build a greenhouse and use The Original Solar Light. Since I'd presumably be living off-grid somewhere, and would want to be able to grow more than cannabis. Not exactly a viable solution for city-dwellers, but they just walk over to the nearest wall and plug their light into the electrical outlet.

Or do what the lady who lives out in the boonies and has an adult son with severe medical issues to take care of does, buy a natural gas-powered generator, hook it up to the gas supply, and install an automatic transfer switch or whatever they're called. Unlike the local electrical grid, the last time we had a service interruption in our gas supply was... Well, I cannot say, "Never," because I'm less than 50 years old - but at least not for decades. Those things are nice (albeit expensive, but...) - and the neighbors don't mind the noise when it's five below zero (F), the electricity has gone off, and your house is the only one that's both warm and illuminated.

 

[Blew Hiller]

The answer, of course, is we already have them. I make power via solar and I have the capability to store power in batteries and use that energy when I see fit. (If thread starter meant something different than this, the question needed to be more specific).

Battery technology should be much better (we put people on the moon, right?) yet the main reason is demand. Most people think daily, maybe monthly, but not generationally when it comes to basic utilities. I essentially pre-paid for my power for the next 10-15 years (depending on fluctuating rates, etc) and that comforts me.

I also have the option to send/sell back my overflow generated power to the electric company for a credit (since we still use them as needed).

I'll keep this short because I could on (and on). I am a big proponent of solar...

 

[TorturedSoul]

I make power via solar and I have the capability to store power in batteries and use that energy when I see fit.

How is the payoff looking? By that, I mean, do you expect to have spent less on the equipment (plus either installation costs or a reasonable rate for your labor if you self-installed) during the equipment's useful lifetime than you'd end up spending on the amount of electricity that you will have produced?

I realize that there are reasons for going with solar other than just whether or not it can save a person money - but cost (and the possibility for loss) is still something that's going to end up being a consideration for many people.

Battery technology should be much better

Considering that the things have been around since 1800 - or 1745 if you count the Leyden jar as a battery (although that's more of a capacitor than a battery), or... many centuries ago if you consider the "Baghdad Battery" to be a battery (but that is really a stretch)... You are correct.

I was surprised to learn, when I read a bit about the Detroit Electric vehicle, that the owners of the very few surviving examples have issues if/when they try to drive them. Specifically, I read that modern batteries are heavier and less efficient than they were when those vehicles were being produced, lol. I guess the range suffers (capacity issue?) - and that people end up adding significantly more weight to the vehicle in order to attempt to compensate for this, which further shortens the effective range (and is hard on the rather elderly vehicles in general) .

we put people on the moon, right?

[RANT]Sure. But not since December 11, 1972. And I've read that it would take about ten years for us (the USA) to do it again. That's if we wanted to actually land them there and if we wanted them to be able to return safely to Terra, of course. But that presupposes that we'd somehow manage to - reliably and consistently - fund NASA with ~5% of our federal budget for that amount of time (currently, NASA's share of the budgetary pie is .5%, or approximately one tenth of what it needs to be, and hasn't been consistently high since Kennedy got mad/embarrassed at the USSR and decided to play the "me first!" game). So... Never, I suppose.

There's some possibility that a non-governmental entity could manage to do it. But if it's someone like Elon Musk, lol, I sure as <BLEEP> wouldn't go along for the ride - since the SOB has been known to use his customers to unknowingly beta-test certain "little things" on his vehicles... such as the braking system .

Now the PRC, on the other hand... Will probably end up owning (in practical terms) Luna and, if there ends up being a reason, colonizing and mining it, in 15 years or slightly less. After all, China is the only country that is likely to produce a real super heavy-lift vehicle with the ability to actually get the required cargo there. (See: Long March rocket family.) Our Saturn V rockets - which is how we got to Luna decades ago - are nothing but a fading memory, now. And I doubt that we'd be able to actually produce the things with this country's current political "reality." We have too many douche-bag politicians who insist on having such things built in their constituencies' locations (for the political... whatchamacallit, points?) - and our current infrastructure / transport system is such that it's not really physically possible to transport such large items to the launch sites (FFS!). Of course these politicos would never vote to have the things built in a location that is reasonably close to the places they'd need to be launched from , so that there wouldn't be mountains/tunnels between the build site and their actual site of use. F*cking politicians... They ought to make the act of running for political office an automatic disqualification from being able to be elected. Just put every adult's name into a randomizer and draw names, lol - it's not like they would end up being worse at governing the country and its citizens.[/RANT]

 

[Blew Hiller]

How is the payoff looking? By that, I mean, do you expect to have spent less on the equipment (plus either installation costs or a reasonable rate for your labor if you self-installed) during the equipment's useful lifetime than you'd end up spending on the amount of electricity that you will have produced? I realize that there are reasons for going with solar other than just whether or not it can save a person money - but cost (and the possibility for loss) is still something that's going to end up being a consideration for many people.

Short answer is ...great! "Worth" is subjective. The tangible (lights, power) and intangible (knowing I'll have lights when others don't) definitely are worth it...to me.

I didn't install solar to save money...while it's economically sound on paper (my equipment is warrantied for 25 years and I'll get my ROI in 12-15 depending) it's also the right thing to do. I was able, so I did. All the arguments against solar are cost...I get not everyone has $10k to throw at it. But how often do people already have their bonus/tax return spent on stupid shit (new car, clothes) when they could instead guarantee a power source for their family for decades? Most people don't dare to think that far and they definitely don't want to think what if the power goes off...for good. Don't even get me started on fresh water...

My Moon Analogy was said thinking of my old engineer friend (who worked on that project)....he said "with an unlimited budget, anything is possible". As a planet we have access to free power from fusion reactor...if it was raining wine, everybody would have buckets outside, right?

 

[TorturedSoul]

My RoI would be longer, because most of my electric bills are around $50/month or less.

This is just a hypothetical discussion for me (my last tax refund was $63, lol), but I suppose others reading this thread might actually be able to afford solar-powered electricity generation, so it's good to know about that. I don't know whether or not it's still available, but the federal government - and many states - were giving people tax breaks for installing such things.

I kind of wish I had geothermal heating/cooling.

I'd say, "With an unlimited budget, unlimited time, and some unknown amount of really good luck, many things are possible." But I understand your point.

If it was raining wine, governments all around the world would make it a crime to carry buckets (et cetera) outside during rainstorms .

Oh, and I'll offer... a mild apology for my earlier "moon rant." I just happen to consider the development of "space technology" to be rather important to us. Aside from the finite amount of natural resources on one planet, our more or less out of control population growth... Well, when we have the ability to make the planet mostly uninhabitable (in practical terms) for Homo sapiens, following an "all your eggs in one basket" strategy seems to me to be the ultimate in foolishness.

 

[Blew Hiller]

My RoI would be longer, because most of my electric bills are around $50/month or less.

This is just a hypothetical discussion for me (my last tax refund was $63, lol), but I suppose others reading this thread might actually be able to afford solar-powered electricity generation, so it's good to know about that. I don't know whether or not it's still available, but the federal government - and many states - were giving people tax breaks for installing such things.

I kind of wish I had geothermal heating/cooling.

I'd say, "With an unlimited budget, unlimited time, and some unknown amount of really good luck, many things are possible." But I understand your point.

If it was raining wine, governments all around the world would make it a crime to carry buckets (et cetera) outside during rainstorms .

Oh, and I'll offer... a mild apology for my earlier "moon rant." I just happen to consider the development of "space technology" to be rather important to us. Aside from the finite amount of natural resources on one planet, our more or less out of control population growth... Well, when we have the ability to make the planet mostly uninhabitable (in practical terms) for Homo sapiens, following an "all your eggs in one basket" strategy seems to me to be the ultimate in foolishness.

Well, just like food, they can triple the price of electric tomorrow...and many have no choice but to pay. The fact that power utilities, across the nation, fight so hard against any solar consumer concessions just reinforces my resolve .

And yes, the Federal Energy Tax Credit is effective until 12/31/2019 (30% credit against all solar purchases...including batteries)

 

[Dwight Monk]

I didn't install solar to save money...while it's economically sound on paper (my equipment is warrantied for 25 years and I'll get my ROI in 12-15 depending) it's also the right thing to do. I was able, so I did.

Do they have the batteries lasting that long now? I haven't really looked at it in years, but it used to be the cost of everything made ROI tough to ever hit (depends how much sun you get where you are too I suppose) and the major plus side was you weren't burning something to make electricity and adding pollution to the environment. As the batteries aren't cheap, which is one of the major reasons electric cars are so expensive and I have read that those batteries the expected battery life is under 5 years.