480W & 720W LED Grow - Land of Clovers

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Look at those sexy Ladies hmmm Yummy

thanks brother

 

[HorseBadoritz]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Splendid Irish, just splendid.

Your ways are true to how marijuana should be grown indoors, a little more dirt in the equation and your rocking exactly what I want in future setups.
(Have you experimented with adding soil to coco?)

Just sold my Nikon D5000 I should of hit you up. Have you tried turning the sharpness up to max with a picture edit program? I did that the other night on an old picture and it really makes Any and Every crystal shine off the picture. Ill post a pic if you wanna see what I mean...

High Outdoorsman, I'm running most of my plants with 2 parts coco to 1 part Fafard container soil on top of 2 1/2" of perlite in 10l hempy buckets. The girls seem to like it, but then they don't really know any better

 

[medicine21]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Hey medicine21,

Either your trying to pull one on me or you misread my e-mail to you and if thats the case I deeply apologize for any offense you might take to this post. I will post my e-mail correspondence medicine21 with so he and everyone else doing research on led's where I stand with my products and knows what I really said in the e-mail replies. I think everyone on the threads and those who have talked to me personally know I would never make such false claims.

Here's medicine21 sent me:

Message:

I am looking to replace 4x1000W covering TWO 4x8' tables, basically an 8x8' area.
Which of your lights would give me same or better results as 4x1000W in this space?


Here is what i replied back with:

"We can go with four of my spectra 280w panels per 4x8 tray or depending if you want to use less wattage I would recommend using two of my Spectra 450w panels per 4x8 tray either way you go you will at the very lest match your hps with yield and in my opinion beat it with quality but myself and my customers are seeing a 20% to 30% increase in yield watt for watt with the led vs hps/mh and the quality is always better with my led's. The difference between the 4x280w panels and 2x450w panels is going to be about 8% in overall yield because of the coverage of the 4x280w but i assure you if you got a green thumb and you know what your doing and familiar with the plant strains you grow you will beat the hps either way.

I am not sure how I could've read that in any other way than 1X450 or 2X280W LED = 1000W HPS, but I appreciate you stepping in and clarifying this.

ok apparently there's still a missinderstanding.. what I recommended is that four of my 280w panels will replace one 1000w hps or two of my 450w panels to replace one of 1000w hps.

I guess I was living the dream that I could reduce the power costs and match the results of HPS with LEDs. Since the official, post clarification, claim is 1W LED = 1W HPS, the only benefits left that I see are less work for my AC and longer lasting lights.

 

[jdizzle22]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

I am not sure how I could've read that in any other way than 1X450 or 2X280W LED = 1000W HPS, but I appreciate you stepping in and clarifying this.



I guess I was living the dream that I could reduce the power costs and match the results of HPS with LEDs. Since the official, post clarification, claim is 1W LED = 1W HPS, the only benefits left that I see are less work for my AC and longer lasting lights.

Well you will save power from not having to run as much air conditioning, or having to use powerful fans to exhaust just the HID heat, or running a ballast and possibly a fan for that. And you should grow more with a good LED light than an HID of = wattage (well wattage of the LED light and its built in fans) its just hard to quantify how much more especially depending on the growing style (SOG or SCROG or vert or etc)

A good 400w LED should grow more than a 400w HID. Would a good 300w LED grow more than a 400w HID? I don't think it always would but I bet the best ones can.

 

[GrowLEDHydro]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Well you will save power from not having to run as much air conditioning, or having to use powerful fans to exhaust just the HID heat, or running a ballast and possibly a fan for that. And you should grow more with a good LED light than an HID of = wattage (well wattage of the LED light and its built in fans) its just hard to quantify how much more especially depending on the growing style (SOG or SCROG or vert or etc)

A good 400w LED should grow more than a 400w HID. Would a good 300w LED grow more than a 400w HID? I don't think it always would but I bet the best ones can.

Here is a grow done by 420 magazine and a great grower Setting Sun

300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

My Spectra 300 (true draw 360w 2010 version) vs. 400w HPS

My Spectra LED from what I remember out yielded the 400w HPS by over 50 grams and from what SS said the quality was higher.

So their are savings. I always said that watt for watt my panels would out yield HPS by 20% to 30% and with little radiant heat, much easier heat management and always higher quality.

To medicine21,

Their are saving with LED's you just really have to ready and educate yourself on them. I would really recommend you read the link I just posted.

 

[THCScientist]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Hello irish boy, been lurking and tryin to get caught up on your grow. I think the jacks look like chron chron too fam. wasnt here for the start but hope you'll have me for the rest. I'm subscribed brother. Now i'll stand to your left incase you pass that spliff.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Hello irish boy, been lurking and tryin to get caught up on your grow. I think the jacks look like chron chron too fam. wasnt here for the start but hope you'll have me for the rest. I'm subscribed brother. Now i'll stand to your left incase you pass that spliff.

oh ya brother theirs always more room. welcome my friend.

i wont pass my spliff but i will roll you your own very soon my friend i will be smoking on this Jack, my mouth waters as i wait. i am thinking about another week or so left.

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

i will say this again, leds are not for beating HPS with 1/2 the watts. leds are for growing with less heat, to save a little money on power not a whole lot, but mainly to grow better quality meds. its also nice not having to run ducting to the hoods and all that stuff i dont miss with my old HPS setup.lol.

 

[og crusader]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

LED's, while costly up front, will actually save you money over the long term. How? Here's how. Lets say you only care about watts spinning on your electric meter...(usually what most people care about first and formost). So you are trying to decide between a Spectra 450 and a 400 watt HPS (actual draw is closer to 435-450 watts) with the digital Ballast (most efficient, runs quieter, easier starts on the bulbs, etc) A 400 watt HPS setup with cooled reflector will cost you $70 for a decent bulb, $155 for the ballast, $20.00 for the ducting in and out of the reflector, and $120 for the cooled reflector. Lets not be cheap here, we are going for quality afterall. So for the 400 watt setup you are now in it for a measily $350.00. We are not going to count the exhaust fan or anything else in the equation because you are still going to need one regardless. Just the lights itself. So you think $350 vs $1300 for the Spectra...cool, I'm saving a grand and it will be the same end result.

But what many people do not factor in is the fact that you will be replacing your bulb at least once a year. So lets say the LED panels only last 6 years. Ok, so for those 6 years, you are spending an additional $350 on bulbs for those 6 years. Cost is now $700.00. Ok, still $600.00 less than the spectras. Now factor in a 20% increase in yield over HPS because the LED's create plants with tighter, denser internoding, less stretch, heartier growth, and an overall quality of medicine that is better because you do not have the thc destroying radiant bulb heat saturating the plants, thus resin and crystal production to increase, meaning FROSTIER medicine. So, with a 20% increase in yield, the spectra 450 performs closer to a 600 watt HPS than a 400 watt HPS, so in effect you are getting more for your money. Over time, that 20% increase in output will MORE than make up for the difference in upfront costs.

Now, factor in the savings on your A/C bill during the summer, and you are really moving ahead.

Think about it.

And seriously, these LED companies can hide behind their smoke and mirrors math, when the bottom line that all anyone cares about is:

HOW MUCH POWER AM I PAYING FOR, AND HOW MUCH WILL THAT YIELD ME.

Simple...Nothing else matters. Not wavelengths of light, not type of chip, not how much power the chips are using compared to their rated specs, none of it. It is the single most important factor in choosing a light. Yes, the other factors are nice to be educated about, but it all comes down to how fast my power meter is spinning and what that's going to get me.

I have to say thanks to Mike for rating his lights based on actual draw. Nothing deceptive about it!

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

nice post
+reps for talking the time and typing that out for others to see.

 

[Setting Sun]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Here is a grow done by 420 magazine and a great grower Setting Sun

300W LED vs. 400W HID Demonstration

My Spectra 300 (true draw 360w 2010 version) vs. 400w HPS

My Spectra LED from what I remember out yielded the 400w HPS by over 50 grams and from what SS said the quality was higher.

So their are savings. I always said that watt for watt my panels would out yield HPS by 20% to 30% and with little radiant heat, much easier heat management and always higher quality.

To medicine21,

Their are saving with LED's you just really have to ready and educate yourself on them. I would really recommend you read the link I just posted.

Hi Mike,

I appreciate you referencing my grow and your kind words, and again would like to thank you for generously donating one of your panels for that revealing comparison.

I would like to make a correction to the above in that the difference in yield between LED and HID was 16g.

"quality" is a subjective thing, as it means we assign value to something, and what I value may not be the same as what someone else values.

What I value is defined by what I want/need, and as I'm a medical marijuana patient before anything else, I want/need a final product that primarily helps me with my medical issues.

Not that I have no appreciation for other aspects of this herb, but I came back to growing because I desperately needed to get off opiate pain meds, not as a connoisseur interested in wine and cheese parties, so that's the perspective I'm coming from when I assign value.

I've been smoking both sets of buds now for a while, and have noted some consistencies.

The LED buds from this grow have a moderately stronger effect than the HID buds, and the effect also lasts about an hour longer. So for my back pain and ADD/OCD, the LED buds have more value to me, and no doubt also to other medical marijuana patients.

Bag appeal, aroma, taste, etc., are criteria of less import to me, although certainly not unimportant, but these are also completely subjective, so I'll list my impressions, and you can assign your own values.

Appearance:

There is a difference in the shade of green, with the LED buds being darker green than the HID buds. The LED buds have slightly smaller gland heads on their trichs, but their number of trichs is greater, and they sparkle a little more than the HID buds.

The LED buds appear a little tighter after the cure. At harvest, I described that the HID buds had a lower calyx/leaf ratio, and that the LED buds took me longer to manicure because they had more of these velvety little sugar leaves. Since these sugar leaves were heavily encrusted with trichs, I don't believe this has any negative effect on potency, and who knows, it may be one of the reasons the LED buds are somewhat stronger in effect.

In any case, I'm talking about appearance, not potency, and the LED buds, after some cure time, look more solid than the HID buds, even though mass and weight are close to equal.

Aroma and taste:

Maybe I'm not quite as discerning as some, but they smell and taste very similar to me.

Any perceived differences are so subtle that I can't be sure if it's just my imagination, so I'll just leave it at that.

Feelability:

you gotta squeeze the Charmin

The LED buds look a little tighter and also feel a little tighter and denser than the HID buds, although again, weights are almost identical, so don't go there.

The HID buds were stickier at harvest, the LED buds are slightly stickier after the cure. It's a subtle difference, but if you're sensitive to stuff like that, you'd probably notice.

___________________________________________


All of the above "connoisseur" criteria, as I mentioned, comes secondary to medicinal value for me.

Out of all the stuff I mentioned outside of medicinal value, the only thing I value about the HID buds over the LED is their lighter color, but since that lasts about 1/2 second in the bowl, it's not something of significant value to me.

what do *you* value?

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

very nice write up SS, thanks for taking the time to share that info with us. everyone has their own opinions and values of their meds, so i understand its really hard to speak for others. all that matters is what you like and what suites your needs better.

great post brother. +reps if i can?

 

[og crusader]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Thanks Sun for that. Also, even though you only got 16 g's more, your 400 watter was drawing more than 400 watts, probably closer to 435-450 watts vs 360 from the spectra. Thats 20% less power used to make basically the same amount. It all adds up!

Irish, so glad you took Mikes challenge and showed us how a scientific approach doesn't lie.

 

[GrowLEDHydro]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

Hi Mike,

I appreciate you referencing my grow and your kind words, and again would like to thank you for generously donating one of your panels for that revealing comparison.

I would like to make a correction to the above in that the difference in yield between LED and HID was 16g.

"quality" is a subjective thing, as it means we ascribe value to something, and what I value may not be the same as what someone else values.

What I value is defined by what I want/need, and as I'm a medical marijuana patient before anything else, I want/need a final product that primarily helps me with my medical issues.

Not that I have no appreciation for other aspects of this herb, but I came back to growing because I desperately needed to get off opiate pain meds, not as a connoisseur interested in wine and cheese parties, so that's the perspective I'm coming from when I ascribe value.

I've been smoking both sets of buds now for a while, and have noted some consistencies.

The LED buds from this grow have a moderately stronger effect than the HID buds, and the effect also lasts about an hour longer. So for my back pain and ADD/OCD, the LED buds have more value to me, and no doubt also to other medical marijuana patients.

Bag appeal, aroma, taste, etc., are criteria of less import to me, although certainly not unimportant, but these are also completely subjective, so I'll list my impressions, and you can assign your own values.

Appearance:

There is a difference in the shade of green, with the LED buds being darker green than the HID buds. The LED buds have slightly smaller gland heads on their trichs, but their number of trichs is greater, and they sparkle a little more than the HID buds.

The LED buds appear a little tighter after the cure. At harvest, I described that the HID buds had a lower calyx/leaf ratio, and that the LED buds took me longer to manicure because they had more of these velvety little sugar leaves. Since these sugar leaves were heavily encrusted with trichs, I don't believe this has any negative effect on potency, and who knows, it may be one of the reasons the LED buds are somewhat stronger in effect.

In any case, I'm talking about appearance, not potency, and the LED buds, after some cure time, look more solid than the HID buds, even though mass and weight are close to equal.

Aroma and taste:

Maybe I'm not quite as discerning as some, but they smell and taste very similar to me.

Any perceived differences are so subtle that I can't be sure if it's just my imagination, so I'll just leave it at that.

Feelability:

you gotta squeeze the Charmin

The LED buds look a little tighter and also feel a little tighter and denser than the HID buds, although again, weights are almost identical, so don't go there.

The HID buds were stickier at harvest, the LED buds are slightly stickier after the cure. It's a subtle difference, but if you're sensitive to stuff like that, you'd probably notice.

___________________________________________


All of the above "connoisseur" criteria, as I mentioned, comes secondary to medicinal value for me.

Out of all the stuff I mentioned outside of medicinal value, the only thing I value about the HID buds over the LED is their lighter color, but since that lasts about 1/2 second in the bowl, it's not something of significant value to me.

what do *you* value?

Thank you for the clearification SS. this whole time I had 50g in my head. Either way great information and great grow..

looking forward to the next one!!

 

[wannabgreen]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

hi irish and all, i'm a big fan of doing your own homework when deciding to buy something expensive and would like to think that most folks are but we all know some folks just dont get it-they will spend cash and get p'd off when they realize they got screwed even though they did no pre buying homework.
i have for close to 6 months now have had a hardon for a pair spectras but everytime i email mike to see if theres n e used 1s theres usually not-the 1 time he had some used at the same time i had the cash to invest, my car tooka crap on me and there went my cash-i hope he doesnt get mad bout me contacting once a month to c if there are used spectras available, but unless i get back to work soon i'm gonna have to wait it out for used. to me there is no other choice than than mikes spectras if going led, as was stated by diff people earlier there is no way i will fork out this kinda money without proof of the claims and mikes are the only reasonable claims i have seen when it comes to leds, and just the sincerity, politeness and honesty not to mention willingness to answer and or explain questions i have encountered when researching and contacting him along with your grows, his own and other glh journals on here have sold me--someday i will have spectras--to me it seems that at least for a couple years mikes lights will be the leader in led grow lights-and possibly forever if he keeps up with the r&d and updating to the newest parts whenever he can, he has surely shown he is willing to invest into upgrading when new or updated parts come out--he could of redone the lights for 2011 and left them alone but he updated to 3rd generation b4 his website was even updated to his 2nd generation--that speaks to me as a consumer and it tells me hes commited to his buisness and trying to make a differance in the lighting world, maybe a little slow getting the site updated but thats becuz the lights are being gone over to be able to list more info about them, im not one who needs all the technical info-i have no desire to overwork my brain the few hours each day that its capable--to me its power useage and weight/quality thats all my brain wants to hear and that has been proven here glh style time and time again to be atleast as good as hid and usually better- i also love the fact that he himself has grown our beloved plants and therefore has a personal interest other than making money invested into his product, and his willingness to donate lights for comparisons also speaks to me(just wish it coulda been me gettin em for an honest grow journal) that tells me that he is not trying to hide anything which is why even b4 your 1st glh grow was done(bout halfway thro bloom) i decided i was ready to buy and i get itchier everyday to get my own spectras--now if i can just get a job or stop drooling over you guys bud porn long enough to sell some crap on the eba y i'll also be pimping some spectras

 

[wannabgreen]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

shoulda mentioned i have only ever grown outside and the spectras will be my 1st ever grow lights for my indoor dreams

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

hi irish and all, i'm a big fan of doing your own homework when deciding to buy something expensive and would like to think that most folks are but we all know some folks just dont get it-they will spend cash and get p'd off when they realize they got screwed even though they did no pre buying homework.
i have for close to 6 months now have had a hardon for a pair spectras but everytime i email mike to see if theres n e used 1s theres usually not-the 1 time he had some used at the same time i had the cash to invest, my car tooka crap on me and there went my cash-i hope he doesnt get mad bout me contacting once a month to c if there are used spectras available, but unless i get back to work soon i'm gonna have to wait it out for used. to me there is no other choice than than mikes spectras if going led, as was stated by diff people earlier there is no way i will fork out this kinda money without proof of the claims and mikes are the only reasonable claims i have seen when it comes to leds, and just the sincerity, politeness and honesty not to mention willingness to answer and or explain questions i have encountered when researching and contacting him along with your grows, his own and other glh journals on here have sold me--someday i will have spectras--to me it seems that at least for a couple years mikes lights will be the leader in led grow lights-and possibly forever if he keeps up with the r&d and updating to the newest parts whenever he can, he has surely shown he is willing to invest into upgrading when new or updated parts come out--he could of redone the lights for 2011 and left them alone but he updated to 3rd generation b4 his website was even updated to his 2nd generation--that speaks to me as a consumer and it tells me hes commited to his buisness and trying to make a differance in the lighting world, maybe a little slow getting the site updated but thats becuz the lights are being gone over to be able to list more info about them, im not one who needs all the technical info-i have no desire to overwork my brain the few hours each day that its capable--to me its power useage and weight/quality thats all my brain wants to hear and that has been proven here glh style time and time again to be atleast as good as hid and usually better- i also love the fact that he himself has grown our beloved plants and therefore has a personal interest other than making money invested into his product, and his willingness to donate lights for comparisons also speaks to me(just wish it coulda been me gettin em for an honest grow journal) that tells me that he is not trying to hide anything which is why even b4 your 1st glh grow was done(bout halfway thro bloom) i decided i was ready to buy and i get itchier everyday to get my own spectras--now if i can just get a job or stop drooling over you guys bud porn long enough to sell some crap on the eba y i'll also be pimping some spectras

this is the reason why i decided to give leds another chance was because of Mikes honesty. this mean allot to me.

Now what lights are you looking for? might be able to help you out with this depending on what mikes wants to do wit them? but i will be trading out my 2011 (1st gen) 240w lights two of them basically brand new. and my two older (2010) 360w leds with the glass out. i am having a hard time pulling them out because ive grown to love those lights and i keep trying to hold back on getting rid of them.lol. their my baby's and treated me so well. but they will go sooner or later once Mike has the funds to swap those out, witch is cool because i am not in a hurry.lol.. but if you want one i can talk to mike and see what he wants to do and maybe you can get 1st offer at them. you can PM me every moth if you want. but think the 2011 240w lights are going to be taken out pretty soon.

 

[wannabgreen]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

now that the wattage numbers have changed i get little confused but the 240's are basically the old 180's with the 1st 2011 upgrade correct ?
if i remember correctly originally
they were 120 180 300 600 i was intereseted in the 180's a pair of them-but once i seen the prices had gone up i was doomed to the smallest or used -not that i dont like the bigger panels but want 2keep the option to divide up into 2 seperate small rooms---actually would start off with a 1 panel grow to try to get used to the indoor thing-before going full on both lights in bigger room, possibly at that time maybe seeing if i could trade up also, but only would trade in one of the small panels so id be still be able to do 2 rooms seperatly--1 for just making my own femd seeds and the other for meds

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

now that the wattage numbers have changed i get little confused but the 240's are basically the old 180's with the 1st 2011 upgrade correct ?
if i remember correctly originally
they were 120 180 300 600 i was intereseted in the 180's a pair of them-but once i seen the prices had gone up i was doomed to the smallest or used -not that i dont like the bigger panels but want 2keep the option to divide up into 2 seperate small rooms---actually would start off with a 1 panel grow to try to get used to the indoor thing-before going full on both lights in bigger room, possibly at that time maybe seeing if i could trade up also, but only would trade in one of the small panels so id be still be able to do 2 rooms seperatly--1 for just making my own femd seeds and the other for meds

yup the 180w went to 240w then to 280w, but i have two of the 240w. and two off the 300w witch was really 360w its confusing.lol

 

[IrishBoy]

re: 480W & 720W Grow LED Hydro - Land Of Clovers

here some more bud porn while i was messing around with the camera. I just you guys to take look at the pic and under the fan leaf to see how caked the frost is under the leaf.