I actually don't know how old they are. Years. And not kept in a fridge.
Right now they are all on wet paper towel, and don't smell great. 6 cracked and had a root tip emerge but not develop. I took those 6 and did a little test – I planted 2 as a control; I planted 2 with a little myco in the hole; and I planted 2 after dipping in IBA (rooting gel). I am keeping hot water bottles in the cupboard, so the temperature is fluctuating between 72 and 80.
Are you talking about fresh seed or very old seed that hasn't been stored properly? 'Cuz I'm dealing with the latter.
I can find a lot of edu articles on the fact that it's better to germ newer than old, but this seems to be the best explanation of why (assuming it's accurate):
Thanks. This probably explains why the seed will open, and have a root tip, but the tip doesn't grow – it has some DNA damage. If the damage can be repaired, it will grow.
Why not try every tool in the shed?
OK, so maybe there's another theoretical possibility here, and that is, old seed that is still very much alive, but water is not penetrating the seed coat.
Please raise your hand if you have experience overcoming this by scuffing the seed coat. If you raised your hand, did you scuff, soak, and plant – or did you scuff, soak, and germinate on paper towel first?
All of the seed I germinated in my other thread (Quest for mold-resistant strains) ... they all sank to the bottom. Most all of that seed was lively, and they sprouted just fine.
OK. But I may do the half-and-half experiment, just for fun.
I'm a noob, and I hate to be the bearer of bad paraphrasing--and I am only regurgitating / paraphrasing what I read on the Royal Queen Seeds' website (I can find the article if you really need, but). Anyway, the point was that seeds are kind of like batteries. They get so many crank cycles before they won't crank any more. And each time they are exposed to light and warmth, they can go into crank cycle (startup, boot cycle). And each time the battery gets a little weaker. To paraphrase, if seeds are properly stored away from light and warmth, ideally in foil and bag in bag in a vegetable drawer, you can get maybe 5 years pretty reliably, and often years longer than that. HOWEVER if they are stored in an open bowl in the fridge and get exposed to light every time the door opens and Junior is midnight snacking in the fridge, this can start their cycle, and soon they are out of fuel. Same thing happens if stored in sunlight. That is a total paraphrase, but I hope that helps give some perspective (and I say that as a science guy).OK, so maybe there's another theoretical possibility here, and that is, old seed that is still very much alive, but water is not penetrating the seed coat.
If this theory is correct, then perhaps scuffing isn't necessary at all – just soak, plant, and be patient.
I could scuff 1/2 of them, re-soak, and plant. The other half, just plant them now. I would be careful to keep them moist. If none emerge, when should I give up? One week? Thanks.
Thanks. My understanding is that it's water and warmth, and that seeds are best germinated in a dark environment. I.e. if you are doing paper towel, then dark environment. If not, then they are buried in the soil, hence dark. Once they emerge, then light.
Yeah. I get it. That is what I used to think also. Anyway, it may not be a definitive scientific study, but if Royal Queen Seeds is to be believed:
OK, but I was just letting you know sinking didn't affect the outcome negatively, that I know of. I did poke them down, but not because of any certain knowledge of anything.
Does this mean that the 150-200 seeds I have now on paper towel... they all sank, so enough moisture reached beneath the seed coat? Hence, no sense in scuffing them?
OK, I was talking germination... you are talking storage. I get it... but, I had no control over the storage of the seeds in this thread. I'm just trying to germinate them if possible. I doesn't look good.
My condolences.
If they sink for me before they show some leg, I always pour out some of the water so they're closer to O2 which they need as much as moisture. Some growers swear by hydrogen peroxide which serves two purposes. It adds oxygen to the water and helps kill off pathogens.
Yeah, scuffing is to let moisture in which sounds like it has already happened. And too aggressive scuffing can harm the seed kernel which you want to avoid.
Interesting that they suggest much lower temps than I use. They suggest 71ish but I've had better success closer to 80.
