Electrical Wiring Help Needed Please

[buzz62]

You don’t want to parallel your main for another panel. Highly illegal also.

If you change the main panel they will have to pull the meter. This can run into permitting issues and Electrical licensing.

I guess I was talking about a more rural setting. I have three legal and permitted 100 amp services pulling off of my meter for my house, a shop, and another outbuilding. And It is definitely work for an electrician as I mentioned above, who at least in Canada wouldn't dare work without a permit!

 

[Buds Buddy]

You don’t want to parallel your main for another panel. Highly illegal also.

If you change the main panel they will have to pull the meter. This can run into permitting issues and Electrical licensing.

Ok, I'm going to do the sub panel & move breakers to it from old panel like you suggested. This Sub Panel will only be a 4 Slot. Two Slots for the Breakers I move & Two Slots for the Shed. Now I want to keep the Breakers I move at the 15 Amps but still want to have at least 40 Amps going to the Shed. So do I put a 50 Amp Breaker in the Main Box & a 15 Amp & 40 Amp Breaker in the Sub Panel ? I was going to use either No 4 or 6 wire to wire the main box to the sub panel & then No 6 wire to another breaker box that controls everything in the shed on 4 15 Amp Breakers.. Not sure if I need 4/2 or 4/3 or 6/2 or 6/3 with Ground. How do you determine this ?
I already have 14/2 with Ground for the lights & 12/2 with ground for the outlets, all new outlets, switches, outlet boxes, covers, & light fixtures. I'll be starting on this project soon.

 

[TurboBucket]

I'll say it one more time for effect. If you have to ask these questions, you really need to ask yourself is this worth it?

These are pretty basic electrical questions, if you don't know this, or at least how to determine these things, is it safe for you to do this work?

I mean number of conductors is pretty basic stuff. Can you crimp a wire terminal? I thought you were pretty handy when you said you were building a rotating garden.

Just hate to see someone get hurt trying to save a couple bucks.

 

[Buds Buddy]

I'll say it one more time for effect. If you have to ask these questions, you really need to ask yourself is this worth it?

These are pretty basic electrical questions, if you don't know this, or at least how to determine these things, is it safe for you to do this work?

I mean number of conductors is pretty basic stuff. Can you crimp a wire terminal? I thought you were pretty handy when you said you were building a rotating garden.

Just hate to see someone get hurt trying to save a couple bucks.

I think you have me confused with Budz Bunny. Someone sort of copied my screen name. She / He is the one with the rotating garden. I work in the printing field; not construction at all. If I see a picture of something I can do it. That simple. Is it worth it ? At this point there's too much invested to stop. I can do this. Just need some info on it to know my thinking is right.

 

[greenjeans]

I work in the printing field

I knew there was something weird about you!!!!
Just kidding - I spent my whole life in the printing industry - the last 30 manufacturing steel rule dies - then one day I decided "I'm tired of this - I'm gonna grow weed!!!"

 

[TurboBucket]

Because that doesn't get confusing at all lol. Such creativity haha.

I'm not an electrician but I do work in the trades, everything from the disconnect back is the sparkys problem. Haha I have wired in more than a few circuits in New construction though.

An ampacity chart will help you size it, depending on the conductor core, and the number of conductors in the chase you have to derate the cable. If it's buried it has to be cable approved for burial. If your running it in conduit use the 90s that are made for pulling, not the sealed ones, makes the pull a ton easier.

I'm pretty sure your gonna need 3+ for a service panel, you may be able to run it on 2+ if the load is low enough and doesn't overload that leg. @Hydroholic will know the sizing stuff he's a real sparky.

Double check your building codes, if they find you did work without a permit they can make you tear it all back out, even if it meets code. I've seen whole finished polebarns torn down over improper permitting. Just depends on the inspector and their mood, sometimes their cool, sometimes their dicks. It's always cheaper to pay for the permit and inspection than it is to redo it.

 

[Buds Buddy]

I knew there was something weird about you!!!!
Just kidding - I spent my whole life in the printing industry - the last 30 manufacturing steel rule dies - then one day I decided "I'm tired of this - I'm gonna grow weed!!!"

Had a friend who did that. Then he started his own company "ACUZONA" making the dies himself.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Because that doesn't get confusing at all lol. Such creativity haha.

I'm not an electrician but I do work in the trades, everything from the disconnect back is the sparkys problem. Haha I have wired in more than a few circuits in New construction though.

An ampacity chart will help you size it, depending on the conductor core, and the number of conductors in the chase you have to derate the cable. If it's buried it has to be cable approved for burial. If your running it in conduit use the 90s that are made for pulling, not the sealed ones, makes the pull a ton easier.

I'm pretty sure your gonna need 3+ for a service panel, you may be able to run it on 2+ if the load is low enough and doesn't overload that leg. @Hydroholic will know the sizing stuff he's a real sparky.

Double check your building codes, if they find you did work without a permit they can make you tear it all back out, even if it meets code. I've seen whole finished polebarns torn down over improper permitting. Just depends on the inspector and their mood, sometimes their cool, sometimes their dicks. It's always cheaper to pay for the permit and inspection than it is to redo it.

I'll look into that on Monday.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Anyway, I took a bunch of pics of my electrical mess today so I'll post them in groups.
These 1st pics are the Main Breaker Box in my Laundry Room. Looks like some things have been changed before to me. The 3rd breaker down on the Left Side that says Bedroom on it is the Breaker connected to the shed. There are 2 Bedrooms on this breaker at least. I'm going to start finding out exactly which breaker works what.

 

[Buds Buddy]

These next pics show where my Meter is. Where the corner of the house the Main Electric Panel is located at. And the Wiring going up the Pole & into the shed. There's also an outside Flourescent light in the ceiling outside. From what I can see it's all wired with 14/2 with ground. NOT GOOD !!!
I also have no idea where that wire going into the ground goes to. It might be connected to an outlet in a bedroom or all the way to the box ??? Don't know yet.

 

[Buds Buddy]

These pics are the wiring inside the shed. Just goes in a circle & ends up at a light in the add on room. No outlets in that room. You will notice there are 3 light switches. 1 goes to the outside light. The other 2 don't seem to work anything. In the last 3 pics you'll see 1 of the wires that come in from outside goes off into the add on room where the previous owner was growing. This wire is not connected to anything. I'm pretty sure that goes to one of the switches & is still hot.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Here are the last 3 pics of the wire that I'm talking about.

 

[Hydroholic]

Ok, I'm going to do the sub panel & move breakers to it from old panel like you suggested. This Sub Panel will only be a 4 Slot. Two Slots for the Breakers I move & Two Slots for the Shed. Now I want to keep the Breakers I move at the 15 Amps but still want to have at least 40 Amps going to the Shed. So do I put a 50 Amp Breaker in the Main Box & a 15 Amp & 40 Amp Breaker in the Sub Panel ? I was going to use either No 4 or 6 wire to wire the main box to the sub panel & then No 6 wire to another breaker box that controls everything in the shed on 4 15 Amp Breakers.. Not sure if I need 4/2 or 4/3 or 6/2 or 6/3 with Ground. How do you determine this ?
I already have 14/2 with Ground for the lights & 12/2 with ground for the outlets, all new outlets, switches, outlet boxes, covers, & light fixtures. I'll be starting on this project soon.

If you use a THHN or a THWN wire you can use #8 but #6 is better. This is if you keep your panel next to the other. Voltage drop comes into play with any distance. You want to make sure that your neutral and ground are connected between the two panels. If not you will end up with a floating neutral/ground. Your Neutral wire between the two panels needs to be the same size and the feeder cable. Like 6, or 8 You will know by the box you buy. If it’s a 2 pole you need a 3conductor with ground. Single pole you need a 2c w/ground.

 

[Buds Buddy]

If you use a THHN or a THWN wire you can use #8 but #6 is better. This is if you keep your panel next to the other. Voltage drop comes into play with any distance. You want to make sure that your neutral and ground are connected between the two panels. If not you will end up with a floating neutral/ground. Your Neutral wire between the two panels needs to be the same size and the feeder cable. Like 6, or 8 You will know by the box you buy. If it’s a 2 pole you need a 3conductor with ground. Single pole you need a 2c w/ground.

If the Main Box is a 3 pole does the Sub Panel need to be a 3 pole also or does that make any difference? Right now it has 14/2 hooked up throughout, but I'm betting it's connected to a bedroom outlet. The other thing is ... my main panel says it only takes Cutler Hammer Breakers.
Haven't found that brand at Lowes or Home Depot. Most of their stuff is GE & 2 other brands.
One more thing. I'm guessing that even though a Breaker Box says its 100 Amp, that you can still use it for 50 Amp if that's all you're drawing from it ? I found some GE 2 pole 8 slot boxes for $27 & the Breakers (15 Amp) are like $5 ea. & the 50 Amp is $10 so if I can go that route I can get the box & breakers for about $75 which isn't bad. Most expensive thing is the No 6 wire at about $1.25 per foot & I need 100' to get from the New Sub Panel next to the Main Box. Putting a 2nd sub panel box in the shed itself to wire everything in the shed to. That way I'll only have the 1 No 6 wire to run 100' instead of 2 or 3 No. 12 & 14 wires. Hope it's legal this way.

 

[Hydroholic]

If the Main Box is a 3 pole does the Sub Panel need to be a 3 pole also or does that make any difference? Right now it has 14/2 hooked up throughout, but I'm betting it's connected to a bedroom outlet.

NO Because you are putting a 2 pole breaker in. I would be very surprised if you have a 3 phase incoming feed.

 

[greenjeans]

making the dies himself

Yep - started in a printshop out of college, did that til I was about 37, then a couple of years doing carpentry then started my own business making dies - talk about a steep learning curve!!! Glad I wasn't growing weed then - probably would take less time to count my fingers!!

 

[Buds Buddy]

Yep - started in a printshop out of college, did that til I was about 37, then a couple of years doing carpentry then started my own business making dies - talk about a steep learning curve!!! Glad I wasn't growing weed then - probably would take less time to count my fingers!!

Yeah, I use to run 1 & 2 color Ryobi & Hamada Presses but didn't like that end of it so went to bindery. Now I run Cutters & Folders for the most part but can set up & operate just about anything after 40 years in the field.
Company I use to work for shut down 3.5 years ago & been stuck on a 2nd shift job ever since. I'm a morning person so that's been rough on me. Took 3.5 years to finally find a day shift job that I start this Thursday ... Hooray !!!
I hate leaving the company I'm at because the benefits are great there & it's a fantastic company. But being back on days means a hell of a lot to me so I'm doing it anyway. Hope I don't regret it !

 

[Buds Buddy]

Anyway, I picked up a G.E. 125 Amp Breaker Box with 8 Slots / 16 circuits, 3 - 15 Amp Breakers & 1 20 Amp Breaker for A/C, 100' of 12/2 & 14/2 with ground, 15 - outlet boxes (cheaper if you buy 15),
2- of the square boxes for ceiling lights w/ porcelain light fixtures, Box of 10 outlets & Covers, Box of 10 switches & covers, Wire Staples, etc. So I have everything I need for the electric in the Shed. Once I have that part done I'll call an electrician to wire it to the house. Already found a guy close by who says he'll do it; but he said he'd rather run individual No 6 wires through conduit or PVC so may go that way instead of Direct Burial No 6 Romex.
Is there any need to put a Ground Stake in for the sub panel in the shed since it will be connected to the main box anyway? Doesn't sound necessary to me, but I could be wrong so better to ask now.
I also picked up 4 more rolls of R-13 Insulation. Guy on offer up was selling his excess for $10 a roll so I bought 4. That should give me more than enough to do the shed since I had 2 rolls already.
So as you can see, I'm getting close to running this electric. Once I do I'll be posting pics & detailing what I've done so you guys can see if you spot anything wrong. Thanks All !!!

 

[Hydroholic]

Anyway, I picked up a G.E. 125 Amp Breaker Box with 8 Slots / 16 circuits, 3 - 15 Amp Breakers & 1 20 Amp Breaker for A/C, 100' of 12/2 & 14/2 with ground, 15 - outlet boxes (cheaper if you buy 15),
2- of the square boxes for ceiling lights w/ porcelain light fixtures, Box of 10 outlets & Covers, Box of 10 switches & covers, Wire Staples, etc. So I have everything I need for the electric in the Shed. Once I have that part done I'll call an electrician to wire it to the house. Already found a guy close by who says he'll do it; but he said he'd rather run individual No 6 wires through conduit or PVC so may go that way instead of Direct Burial No 6 Romex.
Is there any need to put a Ground Stake in for the sub panel in the shed since it will be connected to the main box anyway? Doesn't sound necessary to me, but I could be wrong so better to ask now.
I also picked up 4 more rolls of R-13 Insulation. Guy on offer up was selling his excess for $10 a roll so I bought 4. That should give me more than enough to do the shed since I had 2 rolls already.
So as you can see, I'm getting close to running this electric. Once I do I'll be posting pics & detailing what I've done so you guys can see if you spot anything wrong. Thanks All !!!

I agree with conduit instead of direct burial. You will need a ground rod at the shed. All sub panels must be grounded. The Neutral bar and the ground bar needs to be separated at the small panel in the shed.

 

[Buds Buddy]

I agree with conduit instead of direct burial. You will need a ground rod at the shed. All sub panels must be grounded. The Neutral bar and the ground bar needs to be separated at the small panel in the shed.

Thanks again !