Freidog's - Soil - Northern Lights Under 400W LED

[Mr. Krip]

Ev'nin!

Today is Day 28 - 4 weeks done! Tied down the girls for their LST again today -- they were looking very good and had shot out in multiple directions in the past two days.

Here some pics:

I have two questions for the community:

1. Should I be sending them into flower now, or should I wait another week for some additional veg growth?
2. If I let them veg another week, should I top some of the stronger side branches to get the girls to shoot out more branches and colas?

Thanks everyone! I'm quite pleased with my grow so far in and I'm really happy that I've joined the 420 group!

When you want to flip them into flower is entirely up to you and your available space/lighting. You can expect the plant to at least double and possibly triple or more in height during the first few weeks of flowering, so you need to make sure you leave yourself enough room. If you don't have the height restrictions, your lights are powerful enough to penetrate the canopy, and you're not in a rush, you can let her veg some more.

I would probably wait at least two weeks after topping, maybe more, before I put into flower so the results of the topping would be better than having left the original cola alone. If you're going to replace one big cola with two smaller colas, the two smaller should hopefully produce at least as much as the one larger one, and will need time to develop to make that happen.

 

[freidog]

I would probably wait at least two weeks after topping, maybe more, before I put into flower so the results of the topping would be better than having left the original cola alone. If you're going to replace one big cola with two smaller colas, the two smaller should hopefully produce at least as much as the one larger one, and will need time to develop to make that happen.

Thanks for your help, Krip! The plants were already topped last week (each one on the main cola). My question was rather, should I also consider topping some of the stronger branches as well, which are each producing their own branches? I've read about some people doing this, but I'm not sure what the overall experience is. Thanks!

 

[Sharksbreath]

Thanks for your help, Krip! The plants were already topped last week (each one on the main cola). My question was rather, should I also consider topping some of the stronger branches as well, which are each producing their own branches? I've read about some people doing this, but I'm not sure what the overall experience is. Thanks!

Good question, I too would like to learn more about this. Where's the experienced toppers out here. ...


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[dirt mcgert]

Girls are looking good

 

[Mr. Krip]

Thanks for your help, Krip! The plants were already topped last week (each one on the main cola). My question was rather, should I also consider topping some of the stronger branches as well, which are each producing their own branches? I've read about some people doing this, but I'm not sure what the overall experience is. Thanks!

My answer would be the same. When topping the "stronger" branches, which already have side branches, the two lower branches will start a growth spurt. You can let them go as long as you wish, based on height & light restrictions, but in the end, you'll want enough time for the two lower branches (now the two top branches once the lead is cut) to yield at least as much as the top branch would have (IMHO), which, I would expect would likely take at least a couple of weeks.

FYI...I top my plants extensively during veg. Virtually all of them get a "Uncle Ben's Topping (UBT)" to start, which you can Google and I'm sure is described many times in my early journals, and additional toppings from there as well as LST, and occasionally a supercropping (sometimes, even on purpose! ).

With the UBT, once the plant has put out 4-5 sets of true leaves, you snip b/t the 2nd & 3rd. It will actually cause 4 PRIMARY colas to form (or 2, if you snip b/t the 1st & 2nd node). Each of these can be further topped, as desired.

I'll try to post a pic for you in the next few days (maybe the weekend!) of a current plant I have with UBT so you can see the branch structure.

 

[Mr. Krip]

UPDATE: Here's a link to the UBT info reproduced here:

Uncle Ben's Topping Method

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Thanks Mr. Krip for links on Brix and Ed Rosenthals guide. It appears brix is measure influencing quality as well as potency. I'll have to get out my brew equip when I juice leaves tonight and get a measure on my grow. It's the density of juices in the plant, including sugars, nutrients, minerals, etc., in other words everything plant needs to produce quality potent and pleasant bud.

Regarding defol, I've reviewed some of the material I used before and revised my position. In my youthful and inexperienced enthusiasm I may have oversimplified some things.
First, it applies to taller bushy plants and not to LST. The purpose is not to create more bud sites but to stimulate more growth down low that will ultimately produce larger denser buds below the canopy (not popcorn).
Second, bud cells do exist in the cambium layer of stem during veg phase. Stimulating these cells during pre-flower may strengthen them for bigger response during flower. (emphasis on 'maybe', cells are definitely there but no way to separate this possible effect from others.)
Third, if bud development on top cola is same, harvest of quality buds underneath is all gain. (yes, there's another 'if')
Fourth, starting moderate defol during pre-flower helps prepare plant for heavier defol during flower necessary to maintain penetration to lower buds and reduces shading to other fan leaves.

I admit that I do not have the full picture of how this works and I do have a healthy dose of skepticism to go along with this. The deciding factor for me to try this is that none of the posts/videos I've seen against defol are from growers that have actually tried it.

That said, I retract my previous post suggesting that Freidog's plants would benefit from more defol. I was off-base, and I thank you for the copious information.

Finally, my user name is actually a typo. It was supposed to be KingstonRabbit. Rabbi sounds kind of cool too, plus I used to be a teacher so I left it as is.

 

[freidog]

UPDATE: Here's a link to the UBT info reproduced here:

Uncle Ben's Topping Method

Thanks Krip, for both your insights and the link! I appreciate your guidance and experience!!!


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[Mr. Krip]

Thanks Mr. Krip for links on Brix and Ed Rosenthals guide. It appears brix is measure influencing quality as well as potency. I'll have to get out my brew equip when I juice leaves tonight and get a measure on my grow. It's the density of juices in the plant, including sugars, nutrients, minerals, etc., in other words everything plant needs to produce quality potent and pleasant bud.

Regarding defol, I've reviewed some of the material I used before and revised my position. In my youthful and inexperienced enthusiasm I may have oversimplified some things.
First, it applies to taller bushy plants and not to LST. The purpose is not to create more bud sites but to stimulate more growth down low that will ultimately produce larger denser buds below the canopy (not popcorn).
Second, bud cells do exist in the cambium layer of stem during veg phase. Stimulating these cells during pre-flower may strengthen them for bigger response during flower. (emphasis on 'maybe', cells are definitely there but no way to separate this possible effect from others.)
Third, if bud development on top cola is same, harvest of quality buds underneath is all gain. (yes, there's another 'if')
Fourth, starting moderate defol during pre-flower helps prepare plant for heavier defol during flower necessary to maintain penetration to lower buds and reduces shading to other fan leaves.

I admit that I do not have the full picture of how this works and I do have a healthy dose of skepticism to go along with this. The deciding factor for me to try this is that none of the posts/videos I've seen against defol are from growers that have actually tried it.

That said, I retract my previous post suggesting that Freidog's plants would benefit from more defol. I was off-base, and I thank you for the copious information.

Finally, my user name is actually a typo. It was supposed to be KingstonRabbit. Rabbi sounds kind of cool too, plus I used to be a teacher so I left it as is.

I'm glad to help!

Please read my "Top 5 Lessons for New Growers" (link in signature). If you read Lesson #1, you'll see that I'll only encourage you to experiment with different techniques to find what works best for you and along the way I'll try to pass on any helpful knowledge, much of which was gained by many great growers here on

I was doing a 24-plant SOG for a couple/few years, so I've easily grown & harvested something like 150-200 or more plants and, if I had to estimate, I would say I've defoliated 90-95% of them in flower at the 21 and 45 day marks. During veg, I try to use LST or topping and only remove dead stuff.

Much thanks to Doc Bud and the other "pioneers" in high brix, while I don't use Doc's methods, I do try to retain MOST of the fan leaves now, although I do still defoliate the lower parts of the branches to increase air circulation and also remove the lower bud sites and ANY thin/weak colas. I do this to ensure the plant is putting all it's energies into developing the colas that are capable of supporting large buds, so I get little-to-no "popcorn" bud (and don't really want any!), but do get nice fat colas.

Here's a pic from my gallery of an old SOG grow. The plants on the right have been defoliated. The ones on the left have been in flower less than the 21 days and are waiting for their defoliation:

Here's some after the 45 day defoliation. You can see how even the buds on the lower branches are big & solid:

This is a sample top cola:

Here's the mid-section of the same cola:

And, here's the lower section:

The top cola alone on this plant is about as thick as the 2-liter bottle it's in:

No popcorn buds there. So, I'm NOT against defoliation and I've done it MANY times in flower. I do, however, remain a little skeptical that, even if defoliation in veg caused more bud sites that it would be the best way to accomplish it.

 

[KingstonRabbi]

Thanks Mr Krip. Already checked out your 5 lessons post, I am definitely into experimenting and feedback.

These photos are really helpful. Lots to absorb but feel like i'm getting handle on things. Gradually working my way from all the things I could be doing to finding out what I want to do. Next grow will be scrog so won't be doing as much defol. Also using lst and topping on outside plants to keep them wide and below fence level. I agree there's lots of other ways to increase yield and some may work better. This is now a lifetime enterprise, gonna try 'em all!

 

[freidog]

Gave the girls some feed again yesterday, Day 31. It was 5 days between feedings and the pots were weighing very little, so I figured it was time for water.

Watering Yesterday:
The Runt In: 3300ml @ EC 940 pH 6.1 Run-off: 100ml @ EC 1410 pH 6.1
Jane In: 3300ml @ EC 940 pH 6.1 Run-off: 500ml @ EC 1430 pH 6.0
Medusa In: 3300ml @ EC 940pH 6.1 Run-off: 700ml @ EC 1050 pH 6.2

I had noticed some of the lower leaves which were tucked in had turned yellow. Here is a pic (albeit it's from today so the leaf has wrinkled up quite a bit):

Can anybody help me with this? Any deficiency?

Here is the rest of the grow today:

Any ideas or thoughts? I'm not panicking, because I need to wait and see what the plants say to me, but any feedback would be appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Mr. Krip]

Your girls all look healthy! Unless that leaf came from a plant that's not pictured, it's nothing to worry about. It's normal for the plant to start dropping lower fan leaves as it matures.

 

[freidog]

Your girls all look healthy! Unless that leaf came from a plant that's not pictured, it's nothing to worry about. It's normal for the plant to start dropping lower fan leaves as it matures.

Thanks for the quick feedback! I'll be listening to the girls as they grow. And yes, the pic has all plants in it...the yellowed one came from Jane, she's in the front right.


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[freidog]

Just a question: isn't it too early (still in the veg phase) to be naturally yellowing and dropping leaves? Could this be a sign of nitrogen deficiency?


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[mouser]

Just a question: isn't it too early (still in the veg phase) to be naturally yellowing and dropping leaves? Could this be a sign of nitrogen deficiency?


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I would expect to see more uniform symptoms before any deficiency caused the plant to drop leaves. If you have issues with just one leaf, treat it as a localized event...if it hasnt dropped on its own, cut it off and continue on. Most early mistakes are due to chasing an imagined issue. Your plant looks awesome. In all honesty it looks like you accidentally broke the leaf off or pinched it somehow

 

[freidog]

I would expect to see more uniform symptoms before any deficiency caused the plant to drop leaves. If you have issues with just one leaf, treat it as a localized event...if it hasnt dropped on its own, cut it off and continue on. Most early mistakes are due to chasing an imagined issue. Your plant looks awesome. In all honesty it looks like you accidentally broke the leaf off or pinched it somehow

Makes sense. Thanks for keeping me from going off on a tangent

I'll keep an eye on the ladies!


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[freidog]

Girls are looking great today on Day 33!

I'll be keeping them in veg for another 6 days and flip them over to flower next Saturday. Thoughts?

 

[MetalPoet]

Looking AWESOME!

 

[Mr. Krip]

The girls look great!

 

[KingstonRabbi]

You've filled the space horizontally. Nowhere to grow but up!