Herbies Bulk Gorilla Glue

[Skybound]

Whats up Sky?

Experiment doesn't look that bad. Bet she bounces back.

You gonna have a few big plants come flower time.

The one pictured was not experimented on. Her predecessor was and let me tell you, I smoked most of them leaves to a crisp. Yep, I learned what I needed to learn from that experiment, lol. The buds seem to have continued stacking and building, but I'm on the edge of my seat expecting something to go catastrophic with it. I still have about 30 more days of bloom with it too. The plant in the most recent pic dump is going to finish like a rock star. If the test dummy finishes like a roady, I'd be happy.

These pics were taken about a week ago. The leaves have since contorted on the tops and a lot of the leaves brown spotting has increased. I tried plucking off a couple, but the plant don't want to let them go so I'll just leave them til they fall. I hope I can get at least a half pound from this poor thing.

The lesson to be learned is DO NOT double down on the ammonium during week 3/4 of bloom in hydro. The cationic effect to stimulate trichome production does not work in hydro, lol.

 

[bobrown14]

Interested in the idea of your test? Cationic affect?

How where you trying to stimulate that??

I've herd of it from people that run Doc's kit but I have no idea what they are trying to accomplish or how. All I know about it is ... nothing. lol

 

[Skybound]

Interested in the idea of your test? Cationic affect?

How where you trying to stimulate that??

I've herd of it from people that run Doc's kit but I have no idea what they are trying to accomplish or how. All I know about it is ... nothing. lol

Well, it's sort of a mystery and I was trying to learn what happens in that process to better understand. In Doc's High Brix kit, specifically the Cationic drench that is used only for a single week throughout the whole grow. Using it is known to significantly increase tric production. Looking at nutrients from my eyes, I got to really looking at the Guaranteed Analysis (GA) for the Cat Drench and the original blend has 3%-NH4+, 11%-P2O5, 1%-K2O and 2%-S. P and S are anions so those can't be the focal point of something called "Cationic Drench", so I concluded that the focal point of that Drench is the ammoniacal N. Normally for me, roughly 10-15% of my total N is NH4+. For just 3 days, I bumped it up to about 25% total N while also reducing K in my feed to hopefully not imbalance with Ca. Just that little bit of a shift in my feed caused all of that damage and severe problems with my Calcium in that plant.

To be clear, I found that when I acquired and began using the ammonium, I noticed that my greenness became very vibrant and healthy looking, so IMO, NH4+ is required for healthy growth, but it definitely has it's limits. I tried to challenge those limits for just 3 days, but apparently that was a bit too much.

IDK if it is the ammoniacal shock that causes the tric growth, or if there is an actual electrical shift in the media that lends to this effect, but IMO it is the quick burst of ammoniacal N that does that trick. Through reverse engineering, I've concluded that the active ingredient in that product is Monoammonium Phosphate (MAP) as the math lines up perfectly with the GA. More research is needed for me to understand exactly why the NH4+ is able to cause a defensive reaction in the form of trichome growth. My mistake was likely that I mixed my feed with the extra NH4+, yet when done in the kit, there is a plain watering in between Cat drenches, whereas in my hydro, it's only the res feed that goes over the roots.

Bob do you do anything that can be construed as a cat drench? I know Conrad does, though IDK if he has his own or if he's using Doc's drench for that.

 

[Skybound]

Also, what's your thoughts about Methyl Jasmonate?

 

[WankirA]

Methyl Jasmonate

Hmmmmm......

 

[irie lion]

I love that you're going through these experiments Sky. Still lots to learn from this cannabis plant

 

[Skybound]

I love that you're going through these experiments Sky. Still lots to learn from this cannabis plant

I think I need to update that to "went" through those experiments, lol. Aside from adopting a few different techniques learned from the experiments like making a fish hydrol foliar spray and paying a LOT more attention to calcium and recognizing the various ways that its uptake can be hindered, and formulating the feed accordingly, I've concluded for the time being that high brix is not possible in hydroponics due mostly to the media and the lack of ability to sustain life for days between watering as the gradual reduction of water in the rootzone allows the plant to more efficiently manage sugars, which is needed for high brix. That's not to say that we can't grow extremely healthy bug resistant plants, just that the brix will never elevate.

In the coming weeks/months, I'll be moving my grow to a larger space and I'll be growing in Faux mix which means I will be able to get high brix afterall, just not with my hydro regimens.

 

[Skybound]

My GG#1 that I smoked is still pulling along sort of. She's building her buds and they look well, but damn her fan leaves are scorched. Fingers are still crossed that she'll finish and the bud is decent.

Here is my only HSO Em Dog. She's the same age as the Glue (circa 4/11), but the Em Dog is only 10 days into 12/12. There's GG#2 in darkness right now that's about half way into bloom now that looks a trillion times better than the scorched GG above. So far, the Em Dog, aside from slow in veg, is looking impressive by the way she's branching out. I hope she stacks like she looks like she might. Being half Chem and half OG, I expect her to be nice and frosty, I just hope she yields well. I am definitely preserving this gene to try out in the dirt when I switch in a few months.

 

[Skybound]

Here's the other Gorilla Glue. Aside from being super healthy, she's not showing as much potential as the hideous Glue above in that her buds aren't stacking that well. We'll see what the future holds, but so far I'm liking the pheno I scorched and am now eager awaiting for one of her foot tall clones pictured in the middle of the Veg pic to be put into bloom in about 5 weeks.

Veg

Gorilla Glue, pheno #2, not showing good potential IMO. Middle of her 4th week in bloom

 

[SQl2kGuy]

Well, it's sort of a mystery and I was trying to learn what happens in that process to better understand. In Doc's High Brix kit, specifically the Cationic drench that is used only for a single week throughout the whole grow. Using it is known to significantly increase tric production. Looking at nutrients from my eyes, I got to really looking at the Guaranteed Analysis (GA) for the Cat Drench and the original blend has 3%-NH4+, 11%-P2O5, 1%-K2O and 2%-S. P and S are anions so those can't be the focal point of something called "Cationic Drench", so I concluded that the focal point of that Drench is the ammoniacal N. Normally for me, roughly 10-15% of my total N is NH4+. For just 3 days, I bumped it up to about 25% total N while also reducing K in my feed to hopefully not imbalance with Ca. Just that little bit of a shift in my feed caused all of that damage and severe problems with my Calcium in that plant.

To be clear, I found that when I acquired and began using the ammonium, I noticed that my greenness became very vibrant and healthy looking, so IMO, NH4+ is required for healthy growth, but it definitely has it's limits. I tried to challenge those limits for just 3 days, but apparently that was a bit too much.

IDK if it is the ammoniacal shock that causes the tric growth, or if there is an actual electrical shift in the media that lends to this effect, but IMO it is the quick burst of ammoniacal N that does that trick. Through reverse engineering, I've concluded that the active ingredient in that product is Monoammonium Phosphate (MAP) as the math lines up perfectly with the GA. More research is needed for me to understand exactly why the NH4+ is able to cause a defensive reaction in the form of trichome growth. My mistake was likely that I mixed my feed with the extra NH4+, yet when done in the kit, there is a plain watering in between Cat drenches, whereas in my hydro, it's only the res feed that goes over the roots.

Bob do you do anything that can be construed as a cat drench? I know Conrad does, though IDK if he has his own or if he's using Doc's drench for that.

I'm no guru but I think you are on the right track.

From what I understand, the number of colloids in the soil will determine the cation exchange capacity (CEC) and act as a buffer to pH change.

Not all, but many hydroponic media have a low CEC, so your drench may have caused a significant swing in your pH (it went up right?), thus giving you less than ideal results.

One other quick thought ... if the pH swing was an issue, then a specific chelate may be needed to help with your experiment in your current medium.

In a soil medium, if you time the drench right you stress the plant and trigger a defense mechanism that will make the plant produce more trichomes ... right? of course ... that's the whole point

The math is beyond me right now ... and you're likely right about the focal point, ... but the anions are likely there for a reason too.

Nevertheless, please post a solution when you work it out, as I am very eager to fully understand the chemistry involved in the defensive mechanism.

As a side note ... talking about defense mechanisms ... I plan to try the "splitting stems" technique on one plant this grow.

Have you guys heard of this technique, or ever tried it yet?

Enjoy your weekend!

 

[Grandpa Tokin]

View media item 1698904

 

[SQl2kGuy]

View media item 1698904

lol ... that's funny ... I had to look twice because I am so tired right now ... I wonder what his favorite strain is

Now I better get a bit of sleep ... we have quite a bit of outside gardening to do today.

 

[WankirA]

splitting stems

Saw some african farmers doing it just prior to harvest, not really clear why you'd do it though: seams counter productive, but hey, wtf do i know
Be careful, am new to this growing game and have fukd up a couple plants good and proper trying to do 'stuff' i had no business doing....
Keep us posted though!!!

 

[Skybound]

I'm no guru but I think you are on the right track.

From what I understand, the number of colloids in the soil will determine the cation exchange capacity (CEC) and act as a buffer to pH change.

Not all, but many hydroponic media have a low CEC, so your drench may have caused a significant swing in your pH (it went up right?), thus giving you less than ideal results.

One other quick thought ... if the pH swing was an issue, then a specific chelate may be needed to help with your experiment in your current medium.

In a soil medium, if you time the drench right you stress the plant and trigger a defense mechanism that will make the plant produce more trichomes ... right? of course ... that's the whole point

The math is beyond me right now ... and you're likely right about the focal point, ... but the anions are likely there for a reason too.

Nevertheless, please post a solution when you work it out, as I am very eager to fully understand the chemistry involved in the defensive mechanism.

As a side note ... talking about defense mechanisms ... I plan to try the "splitting stems" technique on one plant this grow.

Have you guys heard of this technique, or ever tried it yet?

Enjoy your weekend!

If I ever retry this experiment, it won't be for another 6 months or so as I need all of my remaining hydro chops to be heavy weights as I need to build a room and get everything ready to expand my op. But the short story is that even though all of the damage I caused, I do believe I'm seeing more tric production than the other Gorilla seed that's now mid bloom. I'll need another 2 weeks to know for certain, but as is now, between the 2 seeds/pheno, I'm liking the one I almost killed a lot better. Frostier and her buds stacked nice. I feel she would've did very well if I didn't smoke her up with the ammonium. I'm eager to bloom her clones now.

I thought it was organic matter that was responsible for the CEC? Regardless, being in rockwool is about the deadest media there is save for maybe clay pebbles, lol. I do try to work fulvic/humic/kelp into the media, but who am I kidding, it all just washes right out the bottom. When I did the 3 day res with high NH4, I corrected the PH and knocked 40 ppm off the K so not to make too much of a conflict with the NH4+ Cation. I wasn't entirely sure what I was looking for in the process. Someone on another thread suggested that the P was the trigger, and other elsewhere again suggested soil PH was the trigger, but I can't compute either of those because the drench was called "Cationic" and I believed at the time that the emphasis was on the only cation in the solution. FWIW, there was also 1% K2O, but 3% NH4+.

I never heard of the split stem technique, but I'm eager to see where this goes and will be subbing up to your journal today!

 

[WankirA]

I Fkn love GG. Have seen (uchoob) Gorilla G colas the size of fists and would dearly love to grow myself some but damn it gives me a headache from hell.
Not ever managed to get around it sadly...

Dont reckon your #2 is stacking like a Mr Fister but still looking like a nice yield...

 

[Skybound]

I Fkn love GG. Have seen (uchoob) Gorilla G colas the size of fists and would dearly love to grow myself some but damn it gives me a headache from hell.
Not ever managed to get around it sadly...

Dont reckon your #2 is stacking like a Mr Fister but still looking like a nice yield...

I hope so. I don't see it, but I still hope so. Hopefully the quality is good though. I got a huge PC in veg just aching for her own space so as soon as I get that friend Glue out, the PC can get in there and make daddy some money! I might start some new beans. Maybe Herbies Bulk GSC, or maybe Barney's Ayahuasca Purple, or Dr Krippling's Incredible Bulk. I bet the GSC has the best chance for high frost, but others are more weight for sure.

 

[NorCaliwood]

Saw some african farmers doing it just prior to harvest, not really clear why you'd do it though: seams counter productive, but hey, wtf do i know
Be careful, am new to this growing game and have fukd up a couple plants good and proper trying to do 'stuff' i had no business doing....
Keep us posted though!!!

Some of the oldtimers use to do something close. They wood stick a razorblade about a 3rd the way thru the stem at ground level. Suppose to put the plant is shock and produce resin to fix the wound but the wound is unfixable because the blade remains in the stem,,, so she keeps making mote resin. Some used a nail, pushed it all the way thru.

Not sure if that's the same idea ya'll are talking about?


Did it work? Hell if I know and some claimed boiling the rootball in a big pot will help bring more to the buds at harvest.


Drive by

 

[Skybound]

At some point, I'm just going to give Methyl Jasmonate a whirl.

 

[WankirA]

At some point, I'm just going to give Methyl Jasmonate a whirl.

Gibberellic Acid looks like it couod be of use too...

 

[Skybound]

GG2 - Day 30. The buds are slowly filling out, but they didn't stack very well, plus the side branches didn't stretch out a lot. It's a nice even canopy, I just wish she filled in the space more.