I really need help with a diagnosis on these seedlings, please...

[Smokrates]

First, this is more or less a repost, but with a photo and a few changes. I have requested the original post be removed. I am sorry for the confusion...chalk it up to desperation! OK, here goes...

Here is a photo of one plant, however, ALL 5 plants are suffering the same problems.

Following are the details and conditions:

3 are Nirvana Northern Lights and 2 are Nirvana Blue Mystic - the plan was to grow these 5 and then cull them to one best of each strain
Germinated on Oct 17 (less than 72 hours after planting) in Eazy Plugs using standard Jiffyplug/rock wool/Eazy Plug technique
Transplanted plugs on Oct 24 to small net pots with Hydroton (as seen in photos) as roots were growing out of plugs
First week seedlings seemed healthy and vibrant
Grown in a cabinet with (6) 250 watt equivalent cool CFL's
Intake pulls in from bottom front and exhaust fan top rear of cabinet with 120 CFM/3.4m³ air capacity
Temps stay always at 78-80 F/25-26 C
Humidity is right at 60%
Have not started with nutes yet
Tap water PH is right at 7.0 (used initially for germination and hand watering)
Frankly, problems began almost immediately upon turning on DWC bubbler
Using a DWC with 6"/15cm air stone and large size pump and no nutrients yet
Reservoir water solution for DWC is at PH 5.5-6.0
Water level was just below net pot bottoms and entire net pots were being "bubble splashed"
Original diagnosis made by me was somehow they were being "over-watered" by DWC so I shut off bubbler to allow to dry out some
Currently roots seem bright white, healthy and hairy though have not yet grown out of net pots

I understand it MAY be too late for these "pups", but I need to know what to fix for next go around. Oh wise and mighty green thumbs, please help this poor gardener!

 

[Light Addict]

Sorry buddy I dont do DWC so might not be much help. I'll give it a little punt though. Firstly dont give up on them anyway, these plants are weeds and will often pull through and sort themselves out. Especially if your roots are looking as good as they sound.
Not sure if its needed as I dont use them, but did you wash the clay pebbles?
Sorry thats all I can think of unless they be hungry? What other medium do you have in net pot?

 

[Smokrates]

...Not sure if its needed as I dont use them, but did you wash the clay pebbles?...

I appreciate the input. Thanks. The only thing I can think of at this point is the Hydroton/clay pellets. In answer to your question, no, did not wash them. Did not know I was supposed to and just assumed they were the inert neutral medium they were supposed to be. After your question, however, I did some research and it seems there are a lot of proponents to cleaning and pre-soaking for PH the clay. Don't know if not doing it was the cause, but it is the only thing I can think of now.

The plants are now dead. They looked like the photos still, but were completely dry and brittle. Where the roots emerged from the eazy plug cube, within a short distance they went from white to brown. It was almost as if the clay medium caused some problem. I am re germinating now, but will "bail out" and use soil until I can figure out the cause of this first batch. To be frank, am sort of disappointed, and surprised, to not have gotten more feedback off the forum thread. Thank you for taking the time Light Addict.

 

[Light Addict]

Have faith buddy sometimes it takes a while for people to jump in. If they dont have an answer they tend to just give the subject a swerve. Soil is good, I'm a soil guy myself normally, although my big Tutt girl is in a cocco soil mix. You can get awesome results from soil and it is a lot more forgiving.
Best wishes for your new babs!

 

[Cultivator]

Ok

If u want to learn DWC follow my journals and i'll answer any and all questions u have.

Very important to wash the pebbles thoroughly as the residue plays havok with ph and leaves loads crap in res.

U cant over water in DWC! Only drown them if not enough o2.

Also PH down is toxic to young seedlings, dont ph anything until at least the first real set of leaves are there.

When u transplant If using a plug, keep clear gap between net pot and nutrient/water. Just top feed/water until roots show through net pot. As soon as roots show through net pot, stop the top feed.

DWC using clay pebbles takes best using aerocloned clones. u can certainly use seeds or other cloned methods but thats IMO best way to transplant.

Try using rockwool or coco in net pot instead pebbles if growing from seed. it means u can top feed and allow roots to develop in the media. Its alot harder in pebbles.

Hope this helps.

 

[Light Addict]

Awesome info post Cultivator, thanks for spreading the wisdom. Thats why I love this site you big experienced guys are a font of hard earnt knowledge. I probs only have about 80 plants to my name lol. Sorry its just your work is pretty cool and on such a scale. So many thanks my man!

 

[Cultivator]

its all good mate, shared wisom is what helped me progress so good to give some back.

 

[Smokrates]

Cultivator, thanks a lot! For what it is worth. the plants when I finally pulled the plug on them were very dry to the touch and brittle even to the point of leaf crumbling, yet appeared as in photos. Maybe that helps some in narrowing down causes.

...Very important to wash the pebbles thoroughly as the residue plays havok with ph and leaves loads crap in res...

Aside from the residual crap mucking up reservoir and or water pumps, have you heard of (or experienced) any toxicity to seedlings or roots from not pre-washing clay? What about pre soaking in a PH solution for a day or two - Do you find this necessary or useful? Are these possible causes?

...U cant over water in DWC! Only drown them if not enough o2...When u transplant If using a plug, keep clear gap between net pot and nutrient/water. Just top feed/water until roots show through net pot. As soon as roots show through net pot, stop the top feed...

Understood, what bothered me is I had the net pot bottoms a finger width above water surface (in a 3 gallon/12 Liter container) with an airpump designed for a large aquarium and a big airstone. Even the bottom of the lid, much less the entire net pots were being splashed by the bubbles and were wet enough to have small drips coming off of bottom of net pots. Fresh water, no nutes since plants were only a week old at time. But there should have been plenty of oxygen, right? Or was top feed/watering absolutely needed regardless of the above?

...Also PH down is toxic to young seedlings, dont ph anything until at least the first real set of leaves are there...

This is a concern as I did use PH down to stabilize reservoir water at a 5.5 - 6.0 PH rather than the out of the tap 7.0 PH. Could this have been the prime culprit?

...When u transplant If using a plug, keep clear gap between net pot and nutrient/water...

Have you (or anyone on this thread) ever heard of Eazy Plugs? Seeds Eazy Plug They are described as a water self regulating plug with enough mild nutes for the first week or two of seedling growth from germination. Has anyone here heard of using them hydroponically and having any problems?

Again, thanks so much for the help!

 

[Cultivator]

sounds like ur seedlings dried out to me.

Ive never heard of residue on pebbles being toxic and killing anything, more just mild ph issues and dust and residue blocking lines.

When using seedlings its necessary to top feed because the roots arent big enough to find the res with out a little help. The pebbles dont hold onto water long so roots can dry out if left too long. When using aero clones i make sure roots are long enough to reach the bottom of net pot, and i never top feed then.

Like i said, try starting ur seedling in rockwool or coco, start it in the net pot and sit it in the dwc bucket with no water in. top feed until u see roots emerge out the sides of the net pot then add water/nutes to res and stop top feeding.

u dont want any mild nutes on seedlings. u can addd ur own when they are ready. just use root riot pugs or similar mate.

 

[Smokrates]

sounds like ur seedlings dried out to me...Ive never heard of residue on pebbles being toxic and killing anything...

I think you have it sorted out. I soaked all of the clay in one container of 7.0 PH plain tap water since yesterday morning (a little more than 24 hours) and there was zero PH change and only some clay reside/dust in the bottom of the bin.

Based upon all the info in the post so far, you are pretty confident that they just dried out? Not to put you on the spot or anything!

I am a bit nervous to go down the same path as before as I only have four seeds left and they are currently germinating. If I have too much doubt, I will just "bail out" and go with a soil grow as it seems safer, though I really wanted to do the DWC thing. Or maybe do one or two one way and one or two the other simultaneously...

Thanks for the input. It is MUCH appreciated.

 

[Cultivator]

i cant be confident in anything unless i saw the pics. but it sounds that way. dwc is great. dont give up on it. try using coco instead of pebbles. But if u are using pebbles make sure ur root plug is full of root befor transplanting to pebbles then top feed 3 times per day until roots show through net pot. then stop the top feed.