A Lovely Lady And A Grumpy Old Man Growing In Newfoundland Fall 2023

[CharlieWaffles]

Small update: I don’t have the more reliable Uni-T metre, just the Photone app. After doing a bit more reading on PPFD I have decided to lower the lights to 16 inches and dial back the intensity to 50%. This gives me PPFD across the spread of 650-750. That’s good for now I believe. I also topped the Banner Auto. I think the 3 gallon pot will be too small for very much LST so I think I will top it maybe twice more after this and lolly pop the bottom perhaps. Time will tell.

 

[Delps8]

Re. Photone - thank you for posting this information. Once again, Photone appears to be significantly inaccurate. In this case, it appears to be reading very high because the light that you have specified cannot generate PPFD values that high at the hang height and dimmer settings you have posted.

One of the reasons I recommend not using Photone is that I've found it to be inaccurate. I've tested Photone twice. The first test was against a blurple and Photone could not generate a value. I had contacted growlightmeter.com ("GLM") re. testing and Dominik, their programmer, sent me the codes for all light sources. I used the blurple setting against a Kind blurple and Photone failed so I ended up getting an Apogee.

I tested Photone again last Summer against a Growcraft light and it was 16% high at the four dimmer settings (25, 50, 75, 100%).

Vipar does a poor job providing PPFD values so I checked another site which goes to significant trouble to provide accurate readings. If you look at the PPFD charts for this light, you'll see that they're testing PAR and ePAR at hang heights of 8.5" and 12". PAR is light in the range of 400 to 700nm whereas ePar is a slightly broader range of wavelengths so ePar will be a higher value.

Your screenshot is showing 954µmols at 75% at 20". In contrast, the values from the above cited site are 985± at 8.5" and 945µmols at 12". In this case, the light level has dropped 40µmols when hang height has changed only 4".

According to Photone at 20" and 75% dimmer setting, your light is getting more light to a canopy than CfC was reading at 12".

The Growcraft site has the best info re. a light that I've seen from any manufacturer. The page at this link shows the PPFD readings for my flower light. Note that at 12" the reading is 1308µmols but at at 24" it's down to 940µmols or a 30% drop. The difference between the values that you've published is 30% so your Photone+phone setup appears to be inaccurate but consistent. Unfortunately, the values themselves are suspect.

 

[Delps8]

Small update: I don’t have the more reliable Uni-T metre, just the Photone app. After doing a bit more reading on PPFD I have decided to lower the lights to 16 inches and dial back the intensity to 50%. This gives me PPFD across the spread of 650-750. That’s good for now I believe. I also topped the Banner Auto. I think the 3 gallon pot will be too small for very much LST so I think I will top it maybe twice more after this and lolly pop the bottom perhaps. Time will tell.

If you're not going to use a light meter or a PAR meter, I'd go with manufacturer's recommended settings.

At 16" and 50%, you are nowhere near 650µmols. For that light, 50% at 12" ≈ 400mols. Raise the light to 16" and you'll be 350 on a good day.

[edit]
CfC does a dimmer test — at 12" and 50%, that light generated an ePAR PPFD of 478µmols. Raise the light to 16" and…400µmols±?

Your plants will love 400µmols.

 

[Delps8]

Are you using an iPhone with Photone? If so, did you put the strip of printer paper around the top of the phone? If not, that could be a source of the problem.

Just a thought.

 

[CharlieWaffles]

Are you using an iPhone with Photone? If so, did you put the strip of printer paper around the top of the phone? If not, that could be a source of the problem.

Just a thought.

Sure did

 

[CharlieWaffles]

Day 27
They’re all looking wonderful now and seem to be kicking it up a notch. The medium was bone dry again. I decided to increase the watering from 2 L each to 3 L each. They seem to be really sucking it back so it seems like it’s the right time. Also started watering a bit from the bottom, I’ve had good success with this method before. I gave them 2 L each from the top and 1 L each in their tray. Pro silicate, Cal Mag, Micro Grow and Bloom. PH 6.2 PPM 600. On the next feed in approximately six days, water feed water feed, I’m going to up the PPM to 800-900 and see if they can handle it. Lights remain the same height and intensity for now. I topped the banner OG on the last watering and she seems to be recovering perfectly. Trimmed a few of the lower branches that were nearly touching the dirt on the other three girls. All in all they are coming along nicely.

 

[CharlieWaffles]

Wow what a difference a feeding can make. Opened up the tent for my coffee smoke, and wow, look at these girls reaching!! GSC “C” looks like she’s reaching for the heavens. Must say I’ve never run my lights this low and I’m mighty impressed if that’s what’s prompting this surge towards the “sky”. Way to go @ViparSpectra

The Banner is recovering beautifully from her 1st topping.

 

[Delps8]

Wow what a difference a feeding can make. Opened up the tent for my coffee smoke, and wow, look at these girls reaching!! GSC “C” looks like she’s reaching for the heavens. Must say I’ve never run my lights this low and I’m mighty impressed if that’s what’s prompting this surge towards the “sky”. Way to go @ViparSpectra

The Banner is recovering beautifully from her 1st topping.

[I've been at a conference for a few days so I'm catching up]

Looking really good!

"look at these girls reaching!!"
Cannabis responds well to "lotsa light".

You've posted a few messages about the soil getting dry. I'm a hydro grower so I don't have in-depth knowledge but I have read postings about soil turning hydrophobic when it gets very dry. That can cause "all sortsa hell". In fact, that was the cause of one grower whose plant couldn't handle a PPFD of > 500µmols - the soil deep in the pot had dried hard as a rock and the plant was showing light avoidance at < 500µmols.

What PPFD readings are you getting? (Photone or Uni-T or both?) My last grow (two plants) had DLI's of 32 and 41. The plant at 32 had problems as a seedling. By day 39, they were both at 60+DLI.

"I’m going to up the PPM to 800-900 and see if they can handle it" - because…

The goal of providing ferts to plants is to get them in the sufficiency range. Above that, the toxicity range, can cause problems that are very hard to diagnose and, as I understand it, high levels of ferts cause far more problems than levels that are too low. Even as large (> 50") and old (110+ days) as my plants have gotten, I don't recall having a PPM of much over 800/500. Hydro is different from soil - don't know if that would make a difference.

 

[CharlieWaffles]

[I've been at a conference for a few days so I'm catching up]

Looking really good!

"look at these girls reaching!!"
Cannabis responds well to "lotsa light".

You've posted a few messages about the soil getting dry. I'm a hydro grower so I don't have in-depth knowledge but I have read postings about soil turning hydrophobic when it gets very dry. That can cause "all sortsa hell". In fact, that was the cause of one grower whose plant couldn't handle a PPFD of > 500µmols - the soil deep in the pot had dried hard as a rock and the plant was showing light avoidance at < 500µmols.

What PPFD readings are you getting? (Photone or Uni-T or both?) My last grow (two plants) had DLI's of 32 and 41. The plant at 32 had problems as a seedling. By day 39, they were both at 60+DLI.

"I’m going to up the PPM to 800-900 and see if they can handle it" - because…

The goal of providing ferts to plants is to get them in the sufficiency range. Above that, the toxicity range, can cause problems that are very hard to diagnose and, as I understand it, high levels of ferts cause far more problems than levels that are too low. Even as large (> 50") and old (110+ days) as my plants have gotten, I don't recall having a PPM of much over 800/500. Hydro is different from soil - don't know if that would make a difference.

Hey thanks for the thoughts/tips. I don’t believe I am letting the pots dry out too much. They are just drinking quicker than I expected at this point. I’ve not had any type of drooping, so all good. Just surprise.

Using the iPhone Photone app. Currently about 700 PPFD at approx 20” height.

 

[CharlieWaffles]

Day 32 update

Ladies are looking really fine. They are filling out at a great rate and quickly getting taller. Had to move the light up a few inches. Lights are at 50% and 500-700 PPFD. Increased their water amount once again from 3 litres to 4 litres each. Next watering I am going to water to runoff. They are big enough now. Trimmed and tucked some fan leaves and removed some lower bud sites. Humidity is 50% and temp 23°C.
Thanks for looking

 

[Ke0ncp]

Looking good there!

 

[CharlieWaffles]

This is my first time ever using fabric pots. So far the jury in my brain is still out on this decision. But one thing I’m noticing is when I used plastic pots I was able to drill holes in the top/sides to use for tying down the plants when doing low stress training. But now with the fabric pots I’m not really sure what to do. How are you all tying down your branches when using fabric pots?

 

[Absorber]

This is my first time ever using fabric pots. So far the jury in my brain is still out on this decision. But one thing I’m noticing is when I used plastic pots I was able to drill holes in the top/sides to use for tying down the plants when doing low stress training. But now with the fabric pots I’m not really sure what to do. How are you all tying down your branches when using fabric pots?

Those steal spring binder clips from office supplies I've seen people using them to tie too

 

[Absorber]

This is my first time ever using fabric pots. So far the jury in my brain is still out on this decision. But one thing I’m noticing is when I used plastic pots I was able to drill holes in the top/sides to use for tying down the plants when doing low stress training. But now with the fabric pots I’m not really sure what to do. How are you all tying down your branches when using fabric pots?

These

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Carhooks.

They're bamboo skewers and gardening wire, invented by @Carcass .

 

[CharlieWaffles]

Carhooks.

They're bamboo skewers and gardening wire, invented by @Carcass .

Yessssir that looks great! Thanks a lot!!

 

[Delps8]

Those steal spring binder clips from office supplies I've seen people using them to tie too

Binder clips are commonly used (I've got a few extra boxes but at 6700km, it's a bit of a drive) but I've seen some growers put grommets in the fabric of the pots.

Below is a picture of my res, when new, so things are a little more complicated. There's always the option of drilling holes in the top but I chose to use S hooks and fishing weights/sinkers and it's worked out pretty well.

My res is plastic/fiberglass. I could drill holes in the top but I chose another approach - I hang small fishing weights/sinkers from S hooks. It's worked out well.

That one set of weights is ≈ 4 oz.

Clean up going into flower.

Weights work. This plant was topped and then LST'd. It ended up wider than it was tall.

 

[CharlieWaffles]

Day 37 Update

Wow are they ever getting bushy! Like 70’s porn! And their colours are amazing. Very lush. The pictures don’t do them justice. They are looking fabulous and drinking hungrily. They were fed yesterday to runoff. Each pot took 5 L to run through and the 3 gallon pot took 4.5 L to run through. PH 6.1 PPM 900. Recommended doses given of Pro-silicate, Cal-Mag, Micro, Grow, Bloom, except Grow was fed at a little over 1 1/2 times strength. I LST trained a bit and tied down a few branches. I think I actually waited too long to start LST’ing these girls. Not being able to look at them every day when you’re away at work for days at a time really impacts the grow. Thanks for the tips about using paper clips etc to @Melville Hobbes & @Absorber . I bent back and twisted many others to help them add strength also. We had one accident as you’ll see in the pictures. Hopefully the little splint and medical tape I put on helps her reattach herself. I guess we’ll know in 5 to 7 days or so. PPFD at top of canopy is 700, while the very lower portions are around 300. This is all according to the crappy iPhone Photone app. Temperature is approx 21°C and RH around 60%. Next watering in 3-5 days will be plain water only PH’d accordingly.

Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Ke0ncp]

Looking great there @CharlieWaffles! Excited to watch this grow as I will be doing a banner photo next grow

 

[CharlieWaffles]

Looking great there @CharlieWaffles! Excited to watch this grow as I will be doing a banner photo next grow

Definitely one of my favs! Can’t wait to start the next Banner grow already.