Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

[ronnie6690]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

I go off par ratings, minimum distance for advanced DS panels is 18" for DS 200 that's about 900 um/s. but in different stages plants require less light. right now since I just transplanted clones into my system my lights are 54" from tops. that's about 300 um/s

here is a par rating guide from LUSH Lightings site:

seedling / clone = 150-300 micromoles/s 5000-15000 lumens
adolescent veg = 300-500 micromoles/s 15000-30000 lumens
fully developed veg = 300-1000 micromoles/s 20000-60000 lumens
bloom/ flower = 500-1300 micromoles/s 30000-80000 lumens

knowing your lamps par rating is very helpful

 

[Renegade69]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

I go off par ratings, minimum distance for advanced DS panels is 18" for DS 200 that's about 900 um/s. but in different stages plants require less light. right now since I just transplanted clones into my system my lights are 54" from tops. that's about 300 um/s

here is a par rating guide from LUSH Lightings site:

seedling / clone = 150-300 um/s 5000-15000 lumens
adolescent veg = 300-500 um/s 15000-30000 lumens
fully developed veg = 300-1000 um/s 20000-60000 lumens
bloom/ flower = 500-1300 um/s 30000-80000 lumens

knowing your lamps par rating is very helpful

Ronnie,

New topic for me. If I couldn't figure out it than just sticking to the manufactures recommendations is best for me. To me you just spoke in a foreign language...lol.

 

[Shrike]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

Subbed...sorry, would have been in the first day, but I was on a road trip with very limited Internet access for the last week. Good to be home and catching up on all the Forum threads...

Looks like a good side by side, Crawdaddy

 

[NorCalRider]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

Subbed, looking forward to the results. I am considering 6 of the Mars2 1200's for my room. Loving this forum, seems like a bunch of great and helpful folks.

 

[Christine Green]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

Looking awesome Crawdaddy!

 

[ecofrog]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

I go off par ratings, minimum distance for advanced DS panels is 18" for DS 200 that's about 900 um/s. but in different stages plants require less light. right now since I just transplanted clones into my system my lights are 54" from tops. that's about 300 um/s

here is a par rating guide from LUSH Lightings site:

seedling / clone = 150-300 um/s 5000-15000 lumens
adolescent veg = 300-500 um/s 15000-30000 lumens
fully developed veg = 300-1000 um/s 20000-60000 lumens
bloom/ flower = 500-1300 um/s 30000-80000 lumens

knowing your lamps par rating is very helpful

The fixture rating isnt as important as measuring in the real world grow rooms at canopy. My experience is that ~ 600umol with full spectrum LED and ~ 1000umol of HPS at canopy is more than fine. And i veg just fine to 16" tall with t5's which max out around 600umol at bulb. And my clones do fine at 100umol of T5's which is about 12" from bulbs. Im currently testing full spectrum topLED's @ 80% those numbers with what seems like a 1-1 replacement of growth. There is alot of literature that talks about other plant needs and ~ 500umol is a point of diminishing return for basil and cucumbers, FWIW.

My guess for the reason they are suggesting so high numbers is the LED lack of penetration which can be fixed by proper distribution of lights and/or inter canopy lighting. LED's are more like a focused lazers than a HID bulbs and lighting distribution becomes more important than HID technology. erm well its always important but HID is hard to distribute vs LED's and even CFL's. 1 bright ass fixture is a poor design and a waste of $ over a more focused, better distributed lighting sources like inter canopy. Google scholar 'inter canopy lighting' for plenty of papers on the subject.

 

[ecofrog]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

I am considering 6 of the Mars2 1200's for my room.

3 of the 3w x 100 is equal watts to 1 x mars 1200. 3 different directions are better than 1 big bright light in the center. Also, i believe its less expensive. Lastly, you can get closer to 3w fixtures than 5w which is likely an advantage. Just a suggestion...

 

[ecofrog]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

My experience is that ~ 600umol with full spectrum LED and ~ 1000umol of HPS at canopy is more than fine. And i veg just fine to 16" tall with t5's which max out around 600umol at bulb. And my clones do fine at 100umol of T5's which is about 12" from bulbs. Im currently testing full spectrum topLED's @ 80% those numbers with what seems like a 1-1 replacement of growth. There is alot of literature that talks about other plant needs and ~ 500umol is a point of diminishing return for basil and cucumbers, FWIW.

By the way, this is from an Apogee meter. Other meters will give different results and will very depending on light sources, etc. As long as im internally constant, it shouldnt matter much.

 

[Crawdaddy]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

I go off par ratings, minimum distance for advanced DS panels is 18" for DS 200 that's about 900 um/s. but in different stages plants require less light. right now since I just transplanted clones into my system my lights are 54" from tops. that's about 300 um/s

here is a par rating guide from LUSH Lightings site:

seedling / clone = 150-300 micromoles/s 5000-15000 lumens
adolescent veg = 300-500 micromoles/s 15000-30000 lumens
fully developed veg = 300-1000 micromoles/s 20000-60000 lumens
bloom/ flower = 500-1300 micromoles/s 30000-80000 lumens

knowing your lamps par rating is very helpful

The fixture rating isnt as important as measuring in the real world grow rooms at canopy. My experience is that ~ 600umol with full spectrum LED and ~ 1000umol of HPS at canopy is more than fine. And i veg just fine to 16" tall with t5's which max out around 600umol at bulb. And my clones do fine at 100umol of T5's which is about 12" from bulbs. Im currently testing full spectrum topLED's @ 80% those numbers with what seems like a 1-1 replacement of growth. There is alot of literature that talks about other plant needs and ~ 500umol is a point of diminishing return for basil and cucumbers, FWIW.

My guess for the reason they are suggesting so high numbers is the LED lack of penetration which can be fixed by proper distribution of lights and/or inter canopy lighting. LED's are more like a focused lazers than a HID bulbs and lighting distribution becomes more important than HID technology. erm well its always important but HID is hard to distribute vs LED's and even CFL's. 1 bright ass fixture is a poor design and a waste of $ over a more focused, better distributed lighting sources like inter canopy. Google scholar 'inter canopy lighting' for plenty of papers on the subject.

Interesting stuff guys, but I always thought the penetration of LED was one of their bonuses, not negatives. But I have not used HID lighting since the 90's so hard for me to say.

Subbed...sorry, would have been in the first day, but I was on a road trip with very limited Internet access for the last week. Good to be home and catching up on all the Forum threads...

Looks like a good side by side, Crawdaddy

Better late then never

Subbed, looking forward to the results. I am considering 6 of the Mars2 1200's for my room. Loving this forum, seems like a bunch of great and helpful folks.

I have one of the Mars 1200's in my 4X4 tent(seems to work great), but I wanted to use the 3W reflector for this test as I not have another 5W diode panel and the DS 200 is 3W.

Looking awesome Crawdaddy!

Thanks!

3 of the 3w x 100 is equal watts to 1 x mars 1200. 3 different directions are better than 1 big bright light in the center. Also, i believe its less expensive. Lastly, you can get closer to 3w fixtures than 5w which is likely an advantage. Just a suggestion...

I would respectfully disagree, I think the 5W are more efficient so more light per watt used. Plus the penetrations is better, but yes could be closer. I doubt be that great of a difference though. But yes could probably get plants closer to panel with 3W.

Mars 2 1200 draw: 520-600 W $470.39

98X3w Reflector 170-200 W 3 go for $514.47

So close, but the Mars 2 1200 is better 'deal', even more so if indeed 5W diode more efficient then 3W,

 

[Renegade69]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

Keep up the chatter guys this is great.

Thank you CrawDaddy for doing this side by side comparison.

 

[ecofrog]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

Interesting stuff guys, but I always thought the penetration of LED was one of their bonuses.

I would respectfully disagree, I think the 5W are more efficient so more light per watt used. Plus the penetrations is better, but yes could be closer. I doubt be that great of a difference though. But yes could probably get plants closer to panel with 3W.

Mars 2 1200 draw: 520-600 W $470.39

98X3w Reflector 170-200 W 3 go for $514.47

So close, but the Mars 2 1200 is better 'deal', even more so if indeed 5W diode more efficient then 3W,

I was referring to this light which is only $128. So if you redo your numbers...

Also what we call penetration (lets ignore the mrs definition) is a function of a few different properties of the grow room. Direction, absolute umol numbers, reflection, all contribute to penetration. More direction is a huge factor. The best growroom design would be like a barrel lined with 1w lights and 1 plant.

Lastly, i assume a 1w is most efficient watt/output > 3w > 5w. Is this assumption wrong?

 

[Crawdaddy]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

ecofrog,

Ahh the old school 3w design, I forgot about it. Weird that it has 4 more diodes then the 96X3W but less power draw (150-170W vs 170-200W), but only $382.17 for 3.

I wish TopLED would have lumen or PAR numbers for their lights. I could measure of course if had light meter.

I have no idea where, but I am remembering reading somewhere that, in general, the higher wattage diodes are more efficient, as in less heat output vs same light output, but since they are brighter individually they run hotter, but still more efficient. I could of course be wrong.

I will have to see if i can find this info.

 

[Crawdaddy]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

Keep up the chatter guys this is great.

Thank you CrawDaddy for doing this side by side comparison.

My pleasure, hopefully have some good conclusions in end.

 

[CareStaker]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

I've not seen this on Advanced site, or anywhere else for that matter, so I'll post in hopes it's helpful.
Par numbers for the DS200 -- PAR@18" (457nm) 460um I'm assuming per square meter/s.

The most recent efficiency breakthroughs (Cree), are coming from larger wattage, single die chips. Blue is more efficient than Red, so color ratio matters too. Drive current also. Running them at <75% of their thermal design, will make them more efficient as well.

 

[ronnie6690]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

I've not seen this on Advanced site, or anywhere else for that matter, so I'll post in hopes it's helpful.
Par numbers for the DS200 -- PAR@18" (457nm) 460um I'm assuming per square meter/s.

The most recent efficiency breakthroughs (Cree), are coming from larger wattage, single die chips. Blue is more efficient than Red, so color ratio matters too. Drive current also. Running them at <75% of their thermal design, will make them more efficient as well.

I was told by Advanced Led that the par rating for a DS 200 is 917 um/s at 18"

 

[Crawdaddy]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

Someone needs a good light meter, but i bet a good one is $$$$$.

 

[CareStaker]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

I was told by Advanced Led that the par rating for a DS 200 is 917 um/s at 18"

Hey Ronnie, I read your post, but somehow missed that you were attributing that PAR to the 200. I have differing data, from where I purchased, which is still listed online. I can provide a link if you want. I also saved the info-graphic. I can post them, or PM them if anyone wants. If it's really 917 um, that would be incredible, as - full disclosure - I have three of their lights.

 

[Growingnow]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

You can get a get light meter for cheap just look around now days it can all be found with google and time. Gotta love the intraweb and good smoke

 

[Crawdaddy]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

From a quick search, Lumen light meters on the order of 20-30 dollars

Par light meters >$200

 

[ronnie6690]

re: Advanced LED vs TopLED Side By Side Comparison - Hawaiian Snow & Blueberry

From a quick search, Lumen light meters on the order of 20-30 dollars

Par light meters >$200

Lumens is good to know , but isn't a tell all measurement. lumens measures light humans can see , not light plants can use.
too bad the par meters are so expensive I'd like to test my panels, instead of trusting the manufactures claims.