Anyone tried Karanja seed meal plus Neem seed meal to fight off bugs?

Phillybonker

Phillybonker

Well-Known Member
I've read that neem seed meal, especially when it is combined with karanja seed meal does a good job of fighting off bugs. Has anyone used these ingredients before?, if so, what was your experience?
 
I have not used either one, but read up a little on them.

What are you making with them tea?

Sound effective.
 
Just realize that while the meal itself is a good soil amendment and will help combat things like fungus gnats, nematodes and other bugs that are in the soil during at least one phase of their lives. It won't do too much to things like spider mites, aphids, and to some extent thrips (which only sometimes have a soil phase), it won't do a lot. Neem/Karanja oils (as well as most other essential oils like rosemary oil, and soaps) have insecticidal action. Insect don't have lungs, they breath through a network of tracheae tubules. The tubules bring O2 directly to the organ/system through the insects exoskeleton, oils plug up the tubules and suffocate the insect. In order to be effective the entire insect needs to be coated with the oil.

Just did a little more reading on Neem oil and found that it is banned in the UK as an insecticide. and not approved as an insecticide in Canada, due to potential health effects from exposure to high concentrations.
 
Phytoplankton said:
Just did a little more reading on Neem oil and found that it is banned in the UK as an insecticide. and not approved as an insecticide in Canada, due to potential health effects from exposure to high concentrations.
Click to expand...
Not sure if completely here in Oregon but was some issues:
Oregon Department of Agriculture (ODA) reports that testing of six different commercial neem-oil products labeled for organic use showed that all six tested positive for several active ingredients not listed on the label, including the synthetic pesticides Malathion, Chlorpyrifos, and Permethrin, as well as several other non-organic active ingredients.
Click to expand...

One of them to each their own, but personally I don't like using chemicals or I use as little as possible.....just have to be careful as organic/natural/etc.. doesn't always mean it is safe in all applications. Poison Oak is all natural/organic too ;) :rofl: . Especially if you smoking as it's a fast track into the blood stream, whereas stuff in our food not as much of things end up in the blood stream.
 
I believe there is a product that you add to soil to stop "infestion" If interested will find name of product ? (chemical)
 
I use both Karanja and neem meal in my soil mix, they are amendments used in "Coot's soil mix". I also use site sponsor @Sierra Natural Science SNS 209 soil drench for my weekly IPM with great success.

:passitleft:
 
Phytoplankton said:
Just realize that while the meal itself is a good soil amendment and will help combat things like fungus gnats, nematodes and other bugs that are in the soil during at least one phase of their lives. It won't do too much to things like spider mites, aphids, and to some extent thrips (which only sometimes have a soil phase), it won't do a lot. Neem/Karanja oils (as well as most other essential oils like rosemary oil, and soaps) have insecticidal action. Insect don't have lungs, they breath through a network of tracheae tubules. The tubules bring O2 directly to the organ/system through the insects exoskeleton, oils plug up the tubules and suffocate the insect. In order to be effective the entire insect needs to be coated with the oil.

Just did a little more reading on Neem oil and found that it is banned in the UK as an insecticide. and not approved as an insecticide in Canada, due to potential health effects from exposure to high concentrations.
Click to expand...
Hmmm I was of the understanding that plants takes up the neem/karanja through the roots and it sits in the stem and leaves. Anything that bites into the leaves or stem gets a taste of neem/karanja and buggers off.
 
Phillybonker said:
Does it help control bug numbers on the plants or not really?
Click to expand...
YES, I am not seeing any bugs or gnats (indoor grow) ... I also keep worms in my LOS and they are thriving.
:hookah:
 
Phillybonker said:
I've read that neem seed meal, especially when it is combined with karanja seed meal does a good job of fighting off bugs. Has anyone used these ingredients before?, if so, what was your experience?
Click to expand...
Yes I do all the time. Its the Neem seed meal not the Karanja that fends off pests.

The active ingredient (Azadirachtin) in neem oil is pressed from the seeds and those spent pressings are your neem cake/meal. Add them to your soil at 1/2 cup each per cubic foot of soil (7.5gal). Can top dress as well. Karanja cake/meal is used as an organic slow release fertilizer/amendment for your soil.


The Neen cak/meal still retains about 40% of the azadactrin and will work fine in the soil for "most" pests.

I use both - in my soil mix and as amendments.

Neem cake and the active ingredient in Neem is systemic in plants.

What does that mean? It means you can add neem cake to your soil and the active ingredient will get into the plants and be mildly systemic against plant sucking insects.

Fungus gnats eggs are laid in the soil. The neem cake added as an amendment will tco those.

Regarding neem OIL - yeah dont use it on plants you want to eat/smoke ingest.
The main reason it will ruin the flavor of you flowers - nasty stuff. Better to purchase a product like TakeDown which is concentrated azadactrin and foliar on when/if you need it.

Here's your read on it from Oregon State University - its organic.

Profiles of Organic Pesticides



Good stuff.
 
Phillybonker said:
Hmmm I was of the understanding that plants takes up the neem/karanja through the roots and it sits in the stem and leaves. Anything that bites into the leaves or stem gets a taste of neem/karanja and buggers off.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, then it's a systemic poison. I personally would not use any systemic poison on my plants. You'll end up smoking it.
 
Now this was a study in aspen trees, but it probably works quite similarly in marijuana.
From an article entitled:

Uptake, translocation, persistence and fate of azadirachtin​

"A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A) was applied to the soil around the root system of potted aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) plants. The uptake, translocation, persistence and dissipation of the chemical in the plants were studied. The effect of foliar residues of AZ-A on two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch) populations was also evaluated. The compound was taken up by the root system within 3 h and translocated in the stem and foliage within 3 days, confirming that AZ-A is systemic. The peak concentrations (μg/g, fresh weight) of AZ-A occurred at 10 days post-treatment, and were distributed in roots, stem and foliage in the ratio of 8.1:1.0:2.3, respectively. The rate of dissipation of AZ-A from the matrices was moderately rapid, and the residual concentrations on the last day of sampling (50 days post-treatment) in roots, stem and foliage were in the ratio 2.7:1.0:1.2, respectively. Control of mites by AZ-A residues in foliage was statistically significant, and the bioactivity declined within 30 days. The final residue of AZ-A in the soil after 50 days was about 25% of the initial value, with a half-life of dissipation of about 26 days."

I could find no studies of the effect of smoking Azadirachtin, and it has been potentially linked to Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome. It's estimated that about 50% of cannabis sold in dispensaries has some degree of Azadirachtin contamination. To each his own, but I'm gonna err on the side of caution. Eating something and smoking it are entirely different, as the combustion process can seriously alter a chemical and it's effects. Lastly, organic does not necessarily mean safe! Cyanide is organic and found in the seeds of several trees, ricin is organic (from Castor beans) but neither are safe.
 
bobrown14 said:
Yes I do all the time. Its the Neem seed meal not the Karanja that fends off pests.

The active ingredient (Azadirachtin) in neem oil is pressed from the seeds and those spent pressings are your neem cake/meal. Add them to your soil at 1/2 cup each per cubic foot of soil (7.5gal). Can top dress as well. Karanja cake/meal is used as an organic slow release fertilizer/amendment for your soil.


The Neen cak/meal still retains about 40% of the azadactrin and will work fine in the soil for "most" pests.

I use both - in my soil mix and as amendments.

Neem cake and the active ingredient in Neem is systemic in plants.

What does that mean? It means you can add neem cake to your soil and the active ingredient will get into the plants and be mildly systemic against plant sucking insects.

Fungus gnats eggs are laid in the soil. The neem cake added as an amendment will tco those.

Regarding neem OIL - yeah dont use it on plants you want to eat/smoke ingest.
The main reason it will ruin the flavor of you flowers - nasty stuff. Better to purchase a product like TakeDown which is concentrated azadactrin and foliar on when/if you need it.

Here's your read on it from Oregon State University - its organic.

Profiles of Organic Pesticides



Good stuff.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information. I'm getting problems with spider mites, passionfruit hoppers ad other nasty things so I'm definitely going to give it a try.
 
Look up a product called AgroMagen…
Mite just be the ticket.
 
I found this on the web:

Neemand Karanja

Azadirachtaindica and Pongamia pinnata

HISTORYAND BACKGROUND:

Neem(Azadirachta indica) is a medium sized and drought tolerant evergreen tree endemic to south Asia. It blooms in Southern India beginning in April and harvest occurs between June to August. The perennial tree can live to be200-300 years old and its use dates back to the Vedic Period (2000-4000 BC).Ancient Indian text reference neem as Sarva Roga Nivarini, “the curer of all ailments” due to its many and diverse uses 1. Every part of the Neem tree –the bark, leaves, flowers, seeds – has a use. Neem will likely play a large role insustainable farming practices globally as producers are beginning to recognize its potential as a bio-degradable, non-toxic, and effective alternative to agro-chemicals.2

Recent research has shown that neem extracts can influence nearly 300 species of insect, including some pests, such as floral thrips, diamond back moth, and several leaf miners, that have become increasingly resistant to pesticides. 3 Using neem products for botanical pest management is a non-violent approach as neem is not a pesticide, rather it works to intervene at several stages of the pests’ life cycle and will incapacitate the insects.4 Neem very subtly employs effects such as “repellence, feeding and ovipositional deterrence, growth inhibition, mating disruption, chemo-sterilization, etc.”5

Outside of agriculture, neem holds great potential to address serious environmental concerns associated with climate change, such as flood control, soil erosion reduction, less salination, reforestation and agroforestry, rehabilitation of degraded ecosystems and waste lands.6 Additionally, the neem tree has are markable ability to withstand air and water pollution and therefore is valuable in urban forestry projects.7 Neem products are of natural plant origin and have no ill-effects to humans and animals and have no residual effect on agriculture produce.8 It will not harm bees, lady bugs, or other beneficial insects!

(Pongamiapinnata) is a medium sized tree popularly known as Karanja in Hindi, Indianbeech in English, and Pongam in Tamil. It’s an adaptable tree for tropical and sub-tropical regions which requires well-drained soils and full sun. The tree is highly valuable for its oil content (seeds contain between 27-39% oil) and is being explored for its potential use as a renewable bio-fuel.9 Historically,Karanja has been used in India and neighboring regions as a source of traditional medicines, animal fodder, green manure, timber, fish poison, and fuel.10 Studies have shown that the extract from Karanja seed contains significant antidiarrheal 11, anti-fungal 12, anti-plasmodial 13,anti-inflammatory 14, anti-ulcerogenic 15, andantioxidant. 16 Karanja seed is richin protein and nitrogen and work well as a plant based, non-toxic, and effective “green manure” or organic fertilizer. Recent research suggests that Pongamia pinnata has similar antibacterial properties to neem. 17 When used in combination with neem, Karanja has been shown to be 70 times more effective in both oil and cake forms.18

The following are known benefits of neem and Karanja based on current literature and academic research:



  • Studies show that Karanja contains Phyto-chemicals which inhibit the growth of pathogenic microbes that cause diseases in plants.19
  • Completely biodegradable and leaves no residues.20
  • Rich in natural NPK and micronutrients
  • Controls nematode population and optimizes soil micro flora
  • Reduces use of chemical fertilizers
  • Reduces uses of insecticides
  • Improves water-holding capacity
  • Improves strength, flavor, quality, and product-life of crops
  • No effects on humans, no effect on non-target organisms.
  • Known to adversely affect root knot nematodes, termites, root grubs, pupae of insects, pupal of thrips, other soil pests, and harmful soil fungi.
 
Vegan4life said:
I found this on the web:

Neemand Karanja

Azadirachtaindica and Pongamia pinnata

HISTORYAND BACKGROUND:

Neem(Azadirachta indica) is a medium sized and drought tolerant evergreen tree endemic to south Asia. It blooms in Southern India beginning in April and harvest occurs between June to August. The perennial tree can live to be200-300 years old and its use dates back to the Vedic Period (2000-4000 BC).Ancient Indian text reference neem as Sarva Roga Nivarini, “the curer of all ailments” due to its many and diverse uses 1. Every part of the Neem tree –the bark, leaves, flowers, seeds – has a use. Neem will likely play a large role insustainable farming practices globally as producers are beginning to recognize its potential as a bio-degradable, non-toxic, and effective alternative to agro-chemicals.2

Recent research has shown that neem extracts can influence nearly 300 species of insect, including some pests, such as floral thrips, diamond back moth, and several leaf miners, that have become increasingly resistant to pesticides. 3 Using neem products for botanical pest management is a non-violent approach as neem is not a pesticide, rather it works to intervene at several stages of the pests’ life cycle and will incapacitate the insects.4 Neem very subtly employs effects such as “repellence, feeding and ovipositional deterrence, growth inhibition, mating disruption, chemo-sterilization, etc.”5

Outside of agriculture, neem holds great potential to address serious environmental concerns associated with climate change, such as flood control, soil erosion reduction, less salination, reforestation and agroforestry, rehabilitation of degraded ecosystems and waste lands.6 Additionally, the neem tree has are markable ability to withstand air and water pollution and therefore is valuable in urban forestry projects.7 Neem products are of natural plant origin and have no ill-effects to humans and animals and have no residual effect on agriculture produce.8 It will not harm bees, lady bugs, or other beneficial insects!

(Pongamiapinnata) is a medium sized tree popularly known as Karanja in Hindi, Indianbeech in English, and Pongam in Tamil. It’s an adaptable tree for tropical and sub-tropical regions which requires well-drained soils and full sun. The tree is highly valuable for its oil content (seeds contain between 27-39% oil) and is being explored for its potential use as a renewable bio-fuel.9 Historically,Karanja has been used in India and neighboring regions as a source of traditional medicines, animal fodder, green manure, timber, fish poison, and fuel.10 Studies have shown that the extract from Karanja seed contains significant antidiarrheal 11, anti-fungal 12, anti-plasmodial 13,anti-inflammatory 14, anti-ulcerogenic 15, andantioxidant. 16 Karanja seed is richin protein and nitrogen and work well as a plant based, non-toxic, and effective “green manure” or organic fertilizer. Recent research suggests that Pongamia pinnata has similar antibacterial properties to neem. 17 When used in combination with neem, Karanja has been shown to be 70 times more effective in both oil and cake forms.18

The following are known benefits of neem and Karanja based on current literature and academic research:



  • Studies show that Karanja contains Phyto-chemicals which inhibit the growth of pathogenic microbes that cause diseases in plants.19
  • Completely biodegradable and leaves no residues.20
  • Rich in natural NPK and micronutrients
  • Controls nematode population and optimizes soil micro flora
  • Reduces use of chemical fertilizers
  • Reduces uses of insecticides
  • Improves water-holding capacity
  • Improves strength, flavor, quality, and product-life of crops
  • No effects on humans, no effect on non-target organisms.
  • Known to adversely affect root knot nematodes, termites, root grubs, pupae of insects, pupal of thrips, other soil pests, and harmful soil fungi.
Click to expand...
Interesting read, Thank you:)
 
Phytoplankton said:
Now this was a study in aspen trees, but it probably works quite similarly in marijuana.
From an article entitled:

Uptake, translocation, persistence and fate of azadirachtin​

"A commercial neem formulation containing azadirachtin-A (AZ-A) was applied to the soil around the root system of potted aspen (Populus tremuloides Michx.) plants. The uptake, translocation, persistence and dissipation of the chemical in the plants were studied. The effect of foliar residues of AZ-A on two-spotted spider mite (Tetranychus urticae Koch) populations was also evaluated. The compound was taken up by the root system within 3 h and translocated in the stem and foliage within 3 days, confirming that AZ-A is systemic. The peak concentrations (μg/g, fresh weight) of AZ-A occurred at 10 days post-treatment, and were distributed in roots, stem and foliage in the ratio of 8.1:1.0:2.3, respectively. The rate of dissipation of AZ-A from the matrices was moderately rapid, and the residual concentrations on the last day of sampling (50 days post-treatment) in roots, stem and foliage were in the ratio 2.7:1.0:1.2, respectively. Control of mites by AZ-A residues in foliage was statistically significant, and the bioactivity declined within 30 days. The final residue of AZ-A in the soil after 50 days was about 25% of the initial value, with a half-life of dissipation of about 26 days."

I could find no studies of the effect of smoking Azadirachtin, and it has been potentially linked to Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome. It's estimated that about 50% of cannabis sold in dispensaries has some degree of Azadirachtin contamination. To each his own, but I'm gonna err on the side of caution. Eating something and smoking it are entirely different, as the combustion process can seriously alter a chemical and it's effects. Lastly, organic does not necessarily mean safe! Cyanide is organic and found in the seeds of several trees, ricin is organic (from Castor beans) but neither are safe.
Click to expand...
Did you read the article I posted from OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY?? Oregon is HUGE into cannabis for health.

OK that said. There's a difference in "commercial neem derived azadirachtin" than there is from spent neem seed husks ground up and added to soil.

Your argument that a poison is a poison is not really relevant here.

example:
You can drink enough water to kill yourself you know that right?

Its all about the dose.

Neem has been used in agriculture for 10s of thousands of years well before science was even a thing. The artcle above says 2-4000 years but its longer than that.

The question from the OP was about neem cake.... its not a poison. Its not the same as ricin or cyanide and is not harmful for hoo-man.

The studies are in... azadirachtin is ok to use on cannabis per Oregon State and they are probably one of the most strict states when it comes to pesticide use.
 
bobrown14 said:
Did you read the article I posted from OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY?? Oregon is HUGE into cannabis for health.

OK that said. There's a difference in "commercial neem derived azadirachtin" than there is from spent neem seed husks ground up and added to soil.

Your argument that a poison is a poison is not really relevant here.

example:
You can drink enough water to kill yourself you know that right?

Its all about the dose.

Neem has been used in agriculture for 10s of thousands of years well before science was even a thing. The artcle above says 2-4000 years but its longer than that.

The question from the OP was about neem cake.... its not a poison. Its not the same as ricin or cyanide and is not harmful for hoo-man.

The studies are in... azadirachtin is ok to use on cannabis per Oregon State and they are probably one of the most strict states when it comes to pesticide use.
Click to expand...
Like I said, I'll err on the side of caution before I put a systemic on my plants. I'm pretty sure both Canada and the UK banned Neem oil for a reason. Also, there are no studies of what happens to azadirachtin when it is burned, current studies all relate to oral ingestion.
 

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