Cannabis Dosing: Delivery Methods & Dosing Guidelines

[Amy Gardner]

So, it looks like a number of us want pain relief, to be alert enough to appreciate the reduction in pain, AND be able to function. IMO, I should not have to be passed out to reduce joint pain. That seems counter-productive to me.

Some of the methods here are way above my head, so I go dumb and simple: ingest the leaves, buds, and pods as a tincture, as a mash for capsules, or powdered for cooking and drinks. All of it is naturally decarbed, (cured), but from what I'm reading, this results in a partial decarb, which is fine with me.

I also watch how much I use, because I get royally couch-locked when I cook with too much powered leaves. ;-)

Hear hear on the joint pain relief without becoming catatonic.

SweetSue posted somewhere yesterday (either in the FHO thread or the holy grail thread, can't remember) that a partial decarb would leave more THC N (I think it was N) which is suspected to be anti-inflammatory. So I think it may actually be better in many cases where pain is part of an inflammatory condition (like RA, fibro or ME for example).

I'm thinking I'll do half the time next time I make an oil and see...

I'm like you with the heavy couch lock issue sometimes with certain parts - leaf seems to do it more for me.

I've been using a vaporizer a lot lately and I'm wondering if there's anything I can do with this vaped material that's not a waste. I thought about making some kind of edible with them but I can't imagine it tasting very good. On the upside it should all be decarboxolated already right? Am I spelling that right?

Anyway I'm not really sure what it would go well with for edibles and I wonder if using it for butter or oil would be any better. I don't really make a lot of stuff with butter or oil in the first place.

My other idea is a topical. I remember reading here a recipe for making coconut oil and then mixing that with beeswax.

Whether it's fully decarbed or not is going to depend on the temp you vape at. Because I never vape above 380deg F I know there's plenty left in the 'ABV' (recently learned this what the vape community call the left overs, stand for 'already been vaped').

I think your idea about a topical is the best - but maybe edibles too. I was thinking I'd try a topical for pain with it - THC is the desired thing in topicals...

But wait - just checked a chart I have and assuming it's accurate, after 400degF there's only THCV and CBC to go. THCV blocks THC so I don't think the topical would give much, but maybe I'm wrong. Both THCV and CBC are sedative, and have anti-oxidant and other great properties, including 'euphoriant' listed against the THCV. So , thinking about it again. You may be more onto something with the cooking- for some nighttime snacks. It may taste alright - it always smells kind of nutty.

That said I also know someone who quite happily takes it off my hands and smokes it - says it works just fine for getting stoned. So that's euphoria with possibly very little THC in the mix except as THCV...

I'm a bit delerious today. I could be rambling

I reckon if you did a web search for ways to use ABV you find a few gems.

And the place for topicals is Magnus8's thread... Canna cream & canna butter etc. ...


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[TheFertilizer]

Hear hear on the joint pain relief without becoming catatonic.

SweetSue posted somewhere yesterday (either in the FHO thread or the holy grail thread, can't remember) that a partial decarb would leave more THC N (I think it was N) which is suspected to be anti-inflammatory. So I think it may actually be better in many cases where pain is part of an inflammatory condition (like RA, fibro or ME for example).

I'm thinking I'll do half the time next time I make an oil and see...

I'm like you with the heavy couch lock issue sometimes with certain parts - leaf seems to do it more for me.



Whether it's fully decarbed or not is going to depend on the temp you vape at. Because I never vape above 380deg F I know there's plenty left in the 'ABV' (recently learned this what the vape community call the left overs, stand for 'already been vaped').

I think your idea about a topical is the best - but maybe edibles too. I was thinking I'd try a topical for pain with it - THC is the desired thing in topicals...

But wait - just checked a chart I have and assuming it's accurate, after 400degF there's only THCV and CBC to go. THCV blocks THC so I don't think the topical would give much, but maybe I'm wrong. Both THCV and CBC are sedative, and have anti-oxidant and other great properties, including 'euphoriant' listed against the THCV. So , thinking about it again. You may be more onto something with the cooking- for some nighttime snacks. It may taste alright - it always smells kind of nutty.

That said I also know someone who quite happily takes it off my hands and smokes it - says it works just fine for getting stoned. So that's euphoria with possibly very little THC in the mix except as THCV...

I'm a bit delerious today. I could be rambling

I reckon if you did a web search for ways to use ABV you find a few gems.

And the place for topicals is Magnus8's thread... Canna cream & canna butter etc. ...


.

Yeah I've heard it called that a lot before, but didn't find anything in the search results when looking for that.

I've vaped most of my stuff between 355-380, the majority being in the 380 range. It comes out looking quite brown and like there wouldn't be much left except the cannabinoids with the highest evaporation point.

I've smoked the stuff before and can't stand the taste, that's why I didn't think it would be very good in anything as an edible. The smell isn't too obtrusive though so maybe eating it in its raw form rather than burning it would make a big difference. I thought it smelled like it would go well in banana bread.

 

[SweetSue]

Yeah I've heard it called that a lot before, but didn't find anything in the search results when looking for that.

I've vaped most of my stuff between 355-380, the majority being in the 380 range. It comes out looking quite brown and like there wouldn't be much left except the cannabinoids with the highest evaporation point.

I've smoked the stuff before and can't stand the taste, that's why I didn't think it would be very good in anything as an edible. The smell isn't too obtrusive though so maybe eating it in its raw form rather than burning it would make a big difference. I thought it smelled like it would go well in banana bread.

It's THCa Amy.

I eat the ABV right out of the chamber, like popcorn. I'm not thinking about getting high with it, just looking to get more cannabinoids into the system.

 

[Amy Gardner]

It's THCa Amy.

I eat the ABV right out of the chamber, like popcorn. I'm not thinking about getting high with it, just looking to get more cannabinoids into the system.

Thanks Sue .

The chart I have says THCa burns off at 248degF and THCv burns off at 428degF. Maybe the chart is wrong. I'd better check, I use this chart to guide my vaping. .

 

[AKgramma]

Tho not as technical as most of your posts are on this thread, this is the closest topic of yours I could find to share my latest Meatloaf Muffin method of taking in Cannibus.

My goal, for those who have not seen my posts, is to find the dosage of dried and ground herbs that don't make me high, but still give pain relief for Osteoarthritis.

The important ratio that works for me is how much herb to how much lean ground meat.

Preheat your oven to 350 deg. F

1) The herb: 1/2 cup ground leaves, minibuds, and male pods (when available). The resulting herb is a mix of strains, gathered when I trim out the plants during the grow. No decarb necessary. Cured is preferred, but not required.

2) 2 pounds ground lean meat. Most meat has enough fat in it to absorb the herb while cooking.

3) Add 1 and 2 to the rest of your favorite recipe for meatloaf.

4) Spray or otherwise grease 2 large-capacity muffin tins. These are sold as 6 cups to a tray, and you will get anywhere from 8 to 12 muffins, depending on how many other ingredients you use in your recipe.

5) Fill each muffin cup full, unless you are using uncooked rice and extra liquid. Then I would fill half-full. Bread cubes or stuffing mix will not expand like rice will, so fill to the top.

6) Cover each tray with aluminum foil for thorough cooking

7) Bake for 1 hour, then turn off oven and remove the foil to allow for browning, while the oven cools down.

8) Freeze each muffin in a ziplock bag for a single-serving, microwavable snack later on. (save one for your sample)

9) My dosage is one muffin. This dosage is equal to 1/2 cup divided by the number of muffins you make.

This dosage should not make you high, unless you are just starting out. If your sample DOES make you high, next time eat 1/2 a muffin until you adjust to eating a whole one without the stoner effects.

I hope this is helpful, and in the right place. Feel free to copy to the correct forum if not.

 

[SweetSue]

Tho not as technical as most of your posts are on this thread, this is the closest topic of yours I could find to share my latest Meatloaf Muffin method of taking in Cannibus.

My goal, for those who have not seen my posts, is to find the dosage of dried and ground herbs that don't make me high, but still give pain relief for Osteoarthritis.

The important ratio that works for me is how much herb to how much lean ground meat.

Preheat your oven to 350 deg. F

1) The herb: 1/2 cup ground leaves, minibuds, and male pods (when available). The resulting herb is a mix of strains, gathered when I trim out the plants during the grow. No decarb necessary. Cured is preferred, but not required.

2) 2 pounds ground lean meat. Most meat has enough fat in it to absorb the herb while cooking.

3) Add 1 and 2 to the rest of your favorite recipe for meatloaf.

4) Spray or otherwise grease 2 large-capacity muffin tins. These are sold as 6 cups to a tray, and you will get anywhere from 8 to 12 muffins, depending on how many other ingredients you use in your recipe.

5) Fill each muffin cup full, unless you are using uncooked rice and extra liquid. Then I would fill half-full. Bread cubes or stuffing mix will not expand like rice will, so fill to the top.

6) Cover each tray with aluminum foil for thorough cooking

7) Bake for 1 hour, then turn off oven and remove the foil to allow for browning, while the oven cools down.

8) Freeze each muffin in a ziplock bag for a single-serving, microwavable snack later on. (save one for your sample)

9) My dosage is one muffin. This dosage is equal to 1/2 cup divided by the number of muffins you make.

This dosage should not make you high, unless you are just starting out. If your sample DOES make you high, next time eat 1/2 a muffin until you adjust to eating a whole one without the stoner effects.

I hope this is helpful, and in the right place. Feel free to copy to the correct forum if not.

Forgive me for taking so long to check in on this. My mistake apparently, after reading what you left. This is a delightful recipe that serves a great purpose in dosing.

Speaking of dosing, yours would be called "casual dosing" in Dr. Frankel's medically-structured world. Pharmaceuticals sure did train our doctors to be methodical to the mg, didn't they? Here's Dr. Frankel's discussion of his policy of "focused dosing."

[video=youtube;/4qN5-NghUSY]https:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=/4qN5-NghUSY[/video]

Now.....the good doctor makes some excellent points on dosing, and I value his experience, and truly appreciate his sharing that knowledge with us out here in the trenches.

This move to tightly control the cannabinoid dose to metered milligrams disturbs me. It feels wrong on a very basic level, and although I can't articulate it properly yet, I know this isn't something I want to back. This plant was used to assist healing for as far back as we can look. Maybe it's my displeasure with the hell the pharmaceutical companies unleashed on us and all the needless suffering they've profited from, but I strongly resist making cannabis medications conform to the constraints of pharma meds dosing procedures.

Can we learn to control illness with metered doses? Absolutely, and for those still caught up in the myth that there's something to fear from THC and the euphoric experience, this is a wonderful advancement. Let's keep refining it.

But let's not start some dialogue that makes "casual dosing" something that's seen as a second-tier medical approach. In my world my breakfast brownies are superior meds, in the same way your meatloaf muffins will be a godsend to anyone who gives them a try in hopes of countering the creeping aches and pains.

Neither of us need call our doctor to tell him how we're doing on our regimens, do we? Not a lot of money to be made by us "casual" dosers, unless you look at the money we spend on our grows.

You need your doctor to monitor your pharma drugs because they can make your life a living hell if you don't. No such danger exists with cannabis. Yes, we like to have our hands held when we're sick, but we seem to have trained ourselves to look outside ourselves for the answers that only come from within. Cannabis is not only the safest medication we can choose, IMHO, but it'll make you more aware of what you're body is doing.

Methinks I've developed a distrust for doctors. Even the friendly ones make me uneasy. We're evolved to heal. That's a message I haven't heard a single one try to get out there. It's all about dependence. Cannabis is all about individuality and independence.

*sigh* I believe this fearless woman will continue to encourage more to hear the healing potential of their own cells calling them to homeostasis and work out more casual ways to heal with the help of this lovely plant we all adore. I still have five in bloom. The apartment smells amazing!

Hadn't considered until this very moment the therapeutic effects of raising cannabis from the perspective of the terpenes you're inhaling. Think of it, the terps direct the action of the cannabinoids, they cause the "effect" you feel from the cannabinoids. We dote over our charges, so we'd be getting a lion's share, on a daily basis. This has to be having a healing effect. It would work with the ECS in the same way, and most of us have a steady supply of cannabinoids in our systems.

 

[AKgramma]

I agree 100% with you, Sue. We should not be feeding our tendencies to overthink our use of Cannibus. We want our plants to be perfect, our dosages to be perfect, and drive ourselves crazy looking for that perfection.

I am also not as concerned about keeping all the products of my grows sorted by strain. I do separate the buds for smoking, and let the family sniff all the jars to choose whatever floats their boats. It's the terpenes, for sure, because I have one example of the same strain from two different grows, one cured for a year and one cured for a couple months. The difference in smell is amazing.

The older cure smells heavily of pine. The more recent cure smells of spice. Same strain, all clones from the same mother.

All the rest: mini-buds, leaves, and male plant parts, get mixed together and ground to be used for cooking or addition to a hot drink. Dosing is just a matter of amount, like I laid out in the meatloaf muffin recipe. One serving of muffin or meat stew is preventative, two servings will give you at least a buzz. And these are made without the conversion to cannabudder.

So far, everything I have grown has had the same basic ancestry with a different father added to create a named strain. After writing out their lineages, I can eliminate a couple strains and still have a rich ancestry that brings the best to the strain.

Now the seeds I've obtained as gifts, esp the CBD and the autos, I'll approach differently. I'll be careful to clone the CBDs and try to keep a mother going, and I know the autos are a one-time deal, unless I cross them with a male. Even then, I don't know if the offspring will be auto or photo (probably 50% of each).

So many choices, so little time and even less room to experiment!

 

[SweetSue]

Boy, do I ever hear you girl! I won that second GROWant light and that's got me thinkin'...... Hahaha! Never enough space or time. I'm on the verge of finally getting down to a workable number.

I like the way you put it "We should not be feeding our tendencies to overthink our use of cannabis." It's healing ability is so closely related to how you think that it simply can't be catorgorized like pharma drugs. Incorporate it into your life as a nutrient and let the cells take what they need. Supply a continuious and diversified cannabinoid and terpene profile and let nature take its course.

That's what's really going on anyway. We fool ourselves thinking we control the healing force with our actions. Your emotional tone has more to do with your healing than most anything else IMHO.

Prohibition trained us to think of cannabis as a drug. Someday it'll be thought of more as a food source, not always for the euphoric benefits.

 

[SweetSue]

Consumer alert:

We have a member in India that just got ripped off to the tune of more than $700 by cbd-international.net. He reported it to the Ontario police dept hot line but they only accept claims from Canadian citizens. Let's spread the word about these charlatans.

Avoid this company - cbd-international.net

 

[AKgramma]

Consumer alert:

We have a member in India that just got ripped off to the tune of more than $700 by cbd-international.net. He reported it to the Ontario police dept hot line but they only accept claims from Canadian citizens. Let's spread the word about these charlatans.

Avoid this company - cbd-international.net

Do we know if the problem is that the postal service refused to deliver? It probably got confiscated by the Indian government.

 

[SweetSue]

Do we know if the problem is that the postal service refused to deliver? It probably got confiscated by the Indian government.

Actually AKgramma, this has been resolved.

Consumer alert:

We have a member in India that just got ripped off to the tune of more than $700 by cbd-international.net. He reported it to the Ontario police dept hot line but they only accept claims from Canadian citizens. Let's spread the word about these charlatans.

Avoid this company - cbd-international.net

Hi Sweet Sue
Just a quick update, The CBD International member in question has been identified thanks to you and we have resolved the problem, unfortunately the item returned for credit was not in his package but contained only rangoli sand and unfortunately the loss of items does happen from time to time when returning items from India via their postal system. but intern would make his order ineligible for a refund. But under these circumstances with us receiving the package containing rangoli sand I have given the member the benefit of doubt and have authorized a full refund which has already been completed.

I thank you for your participation in resolving this matter

Sincerely

Michael
CBD International

 

[Oldbear]

A repost from the Study Hall

I have been thinking about something in support of our new friends Abigail and daddyherb.

I imagine we have all experienced having a little (or a lot) more thc in our system than we are comfortable with.

Things like racy brain, anxiety, perhaps even paranoia, dry mouth, total couch lock, extreme munchies. Probably others.

My question is this:

What are non verbal indicators to watch for to assist in finding the correct dose but ensuring not too much?

Can you guys help with this? How does someone who cant speak provide feedback on their reaction to cannabis therapy?

 

[Chris Scorpio]

They must have some kind of communication ability
Writing
Sighn language

Something

 

[Amy Gardner]

They must have some kind of communication ability
Writing
Sighn language

Something

Not necessarily CS! Many people don't have access to these avenues. In this particular case Oldbear is seeking to help the parent of a child with epilepsy and autism who is non verbal.

It's going to have to be something in the behaviour that the parents can recognise. This makes it a hard thing to advise on but I think Oldbear has the right idea - that if we get enough perspectives on different things that happen to us in our physicality and non-language dependent communications, then the partners will a range of things to look out for and develop and refine this over time.

For me, I know one thing that can happen when I've had too much THC is the 'stares' - looking like I'm a million miles away when really all my focus is inwards because I feel like I'm falling off a cliff and have to hang on very tightly! (TBH - I've never consciously thought that while it was happening, this is a post event analysis .)

FWIW - Radogast shared recently that smelling the aroma of freshly ground black pepper can help ease this overload when/of it happens. Just the aroma mind you, don't anyone go snorting the actual pepper!!

I'll post this back in the study hall too.

.

 

[medmanmike]

A repost from the Study Hall



Can you guys help with this? How does someone who cant speak provide feedback on their reaction to cannabis therapy?

Look into her eyes.

Don't mean to be flippant, but Mom, and Dad, will know.

 

[Amy Gardner]

Look into her eyes.

Don't mean to be flippant, but Mom, and Dad, will know.

You know, there's some assumption in that statement. It's impossible for anyone not in that situation to make that judgement. In this case "Dad" has asked specifically for assistance on this very matter so clearly "Mum and Dad" don't always just 'know'. We could be careful not to make statements that suggest they 'should' - which includes assuming any tuned in parent would, and your comment implies this medman ... just sayin'

.

 

[medmanmike]

You know, there’s some assumption in that statement. It’s impossible for anyone not in that situation to make that judgement. In this case “Dad” has asked specifically for assistance on this very matter so clearly “Mum and Dad” don’t always just ‘know’. We could be careful not to make statements that suggest they ‘should’ - which includes assuming any tuned in parent would, and your comment implies this medman ... just sayin’

.

Amy,

Thank you for your perspective on my recent post. Please know that it was not my intent to judge or show disrespect to the parents. I do not know what condition(s) their child has, but having had a child - first born daughter - born with a very serious medical condition, I felt that I had something to offer.

My daughter was born with Epidermolysis Bullosa (blistering of the skin). I won’t go into the details - you can find information on the disease here, Epidermolysis bullosa - Wikipedia. But believe me when I say it is a horrific disease.

At birth, we knew something was wrong. Within 24 hours she was sent to a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit across town. No one knew what she had. She was placed in an infant isolation incubator as it was believed she had a severe staph infection. She was bathed in Betadine solution (antispectic) which reacted horribly with her skin. Within 72 hours 90% of her skin was denuded. It only got worse from there.

Given her condition we could not touch her without first scrubbing and gowning up. We couldn’t hold her, comfort her, feed or nurse her or do any of the things that new parents normally do with their newborns. She spent 10 long weeks in the hospital - 3 weeks in a specialty unit 150 miles away - before we could bring her home. Even then, day to day living was hell.

Prior to her birth, I was vaguely aware of the importance of infant bonding with a parent(s). How do you do that when you can barely touch or hold your baby? The only way we could hold her for almost a full year was to carry her around on a gel pad to keep her skin cool and to prevent rubbing the skin, which resulted in more blisters. For the first year of her life she only wore clothes if we had to leave the house.

So, how to bond. One way is through skin to skin contact. Obviously, we couldn’t do that. Are you familiar with the saying, “the eyes are a window to the soul”? Because we couldn’t comfort or touch her, at least not how one would normally, we had to find a way to “communicate” with her to 1) get an idea of how/what she was feeling - pain, hunger, etc. and, 2) to bond. We only had the eyes to work with, so to speak, so we spent long hours just gazing into her eyes. talking to her, paying attention to what her eyes were telling us. Over time, we learned to recognize when she was in pain vs being hungry, for example.

If you've ever given a child medication that makes them drowsy, for example, you can see this in their eyes. Someone suggested something similar for the use of CCO et al. Look for the "vacant" look in their eyes, I believe is what they suggested.

I was sincere when I said "look into her eyes". Will it work in this situation? I don't know. But I do I believe they will come to "know" their child well enough to know whether the medicine is working and whether she's had to much.

Again, I apologize if my comment offended you or anyone else. I didn't mean to judge or assume and would never downplay the significance the impact of having a child with a serious medical condition has on a family.

 

[Oldbear]

medmanMike thank you for sharing your story. Best wishes to you and your family

 

[Derbybud]

medmanMike thank you for sharing your story. Best wishes to you and your family

Couldn't have said it any better oldbear

 

[SweetSue]

Mike......

Thank you for sharing that.