Do my Autos look small and stunted for their age? 18-22 days old

[jokerlola]

I think we have firmly established on the forum here... that is a myth. You just need to be very careful not to stress the plant during transplanting. Meaning, don't damage the roots. Make sure it has water and is happy. No problem.


I'm having great success going from tiny 2" square sprouting pots, to 1 gal, to final pot size. I let them get very well established in the 1 gal. (I am growing only photos.)


I'd say it's fairly common. I've seen the opposite – photo seed turning out to be partly autos. BUT... I don't buy from that company anymore. I gravitate more now toward high-quality breeders, and then getting their seed from whomever is selling their seed.

The seeds I’m growing are from 00 Seed Company and one seed from the Humboldt Seed Company. I don’t know if they are good seed companies or not.

I feel I was very careful when I transplanted my last year autos and was very careful with the roots, but I think I left them in the Solo cups too long. The other problem could have been the temps. Right when I transplanted them into the 5 gal pots we had a heatwave hit with temps in the high 90’s. This year is the opposite with cool temps and a lot of rain. Are hot temps stressful to autos?

I started growing in 2018, but only clones outside. I tried growing from seeds for the first time in 2021 but only photos. I decided to try autos for the first time last year. I’ve been used to up potting clones and photo seed plants. So I naturally started the autos last year in Solos as well but because of the warnings about transplanting autos, I decided to only transplant the autos once (from Solos to the 5 gal Smart Pots).

 

[NAGreengo]

. (I am growing only photos.)

Yes, transplanting photoperiods is just fine. But it is best to plant autos direct to final pot as their development can be very rapid(Not all autos are equal) that disturbing the roots can stunt them , and open them to unwanted pathogens. Nearly every Autoflower Breeder will tell you the same, and my personal experience has taught me the same.

And I can hear it already, 'I do it all the time and it's fine'. And unless you have tested side by side a transplanted, and direct to final pot with the same consistent cultivar; then that argument in my book is irrelevant. How could anyone jump entirely to that conclusion without that comparison?

But my transplanted auto was fine when I up potted 4 times..How do you know that it would not have produced that much better had it been sown direct to final pot?

 

[NAGreengo]

00 Seed Company and one seed from the Humboldt Seed Company

Humboldt

00

 

[jokerlola]

Humboldt

00

Last year both the 00 seeds and the Humboldt seed stunted. The 00 Chocolate Skunk stunted worse than the Humboldt Sole Mate but not by that much. The Humboldt plant produced only about an 8oz jar’s worth of bud and the 00 plant about half that. The 3rd auto plant that grew like a photo plant was the 00 Seed’s “00 Kush”.

Can heat temps in the 90’s cause autos to stunt? I’m in Colorado so we have low humidity.

 

[NAGreengo]

The 3rd auto plant that grew like a photo plant was the 00 Seed’s “00 Kush”.

I've found 00 autos to be very unstable.

Can heat temps in the 90’s cause autos to stunt? I’m in Colorado so we have low humidity.

Most definitely. If your climate is hot and arid, it is IMO very important to water until runoff, and repeat when dry....even if that means watering twice a day.

 

[jokerlola]

I've found 00 autos to be very unstable.



Most definitely. If your climate is hot and arid, it is IMO very important to water until runoff, and repeat when dry....even if that means watering twice a day.

Would it be better on hot days in the 90’s to have the plants only in full sun during the morning and early afternoon hours and then in shade during the highest heat of the day?

 

[NAGreengo]

Would it be better on hot days in the 90’s to have the plants only in full sun during the morning and early afternoon hours and then in shade during the highest heat of the day?

That could help. I know experienced outdoor growers who do this and it works well for them.

 

[jokerlola]

That could help. I know experienced outdoor growers who do this and it works well for them.

My very first grow I had to keep my plants on the east side of my house so the neighbors couldn’t see them. So they only got the morning sun until about 1pm and I had a very successful first grow.

 

[cbdhemp808]

The seeds I’m growing are from 00 Seed Company and one seed from the Humboldt Seed Company. I don’t know if they are good seed companies or not.

I have no experience with 00. I have lots of experience with HSC and I love the company. Their packets are marked with a harvest date, and all seeds sprout. Their HI-BISCUS is my best bud rot resistant strain – very amazing results. (I'm in super high mold and bud rot zone here in Hawaii.) Humboldt Dream is 2nd place. Beautiful plants. Seedsman Blueberry has also performed fairly well, and I really like the high.

I feel I was very careful when I transplanted my last year autos and was very careful with the roots, but I think I left them in the Solo cups too long. The other problem could have been the temps. Right when I transplanted them into the 5 gal pots we had a heatwave hit with temps in the high 90’s. This year is the opposite with cool temps and a lot of rain. Are hot temps stressful to autos?

Yeah, both of those would stress out the plants. High 90s.. yeah, very bad. Low 90s bad enough.

I started growing in 2018, but only clones outside. I tried growing from seeds for the first time in 2021 but only photos. I decided to try autos for the first time last year. I’ve been used to up potting clones and photo seed plants. So I naturally started the autos last year in Solos as well but because of the warnings about transplanting autos, I decided to only transplant the autos once (from Solos to the 5 gal Smart Pots).

I don't grow autos, but if I did, I would look for strains/phenos that are durable enough to easily handle transplant from my usual potting sequence, which is: 2" square sprouting pot, 1 gal. pot, and final size. The only stress the roots will experience is just a little exposure to the air for less than a minute. They'll get a treat of myco in the hole, sprayed with water to activate. Mind you, I'm not confirming that some strains may be too sensitive for this method – I'm just saying, if there is such sensitivity, I would prefer to grow the genetics that are not sensitive, because I think there's benefit to to the 1 gal interim size. It's very easy to manage wet/dry cycle in 1 gal, and you can develop a strong plant that way. Then transplant to final size.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Yes, transplanting photoperiods is just fine. But it is best to plant autos direct to final pot as their development can be very rapid(Not all autos are equal) that disturbing the roots can stunt them , and open them to unwanted pathogens. Nearly every Autoflower Breeder will tell you the same, and my personal experience has taught me the same.

And I can hear it already, 'I do it all the time and it's fine'. And unless you have tested side by side a transplanted, and direct to final pot with the same consistent cultivar; then that argument in my book is irrelevant. How could anyone jump entirely to that conclusion without that comparison?

But my transplanted auto was fine when I up potted 4 times..How do you know that it would not have produced that much better had it been sown direct to final pot?

Yeah, there is controversy around this. We should run a poll!

 

[Rasterman]

I have no experience with 00. I have lots of experience with HSC and I love the company. Their packets are marked with a harvest date, and all seeds sprout. Their HI-BISCUS is my best bud rot resistant strain – very amazing results. (I'm in super high mold and bud rot zone here in Hawaii.) Humboldt Dream is 2nd place. Beautiful plants. Seedsman Blueberry has also performed fairly well, and I really like the high.


Yeah, both of those would stress out the plants. High 90s.. yeah, very bad. Low 90s bad enough.


I don't grow autos, but if I did, I would look for strains/phenos that are durable enough to easily handle transplant from my usual potting sequence, which is: 2" square sprouting pot, 1 gal. pot, and final size. The only stress the roots will experience is just a little exposure to the air for less than a minute. They'll get a treat of myco in the hole, sprayed with water to activate. Mind you, I'm not confirming that some strains may be too sensitive for this method – I'm just saying, if there is such sensitivity, I would prefer to grow the genetics that are not sensitive, because I think there's benefit to to the 1 gal interim size. It's very easy to manage wet/dry cycle in 1 gal, and you can develop a strong plant that way. Then transplant to final size.

There are less-sensitive strains. Shoot for longer-running autos with sativa leanings for starters.

 

[Emilya Green]

Yes, transplanting photoperiods is just fine. But it is best to plant autos direct to final pot as their development can be very rapid(Not all autos are equal) that disturbing the roots can stunt them , and open them to unwanted pathogens. Nearly every Autoflower Breeder will tell you the same, and my personal experience has taught me the same.

And I can hear it already, 'I do it all the time and it's fine'. And unless you have tested side by side a transplanted, and direct to final pot with the same consistent cultivar; then that argument in my book is irrelevant. How could anyone jump entirely to that conclusion without that comparison?

But my transplanted auto was fine when I up potted 4 times..How do you know that it would not have produced that much better had it been sown direct to final pot?

An auto is just another plant. When I transplant, I do not disturb the roots. I doubt the plant even knows it has been transplanted when I create a hole just the size of the last container and gently set it in. I don't recall ever seeing a pathogen transmitted upon a transplant.

In my mind, an Auto is simply a fast running cannabis plant that does stall out in the first week or so, apparently to develop roots before concentrating on upper growth. After this initial stall, an Auto grows faster than most Photos if treated correctly.

Side by side tests have proven that a plant that has been forced to develop a solid rootball through successive uppotting, WILL produce better than a plant with a less robust root system. This is the ONLY reason I uppot, so that I can restrict the roots in the smaller containers and force a solid rootball to form at each stage before moving on. Rooballs don't happen by accident, and it takes a lot of effort to make this happen in a large container, requiring extraordinary watering techniques. If you did things right, I am 420% sure that a successively uppotted plant, forced by constriction to produce a rootball at each stage, will produce more than a plant left to grow naturally in a large pot.

 

[LKABudMan]

I've uppotted all of my autos. I start in a 4" pot because I can control how much water they're getting, and by weighing the pot I can see how much they're drinking daily. I usually give 30-40ml around the outside when they get below 50%, and fully water when they get below 25%. It usually only takes about 2 weeks to get them draining the pot in 48 hours, then they go into their final pot. I usually top above the 4th node by day# 20 from seed.

 

[Phytoplankton]

90% of the time, stunting is not a seed issue, it's a environmental issue. The best thing to do when growing outdoors is research what strains (particularly landrace strains) grow best in your hot, dry conditions and at approximtely the same lattitude and elevation. That will give you a better chance of success. It's like trying to grow a sativa originated in a tropical, warm, moist climate, in a cool, dry place with no humidity. They'll grow, but they may not thrive. I up-pot autos all the time, and as long as your're careful, It's not a problem. As @Emilya Green said, autos do tend to start a little slower, but once the roots are well established you'll get a big growth spurt. I water and feed the same as photos, and actually have noticed that autos can be very greedy feeders.

 

[NAGreengo]

An auto is just another plant. When I transplant, I do not disturb the roots. I doubt the plant even knows it has been transplanted when I create a hole just the size of the last container and gently set it in. I don't recall ever seeing a pathogen transmitted upon a transplant.

In my mind, an Auto is simply a fast running cannabis plant that does stall out in the first week or so, apparently to develop roots before concentrating on upper growth. After this initial stall, an Auto grows faster than most Photos if treated correctly.

Side by side tests have proven that a plant that has been forced to develop a solid rootball through successive uppotting, WILL produce better than a plant with a less robust root system. This is the ONLY reason I uppot, so that I can restrict the roots in the smaller containers and force a solid rootball to form at each stage before moving on. Rooballs don't happen by accident, and it takes a lot of effort to make this happen in a large container, requiring extraordinary watering techniques. If you did things right, I am 420% sure that a successively uppotted plant, forced by constriction to produce a rootball at each stage, will produce more than a plant left to grow naturally in a large pot.

First off , not all autos are created equal, as it seems to be a common misconception. Just because one auto began flower at week 2, does not mean the next cultivar will. Some begin to flower far along after others. I have raised autos that finish in 60 days , and others in 120+ days.

Genetics are

I will respectfully agree to disagree then, because this has not been my experience in the many years that I have raised , and breed autos. An undisturbed root mass in a proper sized aerated pot , has simply produced the best results in my organic approach of growing autos since the early 2000's.

 

[Emilya Green]

First off , not all autos are created equal, as it seems to be a common misconception. Just because one auto began flower at week 2, does not mean the next cultivar will. Some begin to flower far along after others. I have raised autos that finish in 60 days , and others in 120+ days.

Genetics are

I will respectfully agree to disagree then, because this has not been my experience in the many years that I have raised , and breed autos. An undisturbed root mass in a proper sized aerated pot , has simply produced the best results in my organic approach of growing autos since the early 2000's.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I suspect that by using my wet/dry method of watering to force roots to grow in constricted spaces, with successive uppotting I could outgrow a "started in the final" grow, every time. Since you don't use my method and I don't use yours, we will probably never know who is right, and like you, I know what works best for me. I will grow some more Autos at the end of summer, and we will see if my first large harvest was a fluke, or if I can consistently get 5 or 6 oz dry from my plants by uppotting twice into a 5 or 7 gallon container. By the way, I never disturb my root masses because I transplant them so gently it is just another day in the sunshine for the plants.

Your term, a properly sized aerated pot made me laugh too... let's imagine a little boy getting outfitted for a new pair of jeans. The proper size would be in proportion to his small body, but his final size might be a 38x32 jeans that gave him plenty of room to grow in. In the proportionally sized jeans I bet the kid could run very fast, but I wonder how fast that little boy would be able to run in those final jeans? lol Silly argument I know, but I'm stoned. Whatever works for you my friend... I don't think that anyone has agreed that there are either right or wrong ways to grow this plant, it's all good as long as they produce weed.

So just what is the proper final size for a plant? Proportional to its present size, or the size you wish it to be when it is fully grown? How fast would roots from a seedling be able to run all through the container? Pretty fast in the right size cup, but in the big final with no control over the root growth... about as fast as that little boy having to hold up men's jeans every step of the way.

 

[NAGreengo]

@Emilya Green , 5oz...very nice, great work.


Without regard to disrespectful talk..Here we are, two completed Autos planted direct to 5 Gallon pot.

We have Night Owl Seeds, Star Krunch(left), and Star Spangled Banner 3 (right). Star Krunch yielded better than 450g's, and SSB3, around 260g's. Had I disturbed them by transplanting, I highly doubt the ladies would've yielded so kindly. The fine hairs on roots are very brittle. Breaking any portion of the roots, can lead to a weakened state of health.

 

[Emilya Green]

@Emilya Green , 5oz...very nice, great work.


Without regard to disrespectful talk..Here we are, two completed Autos planted direct to 5 Gallon pot.

We have Night Owl Seeds, Star Krunch(left), and Star Spangled Banner 3 (right). Star Krunch yielded better than 450g's, and SSB3, around 260g's. Had I disturbed them by transplanting, I highly doubt the ladies would've yielded so kindly. The fine hairs on roots are very brittle. Breaking any portion of the roots, can lead to a weakened state of health.

Total respect my friend... very nice work yourself!

You must not have transplanted a lot. I have it down to an art. I disturb no plant by doing this. I break no portion of any roots upon transplant and I hurt no fine hairs. As an added benefit, I get to add @DYNOMYCO on every transplant to make the roots even stronger. I always see an immediate growth spurt upon transplanting, as this also is watering and feeding day. Nothing but upside here in my very long experience doing this.

 

[Roy Growin]

I actually read through that, interesting
We have these similar conversations all the time
Truth is, to my thinking, it doesn't really matter what you do so long as you know what you're doing

 

[jokerlola]

To chime in here: I did a lot of reading and watched several videos about growing autos before I planted my auto seeds (the wound up severely stunting last year. I read all the warnings to only start in their final pot because transplanting will stunt autos. But I also read all the articles and watched the videos of growers that transplant and up pot all the time with no issues. Since I was most used to up potting my photo plants, I decided to start the seeds in Solo cups and then transplant only once into their final container. I feel I’m pretty good at up potting and was very careful going from Solo to final pot, have a preformed hole and carefully sliding the plant out of the Solo and into the hole quickly. Since there could be other factors that could have caused the stunting (unseasonable heat, possible unstable genetics, etc.) I will never know the cause. But since transplanting is so warned against by many auto growers and auto seed companies, I decided to start my second auto grow in their final pots and see if it makes a difference. We are having different late spring/early summer weather this year (cool and rainy instead of very hot and dry) so I still might not have a conclusion of what is best. Next grow I will transplant/up pot again just to continue to see.