Do we need to pH adjust our nutrient solutions?

[Diatomacious]

Opened up the refrigerator in our motor home and was overcome by Ammonia gas (NH3) from a ruptured line.

If it was real NH3 gas and not freon then you were very lucky. You can google pics of farmers who had and accident with the anhydrous ammonia gas when applying as a fertilizer, chemical burns on all exposed skin. It's shipped in a pressurized form like propane which causes it to become a liquid. NH4 is just ammonia dissolved in water and is still poisonous in my experience. Though you won't have the extreme chemical burns like with the anhydrous ammonia (meaning without water) NH4 can cause Covid symptoms like difficulty breathing as well as abdominal pain and more. Stick your finger in ammonia solution, it absorbs through the skin.

Know what you're feeding your plants and why

Have to agree. This is especially crucial with organic grows where the fertilizer is blended into the soil, ie non water soluble nutrients (the all natural way).

People just please be careful with how you dispose of used hydroponic solution. It is better to dump it into the soil than it is to dispose of it down the drain where it is more likely to enter our waterways. We ARE all in this together.

 

[bluter]

if anyone ever tries a heavy duty citric acid flush

it's always been my understanding that citric acid is fairly unstable and breaks quick. particularly liquified. i do h202 flushes and it's the same. you can definitely overdose it but it will bust really fast.

People just please be careful with how you dispose of used hydroponic solution. It is better to dump it into the soil than it is to dispose of it down the drain where it is more likely to enter our waterways. We ARE all in this together.

into the garden it goes. we even save it all winter. we have a passive hydro top / bottom fed outdoor garden we use it for as well.

 

[farside05]

If it was real NH3 gas and not freon then you were very lucky. You can google pics of farmers who had and accident with the anhydrous ammonia gas when applying as a fertilizer, chemical burns on all exposed skin. It's shipped in a pressurized form like propane.

It was a true RV fridge that ran on ammonia in the coils and fueled by propane. Kinda weird when you have to light a pilot light to make something cold.

Had a friend's dad, back when I was in 4H, almost 40 yrs ago, who was killed by an Ammonia tank explosion. They were getting ready to Ammonia the field when it failed. Wasn't gas exposure but the rupture that got him. Either way, poor 14 year old kid had to grow up father-less.

 

[Diatomacious]

into the garden it goes. we even save it all winter. we have a passive hydro top / bottom fed outdoor garden we use it for as well.

If everyone did this we would still have Alaskan snow crabs and the Great Coral Reef. The stuff is death to aquatic life though the government will tell you it's due to warming waters. Notice the rise in oceanic death rate in the last couple years... it matches with marijuana legalization. I'm convinced it's due to improper disposal of hydroponic solutions by dumping down drains.

 

[Peat Phreak]

This is for @Diatomacious and anyone else that may be paranoid about the health impact of ammonium. Fun fact - eating a 7oz steak has thousands more times ammonia that smoking a pack of cigarettes.

 

[Diatomacious]

This link is for @Diatomacious and anyone else that may be paranoid about the health impact of ammonium. Fun fact - eating a 7oz steak has thousands more times ammonia that smoking a pack of cigarettes.

"Ammonia is an essential element for plant, animal and human life. It is found in water, soil and air, and is a source of much needed nitrogen for plants and animals. Most of the ammonia in the environment comes from the natural breakdown of manure, dead plants and animals."

I have to disagree. Ammonia is a poison to animals and humans. Soil microbes naturally break down ammonia in the environment ridding the soil and water of this nasty poison. Man made ammonia is what is causing Covid symptoms in people as well as killing life in our oceans.

Yes in my experience eating ammonia is much worse than smoking it. When eaten it takes at least 48 hours to make it through the intestine, the body drawing nutrient from it the whole time.

If everyone did this we would still have Alaskan snow crabs and the Great Coral Reef.

Even better grow organically (using blood, alfalfa, feather, manure or other natural nitrogen source). This is how it is in nature and also how to replenish the nutrient flow to our oceans. If all food was grown organically, there would be no Covid and no global warming.

 

[Diatomacious]

paranoid about the health impact of ammonium

Easiest way I can prove it is poisonous to you is for you to expose your skin to an ammonia solution and see for yourself. It absorbs through the skin.

Other than that is actually eating some but the results of that experiment could be fatal.

Fun fact - eating a 7oz steak has thousands more times ammonia that smoking a pack of cigarettes.

Fun fact cows are fed lots of grain which is mostly grown with high concentrations of ammonia. My toes will tingle when I eat it... it hurts. Also why beer is loaded with ammonia.

 

[bluter]

anhydrous and other high ammonia farming practices have pretty well ended here.. though i don't think i'd ever call current methods organic. it's all grain here, and input costs have dictated a move away from fertilizers more than anything.

I'm convinced it's due to improper disposal of hydroponic solutions by dumping down drains.

that's a pretty big leap
i'd venture it's more a cumulative thing that coincided with the timing of the industry opening up. that doesn't negate the need for proper disposal of indoor growing waste.

liquid waste can literally be thrown into the garden, even on top of the snow in winter. solid wastes, soils etc. can generally be incorporated into a garden. plant material can be composted and used in vermiposting.

in hydro apps i avoid the large rock wool cubes as it is not environmentally friendly, it may be necessary to start in the smaller ones but it at least it has less impact. the use and re-use of hydroton is the way to go. i never clone in rock wool as many have done in the past.

when running hempy i re-use the perlite or shovel it into the garden to break up the heavy clay soil we have.

there's really nothing that needs to go to waste in growing, even if you don't grow organic.

the larger issue is many indoor growers don't have access to an outdoor garden or other area to safely use and make benefit of the waste materials. i know some condo dwellers that bury their used peat based soils and plant material in a local community garden compost. everyone knows what it is, no one minds.

 

[bluter]

This link is for @Diatomacious and anyone else that may be paranoid about the health impact of ammonium. Fun fact - eating a 7oz steak has thousands more times ammonia that smoking a pack of cigarettes.

it's true a lot of beef is riddled with it. ranch practices here have evolved, but once they hit the feedlots it's a disaster. beef is a big issue here. there are massive amounts of land here where other farming models won't work due to climate, and most of it is in cattle as a result.

 

[Diatomacious]

that's a pretty big leap

It will seep into my skin when repotting soil that has been fertilized with it, at plant nitrogen concentrations. I have to go wash my hands afterwards or it will cause aches and pains in my hands.

Try exposing your skin to some of your hydroponic solution then think about all the solution in the world ending up in the ocean. "Ammonium" (same as ammonia to me) is 100% water soluble. Aquatic life cannot open the window and let in fresh ocean water.

 

[bluter]

Try exposing your skin to some of your hydroponic solution

did so near daily from late 70's forward. still grow in a passive hydro style.

we all get you're passionate. no one's gonna quit growing indoor because of it. even indoor growing waste can be managed responsibly if you choose.

 

[Diatomacious]

even indoor growing waste can be managed responsibly if you choose.

Problem is no one is doing so and our oceans are dying from it. Enjoy the Covid and global warming taxation along with increase in inflation. Bye bye Ms. American Pie.

 

[Diatomacious]

Nitrate nitrogen NO3 is fine. It's just the ammonia NH4 that is poisonous.

 

[Diatomacious]

New calcium nitrate on the market... at least I hadn't seen it before. They claim no ammonium.

Calcium Nitrate - PureCal - Master Plant-Prod Inc.

 

[Odjob]

Plant Prod has Spike on their cannabis line, no nitrogen at all!

 

[bruno12345]

NH4 is not poisonous.

Ammonium is perfectly fine.- NH4
Ammonia is toxic - NH3

NH3 is basically a gas, and mostly escapes to air when formed. Mostly formed at +9ph.
It also accumulates in water only in the presence of basic pH..

One way ammonia is formed is getting ammonium salts to high temperature + high pH. The most common way, is through bacterial decomposition of organic matter, not through fertilizer.

Ammonium isnt easily leached from soil, clay or organic matter. it binds strongly to soil structure, avoiding leaching, largely immobile.
Nitrate is easily washed as an anion and has more environmental concerns than ammonium. Nitrate can reach groundwater in certain types of soil, and thus be a cause of great concern to infants, newborns and pregnant humans and animals as it can cause anoxia.
Maximum of 10ppm of nitrate is allowed in drinking water.

The most prejudicial fertilizer for water is phosphorus.
Thats why im against the overuse of bloom boosters. Mainly caused by non scientific commercial formulas, and the fact that plant has self regulating P mechanism, which avoids damages to plant structure when in excess.
Some strains work better at 15 to 30ppm P, some at 30 to 45PPM P. Comercial formulas sometimes advocate for 100ppm of P (no science for backing this up).


So what im saying is:
Know what your plant need, and in what rate.
Do not over fertilize with P.
Care for soil pH.
When running large facilities, care for recycling


You wont fu*k the enviroment using right fertilizing ratios and techniques.

 

[Diatomacious]

You not listening... ammonium is not stable. Just as it forms ammonium when a farmer applies ammonia to a field... the ammonia NH3 dissolves in water to form ammonium NH4, the reverse also happens when ammonium gives up the hydrogen ion and reverts back to ammonia. This happens after you eat food grown with ammonium in your body causing the covid symptoms. It is what is killing so much ocean life.

It's why there is such a strong smell of ammonia NH3 when growing plants with ammonium NH4. NH4 may be considered non-poisonous but it is not stable in that form.

 

[Diatomacious]

Nitric acid HNO3 would be a better choice for a pH down. It is 100% nitrate nitrogen and will also give up a hydrogen ion when dissolved in water thereby reducing soil pH.

 

[bluter]

Problem is no one is doing so and our oceans are dying from it. Enjoy the Covid and global warming taxation along with increase in inflation. Bye bye Ms. American Pie.

you're a cheerful sort lol

i do manage my grow waste. we re-use even the runoff. the material stuff has become coveted for fill in the folks yard. saves my back tons over having to truck some in.

you can do it if you want to. if you are stuck in apt/divided living though, your options become limited. can't grow total organic under those conditions. you get the worst of both worlds, waste goes down the drain, and in the landfill.

 

[Diatomacious]

Sorry just being honest.

Way better to dump your used fertilizer or run off into the yard than down the drain. This will ensure that soil microbes have a chance to digest at least some of the ammonia before it reaches the ocean.

I disagree about not being able to grow organic in an apt. As long as the fertilizer you are using comes from the decomposition of organic matter, both animal and plant, then you are growing organic. I've been attempting to switch my grow to total organic and so far the smell has been zero. When I grow with ammonium it almost runs me out of the house from the ammonia smell... the higher the concentration of ammonium, the worse the smell, and the ammonia contamination in my body after consumption/smoking of the plant.

That is the real difference between chemical and organic... the soil microbes digest the ammonia before it can be consumed by people or animals. They also do other things like produce vitamins and aid in digestion but the ammonia being a poison is where they make the biggest difference.