Icemud's LED Grow - The Tangie Pheno Hunt

[Icemud]

Hey Everyone!!!!

The Tangie Tent:

Well the Tangie tent is coming along nicely, and I have to say these plants are really really putting off some smell for being in veg, either that or my scrubber is getting old and needing replacement. I've been noticing that my room smells quite pungent, so hopefully after I get a call this week about a job, with my first paycheck I will get a new scrubber.

The tangies are doing really good, however I do have some issues with the lower leaves dying off, and I am not quite sure why. They were doing really good and then recently I noticed more dead leaves, which could be because I have been laying off waterings and really stressing drought conditions, and maybe my soil EGRS is too high...not really sure, and its hard to know without soil tests or EC probes. I fed plain water the last 2 feedings and this next feeding will be a light dose of earthjuice just to keep the organics going in the soil, and the microbes happy. Other than the lower leaves dying, the new leaves look great and only show a slight K def, which has been added to the current EJ feeding.


The Veg/Mother Tent: Well unfortunately my GSC didn't make it, all 4 clones died, and I think it was because the plant was already dying when I took the clones. I babied them and no bueno, oh well, now that GSC is more common in my neck of the woods, I think that it wont be hard to find another cut, and maybe the original source still has a mom. Will have to see. Even though Cookies is one of my favorite strains currently, I have plenty of other ones still yet to flower, so maybe its a sign to condense my collection and only keep a couple strains instead of like 10... I have also considered running my Ogiesel next grow and saying goodby, even though the strain is great, I'm kind of sick of it after having it for 2 years... need some new flavors for my tastebuds...haha taste buds

Other than that I am happy to say that I have seen no spider mites, and no new leaf damage so I think they are finally gone, however I will continue to treat for another few weeks to make sure. I've been using spinosad in my feedings since finding out it can work systemically, and so far so good Dodged a bullet there

Here are pics of the Tangies:

 

[Bamalabrat]

Hey Ice,

If you do not mind, I want to ask a couple of questions about the 350xml Advanced LED's. I have 2 of them for my 4x8 tent. It says that they have a 4.5 x 4.5 footprint. I have them at 22" above the canopy and have maybe a 3 x 3 footprint. If I raise the light high enough to get the 4 x 4 footprint, will it still have enough energy to get penetration down into the plant? What would you do or recommend doing right now? I am going to flip on Sunday and I want to make sure at the moment to get good penetration to encourage more side branches and stuff. After the stretch I want to make sure that I get even or near even coverage of the canopy so the buds reach their potential. Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the hijack.

 

[SweetSue]

Simplifying is a good idea. I understand the ease with which one can get carried away.

Great news on the mites Icemud. Holding our breath there with you. Whew!

 

[Icemud]

Hey Ice,

If you do not mind, I want to ask a couple of questions about the 350xml Advanced LED's. I have 2 of them for my 4x8 tent. It says that they have a 4.5 x 4.5 footprint. I have them at 22" above the canopy and have maybe a 3 x 3 footprint. If I raise the light high enough to get the 4 x 4 footprint, will it still have enough energy to get penetration down into the plant? What would you do or recommend doing right now? I am going to flip on Sunday and I want to make sure at the moment to get good penetration to encourage more side branches and stuff. After the stretch I want to make sure that I get even or near even coverage of the canopy so the buds reach their potential. Any thoughts or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the hijack.

Hey Bamalabrat!

I never mind helping a fellow grower

Well, with the XML350's, I'm not quite sure why Advanced lists them as covering a 4x4 area, unless they are listing that for low light level plants, but for cannabis, based on their PAR charts the XML 350's realistically should only cover an area slightly larger than 2x2 for flowering and at very best possibly 3x3. Now this doesn't mean you can't flower, it just means that along the edges you may not get as large of buds, and they may be slightly more airy. Now with that being said...

I think that you would be fine raising your lights higher, up to around 30" would be probably my recommendation of the limit of vertical height. This is based off their PAR chart, which shows at closer than 24", the coverage/footprint is very condensed, however between the range of 24-36" it shows that the light levels increase significantly around the edges but at 36" the center PAR is barely scratching acceptable for flowering, therefore I would say up to around 30" you should be fine. It helps when adjusting the lights to turn off other lights so you can see a defined line of where the intense light drops off. I would raise them within the 30" threashold, but also look at the light spread and keep them as low as you can (within the 24-30" range) where the light cuts off just outside your plant area. Since your plants aren't extremely tall, you don't need huge intensities to penetrate thick canopies, so I think this should be ideal

You may want to run the question by CronicHemphog, as he uses the same light, but also uses supplemental side lighting I believe. So being he is an actual user of that model, he may also be able to provide some insight to your question from a real world standpoint. My opinion is solely based of the datasheets. Hope this helps you out

 

[Icemud]

Simplifying is a good idea. I understand the ease with which one can get carried away.

Great news on the mites Icemud. Holding our breath there with you. Whew!

I am so relieved that the mites are gone, and hope for good I actually just sprayed them again tonight just to make sure and will do it here and there for the next week or 2, pretty much up until flowering

Yea definitely have way too many strains going on for my small garden, it was much simpler with just a couple strains in a perpetual grow, much less to focus on, especially individual plants needs. Cheers to simplification

Thanks for stopping by Sweetsue, always a pleasure!

 

[Bamalabrat]

Thanks Ice for that. I follow Cronic but did not realize he uses the same model. I will be asking him the question very soon. Thanks. I really appreciate your opinion and advice. I know you love to geek out on lights so really trust what you say. Thanks for being you and GL with the job search.

 

[Icemud]

Thanks Ice for that. I follow Cronic but did not realize he uses the same model. I will be asking him the question very soon. Thanks. I really appreciate your opinion and advice. I know you love to geek out on lights so really trust what you say. Thanks for being you and GL with the job search.

Thank you Bamalabrat! I'm glad you came by to ask, I never mind sharing what I have learned about lightss Waiting for a call today to see if I got the job I interviewed for last week. Fingers crossed!

 

[GermanDude]

shame about the gsc. Tangies look good though.

Just got me some Tangie now as well. I can first pop it in late December (got GSC, Deep Cheese, Tahoe OG, Amnesia, SSH, SLH, Dinachem, Cookies Kush, Florida Gold running atm) i think but well i wanted to order sumthin. ordered 2 tangie crosses as well from RD.

What you thnk of my list i tried to sample some choice us genetics? this is waht i will grow next year. unfortunatly we can't buy elite clones in my country so i gotta stick with seeds and cross my fingers.

StarBud
Moonshine's Ghost Train
Alpine OG - Feminisierte
Amnesia Lemon - Feminisierte
Romulan Kush - Feminisierte
White Alien - Feminisierte
Double Alien 18 - Feminisierte
Kosher Kush - Feminisierte
Tangie - Feminisierte
Lucky No Sleven - Feminisierte
Snake Venom - Feminisierte
East Coast Cookies - Feminisierte
Girl Scout Haze Cookies - Feminisierte
Tangie Ghost Train - Feminisierte
Ghost Train Haze #1 - Feminisierte

 

[Icemud]

shame about the gsc. Tangies look good though.

Just got me some Tangie now as well. I can first pop it in late December (got GSC, Deep Cheese, Tahoe OG, Amnesia, SSH, SLH, Dinachem, Cookies Kush, Florida Gold running atm) i think but well i wanted to order sumthin. ordered 2 tangie crosses as well from RD.

What you thnk of my list i tried to sample some choice us genetics? this is waht i will grow next year. unfortunatly we can't buy elite clones in my country so i gotta stick with seeds and cross my fingers.

Hey GermanDude!

Yea the GSC was a bummer because it was mine and many of my friends favorite, but there now are enough cuts of it going around I should be able to get another one soon. This time once I know its good, I will make seeds right away..

I've never grown Tangie so it should be interesting, I know it makes amazing extract with its citrus terp profile...some of the best BHO I have had was tangie I'm not sure what mine is crossed with, so it will be interesting to see what comes of these fine ladies

Wow your garden sounds like mine, tons of fine strains... Amnesia is an amazing stain, never grown it but love the taste of it... SSH is one of my favorite sativa dom's other than blue dream. Tahoe OG is one of my favorite cuts of OG, again never grown it but have sampled plenty of it, amazing flavor..

You have some really amazing genetics I definitely in the future will be getting some Tahoe Og for my collection

 

[Icemud]

UPDATE time!

Well in prep for upcomming flowering, I decided to take some clones of each of the 8 tangie phenos going. I want to make sure that I get at least 1 good rooted clone of each one before the flip so that I can have them in veg by the time these current ones flower. Then I can cull the males, and the ones that perform less than satisfactory, and keep the top maybe 2 or 3 pheno's to toy around with I also will be hopefully making seeds of the best pheno by using CS but that still is a long way away

Not much else to report on today, but the clones are cut, in the root riot pellets, in a humidity dome, with a heating pad and the rooting solution was clonex.

Here are today's photos.

 

[GermanDude]

i never smoked any of those so far. waiting till harvest to sample tahoe, ssh, slh and amnesia.

yeh i read that tangy wons tons of prices, also like u mentioned many bho ones. But i have rarely dabbed so far, let alone done my own bho extracts. this is something i wanna do maybe also next year.

i read u removed or disabled the blue lights a little in veg. i have a similiar problem, i bought a 55x3w aquarium led light wiht half royal blue the other half whites, green, uv and a few red. well the lamp keeps the nodes so tight that i disabled blue spectrum completly and only veg on 50w of white neutral leds.

 

[Icemud]

i never smoked any of those so far. waiting till harvest to sample tahoe, ssh, slh and amnesia.

yeh i read that tangy wons tons of prices, also like u mentioned many bho ones. But i have rarely dabbed so far, let alone done my own bho extracts. this is something i wanna do maybe also next year.

i read u removed or disabled the blue lights a little in veg. i have a similiar problem, i bought a 55x3w aquarium led light wiht half royal blue the other half whites, green, uv and a few red. well the lamp keeps the nodes so tight that i disabled blue spectrum completly and only veg on 50w of white neutral leds.

You definitely are in for a treat with those strains.... very good genetics

I'm excited about the Tangie, and by the way the smell already, I know the flavor is going to be epic smells like a freshly peeled orange.

I still have the blue lights currently in my veg/mother tent, and added one of my XTE panels in there to add red/white and decrease the stretch caused by the all blue spectrum. Unfortunately though I believe it is still too much blue as my plants just don't seem to be growing as fast as they would with less blue and more red. I will be replacing them in a few weeks with my XTE panels in my veg tent and trying out some new lights for my flower tent... More details to come as this becomes official

 

[GermanDude]

yaah, man.

I just sampled Blue Dream/Blueberry Haze (Blueberry x Amnesia Haze). Its now only 10 days old but already dry and i wanted something else than my cookies kush. Smells not so good but looks very potent. And goddamn it is. Also you directly taste that it is a Haze. Really pleasantly surprised, cause i didnt bought humboldt seed but rather seeds from the seedstore (zamnesia) i worried it would not be that good. But it really is a nice taste.

Yes, around 5-6 more weeks till i can sample all the others. They r in week 5 and 6 now have between 4-6 more to go. When i get a new phone i try to make some pics.


Btw, i always have the feeling that i always grow the wrong strains, lol i'm still so noob (growin' for ~2 years now) that i always look for the new flavor of the month.


btw dude, i read nearly all your led reviews and watched the vids. i have an advanced led 100x3w, 2 eshine 200x3w (which are shitty and i will get rid of) one cheap 120x5w Ebay led (which is quite good) and of course the good ol' 600w hps.

now a question. Have you ever used a 315w cmh light? i read much good about it. And i'm thinking of replacing the eshines (much too much blue, too little red and not enough of other bands, really shitty compared to advanced led) with one. Or build a cree cob led. not sure yet.

 

[Icemud]

yaah, man.

I just sampled Blue Dream/Blueberry Haze (Blueberry x Amnesia Haze). Its now only 10 days old but already dry and i wanted something else than my cookies kush. Smells not so good but looks very potent. And goddamn it is. Also you directly taste that it is a Haze. Really pleasantly surprised, cause i didnt bought humboldt seed but rather seeds from the seedstore (zamnesia) i worried it would not be that good. But it really is a nice taste.

Yes, around 5-6 more weeks till i can sample all the others. They r in week 5 and 6 now have between 4-6 more to go. When i get a new phone i try to make some pics.


Btw, i always have the feeling that i always grow the wrong strains, lol i'm still so noob (growin' for ~2 years now) that i always look for the new flavor of the month.


btw dude, i read nearly all your led reviews and watched the vids. i have an advanced led 100x3w, 2 eshine 200x3w (which are shitty and i will get rid of) one cheap 120x5w Ebay led (which is quite good) and of course the good ol' 600w hps.

now a question. Have you ever used a 315w cmh light? i read much good about it. And i'm thinking of replacing the eshines (much too much blue, too little red and not enough of other bands, really shitty compared to advanced led) with one. Or build a cree cob led. not sure yet.

I've never used the 315 CMH, but I have used the older version which was a 400w CMH (Phillips retrowhite Ceramic Metal Halide) at 4K and loved them, I still have all my ballasts and bulbs and once I get a larger garden I definitely will be using the 400w CMH. The 400w ones I used have been discountinued which is a shame because they hosted one of the best spectrums for growing period, just like the sun. I'm not too sure about the 315 CMH which is the newer versions, as I believe they have a different spectrum. If you can get your hands on any 400w CMH phillips bulbs...they rock... the only thing is they operate on HPS magnetic ballasts only.

COB's have been getting a lot of noise lately, and seems to be the favorite for the DIY crowd. I haven't used one as of yet, but based on the spectrum, light details and spec they seem to stack up to the hype. COBs or LES (Light emmitting surface) chips have the highest efficiency as far as output and I have seen growers getting above 50% efficiency out of them so I think they may be a viable options. The only concerns I have for LES chips is they offer very little in terms of deep red/IR, and deep blue/UV so IMO I would say they are damn near perfect, but may need some supplemental 660nm, 420nm and 730nm chips to really shine. But again, that is just based off my observation of spectrum output and I have never used them. I do feel though with the LED white chips, the extra green/yellow/orange they supply may be key to upping the yields that the red/blue lights seem to have a little trouble with.

 

[Graytail]

I picked up a 400W hps ballast and a couple CMH bulbs last winter, and I'm itching to try it with a vertical reflector and four 180W LED panels in the corners. I have the Advanced 350XML in there now - it'd be a nice test. And I can use the heat in the winter.

 

[Icemud]

I picked up a 400W hps ballast and a couple CMH bulbs last winter, and I'm itching to try it with a vertical reflector and four 180W LED panels in the corners. I have the Advanced 350XML in there now - it'd be a nice test. And I can use the heat in the winter.

I've been wanting to do a LED and CMH combo grow for a while but just haven't gotten around to it, but definitely in the list of things I want to do. I remember a while back seeing a PAR test that growers house did with CMH, HPS and 4 different LED's and the CMH actually had more par and a better footprint that the rest. Now this was testing LED's from a few year ago so things might have changed slightly, but I love, I mean absolutely love my CMH bulbs

It would be awesome to see Graytail! I think that would be a perfect combo

 

[GermanDude]

400w cmh are not available anywhere in europe. Also we can't buy the socket (pgxz18 or pgx18) in europe except your a vendor. i found a shop in the uk where i can buy two sockets for around 70€. then 100€ per bulb. then 200€ for a digital phillips balast made for the bulbs. plus ~ 50 bucks for a reflector.

~370€ for a self build cmh. (epapillion is 100 more and not diy, meh).

if cmh is good, i would like to have 2 of them, and in the middle inbetween a real 400w Cree 3590 led ~ 1000w lighting for the whole garden, n i have 4x8 foot. and i have a light mover and i supplement via timer with co2. And the co2 makes a huge difference.

like graytail i can use em good in the winter, heating and stuff of the tent. and rather than one 600w hps i rather have 2x315w, also better light spread i think.


tbh, for veg, the best imo is the advanced led diamond in veg settings. only a few blue, some greens, reds and others. my plants thrive under the 90w in the veg settings. so whenever my blue aquarium led is too good at keeping nodes tight i switch it for some time with the diamond led.

 

[Icemud]

400w cmh are not available anywhere in europe. Also we can't buy the socket (pgxz18 or pgx18) in europe except your a vendor. i found a shop in the uk where i can buy two sockets for around 70€. then 100€ per bulb. then 200€ for a digital phillips balast made for the bulbs. plus ~ 50 bucks for a reflector.

~370€ for a self build cmh. (epapillion is 100 more and not diy, meh).

if cmh is good, i would like to have 2 of them, and in the middle inbetween a real 400w Cree 3590 led ~ 1000w lighting for the whole garden, n i have 4x8 foot. and i have a light mover and i supplement via timer with co2. And the co2 makes a huge difference.

like graytail i can use em good in the winter, heating and stuff of the tent. and rather than one 600w hps i rather have 2x315w, also better light spread i think.


tbh, for veg, the best imo is the advanced led diamond in veg settings. only a few blue, some greens, reds and others. my plants thrive under the 90w in the veg settings. so whenever my blue aquarium led is too good at keeping nodes tight i switch it for some time with the diamond led.

Sounds like you have a great plan for your grow area lighting! Cree LES chips, CMH... and advanced Diamond... now that is awesome!

 

[Icemud]

Quick grow video update!

 

[Icemud]

Update time!!!!

The Tangie Tent:

Well everything is looking fairly good in the tangie tent. I have been spacing out my waterings every few days and the plants seem to prefer it much more than the watering every day so I am going to continue on the every 3-4 days routine. I finished up my feeding yesterday of my earth juice tea which I added:

5 gallons of r/o water
40ml of EJ grow
30ml of EJ bloom
40ml of EJ meta-K
40ml of EJ catalyst
40ml of EJ micro

I also switched up my Cal/Mag from General Organics to Humbold Nutrients Equillibrium, and have been using it for the last 3 waterings. The reason why I switched was because General Hydro was bought out by Scotts, who is an advertising partner with Monsanto, and I don't like to support anything to do with them. Another reason I switched was humboldt nutrients was a higher Ca:Mg ratio 12:2, where GenOrg was 5:1, not much different but the equillibrium also is a 1-1-2 and I need a bump in my K so the product seems to be perfect.


Today I got a tea ready which is composed of :
5 gallons of r/o water
40 ml of equillibrium
40ml of Deuce Deuce which is a 0-0-22 organic K supplement. I noticed my plants all had a slight deficiency so added this to support their needs.
1 spoonful of TandJ tea mix.
30ml of 2-4-0 hydrolyzed fish..
a few drops of yucca extract

This mix will be fed to the girls either tomorrow of the following day.
Overall the girls are looking great, very good leaf posture and the leafs seem to be growing pretty healthy, minus the slight K or Mg deficiency which shows the yellowing around the outer edges of the leafs.

Full Tangie Tent:

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

#6

#7

#8

The clones also are looking fairly good and I think within the next few days I should see some roots I have been misting them 1x every day, and they are still under the humidity dome, and I add water about every 2 days to keep the moisture levels up (RH). As soon as they root, and I get them into 3 gallon pots, then I will be flipping to flowering on the Tangies

As far as my mother/veg tent, we had a very hot last few days in socal, and I noticed with the 2 blue lights on the plants really just didn't seem to be growing so I turned both EX veg lights off, and only had the XTE 300 on full (both channels) within a few days I noticed that the plants posture lifted up, and new growth started forming immediately. I think that in a few weeks I will be completely removing the blue lights and replacing them with 2x XTE's and something new will be going into the flowering tent... can't say just yet.

Full Mother Tent...

Area 51

Blue Dream

Fire OG

Black Diamond OG

Ogiesel

Harlequin

Black Cherry Soda