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- #81
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Another thing, I can't really lower the setup I have other plants growing and they are tall.
Indicas Grow & Experimenting Genetics Part II - Winter Indoor Organic Grow
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Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Finally The UV lights are here. 
we can officially start the UV radiation experiment. Very excited no matter what the outcome.
** Not endorsing the use of any brands**
2 feet distance
1 foot
6 inches
Update on the current situation.
The small ones are very happy growers, separating every day from each other in growth, traits and smell. I have 2 candidates one because it has the best overall structure out of all and it also has far outgrown the rest. The second candidate (Jamaican Unknown Strain) is one I recognize the phenotype before I have seen it in my previous grows I love the structure of this plant but It takes for ever to flower very Sativish. Seems unfair but the rest kinda fade away in front on them two, guess Its just a matter of time till sex Is shown. Overall everything here seems to be growing green and happy, no mayor issues.
Pheno #1
Pheno #2
Similar traits on previous grows.
BLUE BERRY
Despite the ongoing loss of leaves there is such a vibrant green new growth coming out of the bottom of the plant which indeed was the first part to lose the big fan leaves. If you take a closer look seems like very young Calyxes are stacking increasing the biomass of each forming flower.
Now what we smoke are mostly Non fertilized flower clusters since Cannabis flower shows no clear Petals (to my understanding) we smoke Calyx and pistils with a few sugar leaves. So ultimately we would aim for a Calyx production rather than leaf when it comes to flowering cannabis. That said, the formation of Trichomes happens as a defence mechanism to protect the reproductive apparatus of the plant (mainly contained inside the Calyx). I could be wrong Im not a botanist, this is my understanding of the plant from what I have being reading.
So is my plant really in such a BAD state???... Its very debatable. Yes, the Big fan leaves are bone dry DEAD but the growth of the plant hasn't stopped, the stem is very strong, the plant doesn't seem to have deficiency in the NPK intake nor Ca or Mg which are the most common problems we encounter when growing Cannabis, NO Nut Burn (because I don't use heavy nuts or feeding regimes), there are other signs of growth that are not being taken in consideration, terpenes are in production I can smell the plant, trichomes are in production I can see them with out even using magnifying glass, leaves are green so there is chlorophyl production therefore photosynthesis is being done, I do Agree Im not winning any contest showing a plant as stressed like this, but Im not aiming for the price nor the big yields, I want to see how can I better my Cannabinoids that my goal, we medically don't benefit as much from the big fan leaves as we do from the Cannabinoids Content of the plant in general.
I can just say she has a good head start for when real blooming starts. I believe the energy Is being focused on production of calyxes and developing trichomes rather than leaf production. When energy or nutrients are low the plant drains the big leaves (not essential anymore) so the nutrients can be put to use for the ultimate goal which is seed production or propagation (reproduce it self).
Now UVB radiation starts today at 430 pm that is 2.30 hrs of total exposure at the very end of my photoperiod (13/11), the lights are at a height of 3 feet from the ground 2 feet from the soil of the plants. We can take this picture as a starting point to see the effects of UV radiation on this plants. If the die is for the sake of demystifying the use of UV in growing Cannabis, NO matter what the outcome is I feel we can all experience if in fact UV radiation is beneficial, harmful or totally useless when growing indoors. Its does exist in our Sun light spectrum and I don't think its there just to cause us sun burns...
All my statements are based on pure observation of my plants and the readings I have been posting along. I would probably need a Botanist to give me a clear understanding of the current situation of this particular plant (the others seem relatively stable), as far as I can say, to me this is just a very sexually confused plant that is caught between vegetative hormones and flowering hormones.
we can officially start the UV radiation experiment. Very excited no matter what the outcome.** Not endorsing the use of any brands**
2 feet distance
1 foot
6 inches
Update on the current situation.
The small ones are very happy growers, separating every day from each other in growth, traits and smell. I have 2 candidates one because it has the best overall structure out of all and it also has far outgrown the rest. The second candidate (Jamaican Unknown Strain) is one I recognize the phenotype before I have seen it in my previous grows I love the structure of this plant but It takes for ever to flower very Sativish. Seems unfair but the rest kinda fade away in front on them two, guess Its just a matter of time till sex Is shown. Overall everything here seems to be growing green and happy, no mayor issues.
Pheno #1
Pheno #2
Similar traits on previous grows.
BLUE BERRY
Despite the ongoing loss of leaves there is such a vibrant green new growth coming out of the bottom of the plant which indeed was the first part to lose the big fan leaves. If you take a closer look seems like very young Calyxes are stacking increasing the biomass of each forming flower.
Now what we smoke are mostly Non fertilized flower clusters since Cannabis flower shows no clear Petals (to my understanding) we smoke Calyx and pistils with a few sugar leaves. So ultimately we would aim for a Calyx production rather than leaf when it comes to flowering cannabis. That said, the formation of Trichomes happens as a defence mechanism to protect the reproductive apparatus of the plant (mainly contained inside the Calyx). I could be wrong Im not a botanist, this is my understanding of the plant from what I have being reading.
So is my plant really in such a BAD state???... Its very debatable. Yes, the Big fan leaves are bone dry DEAD but the growth of the plant hasn't stopped, the stem is very strong, the plant doesn't seem to have deficiency in the NPK intake nor Ca or Mg which are the most common problems we encounter when growing Cannabis, NO Nut Burn (because I don't use heavy nuts or feeding regimes), there are other signs of growth that are not being taken in consideration, terpenes are in production I can smell the plant, trichomes are in production I can see them with out even using magnifying glass, leaves are green so there is chlorophyl production therefore photosynthesis is being done, I do Agree Im not winning any contest showing a plant as stressed like this, but Im not aiming for the price nor the big yields, I want to see how can I better my Cannabinoids that my goal, we medically don't benefit as much from the big fan leaves as we do from the Cannabinoids Content of the plant in general.
I can just say she has a good head start for when real blooming starts. I believe the energy Is being focused on production of calyxes and developing trichomes rather than leaf production. When energy or nutrients are low the plant drains the big leaves (not essential anymore) so the nutrients can be put to use for the ultimate goal which is seed production or propagation (reproduce it self).
Now UVB radiation starts today at 430 pm that is 2.30 hrs of total exposure at the very end of my photoperiod (13/11), the lights are at a height of 3 feet from the ground 2 feet from the soil of the plants. We can take this picture as a starting point to see the effects of UV radiation on this plants. If the die is for the sake of demystifying the use of UV in growing Cannabis, NO matter what the outcome is I feel we can all experience if in fact UV radiation is beneficial, harmful or totally useless when growing indoors. Its does exist in our Sun light spectrum and I don't think its there just to cause us sun burns...
All my statements are based on pure observation of my plants and the readings I have been posting along. I would probably need a Botanist to give me a clear understanding of the current situation of this particular plant (the others seem relatively stable), as far as I can say, to me this is just a very sexually confused plant that is caught between vegetative hormones and flowering hormones.
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- #84
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Continued Update.
After a week the dead leaves show no further decomposition, I can only asume there were no living cells left to decompose. So indeed when they fall off the plant by themselves is because they have NO use what so ever for the plant. They are completely DEAD before they fall off, The living stem is what holds them attached.
New Setup.
UV is a radiation that can cause skin cancer, so I have to take safety precautions once the UVB lights are on.
After a week the dead leaves show no further decomposition, I can only asume there were no living cells left to decompose. So indeed when they fall off the plant by themselves is because they have NO use what so ever for the plant. They are completely DEAD before they fall off, The living stem is what holds them attached.
New Setup.
UV is a radiation that can cause skin cancer, so I have to take safety precautions once the UVB lights are on.
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- #85
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
I really appreciate your input because you have grown some amazing buds using Cfls, Now why would you recommend lowering the lights? and what distances is ideal for you?
KEEP in mind I have 600 watts of heat coming from my top CFLs that is going to roast my plants if I put them lets say 12 inches from the lights.
thank you
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- #87
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
I see what you mean, Now lumens are a visible light measurement, so the closer you are to the lights the brighter they seem (to the human eye), what about the spectrum of light? we measure then in wavelength that no matter at what distance (the sun being the ultimate light source) they travel at a distance between each wave from 380nm-700nm. Yes the lights are mimicking the wavelength spectrum so the closer you are to the radius of the spectrum the more exposure you receive from the rays. But I can't really push the plant up into the light because of the heat emission (around 600 watts) and I have the aluminum reflectors magnifying the heat... frankly I don't see any massive stretch between the internodes on every single plant, I can take that as; they are in a considerably nice distance from my light source so they grow compact and don't suffer from heat damage...
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- #88
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
The advantage you have is that the small cfls emit lower heat and are easier to cool down, so you can really stick the light source close to the plant without burning the leaves.
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- #89
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Just another observation, peanuts shells seems to breakdown faster than eggshells. As you can see on the top of the soil the shells in general seem to be vanishing, once I take a closer look I can tell there are more residual eggshells than peanut shells. So there you go peanut shells as a source of Nitrogen.
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- #90
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
General thought:
I feel that at a certain point (very soon, as we further domesticate this wild plant) the Cannabis growing community worldwide will start to divide in 2 sub-categories; the grower that still sees Cannabis as a cash crop (aiming for bigger massive yields of the standard yet good quality of bud we have today) and the grower that wants the chemical compounds we call Cannabinoids all identified, isolated and studied individually to maximize the use and potential of each of these chemical compounds, understanding the biochemistry and behaviour of the plant is a must for any of the two purposes of growing. Either you become a great grower or a great grower/chemist/botanist/scientist.
I feel that at a certain point (very soon, as we further domesticate this wild plant) the Cannabis growing community worldwide will start to divide in 2 sub-categories; the grower that still sees Cannabis as a cash crop (aiming for bigger massive yields of the standard yet good quality of bud we have today) and the grower that wants the chemical compounds we call Cannabinoids all identified, isolated and studied individually to maximize the use and potential of each of these chemical compounds, understanding the biochemistry and behaviour of the plant is a must for any of the two purposes of growing. Either you become a great grower or a great grower/chemist/botanist/scientist.
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- #91
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
The plant is not using the leaves for stored nutrients as they have not yellowed. Leaves that are too far from a light source will begin to die without yellowing and dry out as the leaf damage appears in your photograph. Compact Florescent Lights often lack enough light penetration power to reach far from the light source to the canopy. Light intensity decreased to 1/4 every every foot from the light source. Cannabis plants require higher intensity illumination in flower than in vegetative growth to flower properly.After a week the dead leaves show no further decomposition, I can only asume there were no living cells left to decompose. So indeed when they fall off the plant by themselves is because they have NO use what so ever for the plant. They are completely DEAD before they fall off, The living stem is what holds them attached.
"Light and other electromagnetic radiation
The intensity (or illuminance or irradiance) of light or other linear waves radiating from a point source (energy per unit of area perpendicular to the source) is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source; so an object (of the same size) twice as far away, receives only one-quarter the energy (in the same time period).
More generally, the irradiance, i.e., the intensity (or power per unit area in the direction of propagation), of a spherical wavefront varies inversely with the square of the distance from the source (assuming there are no losses caused by absorption or scattering).
For example, the intensity of radiation from the Sun is 9126 watts per square meter at the distance of Mercury (0.387 AU); but only 1367 watts per square meter at the distance of Earth (1 AU)–an approximate threefold increase in distance results in an approximate ninefold decrease in intensity of radiation.
For non isotropic radiators such as parabolic antennas, headlights, and lasers, the effective origin is located far behind the beam aperture. If you are close to the origin, you don't have to go far to double the radius, so the signal drops quickly. When you are far from the origin and still have a strong signal, like with a laser, you have to travel very far to double the radius and reduce the signal. This means you have a stronger signal or have antenna gain in the direction of the narrow beam relative to a wide beam in all directions of an isotropic antenna.
In photography and theatrical lighting, the inverse-square law is used to determine the "fall off" or the difference in illumination on a subject as it moves closer to or further from the light source. For quick approximations, it is enough to remember that doubling the distance reduces illumination to one quarter;[8] or similarly, to halve the illumination increase the distance by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), and to double illumination, reduce the distance to 0.7 (square root of 1/2). When the illuminant is not a point source, the inverse square rule is often still a useful approximation; when the size of the light source is less than one-fifth of the distance to the subject, the calculation error is less than 1%.[9]
The fractional reduction in electromagnetic fluence (Φ) for indirectly ionizing radiation with increasing distance from a point source can be calculated using the inverse-square law. Since emissions from a point source have radial directions, they intercept at a perpendicular incidence. The area of such a shell is 4πr 2 where r is the radial distance from the center. The law is particularly important in diagnostic radiography and radiotherapy treatment planning, though this proportionality does not hold in practical situations unless source dimensions are much smaller than the distance. As stated in fourier theory of heat "as the point source is magnification by distances , its radiation is dilute proportional to the sin of the angle, of the increasing circumference arc from the point of origin"
https://en.wikipedia.org Inverse-square Law
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- #93
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Give me a minute I'm slowly digesting the information... lol
This means that if I have all the variables I could apply the reverse square law equation to calculate the perfect distance from the lights to the top of the soil ?? (not the top of the canopy if we indeed want to cover the full extent of the plant) and that would stop my leaves from their necrotic death?
-Keep in mind the actual distance from top soil - lights is 43 inches right now.
-The 9 other Cannabis plants I have running next are not showing any signs of leaf deterioration to the extent of the Blue Berry. But they are one month younger and have not shown signs of sex.
One more question
How could we be sure that all these visible symptoms are not a consequences of some sorts of "light shock" from an extended Diminishing Light Schedule photoperiod that started at 14/10 and loses an hour each month that passes by rather than slowly decreasing by day allowing the plant to properly adapt itself to the hormonal changes?
In nature the daylight shortens by every 24 hr cycle (here in my area), so every day the plant could adapt more comfortably to the hormonal changes induced by flowering. But when I sustain this photoperiod I force the plant to repeat for X amount of time the same hormonal producing signal over and over again, pattern we see in 18/6 photoperiod we call Veg, the same signal is repeated with the same strength and very clear "produce more leaves".
Could this be why the plant only is pushing out 1 leaflet leaves we know as sugar leaf and not the traditional 5-7 pointed leaf? Even more weird is that the plant keeps shooting leaf, calyx, pistils and visible trichomes almost at the same ratio (signs of early flowering). Also the photoperiod right now should not allow theses plants to flower yet the Blue Berry is very ready to receive pollen as we can tell from the abundance of pistils... Why is she doing all this? It can't all be a result of inaccuracy in the distance canopy-lights, it would be to easy to figure out how to grow indoors, we just apply the equation to find the right distance in accordance to the out put of the light source. And we all know it not all about a lot light and a lot of nuts it takes far more than that to have healthy looking plants.
So we are playing with two variables in the experiment distance from the lights and photoperiod. Never mind UVB radiation we just started that today.
This means that if I have all the variables I could apply the reverse square law equation to calculate the perfect distance from the lights to the top of the soil ?? (not the top of the canopy if we indeed want to cover the full extent of the plant) and that would stop my leaves from their necrotic death?
-Keep in mind the actual distance from top soil - lights is 43 inches right now.
-The 9 other Cannabis plants I have running next are not showing any signs of leaf deterioration to the extent of the Blue Berry. But they are one month younger and have not shown signs of sex.
One more question
How could we be sure that all these visible symptoms are not a consequences of some sorts of "light shock" from an extended Diminishing Light Schedule photoperiod that started at 14/10 and loses an hour each month that passes by rather than slowly decreasing by day allowing the plant to properly adapt itself to the hormonal changes?
In nature the daylight shortens by every 24 hr cycle (here in my area), so every day the plant could adapt more comfortably to the hormonal changes induced by flowering. But when I sustain this photoperiod I force the plant to repeat for X amount of time the same hormonal producing signal over and over again, pattern we see in 18/6 photoperiod we call Veg, the same signal is repeated with the same strength and very clear "produce more leaves".
Could this be why the plant only is pushing out 1 leaflet leaves we know as sugar leaf and not the traditional 5-7 pointed leaf? Even more weird is that the plant keeps shooting leaf, calyx, pistils and visible trichomes almost at the same ratio (signs of early flowering). Also the photoperiod right now should not allow theses plants to flower yet the Blue Berry is very ready to receive pollen as we can tell from the abundance of pistils... Why is she doing all this? It can't all be a result of inaccuracy in the distance canopy-lights, it would be to easy to figure out how to grow indoors, we just apply the equation to find the right distance in accordance to the out put of the light source. And we all know it not all about a lot light and a lot of nuts it takes far more than that to have healthy looking plants.
So we are playing with two variables in the experiment distance from the lights and photoperiod. Never mind UVB radiation we just started that today.
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- #94
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Ok after doing some calculations I came to this number KingJ
Right now I need to cover a surface 43" height X 32" width X 32" depth which corresponds too the available space, with my 44,000 lumens at 600 watts.
Applying the formula Intensity = I/(d)2
From the Origin of the light source point 0" to 12" from it = technically I have most of my out put intact hitting my surface that is my plants pot at (11") of surface. 44,000 lumens at 600 watts.
from 12" to 24" = 2 times the radius (12"x12") or 2 x distance from point 0, 4 times the surface is covered so I lose proportionally inverse intensity = 144 square inches of surface are covered but I lose half the intensity 22,000 lumens at 300watts.
from 24" to 36" = 3 times the radius (12"x12"x12") or 9 times the surface is covered, I lose intensity = I cover 1,728 cubic inches of space but now I have 14,666 Lumens at 200 watts.
Applying the formula Intensity = I/d2
Intensity = 44,000 Lumens / (3 x 12inches)2
Intensity = 44,000 Lumens / 1,296 (inch)2
Intensity = 33,95 Lumens per (inch)2.
Square root of Intensity = Square root of 33,95 Lumens per (inch)2
Intensity = 5.826 Lumens per inch
Intensity = 600 watt / (3 x 12 inches)2
Intensity = 600 watt / 1,296 (inch)2
Intensity = 0.462 watt per (inch)2
Square root of Intensity = Square root of 0.462 watt per (inches)2
Intensity = 0.68 watts per inch.
Im really not sure about this calculations... thats the best I could do actually, does it even sound possible??
Right now I need to cover a surface 43" height X 32" width X 32" depth which corresponds too the available space, with my 44,000 lumens at 600 watts.
Applying the formula Intensity = I/(d)2
From the Origin of the light source point 0" to 12" from it = technically I have most of my out put intact hitting my surface that is my plants pot at (11") of surface. 44,000 lumens at 600 watts.
from 12" to 24" = 2 times the radius (12"x12") or 2 x distance from point 0, 4 times the surface is covered so I lose proportionally inverse intensity = 144 square inches of surface are covered but I lose half the intensity 22,000 lumens at 300watts.
from 24" to 36" = 3 times the radius (12"x12"x12") or 9 times the surface is covered, I lose intensity = I cover 1,728 cubic inches of space but now I have 14,666 Lumens at 200 watts.
Applying the formula Intensity = I/d2
Intensity = 44,000 Lumens / (3 x 12inches)2
Intensity = 44,000 Lumens / 1,296 (inch)2
Intensity = 33,95 Lumens per (inch)2.
Square root of Intensity = Square root of 33,95 Lumens per (inch)2
Intensity = 5.826 Lumens per inch
Intensity = 600 watt / (3 x 12 inches)2
Intensity = 600 watt / 1,296 (inch)2
Intensity = 0.462 watt per (inch)2
Square root of Intensity = Square root of 0.462 watt per (inches)2
Intensity = 0.68 watts per inch.
Im really not sure about this calculations... thats the best I could do actually, does it even sound possible??
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- #95
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Piece of information about Fan Leaves and trimming. Very informative.
"Should Fan Leaves be Trimmed?
There are a number of theories why fan leaves should or should not be removed. The purpose of this paper is to analyze cannabis cultivation techniques that advocate for and against fan leaf removal. A summary of each theory is presented, followed by a review of fan leaf function. The different theories advocating for and against the removal of fan leaves are then discussed in the context of fan leaf function and cultivation techniques.
THEORIES WHY TO TRIM FAN LEAVES
Increase Lower Bud Development
The fan leaves shade lower buds and that these buds do not develop to there full potential because of a reduction in lighting intensity due to shading from upper fan leaves.
To conserve energy for upper bud development
Trimming fan leaves and lower, shaded branches focuses the plant?s development on main top buds (Che Bleu, 03.13.2002). A plant wastes precious energy several ways. A tall plant needs to use energy to build extra stem, and then use extra energy to move water up higher, this is why I believe “scrog” methods are productive. An untrimmed bushy plant causes the plant to expend energy to build elaborate branches and leaves, and then has to use excess energy to supply all these structures. Careful trimming to remove unnecessary branches (which wont produce nice buds) and unproductive suckers will leave more energy for a larger yield. Suckers do exactly as their name suggests, they suck needless energy from the plant which can be put to better use, towards yield (Leaf, 03.13.2002).
Reduce the Stretch
If fan leaves are trimmed during the early flowering stage, the stretch is reduced (Che Bleu, 03.13.2002). Reducing the stretch might be advantageous in certain cultivation conditions.
Speeding Up The Flushing Process
Remove some of the fan leaves 14 days before harvest. It helps speed up the flushing process and or makes flushing unnecessary (Homemadepot, 03.13.2002).
Reduce The Chance of Mould
Removal of dead fan leaves is necessary to reduce the risk of mould. Failing to “clear the airway” can lead to development of mould in the “crowded” areas of the plant (Jeast, 03.13.2002).
Scrog growers may also reduce the chance of mould by removing fan leaves due to reduce the level of transpiration. This is because many scrog grows are in a confined space where humidity is a serious problem (DoctorDangerous, 09.04.2002). However with better ventilation it may be necessary to avoid the mould problem (Nietzsche, 09.04.2002).
Increase root development on Clones
Fan leaves on clones should have their blades cut in half, to make the clone grow slowly while a root system develops (Weezil, 03.12.2002).
HOW DO FAN LEAVES FUNCTION
The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth substances. Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant).
Fan leaves account for the greatest area for the reception of photons on a plant, thus they account for the majority of photosynthesis which occurs within a plant. Cells in the plant’s leaves, called chloroplasts, contain a green pigment called chlorophyll which interacts with sunlight to split the water in the plant into its basic components. Leaves only absorb about 15% of the solar energy that hits them, the other 85% passes through-- but they reflect all the green light, which means it looks darker below the leaf to a human than it does to the plant because our eyes are most sensitive to the green spectrum (Shipperke, 03.15.2002).
Photosynthesis occurs in all green parts of plants. The process has two stages, the light reactions and the Calvin cycle, that convert water and carbon dioxide into sugar and oxygen. These sugars are later used to power all the processes in the plant, including the synthesis of THC and other cannabinoids (Shipperke, 04.02.2002; Ca, 03.13.2002). Fan leaves possess the greatest number of stomata, which are small pores or valves on the underside of the leaf which water vapor and carbon dioxide diffuse during transpiration and photosynthesis (carbon fixation). Carbon dioxide first enters the leaf through the stomata and combines with the stored energy in the chloroplasts through a chemical reaction (the Calvin cycle) to produce a simple sugar. This sugar is unloaded into the tissues and transported through tubes in the leaf to supply the synthesized food to other plant parts such as growing or respiring tissues like young leaves, roots, and flowers of the plant. meristems (UK Tricky Knome, 03.14.2002).
Removal of fan leaves will not only slow growth, but it will also hinder the plants ability to rid itself of toxic gases, and also hinder the regulation of the plants temperature via stomata. Changes in the plants chemical metabolism caused by fan leave removal causes the plant to work overtime to rid ?toxins? with less leaves, as a result the pant may allocate more growth hormones into growing more leaves to make up for what has been lost(Equator, 03.15.2002). Removing large amounts of fan leaves may also interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic imbalance.
There is a relationship regarding the amount of carbohydrates a leaf produces and CO2 intake relative to outside forces. When you have a situation whereby the leaf is no longer productive for the plant for whatever reason that may be - low light, old age, disease, insect attack etc, the plant will discard it. (Thunderbunny as citied, by Nietzsche, 03.13.2002.
Plants have two different kinds of vessels in their stems to move stuff around, xylem and phloem. Xylem runs from the roots up the stem carrying water and nutrients. Phloem runs both up and down to move sugars hormones, proteins, etc but mostly sugars. Each part of the plant can be either a sugar source or a sugar sink (Shipperke, 03.15.2002). Phloem moves from sources (areas of supply) to sinks (areas of metabolism or storage). Granted that the flowers can produce some photosynthate, but they are no where near as effective as fan leaves (resin glands significantly reduce light to the tissue they are found on). Flowers are sink tissues, leaves are source tissues. Sinks do not produce enough photosynthate, and are importers. Sources give photosynthate to sinks in closest proximity. Upper leaves bring sucrose to shoot apical meristem and young leaves while lower leaves bring goodies to roots (UK Tricky Knome, 03.17.2002). Remove the source and the sink will be affected (Diels Alder, 03.15.2002).
The leaves at the top of a plant tend to supply the top growing shoots. The leaves at the bottom of the plant tend to supply the roots. The middle leaves can go either way as the demand changes. During flowering and fruiting, only the very bottom leaves supply the roots and the rest of the leaves try to get as much energy as possible to the flowers of fruits. For this reason, the more leaves are unshaded and in good light, the more chance the plant has of creating extra storage of energy that will ultimately go into yield (Leaf, 03.13.2002). However Jeast (03.13.02) believes that the rich green leaves emerging from the bud are a sufficient energy source of solar energy for the plant’s floral development. Therefore the old fan leaves are once again rendered useless and only drain energy from the developing part of the plant (Jeast, 03.13.02).
Fan leaves store mobile nutrients, these stored nutrients are essential in the later stages of flowering. When flushing a plant the fan leaves will lose their color quickly. This is because the nutrients are being mobilized to the atypical meristem (grow tip, bud site). Draining your fan leaves with a flushing period will increase floral development (Ca, 13.03.2002). Fan leaves therefore serve as a nutrient deficiency buffer zone for the plant (Higstar, 03.13.2002).
Nutrient burn usually causes bottom leaves begin to die however DaGnome (03.15.2002) observed that if you do not remove the leaves then they will absorb damage as premature removal generally results in more leaf loss. However if growing hydroponically under ideal conditions it could be argued that fan leaves serve as a nutrient buffer is a moot point.
WHEN AND WHAT TO TRIM IF AT ALL
To trim or not to trim that is the question. Try everything for yourself. Try it all ways. (The Crazy Composer, 13.03.2002). Simply put there is no universal answer it depends on how your are growing when where and what you trim (Cardboardbill, 03.13.2002)
Genetic Variance
Cannabis phenotypes play a large part. A strain with very few leaves and long internodes will need a lot less trimming - if a trimming technique is even adopted. A strain with a surplus of leaves and short internodes would require more thinning to get the same amount of light to the lower buds (The Crazy Composer, 13.03.2002). Cannabis varieties from high sunshine equatorial areas like thai sativa have thin leaves most likely due to more light than say a indicia plant from afghan regions have wider fan leaves due to less light intensity in their natural environment (Lebman, 03.20.2002).
Remove non productive ?dead? leaf material
Here are some signs to look for when removing foliage. Leaves that have reached their final size and are ageing will stop producing chlorophyll and start changing to a lighter color, often yellowing and showing purple petioles (leaf stems). This is when the leaves’ capacity to produce sugars starts to diminish, so they are the ones to take out of the way to allow Sunlight to fall on the younger leaves that are producing at a higher rate. The older leaves, even though larger, are no longer very productive once they are not dark green anymore. By the time they start looking pale or discolored, they are not contributing anything to the plant at all. Obviously, the lower leaves are the oldest and the first to age. Old leaves can be removed at any time they are shading younger ones, but try to never remove a leaf in its expanding stage because it is producing at full power (Leaf, 03.13.2002.
Outdoors, fan leaves serve an additional and very important purpose of protecting the buds from the elements and predators. These leaves often become damaged in the course of doing their duty, and will then wither or break off (Jeast, 03.13.02). However depending on the humidity of the growing climate Leaf (03.13.2002) suggests to trim most leaves that show signs of age, are dull in color, yellowing, and obviously any brown or spotted leaves that have bugs or bug damage to prevent mould.
To Increase Lower Bud Development
Light efficiency decreases with distance. The inverse squared light rule states that illuminance is inversely proportionate to the square of the distance from the light source.
Removing the largest area of photosynthesis that is closest to the light source simply to benefit smaller leaves growing out of the but sites that are further away is not logical when growing indoors”(Smokinrav, 03.15.2002). Cultivating outdoors under the sun, the fan leaves don’t create nearly as much shade as they do indoors (~shabang~, 03.13.2002). This is consistent with the inverse squared light rule; the sun is 149,597,890 km away so a few feet has no real effect on intensity. This suggests that a trimming benefit could be achieved outdoors as opposed to indoors however leaves only absorb about 15% of the solar energy that hits them, the other 85% passes through except for green light which is reflected, therefore removal of fan leaves would only provide a 15% increase light transmission outdoors (Shipperke, 03.15.2002).
Jeast (03.12.2002) removes fan leaves that are yellowing or starting to yellow (these are usually on the lower stems) and also mid-stem fan leaves that are shading buds. He always try to retain the upper 2 - 3 sets of fan leaves indoors as he believe they are the ones that are truly “working”. The concept of the upper fan leaves doing all the work is consistent with effect of the inverse square rule on lighting intensity indoors and the flow on effect for photosynthesis. In support for trimming HyGradeChronic (03.25.2002) states selective trimming benefits lower floral development, allowing the buds to fill out and tighten up better. However he does mention that humidity must be kept to a minimum as leftover stems from the leaf can develop mould unless kept at optimum humidity. Another flow on effect to leaf trimming mentioned by HydradeChronic is that it takes seven to ten days longer for floral development to finish, but the resulting florescence is at it?s peak from top to bottom.
An alternative to trimming to increase light to lower floral clusters is to use a light mover on a single plant the results are better thanks to the better penetration of light at different angles. Even simple under lighting and side lighting works well to counter fan leaves by adding extra light where it would not normally get (Vapour, 03/13.2002).
Increase upper bud development
What folks need to focus on is the causes of premature leaf drop as that negatively affects yields. If you’ve read my posts over the years, I try to pound that issue home whenever given a chance. After a good root development, the most important element in floral production is the retention of healthy leaves (Thunderbunny as citied, by Nietzsche, 03.13.2002).
Green Reaper (03.12.2002) suggests that large leaves actually take more energy to maintain than they produce. In contrast Thunderbunny (as citied, by Nietzsche, 03.13.2002) states that when a leaf no longer serves a productive purpose, the plant will remove the leftover metabolites from the leaf, which causes the old spotty, yellowing, necrotic image and then the leaf drops. Once that leaf is gone, a percentage of what would be available carbohydrates for future plant growth is diminished in direct relationship to the loss. The mobility of plants sugars and nutrients suggests that fully developed fan leaves are sources not sinks. Whether developing fan leaves are a sink or a source however is not as clear. An actively growing leaf may be a sink, using energy from the other parts of the plant to fuel their development (George, 03.20.2002). Older developed leaves and that are sources. However there is no evidence to support that during the plants life cycle the development of fan leaves takes more energy then a fully developed fan leave provides, that is to say sink phase is greater than the source phase (Nietzsche). It would also seem illogical from an evolutionary point of view that a plant would evolve to produce leaves that take more energy to sustain then they produce (~shabang~, 03.13.2002).
Trim fan leaves in the last 14 days to help speed up flushing
It helps speed up the flushing process and or makes flushing unnecessary (Homemadepot, 03.13.2002). However the leaves should naturally yellow, too much green in the leaves translates to too much “green” taste in the leaves in my opinion (Bigislandbud, 03.14.2002).
Reducing the Stretch
If trimming fan leaves reduced the stretch it is likely that this occurred because it takes away from the plant’s available energy stores and energy generators (~Shabang~, 03.13.2002). This method of reducing the stretch should only be used if absolutely necessary, other options include chemical treatment may be a more viable option.
HOW TO TRIM IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO
If you decide to trim your fan leaves, one should always do it by clipping the petiole about halfway between the base of the fan leaf and the stem/branch. Allow the remainder of the petiole to dry up and fall off on its own. This will help protect the plant from risks of infections. They should never be stripped or broken off at the base of the petiole as that would be expose more chance of infecting the plant. Petiole is the he foot stalk of a leaf (10k, 03.16.2002)
Leaf (03.13.2002) believes that excessive leaf trimming and branch pruning will cause the plant to use extra energy to repair itself. However, trimming must be done from time to time, for the longer a plant is left untrimmed, the more material must be removed at one time, therefore the greater the damage that the plant will need to repair. Do not trim fan leaves during veg either, unless they turn yellow. The first real pruning starts when going into 12/12 (Jeast, 03.13.2002). When trimming and pruning, I try to ensure that I do not cause the plant to ‘bleed’. Leaf tries to pinch off shoots and leaves with my fingernails as opposed to leaving a clean cut. One thing to remember is every time you cut into any part of a plant, you are exposing the inside of the plant to fungus and bacteria (Leaf, 03.13.2002).
Tuck instead of trimming
Another method is to tuck your fans leaves under to expose the buds, don’t forget that even though they wont be getting as much light they are still photosynthesizing and more importantly exchanging gases storing nutrients, and building sugars which the bud then converts into THC and other cannibinoids (Ca, 13.03.2002)
This Synopsis paper, is a consensus of opinions compiled in the Overgrow Growing Consensus forum. Compiled and written by Nietzsche, originally posted 4/20/2002. 022006"
"Should Fan Leaves be Trimmed?
There are a number of theories why fan leaves should or should not be removed. The purpose of this paper is to analyze cannabis cultivation techniques that advocate for and against fan leaf removal. A summary of each theory is presented, followed by a review of fan leaf function. The different theories advocating for and against the removal of fan leaves are then discussed in the context of fan leaf function and cultivation techniques.
THEORIES WHY TO TRIM FAN LEAVES
Increase Lower Bud Development
The fan leaves shade lower buds and that these buds do not develop to there full potential because of a reduction in lighting intensity due to shading from upper fan leaves.
To conserve energy for upper bud development
Trimming fan leaves and lower, shaded branches focuses the plant?s development on main top buds (Che Bleu, 03.13.2002). A plant wastes precious energy several ways. A tall plant needs to use energy to build extra stem, and then use extra energy to move water up higher, this is why I believe “scrog” methods are productive. An untrimmed bushy plant causes the plant to expend energy to build elaborate branches and leaves, and then has to use excess energy to supply all these structures. Careful trimming to remove unnecessary branches (which wont produce nice buds) and unproductive suckers will leave more energy for a larger yield. Suckers do exactly as their name suggests, they suck needless energy from the plant which can be put to better use, towards yield (Leaf, 03.13.2002).
Reduce the Stretch
If fan leaves are trimmed during the early flowering stage, the stretch is reduced (Che Bleu, 03.13.2002). Reducing the stretch might be advantageous in certain cultivation conditions.
Speeding Up The Flushing Process
Remove some of the fan leaves 14 days before harvest. It helps speed up the flushing process and or makes flushing unnecessary (Homemadepot, 03.13.2002).
Reduce The Chance of Mould
Removal of dead fan leaves is necessary to reduce the risk of mould. Failing to “clear the airway” can lead to development of mould in the “crowded” areas of the plant (Jeast, 03.13.2002).
Scrog growers may also reduce the chance of mould by removing fan leaves due to reduce the level of transpiration. This is because many scrog grows are in a confined space where humidity is a serious problem (DoctorDangerous, 09.04.2002). However with better ventilation it may be necessary to avoid the mould problem (Nietzsche, 09.04.2002).
Increase root development on Clones
Fan leaves on clones should have their blades cut in half, to make the clone grow slowly while a root system develops (Weezil, 03.12.2002).
HOW DO FAN LEAVES FUNCTION
The large fan leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth substances. Most cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage and this trend continues on until senescence (death of the plant).
Fan leaves account for the greatest area for the reception of photons on a plant, thus they account for the majority of photosynthesis which occurs within a plant. Cells in the plant’s leaves, called chloroplasts, contain a green pigment called chlorophyll which interacts with sunlight to split the water in the plant into its basic components. Leaves only absorb about 15% of the solar energy that hits them, the other 85% passes through-- but they reflect all the green light, which means it looks darker below the leaf to a human than it does to the plant because our eyes are most sensitive to the green spectrum (Shipperke, 03.15.2002).
Photosynthesis occurs in all green parts of plants. The process has two stages, the light reactions and the Calvin cycle, that convert water and carbon dioxide into sugar and oxygen. These sugars are later used to power all the processes in the plant, including the synthesis of THC and other cannabinoids (Shipperke, 04.02.2002; Ca, 03.13.2002). Fan leaves possess the greatest number of stomata, which are small pores or valves on the underside of the leaf which water vapor and carbon dioxide diffuse during transpiration and photosynthesis (carbon fixation). Carbon dioxide first enters the leaf through the stomata and combines with the stored energy in the chloroplasts through a chemical reaction (the Calvin cycle) to produce a simple sugar. This sugar is unloaded into the tissues and transported through tubes in the leaf to supply the synthesized food to other plant parts such as growing or respiring tissues like young leaves, roots, and flowers of the plant. meristems (UK Tricky Knome, 03.14.2002).
Removal of fan leaves will not only slow growth, but it will also hinder the plants ability to rid itself of toxic gases, and also hinder the regulation of the plants temperature via stomata. Changes in the plants chemical metabolism caused by fan leave removal causes the plant to work overtime to rid ?toxins? with less leaves, as a result the pant may allocate more growth hormones into growing more leaves to make up for what has been lost(Equator, 03.15.2002). Removing large amounts of fan leaves may also interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic imbalance.
There is a relationship regarding the amount of carbohydrates a leaf produces and CO2 intake relative to outside forces. When you have a situation whereby the leaf is no longer productive for the plant for whatever reason that may be - low light, old age, disease, insect attack etc, the plant will discard it. (Thunderbunny as citied, by Nietzsche, 03.13.2002.
Plants have two different kinds of vessels in their stems to move stuff around, xylem and phloem. Xylem runs from the roots up the stem carrying water and nutrients. Phloem runs both up and down to move sugars hormones, proteins, etc but mostly sugars. Each part of the plant can be either a sugar source or a sugar sink (Shipperke, 03.15.2002). Phloem moves from sources (areas of supply) to sinks (areas of metabolism or storage). Granted that the flowers can produce some photosynthate, but they are no where near as effective as fan leaves (resin glands significantly reduce light to the tissue they are found on). Flowers are sink tissues, leaves are source tissues. Sinks do not produce enough photosynthate, and are importers. Sources give photosynthate to sinks in closest proximity. Upper leaves bring sucrose to shoot apical meristem and young leaves while lower leaves bring goodies to roots (UK Tricky Knome, 03.17.2002). Remove the source and the sink will be affected (Diels Alder, 03.15.2002).
The leaves at the top of a plant tend to supply the top growing shoots. The leaves at the bottom of the plant tend to supply the roots. The middle leaves can go either way as the demand changes. During flowering and fruiting, only the very bottom leaves supply the roots and the rest of the leaves try to get as much energy as possible to the flowers of fruits. For this reason, the more leaves are unshaded and in good light, the more chance the plant has of creating extra storage of energy that will ultimately go into yield (Leaf, 03.13.2002). However Jeast (03.13.02) believes that the rich green leaves emerging from the bud are a sufficient energy source of solar energy for the plant’s floral development. Therefore the old fan leaves are once again rendered useless and only drain energy from the developing part of the plant (Jeast, 03.13.02).
Fan leaves store mobile nutrients, these stored nutrients are essential in the later stages of flowering. When flushing a plant the fan leaves will lose their color quickly. This is because the nutrients are being mobilized to the atypical meristem (grow tip, bud site). Draining your fan leaves with a flushing period will increase floral development (Ca, 13.03.2002). Fan leaves therefore serve as a nutrient deficiency buffer zone for the plant (Higstar, 03.13.2002).
Nutrient burn usually causes bottom leaves begin to die however DaGnome (03.15.2002) observed that if you do not remove the leaves then they will absorb damage as premature removal generally results in more leaf loss. However if growing hydroponically under ideal conditions it could be argued that fan leaves serve as a nutrient buffer is a moot point.
WHEN AND WHAT TO TRIM IF AT ALL
To trim or not to trim that is the question. Try everything for yourself. Try it all ways. (The Crazy Composer, 13.03.2002). Simply put there is no universal answer it depends on how your are growing when where and what you trim (Cardboardbill, 03.13.2002)
Genetic Variance
Cannabis phenotypes play a large part. A strain with very few leaves and long internodes will need a lot less trimming - if a trimming technique is even adopted. A strain with a surplus of leaves and short internodes would require more thinning to get the same amount of light to the lower buds (The Crazy Composer, 13.03.2002). Cannabis varieties from high sunshine equatorial areas like thai sativa have thin leaves most likely due to more light than say a indicia plant from afghan regions have wider fan leaves due to less light intensity in their natural environment (Lebman, 03.20.2002).
Remove non productive ?dead? leaf material
Here are some signs to look for when removing foliage. Leaves that have reached their final size and are ageing will stop producing chlorophyll and start changing to a lighter color, often yellowing and showing purple petioles (leaf stems). This is when the leaves’ capacity to produce sugars starts to diminish, so they are the ones to take out of the way to allow Sunlight to fall on the younger leaves that are producing at a higher rate. The older leaves, even though larger, are no longer very productive once they are not dark green anymore. By the time they start looking pale or discolored, they are not contributing anything to the plant at all. Obviously, the lower leaves are the oldest and the first to age. Old leaves can be removed at any time they are shading younger ones, but try to never remove a leaf in its expanding stage because it is producing at full power (Leaf, 03.13.2002.
Outdoors, fan leaves serve an additional and very important purpose of protecting the buds from the elements and predators. These leaves often become damaged in the course of doing their duty, and will then wither or break off (Jeast, 03.13.02). However depending on the humidity of the growing climate Leaf (03.13.2002) suggests to trim most leaves that show signs of age, are dull in color, yellowing, and obviously any brown or spotted leaves that have bugs or bug damage to prevent mould.
To Increase Lower Bud Development
Light efficiency decreases with distance. The inverse squared light rule states that illuminance is inversely proportionate to the square of the distance from the light source.
Removing the largest area of photosynthesis that is closest to the light source simply to benefit smaller leaves growing out of the but sites that are further away is not logical when growing indoors”(Smokinrav, 03.15.2002). Cultivating outdoors under the sun, the fan leaves don’t create nearly as much shade as they do indoors (~shabang~, 03.13.2002). This is consistent with the inverse squared light rule; the sun is 149,597,890 km away so a few feet has no real effect on intensity. This suggests that a trimming benefit could be achieved outdoors as opposed to indoors however leaves only absorb about 15% of the solar energy that hits them, the other 85% passes through except for green light which is reflected, therefore removal of fan leaves would only provide a 15% increase light transmission outdoors (Shipperke, 03.15.2002).
Jeast (03.12.2002) removes fan leaves that are yellowing or starting to yellow (these are usually on the lower stems) and also mid-stem fan leaves that are shading buds. He always try to retain the upper 2 - 3 sets of fan leaves indoors as he believe they are the ones that are truly “working”. The concept of the upper fan leaves doing all the work is consistent with effect of the inverse square rule on lighting intensity indoors and the flow on effect for photosynthesis. In support for trimming HyGradeChronic (03.25.2002) states selective trimming benefits lower floral development, allowing the buds to fill out and tighten up better. However he does mention that humidity must be kept to a minimum as leftover stems from the leaf can develop mould unless kept at optimum humidity. Another flow on effect to leaf trimming mentioned by HydradeChronic is that it takes seven to ten days longer for floral development to finish, but the resulting florescence is at it?s peak from top to bottom.
An alternative to trimming to increase light to lower floral clusters is to use a light mover on a single plant the results are better thanks to the better penetration of light at different angles. Even simple under lighting and side lighting works well to counter fan leaves by adding extra light where it would not normally get (Vapour, 03/13.2002).
Increase upper bud development
What folks need to focus on is the causes of premature leaf drop as that negatively affects yields. If you’ve read my posts over the years, I try to pound that issue home whenever given a chance. After a good root development, the most important element in floral production is the retention of healthy leaves (Thunderbunny as citied, by Nietzsche, 03.13.2002).
Green Reaper (03.12.2002) suggests that large leaves actually take more energy to maintain than they produce. In contrast Thunderbunny (as citied, by Nietzsche, 03.13.2002) states that when a leaf no longer serves a productive purpose, the plant will remove the leftover metabolites from the leaf, which causes the old spotty, yellowing, necrotic image and then the leaf drops. Once that leaf is gone, a percentage of what would be available carbohydrates for future plant growth is diminished in direct relationship to the loss. The mobility of plants sugars and nutrients suggests that fully developed fan leaves are sources not sinks. Whether developing fan leaves are a sink or a source however is not as clear. An actively growing leaf may be a sink, using energy from the other parts of the plant to fuel their development (George, 03.20.2002). Older developed leaves and that are sources. However there is no evidence to support that during the plants life cycle the development of fan leaves takes more energy then a fully developed fan leave provides, that is to say sink phase is greater than the source phase (Nietzsche). It would also seem illogical from an evolutionary point of view that a plant would evolve to produce leaves that take more energy to sustain then they produce (~shabang~, 03.13.2002).
Trim fan leaves in the last 14 days to help speed up flushing
It helps speed up the flushing process and or makes flushing unnecessary (Homemadepot, 03.13.2002). However the leaves should naturally yellow, too much green in the leaves translates to too much “green” taste in the leaves in my opinion (Bigislandbud, 03.14.2002).
Reducing the Stretch
If trimming fan leaves reduced the stretch it is likely that this occurred because it takes away from the plant’s available energy stores and energy generators (~Shabang~, 03.13.2002). This method of reducing the stretch should only be used if absolutely necessary, other options include chemical treatment may be a more viable option.
HOW TO TRIM IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO
If you decide to trim your fan leaves, one should always do it by clipping the petiole about halfway between the base of the fan leaf and the stem/branch. Allow the remainder of the petiole to dry up and fall off on its own. This will help protect the plant from risks of infections. They should never be stripped or broken off at the base of the petiole as that would be expose more chance of infecting the plant. Petiole is the he foot stalk of a leaf (10k, 03.16.2002)
Leaf (03.13.2002) believes that excessive leaf trimming and branch pruning will cause the plant to use extra energy to repair itself. However, trimming must be done from time to time, for the longer a plant is left untrimmed, the more material must be removed at one time, therefore the greater the damage that the plant will need to repair. Do not trim fan leaves during veg either, unless they turn yellow. The first real pruning starts when going into 12/12 (Jeast, 03.13.2002). When trimming and pruning, I try to ensure that I do not cause the plant to ‘bleed’. Leaf tries to pinch off shoots and leaves with my fingernails as opposed to leaving a clean cut. One thing to remember is every time you cut into any part of a plant, you are exposing the inside of the plant to fungus and bacteria (Leaf, 03.13.2002).
Tuck instead of trimming
Another method is to tuck your fans leaves under to expose the buds, don’t forget that even though they wont be getting as much light they are still photosynthesizing and more importantly exchanging gases storing nutrients, and building sugars which the bud then converts into THC and other cannibinoids (Ca, 13.03.2002)
This Synopsis paper, is a consensus of opinions compiled in the Overgrow Growing Consensus forum. Compiled and written by Nietzsche, originally posted 4/20/2002. 022006"
- Thread starter
- #96
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
More interesting findings about Photoperiods, lighting, spectrum of light and forced flowering, very very interesting. I can only think of one person that has successfully forced flowered and flowers year around and that is Lester, hope you can find this abstract useful broda.
"Experiments At The Cutting Edge
Since humans first noticed that they could alter the outcome of nature by planting seeds, we have been manipulating plant environments. Irrigation, fertilization, pruning and breeding have been included in our bag of agricultural tricks for several millennia.
The use of light and lighting to manipulate plant growth began in the early 20th century with the advent of the modern floral industry. At that time chrysanthemums were available only seasonally in the fall. Researchers learned that their flowering could be delayed or induced by a lighting regimen. Chrysanthemums were discovered to be a short-day plant. SDP refers to the plant's sensitivity to and measure of the length of the dark period, not to the lit period. Secondly they require a certain critical period of darkness, the number of hours of uninterrupted darkness, to be induced to flower. The number of hours varies by variety.
Marijuana growers use the same techniques as chrysanthemum farmers because cannabis is also an SDP. Indoor growers usually place the plants in flowering by reducing the number of lit hours to 12, resulting in 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness.
CRITICAL LIGHT PERIOD
The 12-12 formula has been accepted without question by growers all over the world. Probably one of the reasons for this was my discussion of the technique in some of my early books. The 12-12 regimen was selected because my co-author and I reasoned that no matter what critical period a variety might have, given 12 hours of darkness it would flower. However, most marijuana varieties need fewer than 12 hours of darkness to flower.
If marijuana plants grown outdoors required a 12-hour dark period to flower, they would not be induced to start flowering until September 21, the first day of autumn, when day and night are equal length. They would ripen 6-8 weeks later. In real life most modern varieties ripen between early September and late October. Budding was triggered 6-8 weeks earlier. For instance, an eight-week variety that requires 55 days from forcing to maturity, which would normally ripen on October 1st, would start flowering August 1. At that date in San Francisco, sunrise occurs at 5:14 and sunset at 19:18, a total of 14 hours 4 minutes. Dawn and dusk add another 15 minutes of red light. Plants use the absence of this spectrum to measure the dark period. The total lit period came to about 14:20, leaving 9:40 minutes of darkness. The critical period for this plant was 9 hours 40 minutes. If it were given just 10 hours of dark period daily indoors, rather than 12 hours, it would still flower.
Gardeners growing outdoors who discover the critical time needed to induce flowering can use this information to get more efficient use of their indoor garden. Currently, plants grown under a 12/12 cycle spend half their time in the dark. If the plants have a critical flowering time of, for instance, 10 hours of darkness daily, they can be provided 14 rather than 12 hours of light each day so that they receive almost 17% more energy which they use to produce sugars used for more and faster growth.
MANIPULATING LIGHT OUTDOORS
Sometimes I think nature didn't get it right as far as marijuana ripening is concerned. If it were determined by human needs, the buds would be ready in late spring, so they'd be readily available in early summer, the party season. If they ripened at the best time for the farmer, it would be in high summer when the weather was warm and the sun strong. Alas, nature has chosen the fall. The harvest can be good if the weather doesn't attack first.
With a bit of effort you can manipulate the outdoor light cycle to grow and flower the plants at your convenience. I think that the best and most convenient time to harvest is during the summer rather than the fall. Buds that ripen midsummer experience much more intense light and much more UV spectrum than fall ripened buds. The intense light gives the plant energy to grow a bigger bud. The UV light increases its potency.
To force the plants to flower during the summer they need to receive the critical dark period each day. Covering the plants with a blackout cloth each day so they receive 12 hours of darkness pushes the plants into flowering mode. Decide whether you are going to restrict light at the beginning or end of each day. If you restrict light during in the morning, place the blackout cloth over the plants just before dawn; then remove it promptly at the appointed time. For instance, if the sun sets at 20:30 the curtain, which was placed on the garden at 5:00 right before dawn, is removed at 8:30. (If you know the plants' critical time period for flowering you can adjust the curtain times accordingly.)
If the plants are to be covered in the afternoon then count forward 12 hours from sunrise. If the sun rises at 6:00, the curtains should go on at 18:00. Remove the cover at the end of dusk. The cover is removed because moisture builds up on it from dew and plant transpiration. Removing the cover limits the time the plant experiences a high humidity environment. In late stages, mold prevention measures should be taken. The plants can be sprayed with Serenade biological fungicide, Zero Tolerance herbal fungicide, potassium bicarbonate or other fungicides.
In some parts of the country, such as the gulf coast and parts of southern California, the temperature never dips below 7.2C and plants can be grown all year round. In areas that are slightly cooler but never freeze, a cold frame or unheated greenhouse is all that is required to keep the plants growing. Besides temperature, the problem with growing plants outdoors during the winter is that the dark period is more than 12 hours and the plants are triggered to flower. This is a good time to grow a sativa dominant hybrid because these varieties continue to grow even after they have been triggered to flower.
Another technique is to interrupt the dark cycle with light. The light doesn't need to light the plant for long, just a few seconds. Think of it as a water spray. You want to get all the leaves "wet" with light, but once they have been sprayed they need no more light. This short interruption of the dark cycle is enough to reset the time count of uninterrupted darkness. By lighting the plants every few hours during the dark period, the plants continue to grow vegetatively, and not flower.
When the light interruption stops, the plants immediately start to flower. Plants can be started in August and planting can continue throughout the winter. To increase growth natural light can be enhanced using reflective material and electric lights. Spring starts on March 22 and on that day light and dark share equal time. At the equinox, or shortly thereafter, the dark period becomes too short to support flowering, and the plants will grow vegetatively.
To get the best possible harvest, force spring plants to flower in June. If plants are forced June 1, they will be ready in mid- to late-July. If they are forced July 1, they will ripen in mid August.
UVB LIGHT
Ultra-violet B light is a spectrum of light that is invisible to us but is visible to insects and some other organisms. In humans it causes suntan and sunburn and is implicated in the formation of eye cataracts. It is the light emitted by tanning bulbs.
UVB light also affects marijuana potency. The potency of high quality marijuana increases in direct ratio to the amount of UVB light it receives. This is very significant. In California, where the medical dispensaries operate in an unrestricted market; many dispensaries reject fall harvested outdoor material as inferior. They have found it lacks the potency of indoor crops and is a harsh smoke. However, when they were presented with marijuana grown outdoors but forced to ripen August 10, they accepted it as if it were indoor because of its high potency and lack of harshness. I think the harshness results from cool nights.
Indoors, under fluorescent and HPS lamps, gardens receive little UV-B light. Metal halides emit a bit more. However, there are ways of supplying your garden with UV-B light. Tanning lamps work, that is, lamps that tan people, because of the UV-B light they emit. Using tanning lamps will increase the THC content of the crop. Reptiles and lizards require the spectrum to stay healthy. So the spectrum usually comprises about 10 percent of their output. If you want to try tanning lamps they are available on the Internet. Use between 5-10 percent of your total wattage to these lamps. For a 1000-watt garden use 100 watts of special lighting.
Adding UV-B light to your garden will enhance your marijuana naturally, without "special formulas" and chemicals.
GREEN AND BLUE LIGHT AT NIGHT
As plants evolved for hundreds of millions of years they never actually had to deal with separation of light spectrums or unusual lighting regimes. When they received light it came from the sun in a mixture of spectrums and they could pick and choose which to use. It was only with the advent first of gas and then electric lighting that plants encountered unusual regimens and splintered spectrums.
Plants measure day length using the red light spectrum. While they use other spectrums for other purposes, they are not sensitive to them as far as flowering is concerned. They are almost totally insensitive to green light and for this reason reflect it back to us while absorbing most other spectrums.
Plants' insensitivity to green light can be used to a gardener's advantage. You know that turning the light on in the middle of the dark cycle disturbs the plants' flowering paradigm. The light, HPS, fluorescent and MH lamps all emit red light. Green fluorescent and LED lights contain no red light and will not disturb the dark period. You can go in the garden under adequate light to work, as long as it is green.
Plants use blue light for certain regulatory processes and also for photosynthesis. Chlorophyll absorbs both blue and red light and uses the light's energy to power the complex process in which water and atmospheric carbon dioxide are converted to sugar and oxygen gas. Blue light does not affect the regulation of flowering.
When blue light is turned on during the dark period, plants photosynthesize but their flowering isn't affected. This results in more growth as the plants produce more sugars. Before LED lights it was difficult to create a pure blue light. Instead, most of the time other spectrums were filtered out, which can be an inconvenient process. Try using between 20 and 40 watts of mixed blue light per 1000 watts of regular light. I have done only initial experimentation with this so test this in a limited way first. I suspect that the additional light is an efficient way of increasing total yield
Aside from red and blue light, plants also use orange light for photosynthesis. I haven't experimented with them yet, but orange LEDs might also help increase yield and probably can be lit continuously, just like the blues. More on this as the news breaks–or at least, as it fractures.
Lighting
The plants were placed outside early in the season and would have started flowering under natural light, which included a dark period of slightly less than 11 hours. To keep the plants growing vegetatively and prevent flowering, the plants were "sprayed" with light in the middle of each dark period. The brief lighting reset the plants' chemical countdown of the critical dark period. The frame was made from PVC pipe. The gardener told me that if he were to do it again at least part of the framing would be made from steel and aluminum tubing to make it more stable.
Lighting
An automated HPS light made by PAR Lighting for regulating flowering. This lamp, held over the garden using wires, oscillates back and forth, covering an area of about 2000 square feet. A timer was used to turn the lamp on for 10 minutes every 2 hours of the dark period.
Lighting
The plants, lined up neatly in rows were covered each day using white/ black plastic to limit the lighted period to only 12 hours. At this point the sun was rising at about 6 AM. The plants were covered at 6 PM and then the curtain was removed at 9:30 PM, after dusk. This limited the humidity and dew on the buds. The white part of the plastic, placed on the outside, reflected light to keep the interior cool. The opaque black interior absorbed any light that might penetrate.
Lighting
This lightweight portable carport was used as a greenhouse. The translucent top dispersed the light so there was less shading. The open sides kept air circulating during hot periods. With the threat of inclement weather clear plastic was attached using Velcro to keep the plants dry."
"Experiments At The Cutting Edge
Since humans first noticed that they could alter the outcome of nature by planting seeds, we have been manipulating plant environments. Irrigation, fertilization, pruning and breeding have been included in our bag of agricultural tricks for several millennia.
The use of light and lighting to manipulate plant growth began in the early 20th century with the advent of the modern floral industry. At that time chrysanthemums were available only seasonally in the fall. Researchers learned that their flowering could be delayed or induced by a lighting regimen. Chrysanthemums were discovered to be a short-day plant. SDP refers to the plant's sensitivity to and measure of the length of the dark period, not to the lit period. Secondly they require a certain critical period of darkness, the number of hours of uninterrupted darkness, to be induced to flower. The number of hours varies by variety.
Marijuana growers use the same techniques as chrysanthemum farmers because cannabis is also an SDP. Indoor growers usually place the plants in flowering by reducing the number of lit hours to 12, resulting in 12 hours of uninterrupted darkness.
CRITICAL LIGHT PERIOD
The 12-12 formula has been accepted without question by growers all over the world. Probably one of the reasons for this was my discussion of the technique in some of my early books. The 12-12 regimen was selected because my co-author and I reasoned that no matter what critical period a variety might have, given 12 hours of darkness it would flower. However, most marijuana varieties need fewer than 12 hours of darkness to flower.
If marijuana plants grown outdoors required a 12-hour dark period to flower, they would not be induced to start flowering until September 21, the first day of autumn, when day and night are equal length. They would ripen 6-8 weeks later. In real life most modern varieties ripen between early September and late October. Budding was triggered 6-8 weeks earlier. For instance, an eight-week variety that requires 55 days from forcing to maturity, which would normally ripen on October 1st, would start flowering August 1. At that date in San Francisco, sunrise occurs at 5:14 and sunset at 19:18, a total of 14 hours 4 minutes. Dawn and dusk add another 15 minutes of red light. Plants use the absence of this spectrum to measure the dark period. The total lit period came to about 14:20, leaving 9:40 minutes of darkness. The critical period for this plant was 9 hours 40 minutes. If it were given just 10 hours of dark period daily indoors, rather than 12 hours, it would still flower.
Gardeners growing outdoors who discover the critical time needed to induce flowering can use this information to get more efficient use of their indoor garden. Currently, plants grown under a 12/12 cycle spend half their time in the dark. If the plants have a critical flowering time of, for instance, 10 hours of darkness daily, they can be provided 14 rather than 12 hours of light each day so that they receive almost 17% more energy which they use to produce sugars used for more and faster growth.
MANIPULATING LIGHT OUTDOORS
Sometimes I think nature didn't get it right as far as marijuana ripening is concerned. If it were determined by human needs, the buds would be ready in late spring, so they'd be readily available in early summer, the party season. If they ripened at the best time for the farmer, it would be in high summer when the weather was warm and the sun strong. Alas, nature has chosen the fall. The harvest can be good if the weather doesn't attack first.
With a bit of effort you can manipulate the outdoor light cycle to grow and flower the plants at your convenience. I think that the best and most convenient time to harvest is during the summer rather than the fall. Buds that ripen midsummer experience much more intense light and much more UV spectrum than fall ripened buds. The intense light gives the plant energy to grow a bigger bud. The UV light increases its potency.
To force the plants to flower during the summer they need to receive the critical dark period each day. Covering the plants with a blackout cloth each day so they receive 12 hours of darkness pushes the plants into flowering mode. Decide whether you are going to restrict light at the beginning or end of each day. If you restrict light during in the morning, place the blackout cloth over the plants just before dawn; then remove it promptly at the appointed time. For instance, if the sun sets at 20:30 the curtain, which was placed on the garden at 5:00 right before dawn, is removed at 8:30. (If you know the plants' critical time period for flowering you can adjust the curtain times accordingly.)
If the plants are to be covered in the afternoon then count forward 12 hours from sunrise. If the sun rises at 6:00, the curtains should go on at 18:00. Remove the cover at the end of dusk. The cover is removed because moisture builds up on it from dew and plant transpiration. Removing the cover limits the time the plant experiences a high humidity environment. In late stages, mold prevention measures should be taken. The plants can be sprayed with Serenade biological fungicide, Zero Tolerance herbal fungicide, potassium bicarbonate or other fungicides.
In some parts of the country, such as the gulf coast and parts of southern California, the temperature never dips below 7.2C and plants can be grown all year round. In areas that are slightly cooler but never freeze, a cold frame or unheated greenhouse is all that is required to keep the plants growing. Besides temperature, the problem with growing plants outdoors during the winter is that the dark period is more than 12 hours and the plants are triggered to flower. This is a good time to grow a sativa dominant hybrid because these varieties continue to grow even after they have been triggered to flower.
Another technique is to interrupt the dark cycle with light. The light doesn't need to light the plant for long, just a few seconds. Think of it as a water spray. You want to get all the leaves "wet" with light, but once they have been sprayed they need no more light. This short interruption of the dark cycle is enough to reset the time count of uninterrupted darkness. By lighting the plants every few hours during the dark period, the plants continue to grow vegetatively, and not flower.
When the light interruption stops, the plants immediately start to flower. Plants can be started in August and planting can continue throughout the winter. To increase growth natural light can be enhanced using reflective material and electric lights. Spring starts on March 22 and on that day light and dark share equal time. At the equinox, or shortly thereafter, the dark period becomes too short to support flowering, and the plants will grow vegetatively.
To get the best possible harvest, force spring plants to flower in June. If plants are forced June 1, they will be ready in mid- to late-July. If they are forced July 1, they will ripen in mid August.
UVB LIGHT
Ultra-violet B light is a spectrum of light that is invisible to us but is visible to insects and some other organisms. In humans it causes suntan and sunburn and is implicated in the formation of eye cataracts. It is the light emitted by tanning bulbs.
UVB light also affects marijuana potency. The potency of high quality marijuana increases in direct ratio to the amount of UVB light it receives. This is very significant. In California, where the medical dispensaries operate in an unrestricted market; many dispensaries reject fall harvested outdoor material as inferior. They have found it lacks the potency of indoor crops and is a harsh smoke. However, when they were presented with marijuana grown outdoors but forced to ripen August 10, they accepted it as if it were indoor because of its high potency and lack of harshness. I think the harshness results from cool nights.
Indoors, under fluorescent and HPS lamps, gardens receive little UV-B light. Metal halides emit a bit more. However, there are ways of supplying your garden with UV-B light. Tanning lamps work, that is, lamps that tan people, because of the UV-B light they emit. Using tanning lamps will increase the THC content of the crop. Reptiles and lizards require the spectrum to stay healthy. So the spectrum usually comprises about 10 percent of their output. If you want to try tanning lamps they are available on the Internet. Use between 5-10 percent of your total wattage to these lamps. For a 1000-watt garden use 100 watts of special lighting.
Adding UV-B light to your garden will enhance your marijuana naturally, without "special formulas" and chemicals.
GREEN AND BLUE LIGHT AT NIGHT
As plants evolved for hundreds of millions of years they never actually had to deal with separation of light spectrums or unusual lighting regimes. When they received light it came from the sun in a mixture of spectrums and they could pick and choose which to use. It was only with the advent first of gas and then electric lighting that plants encountered unusual regimens and splintered spectrums.
Plants measure day length using the red light spectrum. While they use other spectrums for other purposes, they are not sensitive to them as far as flowering is concerned. They are almost totally insensitive to green light and for this reason reflect it back to us while absorbing most other spectrums.
Plants' insensitivity to green light can be used to a gardener's advantage. You know that turning the light on in the middle of the dark cycle disturbs the plants' flowering paradigm. The light, HPS, fluorescent and MH lamps all emit red light. Green fluorescent and LED lights contain no red light and will not disturb the dark period. You can go in the garden under adequate light to work, as long as it is green.
Plants use blue light for certain regulatory processes and also for photosynthesis. Chlorophyll absorbs both blue and red light and uses the light's energy to power the complex process in which water and atmospheric carbon dioxide are converted to sugar and oxygen gas. Blue light does not affect the regulation of flowering.
When blue light is turned on during the dark period, plants photosynthesize but their flowering isn't affected. This results in more growth as the plants produce more sugars. Before LED lights it was difficult to create a pure blue light. Instead, most of the time other spectrums were filtered out, which can be an inconvenient process. Try using between 20 and 40 watts of mixed blue light per 1000 watts of regular light. I have done only initial experimentation with this so test this in a limited way first. I suspect that the additional light is an efficient way of increasing total yield
Aside from red and blue light, plants also use orange light for photosynthesis. I haven't experimented with them yet, but orange LEDs might also help increase yield and probably can be lit continuously, just like the blues. More on this as the news breaks–or at least, as it fractures.
Lighting
The plants were placed outside early in the season and would have started flowering under natural light, which included a dark period of slightly less than 11 hours. To keep the plants growing vegetatively and prevent flowering, the plants were "sprayed" with light in the middle of each dark period. The brief lighting reset the plants' chemical countdown of the critical dark period. The frame was made from PVC pipe. The gardener told me that if he were to do it again at least part of the framing would be made from steel and aluminum tubing to make it more stable.
Lighting
An automated HPS light made by PAR Lighting for regulating flowering. This lamp, held over the garden using wires, oscillates back and forth, covering an area of about 2000 square feet. A timer was used to turn the lamp on for 10 minutes every 2 hours of the dark period.
Lighting
The plants, lined up neatly in rows were covered each day using white/ black plastic to limit the lighted period to only 12 hours. At this point the sun was rising at about 6 AM. The plants were covered at 6 PM and then the curtain was removed at 9:30 PM, after dusk. This limited the humidity and dew on the buds. The white part of the plastic, placed on the outside, reflected light to keep the interior cool. The opaque black interior absorbed any light that might penetrate.
Lighting
This lightweight portable carport was used as a greenhouse. The translucent top dispersed the light so there was less shading. The open sides kept air circulating during hot periods. With the threat of inclement weather clear plastic was attached using Velcro to keep the plants dry."
- Thread starter
- #97
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you guys are actually following all this info, but here is a good abstract on LEDs and UVB.
"Notes on LEDs
LED Parts
LEDs come in all shapes and sizes, but the 3mm T-1 or 5mm T-1¾ are probably the most common.
The die is an itty bitty cube of semiconductor, the composition of which determines the color of the light given off. It sits in the bottom of the die cup, which has reflective sides to reflect the light emitted by the die toward the dome end of the LED. The epoxy body is shaped to act as an inclusion lens and focus the light into a beam. The distance from the die cup to the domed end of the lens determines how tightly focused is the resulting beam of light. Some LEDs have flat or even concave ends to dispurse the light into a wide beam..."
"Notes on LEDs
LED Parts
LEDs come in all shapes and sizes, but the 3mm T-1 or 5mm T-1¾ are probably the most common.
The die is an itty bitty cube of semiconductor, the composition of which determines the color of the light given off. It sits in the bottom of the die cup, which has reflective sides to reflect the light emitted by the die toward the dome end of the LED. The epoxy body is shaped to act as an inclusion lens and focus the light into a beam. The distance from the die cup to the domed end of the lens determines how tightly focused is the resulting beam of light. Some LEDs have flat or even concave ends to dispurse the light into a wide beam..."
- Thread starter
- #98
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Hope you guys enjoy this reading (particularly new LED users that are having a hard time). Im pretty sure if we all chip in ideas we could make one of our sponsored LED's companies create the perfect Spectrum of light to grow insane portent big budding Cannabis.
I do believe LEDs are the best most effective source of lights on the market right now (I'm pretty convinced even without owning a LED unit... just because the facts are there to show), but the spectrum formula still needs a lot of tweaking to make it perfect.
I do believe LEDs are the best most effective source of lights on the market right now (I'm pretty convinced even without owning a LED unit... just because the facts are there to show), but the spectrum formula still needs a lot of tweaking to make it perfect.
- Thread starter
- #99
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Quick shot
it aint looking bad, keeping fingers crossed...
Good day everyone
it aint looking bad, keeping fingers crossed...
Good day everyone
- Thread starter
- #100
Danishoes21
Well-Known Member
Info Update.
Yesterday I exposed the garden to 9 hrs of UVB radiation but using only one bulb, today I will try the same 9 hrs with both UVB light bulbs. Still no signs of stress on any of my plants (that includes all of my veggies also).
Photoperiod 13/11 with 9 hrs of UVB 10.0 (13watts X 2), a distance of 2.6 feet from the top soil. temp. lower 20 Celsius, RH 45%.
Great Day everyone.
Yesterday I exposed the garden to 9 hrs of UVB radiation but using only one bulb, today I will try the same 9 hrs with both UVB light bulbs. Still no signs of stress on any of my plants (that includes all of my veggies also).
Photoperiod 13/11 with 9 hrs of UVB 10.0 (13watts X 2), a distance of 2.6 feet from the top soil. temp. lower 20 Celsius, RH 45%.
Great Day everyone.
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