Landrace Genetics 101

[Graytail]

I've never really understood the thing with regulars vs feminized seed. What does the male have that the female doesn't? Aren't they from the same pool of genes, whether they're F1s or F8s?

I've grown regular landrace seed. Every stand will have it's own genetics and it's own range of cultivars. 80% of them will be ordinary, 15% rejects, and maybe 5% will be standouts. You start breeding those 5% and eventually you might end up with something almost as good as the standouts - probably not. The standouts have recessive mutations that get overcome in the breeding - the dominant genes always win. We started with 80 sprouts from a good bag of Colombian and cloned them, grew them out, killed the males, killed the losers and the hermies and the ordinary ones. Within 2 years (indoor) we had whittled them down to 5 keepers. But we didn't try breeding. That would have taken forever.

Unless you're breeding, I think fems have everything that regulars have and someone else has already done the work preserving the recessive genes. I could grow unworked landraces, but I'm looking for the best weeds I can get, not nice 12% strains - I've already grown out dozens of ordinary weeds. Meh. Once I get a good one, I keep the cut. I currently have a standout Paki that has been kept (by others) for over 30 years. I have a special cut of Ace's Killer Malawi x Nevil's A5 Haze that was the best of the 3 seeds I sprouted, and I have a circa 2018 Destroyer that's the best of the different batches that I've grown over the past 10 years. They were all fems and I don't have the time or energy to have developed them myself. I typically pay ~$15 for a fem seed and run 6 or more clones if I like it, so money is no object

I just don't get the thing about regulars. It seems like some matter of principle or something?

 

[Lerugged]

I have hundreds of regulars of each strain. If not thousands. I'm just not releasing them for the reasons stated.
I probably grow out a hundred of each before finding something to work with. The standout as Graytail calls them.
Once they are worked and I'm happy that line is stable, I'll fem it.
Genetics are all there, you just can't breed the same line. You can clone it for years. I've got mothers that are 20 years old. So you can grow many times more than just the one seed... you just can't make your own seeds. I've never bred with a feminized plant. Only regulars.
So, there are people working hard and long to preserve landraces so that they do not go extinct. It does not mean they have to give them away in regular form.

 

[Graytail]

Heheh, I just checked Ace Seeds' regulars. They offer about 70 currently. I never counted them before.

 

[grayeyes]

I have hundreds of regulars of each strain. If not thousands. I'm just not releasing them for the reasons stated.
I probably grow out a hundred of each before finding something to work with. The standout as Graytail calls them.
Once they are worked and I'm happy that line is stable, I'll fem it.
Genetics are all there, you just can't breed the same line. You can clone it for years. I've got mothers that are 20 years old. So you can grow many times more than just the one seed... you just can't make your own seeds. I've never bred with a feminized plant. Only regulars.
So, there are people working hard and long to preserve landraces so that they do not go extinct. It does not mean they have to give them away in regular form.

But you are not one of them. Giving away? Saw your prices Dude. None of that going on.

To repeat, the new Arjan. I won't ask where or how you got the seeds.

 

[Zembretti]

With all due respect grayeyes I don't think Lerugged is the same as Arjan. Arjan goes to other places, takes the best seed he can find (which anyone would do visiting a landrace area), but encourages the locals to grow Indica hybrids instead, nor does he give the locals a percentage of the royalties from any future crosses. And there's the difference: Lerugged to my knowledge doesn't introduce hybrids to pollute the local genetics to destroy the genetic purity of the landrace, which I believe Arjan and his crew do deliberately. In Arjan's case that's either pure ingnorance of the bio-damage he's doing, or just just plain evil greed and he knows exactly what he's doing. Lerugged's company sells some hybrids of local genetics, but he hasn't to my knowledge deliberately destroyed any local genetics by trading Indica hybrids to the locals, or tried to wipe out the purity of any remaing seeds the area produces, and that is a big difference.

 

[Graytail]

But you are not one of them. Giving away? Saw your prices Dude. None of that going on.

To repeat, the new Arjan. I won't ask where or how you got the seeds.

*Sigh

As you say, "to repeat". You already said that, yes. And the thing is ... it sounds like an insult. To get careless every now and then is fine, but to "repeat"? Tsk tsk.

I think you have an issue with seed houses not being entirely honest. I sympathize. I was disappointed too, before I figured it out. But, sir, it's not our fault. Right? Go insult someone else. Ok?

There are plenty of honest seed vendors to be found. Ask around. We could actual point you in the right direction.

And I'm still curious about your thing with regulars. I haven't taken the time to look into the science of breeding. Can you explain what you know about it?



[Edit] I'm an old retired man, like yourself, with a lot of time on my hands, so I can explore my curiosities like reading every one of your posts, @grayeyes . Thank you for posting here, I appreciate it.

I don't see that you mention anything about having 20 years of experience growing the herb, across two different centuries, like myself and many of the others that post on 420Mag. I see that you have a single grow space under 300 watts of Mars-Hydros (good choice) and that none of the few plants you've grown are landraces. You mention a mentor that has helped you get a start, and that's a good thing, too.

There is a vast pool of knowledge available just on this one single thread if you choose to listen. Decades of real life experience in growing cannabis under wild varieties of climate and conditions all over the world.

Please understand that the blurting crap doesn't impress anyone here even a tiny little bit.

Again ...

 

[yesum]

I am flowering 5 Black African Magic plants from seed fair. All are stunted and less than a foot tall, one might be a foot tall. I also ordered the BAM from NorthCoast seeds, seed connect and Alpine seeds or Cora Genetics to be exact. I took some dead fan leaves off the plants and rolled a doob. Good high from a few tokes and repeated it a few times over several hours. Could be spacy right after toking. So pretty happy that lower fan leaves can do that. Some posters over at thcfarmer were talking about how crappy the BAM from seed connect was so this stuff is not hay and that was a concern.

The Cora seeds look different than all the rest and the Northcoast seeds are supposed to produce thin leaves according to the owner there. No idea if seed fair and seed connect are the same thing. This stuff I smoked is a good high and if smoking buds, I think could be very trippy as the fan leaves are somewhat getting me there. Who knows, I may acquire tolerance any day now.

Comedown from this high is not bad and no crash but I am feeling pretty lazy now after several sessions earlier. High is not the super clear lysergic type but has some of that trip feeling and is not too jittery. Hard to figure it all out with fan leaves but it is coming along.

 

[medmanmike]

yesum, here’s some pics of my (one) BAM on flower day 8. Seeds from Seed Fair. Topped once and heavily pruned/lst’ed for the stretch. 7.5” from the pot rim. A stem rub is interesting. Post some pics.

 

[dr.h00k]

...a picture of health Mike!... ...how long did you veg her?...I'm interested to see what she continues to do...cheerz......h00k......

 

[medmanmike]

Thanks hook. She went into a solo cup on 1/7, a 1 Gal on 1/28 and a 7 on 2/17.

 

[Chuckeye]

yesum, here’s some pics of my (one) BAM on flower day 8. Seeds from Seed Fair. Topped once and heavily pruned/lst’ed for the stretch. 7.5” from the pot rim. A stem rub is interesting. Post some pics.

Looking healthy and Tidy @medmanmike

This is one from Seed Fair at day 46 of veg, two days ago...

Three nodes, top above fourth node and first node removed otherwise has not been trimmed.

My second seed was a helmet head that I left for a day before removing. A possible stunting, she is short but healthy and growing steadily at day 35....

Cheers

 

[yesum]

Those are real healthy, me not so much. Might be me I guess, what I am doing. Yeah, no narrow leaves at all but if the high is there, who cares.

 

[medmanmike]

Looking healthy and Tidy @medmanmike

This is one from Seed Fair at day 46 of veg, two days ago...

Three nodes, top above fourth node and first node removed otherwise has not been trimmed.

My second seed was a helmet head that I left for a day before removing. A possible stunting, she is short but healthy and growing steadily at day 35....

Cheers

Yours look healthy also. And, very similar to mine. Will be interesting to see the diff in the BAM from diff seed cos.

 

[Chuckeye]

Yours look healthy also. And, very similar to mine. Will be interesting to see the diff in the BAM from diff seed cos.

So far I'm pleased !

Biggest darn leaves of any strain I've grown to date

Cheers

 

[safeman]

looking good - keep posted //// nice growing method

 

[GPCannabis]

I am flowering 5 Black African Magic plants from seed fair. All are stunted and less than a foot tall, one might be a foot tall. I also ordered the BAM from NorthCoast seeds, seed connect and Alpine seeds or Cora Genetics to be exact. I took some dead fan leaves off the plants and rolled a doob. Good high from a few tokes and repeated it a few times over several hours. Could be spacy right after toking. So pretty happy that lower fan leaves can do that. Some posters over at thcfarmer were talking about how crappy the BAM from seed connect was so this stuff is not hay and that was a concern.

The Cora seeds look different than all the rest and the Northcoast seeds are supposed to produce thin leaves according to the owner there. No idea if seed fair and seed connect are the same thing. This stuff I smoked is a good high and if smoking buds, I think could be very trippy as the fan leaves are somewhat getting me there. Who knows, I may acquire tolerance any day now.

Comedown from this high is not bad and no crash but I am feeling pretty lazy now after several sessions earlier. High is not the super clear lysergic type but has some of that trip feeling and is not too jittery. Hard to figure it all out with fan leaves but it is coming along.

BAM 1 foot tall? Have you seen my journal? I got 1 lbs from 1 plant. It got so huge no one believed me it was real.

How long did you veg it before flip?
soil?
nutes?

 

[GPCannabis]

yesum, here’s some pics of my (one) BAM on flower day 8. Seeds from Seed Fair. Topped once and heavily pruned/lst’ed for the stretch. 7.5” from the pot rim. A stem rub is interesting. Post some pics.

how long did you veg before flip?

those leaves look very familiar

 

[GPCannabis]

Looking healthy and Tidy @medmanmike

This is one from Seed Fair at day 46 of veg, two days ago...

Three nodes, top above fourth node and first node removed otherwise has not been trimmed.

My second seed was a helmet head that I left for a day before removing. A possible stunting, she is short but healthy and growing steadily at day 35....

Cheers

man, please shoot me a message if you have questions. the plants look amazing! i saw you said the leaves are huge, I had leaves bigger than a dinner plate.

I did heavy pruning, I cut the lower fan leaves leaving a large stem to ensure not removing any bud sites. Hige amounts of flower, no other plant has come within 50% of BAM in yield let Lone potency.

I have found this plant likes to be chopped at the stock and the entire plant hung upside down, not chopped up. I think the vast amount of trichs keep the plant sticky and wet. Leaving the plant as one, hanging the entire thing upside down and you will be in business in less than 10 days is my guess.

Cant wait to hear what you think

 

[yesum]

I have mine in 3/4 gal pots with fox farms and natural nutes. I flowered then revegged them so they are going crazy. No idea now how long. They refuse to grow. But the smoke is good so far. I will use bigger pots next time. I think the tap water I use causes mineral build up and problems but it is easy so no more distilled or other water. I will try to collect some rain water soon.

 

[Chuckeye]

man, please shoot me a message if you have questions. the plants look amazing! i saw you said the leaves are huge, I had leaves bigger than a dinner plate.

I did heavy pruning, I cut the lower fan leaves leaving a large stem to ensure not removing any bud sites. Hige amounts of flower, no other plant has come within 50% of BAM in yield let Lone potency.

I have found this plant likes to be chopped at the stock and the entire plant hung upside down, not chopped up. I think the vast amount of trichs keep the plant sticky and wet. Leaving the plant as one, hanging the entire thing upside down and you will be in business in less than 10 days is my guess.

Cant wait to hear what you think

@GPCannabis, I was watching your journal, thanks for that !

My plan is a little different, I top above the fourth node and remove the first.

Then I train sideways until the plant is about 24" wide.

Tonight the top knuckle is 5" high and she is about 20" wide at day 48.

This is likely the second to last training session and I will have to make a decision on how many branches to leave...

Thinking 14 ?

I usually flip to flower on day 50 but BAM #2 (helmut head) is eleven days behind so I may give her a bit more time.

She is 8" tall and 15" wide now at day 37. Will be interesting to see the difference between training/topping and left natural ! And flowering earlier !

My goal is not maximum yield but ease of trimming

I grow for myself and don't like to spend more than a 1/2 hour wet trimming and another 1/2 hour bucking the buds off the branches.

Cheers