My Low Budget Medical Grow

[closetorganic]

hey brother, if you are having trouble finding calcium nitrate you could also widen your search a little to 'calcium ammonium nitrate'-- which is what we use alot of at work- my hort constultant manager prefers CAN to CN as CAN also contains a small %of CN also.. and is great for immediate as well as delayed release of fert. imho if you are finding that nutrient isnt being taken up by the plant due to imbalanced ph levels then you should def use dol lime to neutralize acidity and apply a supplement to balance deficiency. i dont see how lime inhibits the absorption of N as it only balances PH.. and as such it makes N more available to the plant as a result(as well as other macro and micro elements). we have known this for years with pip and stonefruit applications and micro-anatomy of soil-understanding the microbial activity that actually enables nutrient uptake(hort 101).. if it wasnt that simple the multi-million dollar hort company i work for wouldnt be doing it! and would be utilizing "growing fads" instead. no need to reinvent the wheel when the solution is simple.
atb brother

Thanks Brother for the advice The CAN would help back when I first started noticeing about 2 &1/2 to 3 weeks into flowering. And for now I feel this grow can just make do til I harvest. The PH prob I seen I think is OK as my meter may be crap and dif tests at dif spots in pot read different.I stopped checking it. I set myself up for problems recycling my soil and for nitrogen I thought my nutes should've been good along with the junk in my mix. I am becoming more interested in the science of growing and hearing peoples knowledge on it along with life exps here at 420, my first and only social media forum,really makes me feel small. Thats why I dont comment too much, but I sure love reading everbodies stuff. What DocBud suggested for me I tried reasearching and do see how it can work helping my soil energy. The High Brix method I read from him sent me searching on it too and when I found info on it for the foods we eat and how farmers are shooting for higher brix on foods I really changed my thinking on gardening all around. I kinda feel it will be same fad as hydro when it got started, but high brix grows can also achieve higher quality, and when weeds legalized people will pay the most for it/ the best.
So far the organic soil grow Ive been attempting last few grows is making my bagseed strains stand out better than most stuff I have gotten from a dispensery at ridiculous prices. Watching your grow and seeing your equipment and tools and exp ya have,You for sure got a top shelf grow Alkhemist. I dont have space yet to even try, cuz I would for the most product/cash. Over in Cali they can feed dispenseries and I live in a medical state, Its a dream for me to provide quality meds to em for others some day.
An order for seeds was confirmed today 2 fem Jack Herer 2 reg THC Bomb and 2 reg sweetgod , I hope things go good

 

[Doc Bud]

Thanks Brother for the advice The CAN would help back when I first started noticeing about 2 &1/2 to 3 weeks into flowering. And for now I feel this grow can just make do til I harvest. The PH prob I seen I think is OK as my meter may be crap and dif tests at dif spots in pot read different.I stopped checking it. I set myself up for problems recycling my soil and for nitrogen I thought my nutes should've been good along with the junk in my mix. I am becoming more interested in the science of growing and hearing peoples knowledge on it along with life exps here at 420, my first and only social media forum,really makes me feel small. Thats why I dont comment too much, but I sure love reading everbodies stuff. What DocBud suggested for me I tried reasearching and do see how it can work helping my soil energy. The High Brix method I read from him sent me searching on it too and when I found info on it for the foods we eat and how farmers are shooting for higher brix on foods I really changed my thinking on gardening all around. I kinda feel it will be same fad as hydro when it got started, but high brix grows can also achieve higher quality, and when weeds legalized people will pay the most for it/ the best.
So far the organic soil grow Ive been attempting last few grows is making my bagseed strains stand out better than most stuff I have gotten from a dispensery at ridiculous prices. Watching your grow and seeing your equipment and tools and exp ya have,You for sure got a top shelf grow Alkhemist. I dont have space yet to even try, cuz I would for the most product/cash. Over in Cali they can feed dispenseries and I live in a medical state, Its a dream for me to provide quality meds to em for others some day.
An order for seeds was confirmed today 2 fem Jack Herer 2 reg THC Bomb and 2 reg sweetgod , I hope things go good

NO!!!

Ammonical nitrogen, or NH4, is a cationic form of nitrogen that gets "captured" by the soil, so it doesn't leech out like Nitrate does. It will not help your CEC problems......but it will make them worse!!!!

It's not at all the same as Calcium Nitrate, which has a strong Cation, Ca++ and Nitrate, NO3.

As for pH.....that's usually not a problem unless a person has added way too much organic material to the mix....which is usually the case. And no amount of pH up or down is going to solve that problem. The soil is much too powerful a buffer to be overcome with a few drops of Phosphoric acid or Potassium Hydroxide. Also, Ammonical nitrogen lower soil pH!!! You're probably already at like a pH 6....which is too low. Next time you make soil, run it by me first and I can help you avoid these problems.

As for dolomite, don't use it unless you're going to throw this batch of soil out and never use it again. The high magnesium levels in dolomite compete with calcium. The calcium occupies the same "niche" in the soil that nitrogen usually does....so it does inhibit nitrogen uptake, basically causing it to release into the air.

A far, far better solution is to amend the soil with proper minerals at the beginning and not worry about this stuff.

In the meantime, calcium nitrate will help you. If you want to mineralize let me know and I'll try to steer you in the right direction.

There are many methods/traditions out there. Our food supply has never been in worse shape and pesticide use is at an all-time high. That's really all you need to know about commercial agriculture. I'm running back to nature.

 

[Alkhemist]

NO!!!

Ammonical nitrogen, or NH4, is a cationic form of nitrogen that gets "captured" by the soil, so it doesn't leech out like Nitrate does. It will not help your CEC problems......but it will make them worse!!!!

It's not at all the same as Calcium Nitrate, which has a strong Cation, Ca++ and Nitrate, NO3.

As for pH.....that's usually not a problem unless a person has added way too much organic material to the mix....which is usually the case. And no amount of pH up or down is going to solve that problem. The soil is much too powerful a buffer to be overcome with a few drops of Phosphoric acid or Potassium Hydroxide. Also, Ammonical nitrogen lower soil pH!!! You're probably already at like a pH 6....which is too low. Next time you make soil, run it by me first and I can help you avoid these problems.

As for dolomite, don't use it unless you're going to throw this batch of soil out and never use it again. The high magnesium levels in dolomite compete with calcium. The calcium occupies the same "niche" in the soil that nitrogen usually does....so it does inhibit nitrogen uptake, basically causing it to release into the air.

A far, far better solution is to amend the soil with proper minerals at the beginning and not worry about this stuff.

In the meantime, calcium nitrate will help you. If you want to mineralize let me know and I'll try to steer you in the right direction.

There are many methods/traditions out there. Our food supply has never been in worse shape and pesticide use is at an all-time high. That's really all you need to know about commercial agriculture. I'm running back to nature.

howdy brother, i feel ya bro- we all want to help in any way we can by supplying good quality MMJ.
if organics is the way you want to go then CAN and other similar ferts wont be for you as they are synthetic-OBVIOUSLY... BUT if you wished to correct issues within your soil as they occur then its good to know what can work and what wont... whether it be organic, conventional or what-ever type of growing. it really isnt necessary to complicate things

correct, the OBVIOUS solution is prevention! using a well balanced, nutritive soil to begin with.. base saturation of your soil should be an obvious issue to be mindful of, once these conditions are met then any need to use ferts or nutrients drops dramatically. then none of this would occur or any issues arise that resemble nutrient deficiency etc.. your plants needs should be well catered for!

commercial agriculture and horticulture has come a LONG way since the days of strip growing where soils werent being replenished or revitalized between crops, as well as the types of sprays being used.. ive seen the transition from old school 'dont give a fuck' approaches to present day 'give a fuck' approaches. but at the end of the day it is quite simple- larger hort and agricultural companies cant afford bad publicity with their produce, ESPECIALLY EXPORT where the standards and requirements are VERY VERY STRICT!!! so are now employing much safer, 'cleaner' methods of growing.. not organic but not what they used to be, thats for certain- in my experience anyways. this is of course open to abuse like most things and many large companies still dont care about sustainability, renewability etc

lets keep one thing clear, plants DONT CARE where their nutrients come from, they take nitrogen from any source.. whether it be calcium ammonium nitrate or leprechaun urine, after the microbes within the soil convert the N containing compound to N2 they simply wont care. ('nitrogen fixation' shows an interesting relationship between Nitrogen and ammonia and how it is necessary in nature and synthetically)... HOWEVER like many ferts and nutes you must be aware of HOW MUCH TO USE and WHEN... use this sparingly and as with D-lime limit its use to ONCE. that should be more than sufficient.
the biggest aspect to organics or chem ferts has definitely got to be water solubility. in water it becomes part of the soil, the ground and the surface water, thus it becomes available to plants. at a glance the main differences between organic and synthetic are the way they are taken up by the plant. Organic ferts for the most part are in the inorganic form requiring biological and chemical action to make them available to the plant- which leads on to decomposition(BIOLOGICAL) and seperation(CHEMICAL)... which produces a fairly stable form of nutrient for the plant. this obviously supports the grow commune within the soil too.
synthetic ferts and nutes rely more on the solubility to become 'plant available' where so much depends on temperature, moisture and incorporation with the soil. used in balance and correctly they wont detract from soil at all but should compliment it.
CAN(calcium ammonium nitrate) provides a RAPID SHOT of available nitrogen which initiates rapid growth BUT too much of this can result in high carbohydrate levels and low proteins.. which can invariably lead to other issues and the plants ability to take up other nutrients and trace elements.. hence the need to observe limits when looking to apply any chemical or synthetic nutrient(although most are made in a balance to compliment each other). CAN wont harm any of your soil community what-so-ever if USED CORRECTLY. to prove my point: "Most of the nitrogen taken up by plants is from the soil in the forms of NO3–, although in acid environments such as boreal forests where nitrification is less likely to occur, ammonium NH4+ is more likely to be the dominating source of nitrogen. Amino acids and proteins can only be built from NH4+ so NO3– must be reduced"("teaming with microbes pg 49) so, YES plants have an amazing ability to adapt- as does the human body.



there is this myth that synthetic nutes will kill soil life, this is certainly not the case and has been studied to death. what DOES cause the soil to die is not adding organic material/matter to the soil. and this is what i am saying, use this with organic matter/soil as a compliment, when needed.. and it will do your plants and soil no harm at all, if used correctly(i cannot emphasize that enough) but this is something any grower should be aware of at some stage. the company i work for, as do MANY others in this area, rely on 3 tests to ascertain when the fruit is ready to harvest.. one of these is BRIX testing, as well as pressure testing and testing fruit sugar levels. our produce is of the highest quality- it HAS TO BE as 90% of it is exported, if our methods of growing and harvesting etc doesnt meet strict criteria they wont be accepted-SIMPLE(the same can be said for growing cannabis). it doesnt make any sense to utilize ferts and nutrients that are going to create an inferior fruit or product.. or perpetuate an image of being unfriendly to the environment, this only detracts from the whole point and looses the company millions of dollars, so WHY use methods which arent going to add to sustainability and being able to perpetuate HEALTHY growing conditions that last years(decades)?? im not talking out of a hole in my arse dude, its quite fucking simple LOL

the point made about dolomite lime with calcium inhibiting Nitrogen is tenuous at best IMHO. the main issue would be that it is a HIGH ratio of calcium/magnesium and as such creates excessive amounts of magnesium in your soil?! as being high in magnesium(generally one can expect a ratio of 2:1 calcium/lime, ideally 7:1(sandy soils) or 10:1(clay dominant soils)) one can expect toxicity issues, as with any mineral..
the antagonism between calcium and magnesium isnt as easy to discern at first glance- there are many studies to show this and largely comes down to the different solubilities of magnesium carbonate (MgCO3) and calcium carbonate (CaCO3) in the dolomite.
Magnesium deficiency symptoms may be associated with an antagonistic relationship between magnesium ions (Mg2+) and other cations such as hydrogen (H+), ammonium (NH4 +), calcium (Ca2+), potassium (K+), aluminum (Al3+), or sodium (Na+). The competition of magnesium with other cations for uptake ranges. These cations can compete with magnesium for binding sites on soil colloids, increasing the likelihood that magnesium will be leeched from soils.-so this can become a non issue albeit tenuous to begin with. i dont see any evidence to show that adding dolomite lime to your soil in CORRECT doses will inhibit Nitrogen uptake at all. an added advantage of using CAN is that the ammonium supresses magnesium! and with calcium nitrate mangesium levels are increased!! this just goes to show that a combination of dolomite lime and calcium ammonium nitrate can work VERY well together
the main issue here is USING DOLOMITE LIME CORRECTLY, as an aside it is also a good carrier for phosphates allowing a steady availability to your plants. calcitic lime(calcium carbonate) is a good alt as it is very low in magnesium if magnesium is indeed an issue(and often a calcium/mag ratio of 6:1)- if one is going to recycle the soil to use in continuous growing.. magnesium levels will be something to consider as will other minerals, hence a soil test would be ideal. not disimilar to the human body where some nutrients aid or hinder the absorption of others... if magnesium deficiencies are showing in your plant then it stands to reason that there is a magnesium deficiency in your soil also(OR def due to high acidity or an imbalance in another nutrient resulting in signs of def.), if you need to address ph issues then simply LIMIT your use of a dolomite lime application to ONCE- soil testing is really the only way to be SURE of the base saturation of your soil and how much you can limit yourself to lime applications, also with regards to your soils cal mag levels... so dolomite lime is ideal if you know that your soils calcium levels are low.. if you know that your mag levels are low and as a result know that your ph levels are also too acidic(boron is a good synergist) BUT that is NOT to say there arent other options! adding gypsum to your soil will bring ph down... adding soybean meal, corn meal and other grain meals will add N to your soil.. i could go on for pages about organic alts and ammendments.. the literature available is so abundant and as mentioned starting with a well built soil ammended with good organic matter etc will see you right and you shouldnt even see issues like this arise.. but let me be clear- synthetic nutrients used with organics can do wonders and wont harm your soil(incl. soil community) or your plants AT ALL if used correctly.. if anything a good combination will only ADD to your plants and soil-

EVERYTHING IN BALANCE​

 

[KingJohnC]

nice photographs

 

[closetorganic]

nice photographs

Thanks for stopping to look KingJohnC , Still trying to learn on getting better ones with the fam cam, I like seeing others pics that show those real close up shots, Im not sure if mine can do it.

 

[closetorganic]

Im not sure how to comment back to DocBud and Alkhemist. 2 Awesome People. I understand both ideas working towards goal of the best possible. I think its too late on this current grow now Yesterday going to water I saw 2 plants looking rough enough for me ,out of meds, to pull out and cut. And didnt take pics Duh! A2 completely cut all fans and leaf with no trics trimmed to hang each branch seperately B1 was the first plant in this grow showing problems but all the lower popcorn branches were green and I heard of people harvesting some so I put her back after cutting all the upper half SO that will probably stress her alot But maybe those little ones can get bigger and more mature. I dont have mag thing yet to look at trics for color. These plants only flowered for 6 weeks so far, my last grow all cut a 6 weeks for similar issue and a couple more, mites and grower(me) abuses and these hanging now look better by far. I think it has to do with GLR veg light witch is known to shorten flowering a bit I read and believe. Heres some pics

I am going to stop letting so many branches grow next time

Bad pic they dont look that yellow or light. On the B2n3 the upper bud hairs are whiter than the lower bud hairs and are slowly starting from main topper leaves to lightening looking same as sister B1 did just a few weeks later. A1 isnt showing those symptoms like A2 did and the hairs are mostly colored She doesnt show much finishing look on her leaves either. So They All will get mostly plain water to finish.
6 clones cut monday from the Bs sister clone in veg. They are in root riot plugs in a dome. each one has 2 trimmed nodes with 45 underneath bottom one and scratched in between coated in ROOTECH gel in plug. Next grow 21 days from cutting to flower but I do change mind alot so we'll see, If they even survive?

This is the Bs sister clone same mix mostly plain water, It seems the mix carried her well in veg with GLR light 12 on 5 off 2 on 5 off under T5, The leaves are dark green and could be too much N . I dont even want to show sister to the A's cause it shows the mother abuse to the extreme. Hopefully I can start new strain if it goes good and she can go outside somewhere. I mite keep fav B strain going to compare against new 3 strains not all at once though.If they show

 

[closetorganic]

This is how I start my drying

Im counting on 2 in there but 3 after trimming again when dried for going in jar cure would be nice.I would guess on that in a week? Oh the dreams then reality can hit fluffy seedy or just not flowered enough. Im not too worried yet, I good hopes.

 

[closetorganic]

Here at 47 days from switch and Im getting heat from boss on smell. They look good now I will have to pull them all in the next couple days, mostly for house stinking heavy I have a week to air out the house. One B plant I noticed a banana starting on a bud and she came out . Of course I had to look over everyone else and was unable to see anything. This is not the same strain I think I light leaked hermy last grow. This is one to think about why. Heres some pics

Centerline of nail just after white hair, It was harder for me to find out from under hps.

This is a shot of of a bud off the Mother clone to my B strain I think just before cutting at 6 weeks of flower on last grow.

The B is better to me I can see the difference in the crystals between them in this grow by the A calyxes are resined but light on sugar leaves none on fans of toppers, where the Bs are growing more glands heavy on sugars and coating fan stems and going out on them sum close to toppers. That looks cool I only can imagine the sight under a scope of the reasin glands. Under the veg light, my A Mom also, the sister clone of current As, looks terrible, If I repot her and show her love I feel I could renew her but I have stressed her bigtime I had even took a clone of her and they both are showing preflowers under my glr 12 on 5 off 2 on 5 off light sched. I am really fixing to 86 them. I will get pics of em before and show even tho I am feeling embarassed n guilty of this work

 

[Lester Freeman]

Lovely looking buds mate! + reps to ya

 

[b.real]

LMAO im getting that lingering faint smell around the place too..i think its time to sacrafice early soon..poor diesel. i think ones close to done anyway..i will be 7 weeks into bloom on monday from preflower on a 9.5 suggested EXCITED haha

oh wow i did the math..we are on same schedule basically haha like 6.5 into bloom but yours is looking more mature..looks great dude hahaha

 

[closetorganic]

If your checking up Im down to 2 left in closet now, A1 and B3. Im gonna keep light off tonight and let them sit for 2 days before I cut them. The bot half of B1 sat dark 2 days and is getting chopped tonight, The plant that SHowed banana sat for 2 days also,Funny thing next day from those pics and seeing it I couldnt find it. Still 2nd day couldnt either, I should of marked that branch cuz I think it was just a small sugar that was yellow and sitting out of hps and overnite it greened some. Shes in the box now and looks like she mite hit minimum average a plant I harvest OK.

 

[closetorganic]

I half to focus on next grow. 4 of 6 clones just might make it, They were maybe too long and thin and leaf wieght bent them over, It kinda looks like LST . 3 are barely suporting top and the 4th has 2 nodes that are looking good while top one is pointing down Its been8 days since cut on 3/11. Some use of leaf nutes is noticed on a few and today I misted with a weak solution of bloom Why? IDK just followed the thought fast.

This A Mom and kid got no Support Attention Paid

The A strain is out of commision now but I have possible fem seeds of her from last grow light leak herming. No seeds detected this grow so far and that posible chance,but I will argue that thought now, was on B strain B2. Here is my veg spot now

 

[closetorganic]

Today I still have 2 left growing A1 left and B3 right

Heres B2 trimmed, the one I thought was herming so I pulled.I must get a mag thing for this and just the right time to harvest. Second trim was last night after hanging in the box for 5 days SHe was sticky and alot of sugarleaf were still moist on the bigger (Lol) buds. I left them on plate in box like that like about 8 hours and they were crispy this morn and when weighed showed one possible when the moisture dries.A Was surprised actually from the looks

Heres A2 first to be cut down with half of B1, Shes feeling best so far

Heres a closer look to see why Im not so excited

Ok looks like mostly hairs and leaves , I am my worst critic in life, these meds do the deed but I know that I lost control of this grow and have fluffy leafy immature buds,and whatever else . The good thing is they smoke smooth and the effects are already helping me at getting through my days before their cure.Lol again my cures go as long as the bud lasts. That B2 smelled green after crisping and is probly gonna need most cure , I havent tried her yet. I see the most and best coming from the closet still that are now just 4 days short on 8 weeks of flower I belive. Im hopeing they are denser, A1 looks like this grows allstar I hope she gives me 2.

 

[b.real]

fluffy buds aint bad man..nice pull. how long did they flower for?

 

[closetorganic]

Heres something that excites me. All six clones see the light and are rising now at 11 days from cutting them. I havent looked for roots yet but am assuming they're see able. This is my first attempt starting clones in this dome. Ive used same rootech gel and plugs just in ghetto DIY domes that did work. I just upgraded and like it.

I should trans plant this weekend. and I pause because I need to still figure out the mix on this grow. I cant get fresh or my Brix Kit plans will be halted and that is my goal by the end of April to have the mix cooking cuz the SPONSER CAME THROUGH IN 7 DAYS. Not a big order or price but the first time ordering and delivered IM PUMPED. 6 seeds 2 fem black skull Jack Herer 2 reg Thc bomb and 2 BC reg sweetgod. Stumped on plans of action for them.

my priority list
1. DocBuds kit and supplies needed,20#EWC, promixhp, bins to cook mix, better sprayer, smartpots
2. new 400hps bulb
3. mag scope thing
4. 600w ballast vented hood fan and newbulb
5. new air filter and fan

The last 2 carrying most the finacial weight but are greatly needed. Where theres a will theres a way wish me luck peeps.

 

[closetorganic]

fluffy buds aint bad man..nice pull. how long did they flower for?

Thanks man and I know its not so bad I just have had better harvests, you know not every time but this is not my best on these strains. New ones rolled in but will sit tight for now. That fish plate was pulled out at 47 days of 12/12 the redish plate was only 44 days. They do work for me and Im happy I didnt deal with major issues that leave us with nothing! I still drool over your grow you got, Its hard decideing to cut or not to cut.Thanks again Brother from across the lake or river depending on ur locale.

 

[closetorganic]

The only stuff growing now is my veg spot that I changed to 16/8 lights because on the mother I had noticed a preflower growing it under my way of GLR with 12 on 5 off 2 on 5 off for at least 9 weeks and was thinking this strain might need more light and also Im starting to think that might not be the best for a mom? Then she got too dry and showed leaves hanging and I watered her but it seems that stress/ shock in an already hormone charged plant was too much and she really showed pistils pushing at branch tips. So after giving the longer light, the clones and that mom are doing better. I didnt transplant clones yet but noticed mites leaving spots on oldest clone leaves. I looked at the mom plant and couldnt find any with naked eye, another reminder on getting a scope. I sprayed neem oil mixture that was left from me using on my last grow the first couple weeks in Feb. On the clones top and botoms of leafs and then sprayed the mom. They had to be survivng on her and the clones I cut were all lower branches. The Mom must have been healthy enuf to not be overtaken by them. Im thinking for next grow to use The base mix I made but to ammend it different this time. I wont add homemade compost or anything that wouldnt be used in a brix grow. I think I will cut it with more perlite since I dont have enough for 6 3 gal potsmaybe even use hydroton for fill too although I like the idea as a mulch deal on surface better. I have a small bag of it now for 3 years that was bought for a DWC never tryd. Right now the calcium carbonate and azomite I need to get. I plan it also used for my family gardening this year,

updated pics later

 

[Alkhemist]

hey there closet!!

wow, your surviving ladies are looking VERY nice indeed! awesome stuff
that trimmed bud looks nice brother as long as it does the trick dude- all GUD but i know what you mean when you say that we can be our own harshest critics too loL but i think your ladies look just BEAUTIFUL and i'd certainly be very happy with that yield
all the best with your mite issue bro, i hope your neem mix does the trick. two spotted mite can be a blimmin persistent issue sometimes. i dont know if you have ever thought of trying predator mites but ive used different kinds in the past with great success and work well as a preventative for peace of mind too :] ive tried the "Phytoseiulus persimilis" -predatory mite... it cost me 30bux for a thousand and i just sprinkled onto soil, branches, around trunk and left some in the original container at base of plant and they went hard also " Amblyseius cucumeris — Predatory mite" works well with two spotted mite and thrips as well, which is what they primarily live on- thrips. im not sure how readily available predator mites are for you in your part of the world closet but you MAY be able to find a fair priced local supplier in your area.. they can be a nice natural method of safeguarding your ladies as a preventative measure not to mention its just darn cool to recruit natural predator mites to protect your plants

great to see your cuttings recovering dude- i hope they take for ya :] and your lady in the grow area looks so healthy, i feel good things coming from her for ya brother! loL

++reps all the way ma man! keep up the awesome work

 

[mcloadie]

Mind if I sub closie, I'll catch up soon, welcome to 420............we keep it growin....LOL!

 

[closetorganic]

For sure mcloadie thanks for checking this out. Just harvested last grow and these 6 clones are for next round. I wanted to start them April first but they are small. BUt Im seeing seedlings with a week veg only looking nice flowering by bmeat , I think I will still try and see if shorter vegged clones blooming in my closet is better then vegging them longer.

Brother Alkhemist thanks on that thought. I like the natural idea on mite control, It seems it would fit into me recycling my soil for longer ongoing benifits. Im gonna have to check out your hedge row tonight.