Quix's Corner - Puddle-o-Green - NL & Bag Seed - Indoor Soil Experiment

[Jango]

AHA! Found it! Well first things first my boss is gonna be billing you for 15 min of my work day cause thats how long it took me to find! In the end the HID light yielded 91g at a total of 77 days and at .217g/Kwh while the LED yeilded only 36g at 91 days and .36g/Kwh. But there are a couple things i would take away from this video. First and foremost the video is 3 years old and we all know how fast technology progresses, it takes all of 3 months for computers to start getting old and outdated lol so im sure the lights have come a loooong way even since then. You'll also notice that as OMM said again and i agree that i think in the veg stage you can see the LED outpacing the HID. 3rd just in my opinion though the LED did yield a lot less it still did better in over all g/Kwh and i think the person in the video let the LED plant go on way to long as there doesnt seem to be any difference in the plant in the last 15 days or so which would give it an even better number from a power standpoint. So to sum it up again i think LED's are definitely going to get better and better and are definitely a good viable option given a persons setup and restraints.

YouTube - LED Marijuana Grow

 

[Aaron Quix]

Hey Quix

So now you're a big eye ball...gives me the creeps!

What you have there is an old 90w UFO. Mmmmick and I have been using them for years. That thing is a veg light! It doesn't flower very well, but you got your money's worth, because it can really veg. Adds color the grow too! Congrats mine was a 175 bucks back in the day! It will really help with your heat issues.

Ah crap! I REALLY should have done more research before I bought that damn thing, It was totally an impulse buy. I'm not usually sold that easily on something I'm not sure of. I thinks I'll return it, and go find a 200w 27k CFL for flower, I really want to flip the lights by next weekend, and if this thing wont do well for flower, then it just wont do. Hell I veg just fine with the 125 64K CFL I have now. Last thing I need now is help vegging! Thanks for the input, I think I've made my decision!

Oh dude it was totally me, no doubt about it! lol



Hey buddy! I actually did quite a LOT of research myself on LED's when i was getting ready to start getting all of my stuff together. Ultimately cost is what prevented me at the time from getting one. But from all the research i did i definitely found a lot of things out. First it seemed to me that there definitely IS a difference in quality from one to the next and that not all LED's are made equal. To me it seems like its only a matter of time before led's become the standard grow light. Like all new technology it takes time to perfect and it seems like you can compare led's to computers, 20 years ago they were huge and slow and now they are tiny and super fast lol. So i definitely think they are on their way and i do think that there are a lot of good quality ones out there right now. I mean whats not to like about them, more power and duration for less watts and heat! Cant beat that combo. The hardest part seems to be sorting through all the garbage advertising from the companies and the purests who couldnt ever fathom growing without HID lighting and have nothing but hate for something they havent tried. I did actually find an excellent video, much like the vape one, that was a time progression of the same strain plants, one under led and one under hps. I do remember that the hps did perform better and faster but thats not to say that the led didnt yield good results itself. I'll have to see if i can find it cause its hard to find videos that arent from the LED makers themselves showing how amazing they are lol. I dont myself have any experience with them for flowering but as OMM said they do work great for veg, even my brothers little crappy ebay one worked great for veg! Best way to do it is just like you are, best way to find things out is to try them yourself! I'll definitely be interested in the results!

Hey there Jango you're absolutely right my man, about everything. I got sold man, like an old lady trying to buy tires, and gets sold the whole car!!
I rarely make impulsive buys like that, I just couldn't resist the upgrade aspect of it.
Thing is, I know the guy will let me take it back, so I'm not too mad or anything, just bummed I cant afford the heat of a big hps. I think I've made up my mind about returning it though, so sorry I dont think we'll get to see the results of how well it works for flower(or doesnt) Thanks for all your input on the matter bro!!

 

[Aaron Quix]

AHA! Found it! Well first things first my boss is gonna be billing you for 15 min of my work day cause thats how long it took me to find! In the end the HID light yielded 91g at a total of 77 days and at .217g/Kwh while the LED yeilded only 36g at 91 days and .36g/Kwh. But there are a couple things i would take away from this video. First and foremost the video is 3 years old and we all know how fast technology progresses, it takes all of 3 months for computers to start getting old and outdated lol so im sure the lights have come a loooong way even since then. You'll also notice that as OMM said again and i agree that i think in the veg stage you can see the LED outpacing the HID. 3rd just in my opinion though the LED did yield a lot less it still did better in over all g/Kwh and i think the person in the video let the LED plant go on way to long as there doesnt seem to be any difference in the plant in the last 15 days or so which would give it an even better number from a power standpoint. So to sum it up again i think LED's are definitely going to get better and better and are definitely a good viable option given a persons setup and restraints.

YouTube - LED Marijuana Grow

Hey thats great man thanks for finding that for me! I agree, the technology is getting better all the time, but without knowing exacly what I have, the only way to know how well it works is to run it. But I'm just not comfortable with trying it, and if it dissappoints, then its my fault. I'd rather return it now, because I'd feel like a real dousche if I flowered with it, put 1400 hours on it, THEN decided I didn't like it and returned it. Dude at the hydro shop is cool, but I dont want to take advantage of his generosity. He even offered to let me pay half of the 150 upfront, and the other half next week. I gave him 130, and he said I could pay him the 20 "whenever". THATS cool of him. So the least I could do is admit my buyer's remorse and take the unit back while it's still new. I'ts not like he sold me something I didn't want, knowing I didnt want it. Obviously every business needs and wants to make money, but I know he wouldnt make much on the unit at the price he gave it to me for, and its new tech to him too. I think he really just wanted to see how well it would work for me.

Anyway, my mind's made up. I'll take it back this weekend, and work on getting something else in th mean time

Thanks again for all your time and input brother!

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi Quix.

I would take it back too.....if you aren't going to veg with it....like you said a CFL does just fine for that.
I go into my hydro store with the idea of just getting what I came for but,,,,,,there is always something I find that I want. That's why I don't go there very often! .

Ya think he would take mine??????

 

[Jango]

Hey thats great man thanks for finding that for me! I agree, the technology is getting better all the time, but without knowing exacly what I have, the only way to know how well it works is to run it. But I'm just not comfortable with trying it, and if it dissappoints, then its my fault. I'd rather return it now, because I'd feel like a real dousche if I flowered with it, put 1400 hours on it, THEN decided I didn't like it and returned it. Dude at the hydro shop is cool, but I dont want to take advantage of his generosity. He even offered to let me pay half of the 150 upfront, and the other half next week. I gave him 130, and he said I could pay him the 20 "whenever". THATS cool of him. So the least I could do is admit my buyer's remorse and take the unit back while it's still new. I'ts not like he sold me something I didn't want, knowing I didnt want it. Obviously every business needs and wants to make money, but I know he wouldnt make much on the unit at the price he gave it to me for, and its new tech to him too. I think he really just wanted to see how well it would work for me.

Anyway, my mind's made up. I'll take it back this weekend, and work on getting something else in th mean time

Thanks again for all your time and input brother!

No problem buddy I figure ill get one someday when its proven technology and the damn price tag comes down! Not to mention i need to find a hydro guy like yours!! Id like to be able to pay for stuff "whenever"!! Actually i currently run a business on ebay and a website and im looking into getting some wholesale accounts from hydrofarm and possibly some other places to open a new store of my own for hydro supplies! So thats in the works too, just arent enough hours in the day for everything!

Hi Quix.

I would take it back too.....if you aren't going to veg with it....like you said a CFL does just fine for that.
I go into my hydro store with the idea of just getting what I came for but,,,,,,there is always something I find that I want. That's why I don't go there very often! .

Ya think he would take mine??????

Hahahaha thats for sure OMM, there are two place that are kryptonite for my wallet! well i guess 3, home depots tool section, lowes tool section, and the hydro store!! When i leave my face always looks like this cause i get to the car and all my money is gone!!

 

[OldMedMan]

Hahahaha thats for sure OMM, there are two place that are kryptonite for my wallet! well i guess 3, home depots tool section, lowes tool section, and the hydro store!! When i leave my face always looks like this cause i get to the car and all my money is gone!!

Hey Jango !

I'll add one more...My favorite Seed Bank!

 

[Aaron Quix]

Wheeeeew doggies HPS runs hot!! I'm having one hell of a week trying to get this thing dialed in for 12/12.....I bought a 150w hps today, I had to see if the heat would be signifigant enough to worry me.....It is.....What to do I'm tring to stay positive, while getting discouraged. Its pretty hard to vent my 2x2 space, but I'm pretty damned determined to try....If I can do it with 450+ watts of CFL burning in there, I can do this....the question is how....Think I'll vape one and ponder it! Maybe I'll even throw a little earwax hash in it, that should be interesting!!!

 

[Xlr8]

Wheeeeew doggies HPS runs hot!! I'm having one hell of a week trying to get this thing dialed in for 12/12.....I bought a 150w hps today, I had to see if the heat would be signifigant enough to worry me.....It is.....What to do I'm tring to stay positive, while getting discouraged. Its pretty hard to vent my 2x2 space, but I'm pretty damned determined to try....If I can do it with 450+ watts of CFL burning in there, I can do this....the question is how....Think I'll vape one and ponder it! Maybe I'll even throw a little earwax hash in it, that should be interesting!!!

Hey Quix - sorry I got a couple of days behind. Looks like you have since moved on, but everyone tells me those UFO's are mostly good for maintaining a mom. I'm sure they veg fine like OMM said, too, but flowering not ideal. There are some LED panels that seem to perform okay for flowering, but they are pretty expensive.

What kind of reflector do you have for your new bulb? HPS bulbs run really hot. I've never used a 150w, but 400's run plenty hot. Everyone tells me 600's and 1000's are much hotter yet.

Here's what I think. In your space, you're doomed without a cooled reflector of some sort if you go HPS. I had a pretty good ventilation plan for the 400w in my new tent, but still struggled with keeping temps under 85f. What if you made a homemade "cooltube"? It's basically ducting on either end of a glass tube that holds your bulb/socket inside of it. Do a google search for "DIY cooltube". I've seen people make them out of a hurricane lamp glass tube and some ducting. You'd need to be able to vent the air out of the space, but if you can do that you might be able to even do 400w in there.

Your space is about the size of my Mothership in some respects, and I had a 400w in there. I've been knee deep in ventilation research and personal experience lately - let me know if I can help somehow. If you can, find a way to buy or build an air-cooled reflector and go 400w. 400w can be manageable for your space with ventilation.

my friend - you'll get this worked out. I like your new avatar a lot. Much better than the eye, too. (It was cool, mesmerizing, but kinda creeeeepy - OMM was right.)

 

[Macgyverup]

Oh dude it was totally me, no doubt about it! lol



Hey buddy! I actually did quite a LOT of research myself on LED's when i was getting ready to start getting all of my stuff together. Ultimately cost is what prevented me at the time from getting one. But from all the research i did i definitely found a lot of things out. First it seemed to me that there definitely IS a difference in quality from one to the next and that not all LED's are made equal. To me it seems like its only a matter of time before led's become the standard grow light. Like all new technology it takes time to perfect and it seems like you can compare led's to computers, 20 years ago they were huge and slow and now they are tiny and super fast lol. So i definitely think they are on their way and i do think that there are a lot of good quality ones out there right now. I mean whats not to like about them, more power and duration for less watts and heat! Cant beat that combo. The hardest part seems to be sorting through all the garbage advertising from the companies and the purests who couldnt ever fathom growing without HID lighting and have nothing but hate for something they havent tried. I did actually find an excellent video, much like the vape one, that was a time progression of the same strain plants, one under led and one under hps. I do remember that the hps did perform better and faster but thats not to say that the led didnt yield good results itself. I'll have to see if i can find it cause its hard to find videos that arent from the LED makers themselves showing how amazing they are lol. I dont myself have any experience with them for flowering but as OMM said they do work great for veg, even my brothers little crappy ebay one worked great for veg! Best way to do it is just like you are, best way to find things out is to try them yourself! I'll definitely be interested in the results!

Excellent write up, Jango!

 

[OldMedMan]

Hey Quix.

Sorry, but xlr8 is right, those HPS bulbs are hot. Do you have an AC that you could pipe in there some how? How did you cool the CFLs, they put out heat too. Just trying to think of some way to cool things off for you. Trying to remember your set up. Don't give up Buddy!

 

[Aaron Quix]

Hey Quix - sorry I got a couple of days behind. Looks like you have since moved on, but everyone tells me those UFO's are mostly good for maintaining a mom. I'm sure they veg fine like OMM said, too, but flowering not ideal. There are some LED panels that seem to perform okay for flowering, but they are pretty expensive.

What kind of reflector do you have for your new bulb? HPS bulbs run really hot. I've never used a 150w, but 400's run plenty hot. Everyone tells me 600's and 1000's are much hotter yet.

Here's what I think. In your space, you're doomed without a cooled reflector of some sort if you go HPS. I had a pretty good ventilation plan for the 400w in my new tent, but still struggled with keeping temps under 85f. What if you made a homemade "cooltube"? It's basically ducting on either end of a glass tube that holds your bulb/socket inside of it. Do a google search for "DIY cooltube". I've seen people make them out of a hurricane lamp glass tube and some ducting. You'd need to be able to vent the air out of the space, but if you can do that you might be able to even do 400w in there.

Your space is about the size of my Mothership in some respects, and I had a 400w in there. I've been knee deep in ventilation research and personal experience lately - let me know if I can help somehow. If you can, find a way to buy or build an air-cooled reflector and go 400w. 400w can be manageable for your space with ventilation.

my friend - you'll get this worked out. I like your new avatar a lot. Much better than the eye, too. (It was cool, mesmerizing, but kinda creeeeepy - OMM was right.)

Hey X thanks for the kind words, and encouragement and help
The UFO will go back in a couple of days, its not what I needed, and I'm kicking myself for allowing myself to give into the urge. Lol, it happens to the best of us once in a while I suppose. But at least I got to see one in action, and now I know a little more about them. As it stands, and as you and Jango have pointed out, any GOOD LED that would suit my needs would be way out of my price range....Lesson learned!

The HPS is a SunSystem fixture, from Sunlight Supply, with internal ballast(hate that part, but no one makes a 150w hps with external ballast that I can find...)
It boasts 16,000 lumens, and a 2x2 footprint. Now, I've been running it for 24 hours, and at first I was quite worried. While the 2x2 was closed up, it got up to 99 degrees F, FUUUUUUU@&!!! I only ran it like that for about 20 minutes to see how hot it would get. BUT, and a BIG but, with the 2x2 opened up, the closet door open, and the bedroom window A.C. unit set to 70, with the power saving option on, the 2x2 only got to 81 as of noon today, and 84 by the time I got home this evening. And the 84 was only because I accidentally left the bedroom door open when I left back to work at noon. SO....I think 81 is completely do-able. I ran temps higher than that on a regular basis last run. I dont mind running the ac like that either because I like my bedroom cool(I can see you shivering over ther OMM)

Now, I REALLY like the idea of that cool tube you are talking about, and I WILL try it on my next grow. For now I'm settled on the 150, because I'm really over the stress of trying too many things, and not knowing if they'll work. But I have a feeling that cool tube WILL work, and I'm actually really excited to try it.
Thanks again for the idea, and for the kind words brother!!

Hey Quix.

Sorry, but xlr8 is right, those HPS bulbs are hot. Do you have an AC that you could pipe in there some how? How did you cool the CFLs, they put out heat too. Just trying to think of some way to cool things off for you. Trying to remember your set up. Don't give up Buddy!

Well, I kind of went on a rant there while responding to X, but to answer your question about the ac, yes I definitely do, and couldnt do what I'm doing without it thats for sure!!

Re your other question, I do have a 100 cfm fan pulling hot air off the top of the space, and a slightly smaller fan at the bottom corner, to help draw cool air in. But its nowhere near enough to cool that damn HPS. I'll be trying to put together Mid-grow-update" Kinda like half time for a football game, full of pictures of the beginning, and of lately, the clones, and all the things that have changed. You'll be able to see the setup at that time, but it's very small. 2x2 about 6' high.
Anyway, thank you for the encouragement my friend, I'll never give up trust me on that one!!

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi Quix.

A little rant helps the soul. After it's over, I feel much better!

Now we're talking, if 81 degrees is possible, you will do good. The cool tube should work wonders too. Glad you have a tall space..the girls will need it with that hps.

Being new to all this is totally confusing. Wish we could see systems operating in person, it would really help us to make good decisions.I was lucky enough to see a very similar set up to mine and it really help. Talk is one thing seeing it is another thing altogether. Good luck Bud.

 

[Aaron Quix]

Well I really wanted to do this big, elaborate mid-grow update, and I still do, I'm just finding it hard to dedicate the time I feel it deserves. But I will do a cut version, so here it goes.

First I'd like to say thank you to all of the members who've stopped in, dropped in, popped in and otherwise found themselves here, helping and encouraging, living loving and lauging with me. (Hey 420, can we get a larger THANK YOU smiley!??)

Heres the rundown for those who are new, or old, or just dont remember.

What strain is it?--Northern Lights(not #5)

Is it Indica, Sativa or Hybrid? What percentages?--Hybrid, not sure of%
Is it in Veg or Flower stage?--Flower/COLOR]
If in Veg... For how long?--Vegged for 9 weeks
If in Flower stage... For how long?--3 days
Indoor or outdoor?--Indoor
Soil or Hydro?--Soil
If soil... what is in your mix?--FoxFarms Ocean Forrest and 50%Perlite for the mothers/Straight FFOF for the clones
If soil... What size pot?Mothers are in 3 Gal./Clones are in little Qt. size containers
Size of light?--Mothers are under 150w HPS, will add CFLs as I am able to dissapate the heat/Clones are under 125w 64K CFL, with 4 40w CFL spirals as supplimental
Is it aircooled?--Kinda, 100CFM fan mounted to underside of plywood roof of cab, and one smaller fan at bottom to draw cool air in--Will be adding more fans this weekend
Temp of Room/cab?--73 during lights off, 84 TOPS with lights on
RH of Room/cab?--22 lowest/60 highest/AVG 40%
PH of media or res?--Eh, not sure, I should probably get around to that huh?
Any Pests ?--Nope, had black gnats last run, but that was the MG ha ha
How often are you watering?--Same as every other grower, when they get dry, duh...
Type and strength of ferts used?--FoxFarms GrowBig, Superthrive, GreatWhite(Mycorhizae, trichoderma and other benneficials) and Molasses for veg/ All of the above for flower, except I switch to FF Tiger Bloom for flower--All within the recommended dosages, I use the light feeding for all of FF nutes(2Tsp./Gallon)
What size is the grow room?--2X2 For the 2 mothers, and a small 36x14x24 for the clones!!!

I should show you the space...

Now do you see why I've dubbed it "Quix's Corner"??!!

And with that I should give a little back ground of the way things have gone.

I planned to start 2 mothers, and practice topping, LSTing, and cloning. Well, I did all those things. What I DIDN'T expect, is to succeed at any of those things. As it stands, I have 2 great mothers, And 4 great clones. The mothers have been topped, and LSTed. At week 5 I took 7 clones from one mother, and succeeded in rooting all 7 using this DIY Bubble cloner...

The 5th and 6th clones were slow getting going, but are happily growing at a friends house with 4 other larger plants. I gave him the seeds, from the same stash as mine.

...I tossed the 7th clone, as she was weak and sickly, although I'm sure she could have been saved.

Ive been through several lights, including a UFO LED, CFLs ,and now the HPS. Ive battled heat, gnats, space, and poor ventalation. I've used Miracle Grow soil and nutrients, and now FoxFarms, And to honest, without trying to float my own boat, I've had 100% success for a grow and a half now. With what I have to work with, I suppose I couldnt ask for much better. One day I'll have the space, and there'll be no stopping me. If one can grow under my conditions, one can grow ANYWHERE!!

I flipped the switch 3 days ago, so now the real fun begins, we should be seeing some good pistil development in about 2 weeks, so stay tuned.....

 

[Xlr8]

Great update, Quix.

You really have done a great job with limited space. I have to commend you for working with some challenging space requirements and making the most from it. You are off to a good start and have proven your thumb nice and greeeeeeen. Glad to see your new HPS light is working okay and not overheating things too bad.

 

[Aaron Quix]

Thanks X, I try! Im really looking forward to the day when I have REAL space, believe me, IT'S ON!!

 

[Xlr8]

I feel you brother. My grow was contained to a roughly 2'x2'x3'high space for a long-ass time. I'm super stoked to have a little more room with the tent in the new room addition. You'll get it there - if my broken down painful carcus with the ultra-light wallet can find a way to make it happen, you can too! You're so far ahead of where I was, though, because you participate here so much more than I did when I first started growing. I've learned so much more since I ramped back up my participation in the community here. Well, that and practice makes perfect (not that I've figured out what perfect is yet!!).

 

[Aaron Quix]

Hell, I'm about to the point where I'd consider getting rid of a dresser to get a tent going in my bedroom!...Only problem with that would be the noise iof the fans. It'll have to be a new place to live, and we wont move until we can find a decent 4 bedroom, or 3 bed with a basement...(OOOOOH Shivers @ the thought of a basement!!!) As the kids get bigger, and the great dane/boxer/staff. terrier mix gets bigger too, our 2bd townhome gets smaller.

I dont know how you ever did it with 3' head height though, I'll have to go back and read some of your old journals someday....Man I wish my laundry would get done!!

 

[Xlr8]

Hell, I'm about to the point where I'd consider getting rid of a dresser to get a tent going in my bedroom!...Only problem with that would be the noise iof the fans. It'll have to be a new place to live, and we wont move until we can find a decent 4 bedroom, or 3 bed with a basement...(OOOOOH Shivers @ the thought of a basement!!!) As the kids get bigger, and the great dane/boxer/staff. terrier mix gets bigger too, our 2bd townhome gets smaller.

I dont know how you ever did it with 3' head height though, I'll have to go back and read some of your old journals someday....Man I wish my laundry would get done!!

I should have said 3' of growing space. From the base of the plant to the light. I was able to grow close enough to the glass that I could get within just a few inches. Wasn't too bad if I flowered early enough in the grow without a lot of veg. time. Oh, and I bent and moved branches around like crazy!

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi Quix.

Now, that is what I call a good summary. The pictures really made me see what your facing as far as heat goes. I actually like your grow closet. Well done for your space. That HPS is going to make a big difference for you. Now we just got to cool it a bit more, once that is solved, you will have a fine grow space.

I didn't realized you were vegging an army of replacements.

When you get a new place someday.....be sure to check out any basement for any kind of moisture. No use buying a problem.

Got to get it just a little cooler in there to be perfect. WTG!

 

[Macgyverup]

Helo Quix! Nice job on the update!!! You included more info than most poster's do for their entire jrnl!