RK's Radical - Soil - White Widow - CFL - 12-1 Lighting - Grow Journal - 2016

[SweeetExide]

As soon as you harvest, the product is as potent as it will get. However the degradation of chemicals can still occur, but increase ? No way. The curing is a finishing technique to allow the buds to dry evenly from inside out. When you jar the product you seal the humidity of the jar. This brings the moisture from inside the bud to equal the outside of the bud, drying it evenly. Also the bacteria breakdown chlorophyll reducing the harshness of the product.

Butter away when dry as far as I know

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[Regnad Kcin]

OK, so yeah, the harvest has begun in earnest. Here is the 8 plant crop before the first major chop:

For those that haven't been with me through this "bonsai" grow, here is the pulled back view of this MacGyvered grow environment:

 

[Radogast]

OK Dude...so here we go. I'm dreaming of all the Canabutter I'll be making from the trim, and all the various styles of Bhang I'll be testing out in the very near future!

Curiously enough, I've been wondering if there is a difference in the potency of canabutter depending on whether or not one uses cured bud/sugar leaf trim or not? Most of what I've read about curing bud revolves around the idea of how it makes for a better smoke. Some have suggested that it increases potency, but I'm not seeing science to support that contention.

The taste and smell of a smoke are subjective ideas and I have my own anecdotal evidence to support the idea that age matters in this area. But as far as potency?????????

Can someone point us at the science of curing that would support or deny increased potency?


......................>>>>>>>>>>...................



Lacking any supporting science, I'm tempted to go straight ahead making my canabutter and canacoco oil straight from the freshly harvested trim.

Magical butter machine suggests decarboxylating (heat treating) before making oils and butter.

The heat doesn't increase the potency, but it 'activates' the THC by he same heat mediated transformation that would otherwise occur during smoking.

If you do edibles with non-decarboxylated bud, there is a possibility , especially with cookies, that the baking process will activate or even overcook the THC. Most food recipes will not have a high enough heat for a long enough time, so it is best to treat your canabis before making butter.


... but to answer your question, curing is not required before butter making, but heat treatment is required and part of any good cannabutter recipe.


This would be my go to thread to discuss edibles The Cannabis Kitchen - Cooking With Cannabis

 

[Radogast]

For those that haven't been with me through this "bonsai" grow, here is the pulled back view of this MacGyvered grow environment:

Thanks for the wide angle view

 

[1smokeaway]

I am way late to this party and will look forward to others by you. Superb looking bud thus far and I'
d say especially being CFL grow.

a few questions:

1. Is your netting just there to hold up the branches or did you do some tucking and weaving ?
2. From the pics, latest close ups and the 3 bud trial it looks like the tips of leaves have Nute burn ? Would that be correct or just the normal dying cycle of the leaves?
3. If yes and I apologies if I missed but did you notice and of the Nutes taste in your trial buds?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Magical butter machine suggests decarboxylating (heat treating) before making oils and butter.

... but to answer your question, curing is not required before butter making, but heat treatment is required and part of any good cannabutter recipe.

Thanks Radogast. I've been aware of the decarbing process before making the butter, but I didn't know if aged trim would change the flavor. Got a pound of butter in process right now from the first oz of trim. We'll see how it turns out.

I've got a separate recipe and process for making canabutter from just the fan leaves but that requires a heck of a lot more plant material and a special process of pre-soaking them for a day or so in cold water to leach out some of the "greeness" of the leaves before drying, decarbing, and making the butter. It takes about 6 oz dry leaves to make a pound of butter. Not bad for stuff that most people just toss in the trash. It's a bit more of a chore than when working with just sugar leaf/trim, but it does make some kickass buddah, for making my evening bhang.

This would be my go to thread to discuss edibles The Cannabis Kitchen - Cooking With Cannabis

Uh oh...another great link that I'll end up getting lost in. Thanks!

 

[Regnad Kcin]

I am way late to this party and will look forward to others by you. Superb looking bud thus far and I'
d say especially being CFL grow.

a few questions:

1. Is your netting just there to hold up the branches or did you do some tucking and weaving ?
2. From the pics, latest close ups and the 3 bud trial it looks like the tips of leaves have Nute burn ? Would that be correct or just the normal dying cycle of the leaves?
3. If yes and I apologies if I missed but did you notice and of the Nutes taste in your trial buds?

Hey 1-smoke....welcome to this my first grow. Better late than never, and thanks for the compliment. Growing under CFLs is a bit more labor intensive than using the big hot boys, or the wierd "blurple" science lab diodes, but there are significant advantages. Everyone has to find their own style. I had to do this on the cheap since I won't be at this location much longer and will wait to invest in this hobby at my next location. I think CFLs, T-5's and T-12s all have a significant place in an integral grow, especially at the very beginning through mid to late veg.

Yes the netting was used to tuck and train the plants to grow short and broad. I had way too many plants for the amount of space, so I had to train them to be small and broad. Scrogging combined with gentle LST shortened the depth of the canopy and allowed me to get my lights extra close to the tallest buds. The entire grow would have benefited by at least another week in veg, to spread out more, but this is how we learn.

As far as the leaf tip burn, that's a mystery. It didn't start to show up until I pulled back on the nutes the same time I took my first early harvest. Strangely, as you can see in the pix below, of the 8 plants in this grow, the front right one was the only one that didn't turn brown at all. It was looking great when I chopped it this morning. If I had more time and space, I'd have found a way to let it flower even longer, but AKs needed the space. (I'll be updating the AK-47 journal tomorrow with pix of the ladies in their new home.

Here is the crop just before harvest...notice the lonely green one front right:

And a bit closer:

I defoliated heavily during flowering and I believe that allowed me to get excellent small bud development near the bottom of some of the plants. Here are a couple plants showing decent small buds right at the bottom:

I'm sure it can be debated that if I chopped these bottom buds off earlier in flower, that the energy would be directed more toward the larger tops. Then again, I'll bet we could also debate what color blue the sky was yesterday, even while we were all there standing together looking at it! Some of these are nice firm little fellas and will smoke just fine. Some will end up with the trim and be directed toward some very potent cannabutter.

Most of the nutes I put into the soil during veg were completely organic. No real nute taste, though even the earliest buds I harvested are only two weeks into the cure. Even this early, the smell is divine, and not all that harsh. White Widow doesn't have a very large flavor profile. It was developed for potency, not so much the smoking enjoyment.

 

[zgrower]

RK awesome grow my friend your girls look lovely and thx for checking out my grow to I'm subbed here oh and I posted the pics you asked for on my journal


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[Regnad Kcin]

Hey Z! Thanks for the compliment. I'll flyby and see your images. BTW, if you put a link to your journal in your signature you make it easy for people to find it as you post on other people's journals.

I think there is a tutorial somewhere on the site telling you how to create a signature.

Happy Day!

 

[zgrower]

What week of flower are your girls in I just looked at your girls once more and they really are gorgeous in terms of grows how much experience do u have oh and how do you manage your heat


CFL Grow

CFL Grow

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Hi Z!

I did a final harvest last week at day 70 of flower. I could have gone longer, but I needed the space for the 3 AK47s that were outgrowing their veg space, plus I have to put the house on the market in May so I have to short things a bit. I harvested in three batches about a week apart, so I got some early, some mid, and some late. The last harvest is still drying so I don't know how strong it is, but the second batch is definitively more potent than the first.

I've been a gardener since I was a child. However this is the first time I've ever tried to cultivate MJ, so my experience with this herb is zero.

Heat hasn't really been a problem. The CFLs do put out some warmth, but not a lot. I have a fan to move air around in the space, but lights on temps rarely exceeded 78 degrees, while during lights out it dropps to the low 60's this time of year.

The buds are quite airy, not exactly what I anticipated, but then again I've never held a White Widow bud before so I don't know what the buds are usually like. I'll have a modest overall harvest from this first attempt. Likely just under a pound from the 8 plants. My first two harvests (about 1/3 of the crop) yielded 4 oz of bud for traditional uses. The extras for the entire grow yielded 2.5 oz of trim and popcorn that I'll be using to make butter. I'll get a final tally of weight later this week after I put the drying buds into jars for the cure.

I did have a minor problem with drying the last harvest and had to McGyver a method to keep the humidity up in the drying space. I don't humidify my living space during winter so outside the grow room the ambient RH in the house is usually in the 30's

I trimmed and hung all the bud and used a spare bedroom closet to hang the stuff so I didn't have to trek all the way downstairs to the grow area (higher RH) with all the hangers and probably shedding bud all the way down.

I looked around the house and found an old vaporizer for medical purposes that essentially creates a hot mist. I dragged up the standalone charcoal air scrubber from downstairs (the AKs don't stink yet), and set it on the floor next to the vaporizer outside the closet door, and put both on a timer that cycles them on and off every hour for about 35 minutes. This keeps the humidity within the 45-55 RH range that is optimal for drying.

Before I got the RH under control​

And my humidity control:
​

 

[Radogast]

With your watering, environmental, and plant shaping skills, your harvest is limitted by your lights.
Genetics play a part, but I don't expect airy buds with AK47 or white widow strains. In this case, I believe your airy buds are a symptom of weak light.

I'm sure you've heard this before, but ...
You would probably get 2x the yield with HPS and 3-4x the yield with high wattage LEDs.
CFLs can only do so much.

I veg under 216W of CFL. They veg slower than some other lights, but it doesn't really matter as long as I keep the flower room full.
For flower time, big lights matters.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

With your watering, environmental, and plant shaping skills, your harvest is limitted by your lights.

Yup, that sounds about right, and not far from my thoughts when putting together this ad hoc grow environment knowing at the start that I only had about 5 months or so to grow before the "evidence" has to be all gone. CFL's seemed to be the most cost effective solution.

I'm thankful for the yield I received. The process taught me a lot.

Mostly I'm grateful for the information I've gained from the community here on 420 who freely contribute the benefit of their experience. I'm not altogether certain that there isn't a niche population in the community who enjoy the CFL experience. I think there is room for this grow style, but it likely requires a different set of customs, and is probably best suited for those growing small crops, exclusively for personal consumption.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Postgame wrap-up​

As I suspected months ago, the root development on the eight plants of this grow was pretty pathetic. They could have easily vegged another couple weeks or more before inducing flowering. I was a bit surprised that during the flowering period, these eight plants would only take 2 gallons of fluids every other day, with about a 10% runout. Unpacking the pots after the harvest was a real eye-opener. At first glance, one might think that the root structure doesn't look terribly under-established.

Then, after gently removing most of the loose soil leaving only the root structure behind, one can begin to see just how small the network of roots actually is.

Interestingly, the densest part of the root ball retains the shape and size of the original Solo cup in which germination and early veg. took place.

Finally, when one pulls back and sees the anemic root system compared to the size of the pot it was grown in, one can see the magnitude of the error.

My second grow (3-AK47s) has already benefited from this lesson. I've just switched them over to flower and those three plants are taking in the same 2 gallons of fluids every other day that this grow used for 8 plants. I'm certain that's due to a much more developed root system gained by changes I made over there at the beginning....but I digress.....

Final tally.​

I'm grateful to all those that chimed in during this grow. I've learned a ton, and while I'll likely not be growing for a while after the AKs are harvested, I'll be back into this sometime in the next year.

 

[Radogast]

Great job thinking about your roots and their effect on harvest. That is the kind of curiosity that leads you to being a better and better gardener, helping plants grow to their full potential.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Thanks Rado! I wish I wasn't time limited in this space, or I'd veg. the AK's I've just started to flower for another couple weeks. They've already got 70 days in from sprout. This WW grow was switched to flower at 46 days from sprout.

Then again, if I hadn't been time limited in this space, I would have been flowering under either LED or HID. Nevertheless, I'm determined to get my current 3 AKs, to outproduce these 8 WW plants in the time I have remaining, though I'd still consider it a success if I only match the 9 oz. yield of this grow.

Perhaps a bit ambitious under CFL, but I love a challenge.

 

[Orlando Scout]

Hope all is well in your world.

Thanks for sharing this grow with us.

Please head over to the 420 Strain Reviews forum and post your smoke report there too.

I’m moving this to Completed Journals now.

Have you started a new grow you would like to share with us?

If so, please feel free to start a new journal here: Journals in Progress

You can use the Report feature found at the bottom left of every post and we'll move it for you right away.

Sending you lots of love and positive energy.