Seed bank quality

[Jaz]

My growing goes back to the 80's and back then seeds were a nuisance for buyers, you purchase by weight, seeds weigh down the product and most threw them away or accidentally smoked them, lol.

As to what strain they were? Your guess is as good as mine.

I used to pick out the heaviest, largest, darkest seeds, which were often speckled with black spots or stripes and had no problems growing, indoors, outdoors; the plants were rearing to go. One time I remember soaking a seed in cotton wool and overnight the tap root was at least 10mm - flabbergasted!

Fast forward to today and you'll hard pressed to find seeds in a purchase so I've tried a few seed banks. Some of the prices knock me over and I get it, when it comes to specialist strains, the labour that goes into it, overheads, etc.

Each time I purchase however, I'm rather disappointed when I get the seeds. Fair enough I'm a bit of a tightarse and get the cheaper strains but I don't think I've ever got a heavy, large, dark, speckled seed. Mostly they're the smaller size and the greyish brown 'plain Jane' seeds.

Needless to say, I've encountered dud seeds that don't sprout, very slow to sprout, very slow to get a 5mm tap root, a few stunted seedlings and of course some that've grown successfully alongside the slow pokes.

Is it just me or do some of you look at the seeds you receive and think, 'are these guys taking the piss?'

I'm going to try yet again another seed bank and see how I go. I do realise they're banks and stock what they purchase from breeders so YMMV if you bought better or more expensive strains.

Is it a case of 'get what you pay for' and lower priced seeds are the piddly grey ones?

I think it's a total rort to even sell the small whiter seeds... and I have got one of those.

I do realise small seeds can still germinate and grow but the big chunky dark ones in my experience were the better performers.

j

 

[TorturedSoul]

Seed size varies by strain. With many (most?) strains today being polyhybrids, they might vary according to which one you pull out of the packet. I have... somewhere... a copy of a picture of a US dime, for scale, along with seeds from two different strains. The difference between the two is extreme. A seed from one set could cover the "LIBE" and half of the "R" in the word "LIBERTY," while a seed from the other set will barely even cover one letter. They were weighed at 15 seeds per gram, and 800 seeds per gram, respectively.

Immature seeds... the pistillate flower simply got pollinated too close to harvest. Depending on the mechanism/process, I assume that ranges from somewhat rare to quite rare, but not completely unheard of. I'll contact the vendor, maybe, if I get one in a pack, but I'll not expect a refund or reship; the person harvesting the seeds is not carefully inspecting each one of 30 seeds - they're dealing with something like one to ten thousand, per plant, with multiple plants.

Seeds might get cracked/crushed during shipment. A lot rarer now with, often, better / more robust packaging than in the past when seeds might have been placed into a small paper/glassine envelope - or tiny Ziploc type baggie - and then into the larger envelope, and mailed like a letter. If I buy something, the transaction is not complete until the merchandise reaches my property. I've only had two orders completely disappear, and one in which the merchandise was replaced with "the dreaded form letter." All three orders were re-sent without a hassle.

I've been doing it, off and on, for about as long as you have. My older brother thought I was a moron for buying seeds via an advertisement in High Times. Turned out to be money well spent . RiP, Nevil Schoenmakers.

I've had great success at germinating cannabis seeds soon after they arrived. Less so as time passed (poor storage on my part). I've had good success when the breeder's text stated that the strain was a landrace that had a lower germination rate. I've had... fair to poor success after the seeds were here for a few years and had endured multiple cycles of near-freezing temperatures in Winter and 90°F to 100°F temperatures in Summer . I've not noticed that cheaper seeds are any less likely to germinate than more expensive ones - $150+/pack Sensi Seeds and $10.50/pack KC Brains were comparable in that regard.

Seed prices? I don't know what the going rate for a gram of bud is in your town, but it's more than even a top-shelf seed costs here. In other words... seeds are cheap. We're not growing tomatoes - and one plant can easily produce thousands of cuttings (or, alternatively, thousands of seeds). I'd rather spend more to support the creator of a strain than spend less to buy a knockoff, copy, result of a pollen-chucker growing out the original and selfing the plants, et cetera. That's in regards to commercial seeds that I've bought. I've been given seeds by others, and appreciate the gifts, regardless of which entity produced them, and I see nothing wrong with someone doing whatever they want with something they've bought, for personal use.

 

[Chuckeye]

I also remember the days of Large brown striped seeds !

Not any more, sigh...

Small and green, no stripes.

Disappointing but, they have all germinated and produced well !

My experience is limited to two seed sellers and eight strains.

My go to supplier currently is True North Seed Bank, I always wait for a sale (which they hold regularly) and @ $12.50 a seed that is minor compared to all the other associated costs

Cheers

 

[Jaz]

I also remember the days of Large brown striped seeds !

Not any more, sigh...

Small and green, no stripes.

Ah, so it's not just me.

Disappointing but they have all germinated and produced well !

That's all that really matters.

j

 

[CelestialNurseries]

I've had great success at germinating cannabis seeds soon after they arrived. Less so as time passed (poor storage on my part). I've had good success when the breeder's text stated that the strain was a landrace that had a lower germination rate. I've had... fair to poor success after the seeds were here for a few years and had endured multiple cycles of near-freezing temperatures in Winter and 90°F to 100°F temperatures in Summer . I've not noticed that cheaper seeds are any less likely to germinate than more expensive ones - $150+/pack Sensi Seeds and $10.50/pack KC Brains were comparable in that regard.

I was reading a great study about storage...with 12% moisture content (the highest % tested)..and after 3 months of storage...there was a 0% germination when stored at ambient temp...63% when stored at 15C..and 70% when stored at -20C...Basically very dry and cold beans can be stored for decades.

 

[CelestialNurseries]

Needless to say, I've encountered dud seeds that don't sprout, very slow to sprout, very slow to get a 5mm tap root, a few stunted seedlings and of course some that've grown successfully alongside the slow pokes.

Just a tip...I would stick to new drops and stay away from BOGO or clearance items...also find a trusted breeder...you can get good really top notch beans for 10 bucks a pop.

 

[Jaz]

Just a tip...I would stick to new drops and stay away from BOGOF or clearance items...also find a trusted breeder...you can get good really top notch beans for 10 bucks a pop.

I agree, after one bad batch I received, I contacted the supplier, they were happy that my germination and storage methods (fridge) were legit, I sent photos of their dud seeds on wet tissue, some closed, some opened with a tiny sprout but didn't germinate further. They gave me some additional seeds with my next order to compensate.

I mentioned my suspicion about their 'bonus' seeds. They assured me that their bonuses were not old stock, if I can believe that.

A clearance sale however is just that, clearing out old stock to make way for new.

j

 

[TorturedSoul]

I was reading a great study about storage...with 12% moisture content (the highest % tested)..and after 3 months of storage...there was a 0% germination when stored at ambient temp...63% when stored at 15C..and 70% when stored at -20C...Basically very dry and cold beans can be stored for decades.

I don't actually have a refrigerator.

 

[garybo]

Just a tip...I would stick to new drops and stay away from BOGO or clearance items...also find a trusted breeder...you can get good really top notch beans for 10 bucks a pop.

Do breeders sell to the public? A $10.00 seed is cheap if the seed develops into a mature plant.

 

[CelestialNurseries]

I don't actually have a refrigerator.

The handle checks out!!

 

[CelestialNurseries]

Do breeders sell to the public? A $10.00 seed is cheap if the seed develops into a mature plant.

Of course they do...that's how they make a living.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Most do; if not directly, then through an entity they are associated with. There was a guy here in the past, who posted in the Landrace 101 thread, who sold through Ace Seeds' website (for example).

Some non-domestic breeders might not sell to people residing in certain countries, though. Last time I checked, which has been a while, Sensi Seeds stated on its website that it did not ship (sell) to people in the USA. Another thing to consider is that a breeder may or may not offer "stealth" shipping, but most 3rd party vendors probably do.

 

[Jaz]

They were weighed at 15 seeds per gram and 800 seeds per gram, respectively.

Ah, so they send you the smallest seeds to save on postage.



j

 

[cbdhemp808]

Hey @Jaz, try the breeder, Humboldt Seed Company. They don't sell directly, but there are online shops that sell their many varieties, including some of the 420 Magazine sponsors. Humboldt's seed packs have the harvest/packing date printed on them.

happy growing!

 

[Delps8]

If I buy something, the transaction is not complete until the merchandise reaches my property. I've only had two orders completely disappear, and one in which the merchandise was replaced with "the dreaded form letter." All three orders were re-sent without a hassle.

That was my understanding, too - if they don't get it here, it's on them. Unfortunately, that's not how it worked out when I placed an order for about $100 with one of the sponsors here. The package never showed up and they argued that since I hadn't paid $20 for "delivery insurance", they were under no obligation to resend the seeds. The Canada Post tracking number indicated that it had been shipped from Toronto but never made it past Chicago. So I was out my $100+ and behind the power curve in terms of getting my grow started.

Their decision surprised me but it also told me the value that I represent to them as a customer - the cost of resending the seeds would be, what $30 including shipping. Their decision was to not incur that cost. Had I been lying and ripping them off, they might still have made a profit - they had my $100 let's call it. If I were lying, they could assume the worst case, that I would never buy from them again but that's only a "perhaps" so they might not make money on me (two sets of seeds and the cost of shipping twice).

On the other hand, by not fulfilling the order, they pretty much made it impossible to ever get another order from me. As I see it, their business model is such that they're more interested in making one sale vs taking the opportunity to build a repeat customer. That is, to some extent, a reflection of the realities of the seed buyer marketplace but it's inarguably a result of their overall opinion about people who buy their products.

Prior to placing that order, I've ordered from a few companies in Europe in years past and it's been frustrating to wait for up to a month to get the seeds and I decided to look for a company that was located within the US.

Earlier this year, I decided to order from North Atlantic Seed Company. The fact that they're in CONUS was one of the main(e) reasons. Sure, enough, everything ran like clockwork — I placed an order on Friday PM, it was processed on Monday, and I got the package a few days later. I can't ask for much more than that, can I?

Their seed selection is excellent and their web site is well designed and very responsive. The seeds are doing fine so far - three out of three germinated and they are now six days above ground and looking good.

Thanks to the company in the great white North, I've now started using North Atlantic Seed Company for seeds and I'll keep using them because they are a vendor who delivers.

 

[EZCalyx]

I've been getting into smaller breeders who do their own genetics. I think many of the large breeders and seed distributors have gone the way of Wal Mart and cheeped out to maximize profit. I highly highly recommend checking out Green Luster Phenos dot com. The medicinal quality of the strains is off the charts. Justin, the head Geneticist, is a genius at what he does. Each seed is dark brown with dark tiger stripes. The seeds are packaged in a light resistant glass jar with desiccant to keep them dry. I have never dealt with this level of professional packaging on seeds. I think many of the brand name strains have been diluted and companies are profiting off of the names and not the quality of the product.

 

[Jaz]

I've been getting into smaller breeders who do their own genetics.

They don't always ship outside Europe and the USA though.

One seed bank I know stopped accepting credit card payments, when cash was sent in an envelope (seriously, it's one of the methods they promoted) and apparently didn't arrive, they claimed no responsibility since there was no tracking/registered mail - sigh!
That particular company also sent me dubious seeds in the past, small, whitish, died on the wet tissue, etc. Never again from that mob, hopefully others do the same and talk with their feet... but there's one born every minute.

j

 

[EZCalyx]

They don't always ship outside Europe and the USA though.

One seed bank I know stopped accepting credit card payments, when cash was sent in an envelope (seriously, it's one of the methods they promoted) and apparently didn't arrive, they claimed no responsibility since there was no tracking/registered mail - sigh!
That particular company also sent me dubious seeds in the past, small, whitish, died on the wet tissue, etc. Never again from that mob, hopefully others do the same and talk with their feet... but there's one born every minute.

j

I recently had an order from Herbies seized by US customs. This is why I have chosen to go with US genetics. I think due to international laws its probably safest to order within your own country. I do acknowledge desperate times call for desperate measures however.

 

[SmokingWings]

I think due to international laws its probably safest to order within your own country.

Yes, best to order from within the home country to avoid the border crossing issues.

It is not international law but rather 'national laws'. Anything that crosses a border is subject inspection by that country's import laws and not those of somewhere else.

I do not like going to Canada but not because of what is legal or illegal there. It is because of what the US considers to be legal the minute I cross the border coming back.

 

[EZCalyx]

Split hairs much? So when you travel internationally and attempt to smuggle you worry about laws, got it.