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Diamond series is my preference. It really is a great unit.
Stevehman's LED Buyer's Guide
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invi
New Member
Thanks for all the info here, this thread is priceless.
I couldn't find anything but guesses regarding minimum canopy distance of the lights - anyone has any info on how close they can be put to the plants?
Can i get much better penetration with several low watt units instead of a few higher ones? Was thinking of getting 2x300 or 4-5x100 from diamond series - if i can get closer with the 100ws.
Or maybe individual LED power matters only, and each unit needs the same distance?
I couldn't find anything but guesses regarding minimum canopy distance of the lights - anyone has any info on how close they can be put to the plants?
Can i get much better penetration with several low watt units instead of a few higher ones? Was thinking of getting 2x300 or 4-5x100 from diamond series - if i can get closer with the 100ws.
Or maybe individual LED power matters only, and each unit needs the same distance?
CaliKind72
New Member
i found some great pricing here
Amazon: DS 200 Diamond LED Grow Light 3w Leds with Optical Lens
Amazon: Used and New: DS 300 Watt Diamond LED Grow Light 3w Leds with Optical Lens
Amazon: DS 200 Diamond LED Grow Light 3w Leds with Optical Lens
Amazon: Used and New: DS 300 Watt Diamond LED Grow Light 3w Leds with Optical Lens
Much of this really depends on your style of grow. If you're going to grow 3 foot tall + big girls, LED's will have trouble with that much penetration from top to bottom.
I have had my light at 15" to maybe 18-19" and gotten good results. I have also gone closer and gotten bleaching from the light, so I had to back it off a bit.
I am trying to build my own LED light system, and am curious about the best spectrum ratio for the VEG room. I am looking at going around 600 w with 3w bulbs. I have seen alot of videos that only seem to use red with some minimal blue, but I have read that the more blue the better for the VEG
invi
New Member
Thanks Bassman!
What wattage lamp(s) did you use - or that did not matter? I plan to decide on my next grow style based on what LEDs allow.
Was thinking of a SOG with each plant topped once after the 4th node - as far as i heard this should result in 4 main cola / plant (Uncle Ben's Topping Technique).
@DCollect:
These are the wavelengths on the diamond unit - this works nice as i see from journals
760nm, 740nm, 720nm, 660nm, 630nm, 615nm-480nm, 460nm, 440nm, 415nm, 380nm
and this is what they say about ratio: red - blue is 9:1, and red (660) - infrared (730) ratio is 1.2:1.
This is all i found in the specs. Once ill have a unit at hand ill try to count each LED type if possible.
What wattage lamp(s) did you use - or that did not matter? I plan to decide on my next grow style based on what LEDs allow.
Was thinking of a SOG with each plant topped once after the 4th node - as far as i heard this should result in 4 main cola / plant (Uncle Ben's Topping Technique).
@DCollect:
These are the wavelengths on the diamond unit - this works nice as i see from journals
760nm, 740nm, 720nm, 660nm, 630nm, 615nm-480nm, 460nm, 440nm, 415nm, 380nm
and this is what they say about ratio: red - blue is 9:1, and red (660) - infrared (730) ratio is 1.2:1.
This is all i found in the specs. Once ill have a unit at hand ill try to count each LED type if possible.
I used 600w in my grows. I had a unit take a dump on me and when I installed the new ballasts it drew 685w. My plant height was about 30-32" or so, I bent the hell out of them to keep them that low and the result was fairly decent penetration. Not all the way to the bottom great, but fairly deep running light about 16" or so, maybe 18" I didnt measure. I just looked for signs of bleaching based on previous experience.
invi
New Member
Huhh thats more than i need to keep with my bare 400w HPS!
Maybe ill just get several 100-200Ws and hang all around the plants then.
Keep in mind the intensity (driven watts) is going to make a difference. You can have all 3w diodes but only drive them at 1w and have blah intensity & penetration. Or you can drive them at 3w and have buttloads but be too damn hot for the led and burn it out very soon. Heat will be the issue. But it's heat at the diode, burning it out rather than heat at the plants. So keep in mind a really good heat sink and fans to cool off the diodes.
Rough calculations for most of the good 3w lights suggest they are being driven at roughly 1.8-1.9 watts.
The ballasts I received when my unit went kaput, have it showing at about 2.37w per led. Very intense, may cost it some life, but it's still under warranty, and I'm not going to fret over it. I consider it a bonus for my grows.
Rough calculations for most of the good 3w lights suggest they are being driven at roughly 1.8-1.9 watts.
The ballasts I received when my unit went kaput, have it showing at about 2.37w per led. Very intense, may cost it some life, but it's still under warranty, and I'm not going to fret over it. I consider it a bonus for my grows.
Hosebomber
New Member
Wattage is a measurement of Voltage x Amperage = Watts... LED's are driven at a constant current. If you attempt to drive via a wattage pull or voltage you WILL have thermal runaway causing your LED's to overheat and burn out or cause your power supply to burn out/explode... yes they can and will explode. 1 Watt LEDs are driven at or about 200-350mA. 3 watt LEDs are driven between 600-750mA. The voltage pull depends on the chemical coating on the diode. Reds tend to be ran at a lower voltage thus have less "watt usage" than blues and whites. There are exceptions to this but that is the basics.
I've said this before, it is MUCH cheaper to find one of these Chinese companies to produce the light with your spectra and much less chance of you injuring yourself/family/home. If you have all of the required knowledge to do the wavelengths, electrical engineering, thermal management, and construction... it's cheaper to buy them 100% of the time.
I've said this before, it is MUCH cheaper to find one of these Chinese companies to produce the light with your spectra and much less chance of you injuring yourself/family/home. If you have all of the required knowledge to do the wavelengths, electrical engineering, thermal management, and construction... it's cheaper to buy them 100% of the time.
Ahhh... good stuff Hose. Learn something every day right?
So my "laymens" analysis of watts per led based on using a kill-a-watt meter is for naught or ok for simplicity sakes?
So my "laymens" analysis of watts per led based on using a kill-a-watt meter is for naught or ok for simplicity sakes?
So if I was to buy some 600w lights from China, what spectrums would I be looking for for my Veg and Flower rooms. I found a manufacturer who will make it to my specifications, and I currently am going with 8:1 r/b 3Wattx288 for flower, and 6
1 r/o/b 1w 576 for the Veg. 120 degree angle, thats about all I knowHosebomber
New Member
Bass, for simplicity and what the end user needs... the kill-a-watt is fine. You want to know how much power you are using, how much it's costing you to run the light, and if it works. The exact breakdown for what each LED is being driven at and what voltage pull is SHOULD only be needed in the engineering phase. I say should because poor production and engineering can cause overheating issues, short lifespans, and failures of the power supply/converters.
DD, Your question is very involved. I believe I mentioned it before in this thread and definitively within this forum, that you are not very likely to get the information you are asking for from anyone. Those of us that have actually done research and testing have put in hundreds to thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars (at least in my case) trying to figure out those questions. I personally am a firm believer in the full spectra complete interaction philosophy. While it's proven that red is required for flowering and blue helps with veg growth, there are so many interactions in the plant genome that we know little to nothing about. Chlorophyll F was just discovered a little over 2 years ago now and we have known about the Emerson effect for over 50 years. We now know that Chlorophyll F transfers far-red photo receptors to red at a chemical level and the reverse happens as well. They are still trying to figure out exactly why that happens and under what conditions.
I will say that only doing one blue and one red wavelength is a very bad idea. Make sure you also include those spectra that will give you the Emerson effect. As for the angles, 120 degrees is the base Lambertian pattern that LEDs give off... that means you have no secondary lenses and you may lack penetration for plants over 18-24 inches in height. The smaller the angle the less coverage you get but higher penetration. This also means that with tighter angles you can bleach or burn the upper leaves and colas.
DD, Your question is very involved. I believe I mentioned it before in this thread and definitively within this forum, that you are not very likely to get the information you are asking for from anyone. Those of us that have actually done research and testing have put in hundreds to thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars (at least in my case) trying to figure out those questions. I personally am a firm believer in the full spectra complete interaction philosophy. While it's proven that red is required for flowering and blue helps with veg growth, there are so many interactions in the plant genome that we know little to nothing about. Chlorophyll F was just discovered a little over 2 years ago now and we have known about the Emerson effect for over 50 years. We now know that Chlorophyll F transfers far-red photo receptors to red at a chemical level and the reverse happens as well. They are still trying to figure out exactly why that happens and under what conditions.
I will say that only doing one blue and one red wavelength is a very bad idea. Make sure you also include those spectra that will give you the Emerson effect. As for the angles, 120 degrees is the base Lambertian pattern that LEDs give off... that means you have no secondary lenses and you may lack penetration for plants over 18-24 inches in height. The smaller the angle the less coverage you get but higher penetration. This also means that with tighter angles you can bleach or burn the upper leaves and colas.
invi
New Member
Do you have any preference regarding angle - considering how tightly LEDs are packed in these lights does it make sense to have them above 60 deg? Assuming the light is used for vegetative and productive phase too and plants are between 2-4 feet.
When i wanted to order my light they asked me about what angle i prefer.. not sure what to tell them.
Regarding useful spectra - here are some numbers (probably been posted already, just to make it easier)
beta-Carotene 450nm & 480-485nm
Chlorophyll a 430nm & 662nm
Chlorophyll b 453nm & 642nm
Chlorophyll d 710nm(*)
Chlorophyll f 706nm(*)
Phycoerythrin 590nm
Phycocyanin 625nm
Emerson effect 670nm & 700nm.
(*) Not sure if needed for our girls
Hosebomber
New Member
Not sure where you got those from but nearly all of them are off by 5-10nm (except for Chloro A and B).
Chloro D is 401 455 and 696
Chloro F is 720(ish)
The org. Emerson study was using 650 and 730... there have been many other trials with wavelengths from 630 to 680 and 680-750. Generally speaking he got really lucky on the first shot.
FYI: watch using Wikipedia as a resource for scholarly information... One of the chlorophyll d sources is to an article on Chlorophyll F. Which is probably where they got the wrong wavelengths from.
invi
New Member
Every article i found says 706nm as peak - it can use wavelengths around 720, but the peak is more important.
Rest is from one of the lamp's brochure im thinking of buying.
Wow... we're lucky the scientists discovering chlorophyll did not think that way!
Rest is from one of the lamp's brochure im thinking of buying.
Wow... we're lucky the scientists discovering chlorophyll did not think that way!
Invi, If Hose says something on this topic of LED's and research, you can pretty much take it as Gospel. Dude has an insane education and background. Trust that over someone trying to SELL you stuff.
Hosebomber
New Member
First and foremost, those are the peaks that I listed. By no means am I the end all be all to LED knowledge. I encourage all people to look and find the information themselves. Just be careful where you get your information.
Actually they do think that way. Grad students and researchers get paid to find this information and release it in peer reviewed journals. They do not release any of their information until their studies are 100% complete. If they start releasing the information before they prove everything then someone else will release the peer reviewed article, get the credit, and get the next block of funding to do bigger and better studies.
However, I wasn't referring to the release of information on wavelengths. I was referring to the release of information regarding what ratios of what spectra to use in a production grow light. This is considered intellectual property. This is what makes Advanced lights better than some base Chinese mass producer. Same goes for the lens angles.
If you would like I'll give you a fast excel reference of 50 or so peak wavelengths of different photo receptors... that information is easy to find. If you look through this forum (or my post) I have linked at least 30 peer reviewed articles on photo-receptors and wavelength interactions to back up those peak wavelengths.
A link to that brochure would be nice tho
Actually they do think that way. Grad students and researchers get paid to find this information and release it in peer reviewed journals. They do not release any of their information until their studies are 100% complete. If they start releasing the information before they prove everything then someone else will release the peer reviewed article, get the credit, and get the next block of funding to do bigger and better studies.
However, I wasn't referring to the release of information on wavelengths. I was referring to the release of information regarding what ratios of what spectra to use in a production grow light. This is considered intellectual property. This is what makes Advanced lights better than some base Chinese mass producer. Same goes for the lens angles.
If you would like I'll give you a fast excel reference of 50 or so peak wavelengths of different photo receptors... that information is easy to find. If you look through this forum (or my post) I have linked at least 30 peer reviewed articles on photo-receptors and wavelength interactions to back up those peak wavelengths.
A link to that brochure would be nice tho
I'm having an issue with some seedlings and wondering if my LED might be the problem. At first I thought it was the nutes, ie over doing it, but it has happened again and this time they were still in starter cubes fed with dechlorinated tap water. I cant post photos at this time, but it looks like nutes burn with white spots. I first noticed browned tips on one NL seedlings when my DS200 was placed about 18 inches above the new sprouts. I backed the light off to about 36 after that but all but 2 out of 6 seedlings are showing the same sypmtoms. The first one is now pretty much done. Once I saw the others show signs I backed the light off another 12" or so. So I guess my question is this, has anyone seen burn from the DS series and what does it look like? I can relocate this to a separate thread, but wanted to put it out to our LED gurus first. I will try to get some photos up soon.
