Stevehman's LED Buyer's Guide

[yooper rex]

I'm having an issue with some seedlings and wondering if my LED might be the problem. At first I thought it was the nutes, ie over doing it, but it has happened again and this time they were still in starter cubes fed with dechlorinated tap water. I cant post photos at this time, but it looks like nutes burn with white spots. I first noticed browned tips on one NL seedlings when my DS200 was placed about 18 inches above the new sprouts. I backed the light off to about 36 after that but all but 2 out of 6 seedlings are showing the same sypmtoms. The first one is now pretty much done. Once I saw the others show signs I backed the light off another 12" or so. So I guess my question is this, has anyone seen burn from the DS series and what does it look like? I can relocate this to a separate thread, but wanted to put it out to our LED gurus first. I will try to get some photos up soon.

First off i`m the furthest thing there is from an LED guru. I`ve just completed my first indoor grow. I started off with 1 Advanced Diamond Series 300. Had 7 seedlings under it. When they started to get any size to them I realized the 1 LED wasn`t getting enough coverage. Had to dig real deep into my pockets and find the funds for another light. Ordered it,installed it and jumped back. These damn things are REALLY bright. after determining sex I ended up with 2 young ladies. Started off with the light 30"-32" above the ladies. After the second light was installed, gradually moved the lights down to 16"-18" above them. IMHO you gave your ladies nutes way too soon. My girls didn`t get any nutes until they had 4 or 5 sets of leaves, then only 1/4 strength. I harvested 5ozs from 1 and 6 ozs from #2 of dried and cured meds. I don`t think I will grow outside again. Especially after my investment in the LEDS. I did alot of research into the various companies and decided the Advanced LEDS were on the top of the heap. I definitely believe in LEDS.

 

[Bassman59]

Yooper is coming in there with good and important advice imo Dudehere. No nutes till 4 or 5 SETS of leaves. Not to be confused with 4 or 5 leaves. And don't count those two little round leaves from the sprout.

It's also a great idea to be nice and high above such young plants with a good led unit. Let them get a bit stronger and start lowering it. Their infants.

 

[DudeHere]

I agree, great advice but I've given no nutes yet. All sprouts have 4 to 6 sets of leaves. Just wondering if it could be the light. Thanks for the responses guys.

 

[DudeHere]

I agree, great advice but I've given no nutes yet. All sprouts have 4 to 6 sets of leaves. Just wondering if it could be the light. Thanks for the responses guys.

 

[Hosebomber]

If it is light burn the leaves will turn white first (bleaching) and then die and turn brown from the tips inward. You might want to check your tap water for other chemicals also.

 

[DudeHere]

If it is light burn the leaves will turn white first (bleaching) and then die and turn brown from the tips inward. You might want to check your tap water for other chemicals also.

That sounds like what I'm getting. Tap water is at 120 to 140 ppm. Dechorinated w/Dechlor from the pet shop. Funny thing is one of the sprouts is looking dynamite.

 

[DudeHere]

Ok so 2 days after moving the light, I think we might be ok. Everybody seems to be bouncing back and new growth looks pristine. Once I can post photos, I'll start a journal on this grow.

 

[ChesterC]

I have two lights hung over an area that is 2.5' x 2' ... One is the Advanced LED Extreme Flower 120, the other is a DS100 ... I've had both about a month. The Extreme Flower was purchased gently used on Ebay. This works out to about 35-40 watts per sq foot. Should be about right. I purchased this combo so that I could use them in two separate spaces on single plants in the future. After reading thru most of the LED grow journals here and at other sites I still have close to zero understanding of how high to place the lights. The first week I put the lights in the plants tripled in size but they needed to so I wasn't surprised. Currently the autos are flowering well but not adding height, except bud size. The one NL photo plant is not growing taller, but it's healthy. Perhaps the lights were changed to LEDs too late in the grow to get the full effect but some of my questions would be ....

1. How would an LED work on plants 2 feet tall with normal branching and not a solid canopy ?

2. In such a situation, how high above the canopy would lights be placed ?

3. Is there a rule of thumb such as start w/ the lights 30" above the tallest branch, then reduce height daily till bleaching occurs and then raise a couple inches ?

4. The whole core area / footprint thing is more confusing that it needs to be. At what height is the footprint/core calculated and is that a proper height to hang the lights. I saw some site recomended hanging the lights 2 meters above the canopy ... sounded ridiculous to me but what do I know ... damned little when it comes to LEDs ...

Just as important as a buyers guide would be a users manual ... Since the lights are not cheap, I think the industry as a whole, would benefit from people knowing how to use the equipment once it's purchased ... like the two spectrum switch on the DS100 ...

I may replace these 2 lights w/ one larger one and move these to cover other areas. I'm kind of impressed w/ DormGrows willingness to provide input here on the forum and may try one of their lights next. I know their instruction manual can't be any worse than Advanced's because I'm pretty much in the dark on both these lights and I've read more than a dozen LED grow manuals ...

 

[Hosebomber]

Whit the DS lights you want to keep them around 18-20" from the tops. The extreme flowers should be ok around the 12-16" range. The "core coverage" area for the advance products is listed at 18" from the canopy. The older lights do not have a secondary lens and do not get as much penetration.

1 & 2) You should be fine with the DS at ~18" from the tops and the lower popcorn buds will do fine.

3) That is how most people dial in their system. It's not really a rule of thumb but no manufacturing process is 100% accurate and there is variations in the products. That will give you the best results for YOUR system.

4) Coverage and Core Coverage are used as a way to tell how much of the LED panel are covering the area. Core coverage means that 75% of all of the LED's lights are blending in those areas. The higher you raise the light the more "core" area is being covered. If the company is saying 2 meters, that means they have very narrow lenses on their lights and to cover the area with 75% of the led's in that panel you need to have the light 6' away... this is a bad idea and most likely a poor quality light.

 

[ChesterC]

Thanks a bunch Hosebomber ... your post was very enlightening ... I guess that too close you not only run the risk of Bleaching, but also of getting an inefficient mix of the spectrums ....very good information. Would an LED have to be placed 20"-30" or more above the plant to cause stretching or is stretching eliminated w/ LEDs ?

First photo is plant before 2 weeks of LED light (18/6) ... all other photos were taken today ... kind of hard to imagine, but it's an autoflower and was due to flower and have it's week four growth spurt ...

 

[ChesterC]

Anyone that's familiar w/ the Extreme Flower 120 ... I'd love to hear your input re. this light's use and limitations for growing herb ... Since I paired it w/ a Diamond Series LED it's hard to know if it's pulling it's weight ... thanks ...

 

[Hosebomber]

Check out some of the OP's earlier grows, he used only extreme flower led's until they came out with the DS series. He had great results. As for causing stretching... Having less intense light than what the plant wants will cause that and it is no different with LED's. Anything above 24" (from memory here but Steve had a good chart in his height test grow) or so will start to cause stretching. I do not recall if this was from the DS series or not though.

 

[ChesterC]

I gotta say; I love LEDs ... the reduction in heat is tremendous, plants love them, lower energy costs ... what's not to love ?

A couple questions I have re. LEDs ...

1. Will LED light fade carpet ?

2. Will LED light power a small solar panel ?

Hosebomber, I'd like to say thanks once again for explaining the concept of height v. blend ... looking at things a whole lot different now and my plants are happier for it.

 

[Buckshot]

Check out some of the OP's earlier grows, he used only extreme flower led's until they came out with the DS series. He had great results. As for causing stretching... Having less intense light than what the plant wants will cause that and it is no different with LED's. Anything above 24" (from memory here but Steve had a good chart in his height test grow) or so will start to cause stretching. I do not recall if this was from the DS series or not though.

I am growing some seedlings in my flowering room to flower fast for a male. I am on my second run like this. The seelings are 3-4 FEET from the lights ... as far as I can get them away. In the veg room I have about 30" clearance but a less intense light

 

[ssdpr89]

Anyone on this site use lumigrow?

 

[VanillaLED]

Hi all first post. I really want to go the LED route since it just makes more sense, but I want to know my investment will pay off. The very wild range of prices for LED's is what bothers me. Lights from say Gro Stealth LED and Advanced LED seem to be in the same ballpark price-wise for a 3W 300W LED. Gro Stealth's is $749 for their Pro-Bloom addition and Advanced is $795. Steep prices considering I was going to follow SteveHman's advice and get 2 to put side-by-side. Then I went to Dorm Grow and saw they had a 3W 450W LED for $600 and that you can buy 2 for $580!! Also comes with a 3 years warranty with a raw power draw of 340W. Why such a change in prices? How can the previous two companies charge so much more for less power? Has anyone had success with Dorm Grow or does this seem like a marketing trick? Because at least I know Advanced has a very good reputation for making quality lights. I also saw a light recommended from an article about LED's called the Pro Grow 400 from Hydroponics Hut which I'm assuming is a 400W light. I do have a problem with this light though as there is a lack of pictures and information...not a good sign. But again for a 400W LED, they're charging $560. I can get two without it putting a hole in my pocket instead of spending almost $1,600 on 2 Advanced LED lights (even though I want it the most).

Why is there such a gap in pricing especially for lights that are supposed to be stronger? Is it that the better, more recognized companies have their name & reputation to bank on so they charge more? Or are lesser known companies simply trying to sell products and compete in the market?

Also, if I do go with Advanced LED, I'm leaning more and more to simply buying a 600W light which has an average power draw of 557W which is more than their 2 300W combined power draws (548W I believe) and I'd also be saving about $200. I'll be growing in a Secret Jardin DR120 tent which will be 4x4x6 and since I'll be using the SCROG method I can easily trim by screen to fit the coverage of the LED. Is this the wise way to go? I really want an Advanced LED light since people have at least gotten good grows with their product, I just want to make sure I'm not wasting $1,400.

 

[Bassman59]

Heya Vanilla, welcome to 420mag.

Let me qualify my statements by saying this is my personal opinion only. Though it is based on using the Grow Stealth LED 600w Pro-Bloom in the same tent you have, the secret jardin dr120.

In my opinion, if you are going to stay short with your plants, 2 of the 300w pro-blooms will do fine. If you're going tall in your scrog at all I would go with the 600w pro blooms to get the most penetration possible and bigger foot print with a really nice 3rd off effect. But that also doubles the price basically.

The problem I have with some of these manufacturers is they so often don't tell the whole story. And buyer beware if they don't ask.

So why is it one company, advertising a 450w (340w draw) is made in the same exact box (measurements) and draws 100 more watts? Are they over driving the led diodes to a point of over heating? Do they tell you how many led's are in this same box? If it's 144 of them like Grow Stealth, how is it they can claim coverage area 70% larger than the other? These are very important questions imho.

I can say for sure that based on my experience the pro bloom 600w just covers the advertised area at a reasonable height above canopy for good light intensity, but the outer edges will naturally have a bit less intensity. Based on my experience also, I would say the 600w pro bloom would not fully cover a 4x4 (which they don't advertise it as doing) area unless the plants were being kept pretty squat and you would lose a little intensity raising it high to cover the area. However, with two of them they would do a helluva good job. But they probably wouldnt cover a 5x5 right because lengthwise you couldnt get the 3rd off effect obviously and they are advertised for 4' lengthwise. But width would be awesome.

I also have to say the customer service and backing up of their product is awesome with Grow Stealth LED. I had a unit take a dump on me, two panels went out. As I returned the unit and gave them the tracking number, a replacement was shipped out to me before they even got it. Less down time. And shit happens, so I am not going to cry when a ballast takes a dump, so long as they back up the product. The replacement unit I got was made by a new vendor according to GS. I tested the wattage pull and it was way down from what it was supposed to be. I let them know, they ran some tests and saw the same issue in house. Apparently the vendor screwed the pooch and put the wrong ballasts in and GS had not realized this yet. So the immediately got me new ballasts and shipped them off to me. When I replaced them they drew MORE watts and not so much that is was crazy, but 685w on the 600w pro bloom. Basically, I scored big time. When I let GS know, and even voiced a little concern, worrying about over amping the diodes higher than the heat sink was intended for, the response was basically "enjoy it, it's under warranty anyways". That grow gave me the best buds. Solid big thick buds to no end.

The only reason I am not using the 600w pro bloom unit in my grow now is because my style of grow is too tall for proper penetration and if I got shorter and fatter, (which I basically am, but still taller than most scrogs), I would have to buy 2 more units (3 total) set triangularly to cover my new 5'x5' tent with the intensity I want. Unfortunately for me the $$ just wasn't in the cards, or I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Anyways, I hope these ramblings help you. Customer service and quality are very important to me. And I'm willing to pay a bit more for such.

 

[VanillaLED]

Bassman, when you say stay short (with the scrog) what maximum height would you allow your plants to grow? No more than 3 feet?

 

[Bassman59]

Bassman, when you say stay short (with the scrog) what maximum height would you allow your plants to grow? No more than 3 feet?

Much shorter with LED. Let's not forget, we're also running these lights 14-20" above the plant, and we want good light intensity through say 3/4's of the plant at least. So for a 24" tall plant, that's 18". Imho, 24" is about right for good led's.

At 3 feet tall, plus the 14+ odd inches above the plant, the lower buds just are not going to be getting much light intensity. And lollipopping the plant to have all bud growth at the top and 3 feet tall is just a waste of growth time getting that tall. Short and bushy is really good for led imo.

That doesnt mean short and thin (hempy or aero-flo) isn't a good idea. In fact it works well for led also. But that means many more plants in a given area also and some people have more stringent plant number limitations. Like in Nevada where a MMJ cardholder is allowed 4 plants in flower only. For many of these type people 4 plants per 8 weeks flower time in aero flo or hempy just wont give them their 8 weeks worth of meds. But don't let me get off on that tangent.

 

[VanillaLED]

Much shorter with LED. Let's not forget, we're also running these lights 14-20" above the plant, and we want good light intensity through say 3/4's of the plant at least. So for a 24" tall plant, that's 18". Imho, 24" is about right for good led's.

At 3 feet tall, plus the 14+ odd inches above the plant, the lower buds just are not going to be getting much light intensity. And lollipopping the plant to have all bud growth at the top and 3 feet tall is just a waste of growth time getting that tall. Short and bushy is really good for led imo.

That doesnt mean short and thin (hempy or aero-flo) isn't a good idea. In fact it works well for led also. But that means many more plants in a given area also and some people have more stringent plant number limitations. Like in Nevada where a MMJ cardholder is allowed 4 plants in flower only. For many of these type people 4 plants per 8 weeks flower time in aero flo or hempy just wont give them their 8 weeks worth of meds. But don't let me get off on that tangent.

2 ft. is not bad at all. You could get some really fat colas above the net. I'm planning on using Supernatural brand nutes too. Gro Terra, Bloom Terra, Superlicious, etc. Supernatural has a product that creates CO2 as well called Excellofizz that I want to try out where all you need to do is add water. With powerful LEDs, good nutes, daily Co2, and the scrog method...I think I can get a good yield from 2 Vanilla Kush plants!!!