SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

[SweetSue]

Sue, for the 36 hour oil, do you think it gets totally decarbed? I know that Decarboxylation is a matter of time and temp, but at 170 (or in my case 140°F) is that a high enough temp? Or does the length of time make up for the lower temp? Have you ever tried reheating it to 240° or so to see if it further decarbs? Thx.

I learned yesterday that the 36 hour process does not decarb completely. In fact, the batch I finished last night took three hours over a hot oil bath to completely decarb.

That was as long as it took to make FHO, so I may change my approach to eliminate the 36-hr cook. I still like the idea of steeping it at a low temperature, and I'll likely use that as a step for some artisan oils, but for everyday meds it's not worth the time or energy expended to run the oven for 36 hrs straight.

I'll be making the oil from now on by blending the buds and carrier oil...

...and decarbing in hot oil. This will infuse and I'll be able to monitor the decarb. It's basically FHO without the water content with these low and slo dried buds.

 

[Dave Groomer]

A repost from an intriguing new thread on pediatric therapies.

 

[SweetSue]

Thank you Dave. What would I do without you?

 

[Dave Groomer]

Thank you Dave. What would I do without you?

I am just trying to make sure good information is disseminated in the best way possible. You seem like the best way!

 

[Amy Gardner]

A repost from an intriguing new thread on pediatric therapies.

Thanks Sue - brilliant.

I haven't read it all yet but I went over and subbed to the thread. It made me wonder about that post feeding bliss that infants get after breastfeeding... and the connection to CB1 receptors and breastfeeding. That is kind of how I feel after a toke sometimes - like all the troubles melt away, and I'm content, like a happy infant!

 

[SweetSue]

In the interest of understanding, Spoon Theory

The Spoon Theory
by Christine Miserandino But You Dont Look Sick? support for those with invisible illness or chronic illness But You Dont Look Sick? support for those with invisible illness or chronic illness - ButYouDontLookSick.com is an online community for support, education, and inspiration.

My best friend and I were in the diner, talking. As usual, it was very late and we were eating French fries with gravy. Like normal girls our age, we spent a lot of time in the diner while in college, and most of the time we spent talking about boys, music or trivial things, that seemed very important at the time. We never got serious about anything in particular and spent most of our time laughing.

As I went to take some of my medicine with a snack as I usually did, she watched me with an awkward kind of stare, instead of continuing the conversation. She then asked me out of the blue what it felt like to have Lupus and be sick. I was shocked not only because she asked the random question, but also because I assumed she knew all there was to know about Lupus. She came to doctors with me, she saw me walk with a cane, and throw up in the bathroom. She had seen me cry in pain, what else was there to know?

I started to ramble on about pills, and aches and pains, but she kept pursuing, and didn't seem satisfied with my answers. I was a little surprised as being my roommate in college and friend for years; I thought she already knew the medical definition of Lupus. Then she looked at me with a face every sick person knows well, the face of pure curiosity about something no one healthy can truly understand. She asked what it felt like, not physically, but what it felt like to be me, to be sick.

As I tried to gain my composure, I glanced around the table for help or guidance, or at least stall for time to think. I was trying to find the right words. How do I answer a question I never was able to answer for myself? How do I explain every detail of every day being effected, and give the emotions a sick person goes through with clarity. I could have given up, cracked a joke like I usually do, and changed the subject, but I remember thinking if I don't try to explain this, how could I ever expect her to understand. If I can't explain this to my best friend, how could I explain my world to anyone else? I had to at least try.

At that moment, the spoon theory was born. I quickly grabbed every spoon on the table; hell I grabbed spoons off of the other tables. I looked at her in the eyes and said "Here you go, you have Lupus". She looked at me slightly confused, as anyone would when they are being handed a bouquet of spoons. The cold metal spoons clanked in my hands, as I grouped them together and shoved them into her hands.

I explained that the difference in being sick and being healthy is having to make choices or to consciously think about things when the rest of the world doesn't have to. The healthy have the luxury of a life without choices, a gift most people take for granted.

Most people start the day with unlimited amount of possibilities, and energy to do whatever they desire, especially young people. For the most part, they do not need to worry about the effects of their actions. So for my explanation, I used spoons to convey this point. I wanted something for her to actually hold, for me to then take away, since most people who get sick feel a "loss" of a life they once knew. If I was in control of taking away the spoons, then she would know what it feels like to have someone or something else, in this case Lupus, being in control.

She grabbed the spoons with excitement. She didn't understand what I was doing, but she is always up for a good time, so I guess she thought I was cracking a joke of some kind like I usually do when talking about touchy topics. Little did she know how serious I would become?

I asked her to count her spoons. She asked why, and I explained that when you are healthy you expect to have a never-ending supply of "spoons". But when you have to now plan your day, you need to know exactly how many "spoons" you are starting with. It doesn't guarantee that you might not lose some along the way, but at least it helps to know where you are starting. She counted out 12 spoons. She laughed and said she wanted more. I said no, and I knew right away that this little game would work, when she looked disappointed, and we hadn't even started yet. I've wanted more "spoons" for years and haven't found a way yet to get more, why should she? I also told her to always be conscious of how many she had, and not to drop them because she can never forget she has Lupus.

I asked her to list off the tasks of her day, including the most simple. As, she rattled off daily chores, or just fun things to do; I explained how each one would cost her a spoon. When she jumped right into getting ready for work as her first task of the morning, I cut her off and took away a spoon. I practically jumped down her throat. I said " No! You don't just get up. You have to crack open your eyes, and then realize you are late. You didn't sleep well the night before. You have to crawl out of bed, and then you have to make your self something to eat before you can do anything else, because if you don't, you can't take your medicine, and if you don't take your medicine you might as well give up all your spoons for today and tomorrow too." I quickly took away a spoon and she realized she hasn't even gotten dressed yet. Showering cost her spoon, just for washing her hair and shaving her legs. Reaching high and low that early in the morning could actually cost more than one spoon, but I figured I would give her a break; I didn't want to scare her right away. Getting dressed was worth another spoon. I stopped her and broke down every task to show her how every little detail needs to be thought about. You cannot simply just throw clothes on when you are sick. I explained that I have to see what clothes I can physically put on, if my hands hurt that day buttons are out of the question. If I have bruises that day, I need to wear long sleeves, and if I have a fever I need a sweater to stay warm and so on. If my hair is falling out I need to spend more time to look presentable, and then you need to factor in another 5 minutes for feeling badly that it took you 2 hours to do all this.

I think she was starting to understand when she theoretically didn't even get to work, and she was left with 6 spoons. I then explained to her that she needed to choose the rest of her day wisely, since when your "spoons" are gone, they are gone. Sometimes you can borrow against tomorrow's "spoons", but just think how hard tomorrow will be with less "spoons". I also needed to explain that a person who is sick always lives with the looming thought that tomorrow may be the day that a cold comes, or an infection, or any number of things that could be very dangerous. So you do not want to run low on "spoons", because you never know when you truly will need them. I didn't want to depress her, but I needed to be realistic, and unfortunately being prepared for the worst is part of a real day for me.

We went through the rest of the day, and she slowly learned that skipping lunch would cost her a spoon, as well as standing on a train, or even typing at her computer too long. She was forced to make choices and think about things differently. Hypothetically, she had to choose not to run errands, so that she could eat dinner that night.

When we got to the end of her pretend day, she said she was hungry. I summarized that she had to eat dinner but she only had one spoon left. If she cooked, she wouldn't have enough energy to clean the pots. If she went out for dinner, she might be too tired to drive home safely. Then I also explained, that I didn't even bother to add into this game, that she was so nauseous, that cooking was probably out of the question anyway. So she decided to make soup, it was easy. I then said it is only 7pm, you have the rest of the night but maybe end up with one spoon, so you can do something fun, or clean your apartment, or do chores, but you can't do it all.

I rarely see her emotional, so when I saw her upset I knew maybe I was getting through to her. I didn't want my friend to be upset, but at the same time I was happy to think finally maybe someone understood me a little bit. She had tears in her eyes and asked quietly "Christine, How do you do it? Do you really do this everyday?" I explained that some days were worse then others; some days I have more spoons then most. But I can never make it go away and I can't forget about it, I always have to think about it. I handed her a spoon I had been holding in reserve. I said simply, "I have learned to live life with an extra spoon in my pocket, in reserve. You need to always be prepared."

It's hard, the hardest thing I ever had to learn is to slow down, and not do everything. I fight this to this day. I hate feeling left out, having to choose to stay home, or to not get things done that I want to. I wanted her to feel that frustration. I wanted her to understand, that everything everyone else does comes so easy, but for me it is one hundred little jobs in one. I need to think about the weather, my temperature that day, and the whole day's plans before I can attack any one given thing. When other people can simply do things, I have to attack it and make a plan like I am strategizing a war. It is in that lifestyle, the difference between being sick and healthy. It is the beautiful ability to not think and just do. I miss that freedom. I miss never having to count "spoons".

After we were emotional and talked about this for a little while longer, I sensed she was sad. Maybe she finally understood. Maybe she realized that she never could truly and honestly say she understands. But at least now she might not complain so much when I can't go out for dinner some nights, or when I never seem to make it to her house and she always has to drive to mine. I gave her a hug when we walked out of the diner. I had the one spoon in my hand and I said "Don't worry. I see this as a blessing. I have been forced to think about everything I do. Do you know how many spoons people waste everyday? I don't have room for wasted time, or wasted "spoons" and I chose to spend this time with you."

Ever since this night, I have used the spoon theory to explain my life to many people. In fact, my family and friends refer to spoons all the time. It has been a code word for what I can and cannot do. Once people understand the spoon theory they seem to understand me better, but I also think they live their life a little differently too. I think it isn't just good for understanding Lupus, but anyone dealing with any disability or illness. Hopefully, they don't take so much for granted or their life in general. I give a piece of myself, in every sense of the word when I do anything. It has become an inside joke. I have become famous for saying to people jokingly that they should feel special when I spend time with them, because they have one of my "spoons".

© Christine Miserandino

 

[Amy Gardner]

Thanks Sue - I've been using that article for months now to help friends who wanted to better understand what I was tying to work out how to live with. It's a great way of helping people who are well and have trouble understanding, to see the difference between what living with that kind of illness or condition or syndrome is like and how it's so different from just being tired at the end of a long day, or a busy week or, well, just normal everyday tiredness. It helped me too. I pushed myself for years without a proper diagnosis because I had the "oh everybody gets tired - just buck up and carry on" mentality. In reality that made me much worse over time and my condition ended up getting a lot worse than it might have if I'd been diagnosed and learned to 'pace' many years ago. It's something I'm still struggling with learning and putting into practice. Even tho if I overdo it it can trigger days of not being able to function at all, I'm still prone to doing more than I know I should on days that I feel a bit better (or have a few more spoons than usual). I'm still learning how to save my spoons!

And 420mag is a super special place because at the moment in my life, it gets lots of my spoons! .

.

 

[Blew Hiller]

Used the Instant Pot the other day and it worked great. We set it for 1 hour low pressure (5.8 psi) with 1 liter of olive oil and some water to help break it down with the immersion blender. When it was done the "cooking" part, we let it slowly decompress to room temp and pressure (4 more hours). Hardly any smell whatsoever. We were able to use a baster to pull the majority of the "clean" oil from the top (you can see it in the left jar) and the remainder we put in the fridge to separate oil from water. This batch was CB Dutch Treat and today we are doing the same for White Widow.

 

[SweetSue]

Used the Instant Pot the other day and it worked great. We set it for 1 hour low pressure (5.8 psi) with 1 liter of olive oil and some water to help break it down with the immersion blender. When it was done the "cooking" part, we let it slowly decompress to room temp and pressure (4 more hours). Hardly any smell whatsoever. We were able to use a baster to pull the majority of the "clean" oil from the top (you can see it in the left jar) and the remainder we put in the fridge to separate oil from water. This batch was CB Dutch Treat and today we are doing the same for White Widow.

Excellent Blew! I'm going to repost this over at the FHO thread.

How long was the "cooking part?"

Never mind. You already told us. Lol! I got so excited at another successful run of FHO that I overlooked it.

 

[Blew Hiller]

My wife was just telling me it is crucial to have at least 25% of the total cooker (container) volume be water, since straight oil under pressure can be dangerous (and likely will damage your Instant Pot and its seals). My wife refused to leave it unattended the first time! After our second run we are now confident.

 

[FredNauj]

Hi SweetSue,
I'm extremely new to this... I have what might be a super complicated issue or may not.

I on my 4th day of a 60%THC to 10%CBD oil (using it in the back door 2x's a day and trying to tack the oil up to 4x's a day). I doing AMAZING with reduced Chrons symptoms like I haven't seen in YEARS!

But just 5 days ago, I have been finding for my body's life. I been taking antibiotics for almost a month now to clear up internal abscesses and active fistulas related to colitis and Crohn's.

As I've had this condition for 15+ years, I've tried almost everything and we are super close to surgery to remove organs. The last hope was to get on this new biologic, Stelera, to suppress the immune system. It's $12,000 a dose (being covered by insurance) and seems pretty insane to me... but...

My Question:
Should I do the Stelera? My hesitation is, how will I know which one is healing me, the oil or the biologic? Hesitation is also, if I don't take the Stelara and my condition flairs again I don't have any choice but to get surgery...and this would be the 3 time of going through this incredible painful flairs.

I have no idea where to go to discuss this, I'm just doing the oil on the fly to try and heal an emergency situation.

Have so many questions....

Thank you for any advice!

 

[FredNauj]

OMG this is amazing. Thank yo so much for sharing the healing love.

 

[FredNauj]

There's 337 pages!! OMG...

How does one do this... I'm lost. Can I share my symptoms and condition and someone can just tell me what to take?

 

[SweetSue]

There's 337 pages!! OMG...

How does one do this... I'm lost. Can I share my symptoms and condition and someone can just tell me what to take?

Hello Fred. No need to feel anxious.

What can we help you with? Share away.

I backed up and caught up on what you'd already posted. Let me think about this for a few minutes.

 

[SweetSue]

Ok Fred, I know nothing really about Stelera, but the thought of a drug designed to suppress the immune system make my blood go cold. The function of the Endocannabinoid system is to balance the immune system with the central nervous system. How can suppressing the immune system be a good thing? One wonders about the anticipated side effects of such a drug.

I can't advise you one way or the other, but I can say that if it were me I'd be more interested in giving the oil a try before I tried the Stelera. I mean a serious try, as in a regular regimen with 4-5 doses a day for a month. If labs showed no improvement then we could talk about the dangerous pharma drugs.

Scheduling 4-5 doses keeps a continuious supply of reserve cannabinoids for the ECS to put to work signalling for homeostasis. You're already seeing positive results. I'd choose to believe that the natural inclination of my ECS to spontaneously heal me would continue to get more and more higher ground. CCO has been a proven beneficial treatment for Chron's. You have every reason to be optimistic about healing potential.

I'd advise the oil be processed into biobombs for the greatly-improved bioavailability. The capsules make good suppositories. Are you familiar with the thread on BioBombs? Improved effect with less oil. Think of the cost-effectiveness.

I'm not a big fan of tacking, so I applaud your dedication. There is a place for it, but my belief is that the suppositories are sufficient therapeutically for what you're treating. I'd rather get the majority of the dose in through the back door. Just my personal preference. I'm a sloppy tacker, but then I have no physical concerns that require medicating, so I can get away with being sloppy.

 

[Blew Hiller]

Used the Instant Pot the other day and it worked great. We set it for 1 hour low pressure (5.8 psi) with 1 liter of olive oil and some water to help break it down with the immersion blender. When it was done the "cooking" part, we let it slowly decompress to room temp and pressure (4 more hours). Hardly any smell whatsoever. We were able to use a baster to pull the majority of the "clean" oil from the top (you can see it in the left jar) and the remainder we put in the fridge to separate oil from water. This batch was CB Dutch Treat and today we are doing the same for White Widow.

Also, to clarify, the Instant Pot @ low pressure (5.8psi) remains at a temp range of 229-232F.

 

[SweetSue]

I was watching an old episode of Bubbleman's World yesterday, an interview of Dr. David Allen, when the good doctor made a comment that set me back on my heels.

That cannabis is on Schedule One for a singular reason, to restrict research.

I knew this. It's one of the things that frustrated me so many times, but for some reason, when I heard him say it it hit home like never before.

The chief argument doctors give for not being enthusiastic about prescribing cannabis is the lack of randomized trials. If it's impossible to get the randomized trials up and running to satisfy their needs, then in their minds that kinda closes the door on an effective medication without dangerous side effects. One patients can grow and process into safe meds right in the sanctuary of their own homes, and gain the therapeutic benefits of gardening cannabis. All the while ignoring the elephant in the room, the ECS they for some reason resist learning about. WTH???

Somewhere this logjam has to give.

I actually heard another doctor in a different presentation I watched of a group panel for doctors in Pennsylvania on cannabis as medicine, say that addiction to cannabis was a potential risk. This from the doctor who wrote "Stoned; A Doctor's Case For Medical Marijuana" nonetheless. A man who professes to have educated himself in cannabinoid therapies, at least as how practiced by doctors with the courage to do so.

When self-proclaimed enlightened doctors continue to spew misinformation and refer to the plant as "marajuana," it highlights the fun we have ahead of us to educate them properly.

The pharmaceutical companies are investing lots of cash in our politicians to keep the Schedule as is. The "Justice" system is spending loads of cash in the same direction to protect their own cash flow. And we haven't even mentioned the paper industry, or fabrics, or renewable fuels, and plastics that would biodegrade,.........

The next thirty years should be quite an experience. I'm glad I'll be around to witness it.

 

[SweetSue]

So I'm listening to Mara Gordon speaking on dosing. She just made a comment about working with patients to the effect that it's easier to work with someone who has little if any experience with cannabis. They'll have no difficulty separating the cannabis use from the social experience

"...because your medicine isn't your social life, it's your life."

That statement made me uneasy, and I'm not sure yet why. Mara often makes me uneasy. I admire the woman's drive and excellent business sense. She's a fierce advocate for her patients and their families, and I believe she's a driving force in getting cannabis to be taken seriously by the mainstream medical community.

There's this disdain for the cannabis culture, for lack of a better explaination. I listen to her deride the naming of a cultivar Gorilla Glue, and demean what she perceives to be stereotypes. Such derision! She has a hard edge. Maybe that's what it is that rubs me wrong. I feel like she'd be so much happier if we'd all stop "playing" with cannabis and take the medical cannabis seriously, like she does. I'm not here to make anyone happy except me, and I'm old enough to understand that there's no one right way to do this.

It's subtle cannabis shame that serves none of us well.

I have such a different view of the plant and the therapies that I sometimes wonder....... It's a plant. For thousands of years it was used holistically to help the body heal. I see no real gain in suddenly insisting that the administration of this plant I can grow in my closet and make into a healing oil on my stove in my unsanitary kitchen where I also cook my food be restricted to measured doses. I work on a principal of find the optimal therapeutic dose, split the daily into 4-5 doses a day and let the body get back to healing mode. Creating a more even Endocannabinoid tone over time by supplying a constant and consistent dose, but not so tied up in keeping close track of the cannabinoid count.

After all, let's be honest. No one yet knows what's really going on. Patterns may emerge, but every patient has the potential to be totally different in the way they process phytocannabinoids. Every case has to be handled the same way - start low and go slow.

Which reminds me:

According to a poster in the community at Green Flower Media CB1 receptors are biphasic, but not CB2 receptors. This was new information for me. The study she linked was published in Neuropsychopharmacology, November of 2012.

Biphasic Effects of Cannabinoids in Anxiety Responses: CB1 and GABAB Receptors in the Balance of GABAergic and Glutamatergic Neurotransmission

I haven't had the chance to look through it yet.

It's a plant. A plant that interacts in some miraculous way we have yet to understand with the system that regulates all other body systems. It's really best thought of as a food, a nutraceutical. All this push to make it a legitimate medicine, dosed like a pharmaceutical, is undermining the foundations of cannabis medicines. There's so much potential. I refuse to be frustrated.

Tolerance. Acceptance. Patience. Joy. Insight.

You know, I'm beginning to believe that the most effective approach is to eat the plant raw. I keep coming back to the idea of a sea of green made of budcicles in solo cups, designed to be harvested one a day. One of these days I'll buy a lemongrass juicer...........

Good grief, I need to stop for the night. 1 AM. Time to pull out the Chem Dawg.

 

[stayalive]

hello all

sorry if this question was already asked and answered

I am looking for a good test for cannabis oil to know the THC level in %

 

[medmanmike]

Yeah Mike, with the pain creams it's all about high THC, so you want quality plant material.

Yes, I have reworked the whipped cream, and it comes out the same. I suspect you'll be much happier with the new results. Stop back and update us please.

Sue, ok, took some odds n ends trim from the freezer. Sliced and diced the trim which filled a quart mason jar about 3/4 full. The cured buds of these strains were tested over 22% total Cannabinoids- 18% average THC, so I know they were pretty potent. Did a QWET with 190 proof enthanol. Two washes, 3 minute each. Boiled it off and ended up with approx. 2 ½ ml of oil. Melted down the existing whipped cream, added the oil and rewhipped it. It came out a little greener, but whipped up ok.

I had intended to Decarb the oil afterwards, but it reduced so quickly and there was so little that I went ahead and put it in the cream. Nonetheless, it was potent enough. I spread it on my arthritic hand and put on a surgical glove to prevent getting it on things. Ther was significant pain relief! Just to be sure i wasn't feeling the effects of the 36 hour cap I had taken before hand, I did it again this morning prior to working in the garden. Again, very good pain relief, not to mention increased mobility (with the hand.) Finally some relief!

Any thoughts regarding it not being decarbed ahead of time? It's been sitting in the freezer since March 2017, so probably some naturally occurring Decarb took place.