Volksgarden Grow Attempt #2

[VgAce]

This is my second attempt at growing with a Volksgarden. I bought the machine for $2500.00 thinking it would be a great producer but so far I have not made a dime. My first attempt ended with no real useable product.

Here are some pics:

I am currently using General Hydroponics Flora Nova with GH Silica and some Rapid Start. The plants are under a 600 W HPS light. The temp in the room is about 80 degrees.

I am starting again with some Blue Dream and Grape God. I did not have any Silica to use on the first attempt. I thought that during the second attempt it would help but so far I have lost 5 blue dream plants. This is what they look like when the die:

 

[pantyraid7036]

Oh wow, thats a beautiful machine!!!

I don't think you can resize pics here (except with HTML but then the watermark is off)- you have to edit them on your computer and upload them first.

Good luck! Definitely gonna follow!

 

[stealthgrow]

I'm sub'd.
That machine is straight outta space oddessy 2010, looks like the space station in the movie if i remember correct, its been years. lol
That's cool that the plants grow in that thing, does it turn slowly around the light? In the pic of the dead plants, what I'm noticing is...where are the roots? Do the roots have anywhere to go other than into the rockwool cubes? If not, that's the problem.
The roots need more room. See how the leaves at the bottom of the plants are all yellow, but the leaves at the top still look like they are green..sorta, It looks like the plants are root bound in those little pots, so they can't grow anymore, get very unhappy, and pretty much die.
I'm watching, very interesting machine. If you have any questions, don't be shy. Hope this helps.

 

[KingJohnC]

subscribed

 

[Vick074]

Glad to see you started a journal.
Looks like you're plants are in definite need of Cal/mag from the first few photos.
Also they appear to be over fed. What are your PPM's or ec in res when feeding? PH?
You mentioned that the temp of the room was about 80 degrees, but what is the temp at canopy level? Looks like heat stress as well.
Is it unusually dry where you're growing? What's the RH?
I'm thinking that there is a combination of a few things that are a contributing factor here.
But I'm sure everyone here can help you get that thing running like it should be.

 

[J189RFC]

Egads! Those poor plants I am so sorry it's being difficult on you. So If I understand the rock wool is in a container and it gets swept through water every how many minutes? Is there any oxygen in the reservoir? How much nutrients are you using per gallon? Is there a bigger res, or only the table top one? How often do you add water?


Lots of question, but in my honest opinion you need more water and oxygen(fresher water too), they need more time in the water, 1x per hour at least. I also noticed the plants are of different sizes, do you clone outside of the machine? Every time I've seen one all the plants in there were the same, identical, same strain, same age, etc. That way you can feed them all the same thing.

Either way, I am on board to help you solve your rotating problems!

 

[VgAce]

Ok let me try and answer all of the questions.

Stealthgrow the plants are grown in Delta 4 Grodan grow cubes. 3 x 3 x 2.5 inch. Can't get any bigger.

vick074 my gauge says about 83 degrees with 54% RH. I thought that was fine. Also I have a bottle of CalMag. I just fed them tonight with a solution of Silica/GH Flora Nova/Rapid Start. I know I can wait two days and then the leaves start to droop. If I wait 3 days then they die from no water cause the cubes are bone dry. I cannot water them every day cause then I would over water them. So 2 days so far is the sweet spot. What ration do I add the CalMag? I am currently using a 5 gallon bucket filled almost to the top as my res. Also I can run SM90 like you suggested last time I think.

J189RFC the drum rotates one full rotation in about 50 minutes. The rockwool is so porous that you only need to run it thru about once every 2 days. If you let them run more than one rotation then you risk overwatering them. I have an air stone in my res bucket. And yes from now on I am only going to run indicas in the machine. Sativas are too tall.

 

[VgAce]

Here are some new pics:

Blue Dream

Grape God. Small and bushy. The way i like them in this machine.

Grape God 2

Grape God 3

This is an outside pic. You can see the bucket reservoir with the air blower attached.

As you can see none of the leaves are really reaching towards the light. They are all droopy. I thought this was from over watering. But then if I don't water them at least once every 2 days then they die.

 

[Vick074]

Humidity sounds good.
Although 83 degrees is a little hot unless you're using CO2.
Is that what that bag is hanging from the top of the tent? CO2 dispenser?
One thing that I haven't heard you mention once is your PPM's and your PH. From the other rotary grows I've followed, these are the 2 most important things they've monitored with these systems. If one or both of these are too far out of whack, and you keep feeding them while they're trying to recover? You'll get them dead pretty fast.. (like 3 days fast)
I'm leaning to believe that your problem might be something to do with one of these, or both.
If you're plants are over fed, they wont really stretch toward the light, they'll crumple because they're trying to repair from being fed their last stiff drink. Although heat stress shows this as well.
Do you keep your PH around 5.8?
I can't speak from experience, but I have heard from a friend (using an different brand rotary garden), who was feeding every day, Cal/mag with every feed at 5ml's per gallon. PH-5.8, PPM's 800'ish week 2 flower. Just one rotation worth, then draining the feeding tray. Next just water and carbs (molasses), then feed again.
And that was all he needed to keep the rockwell cubes wet and the plants happy.
But, he knew how much they were feeding, and how much water they were drinking, from the PPM's rising and falling, PH swings, and how much extra water he was adding to the res to maintain steady levels etc. sheesh..
So many variables that a hydro grower has to juggle, in order to "control" the grow.
Are you using RO water or tap? what's it read out of the spigot? (PPM)
I've noticed that others that have done rotary gardens (like you mentioned) use only Indica strains too.
Sativa's or even sativa doms, just stretch too much once you flip em to 12/12. Then you're burdened with trying to hold them back from growing into the light.
Your Grape god's seem to be the best strain to run in the volks seeing as they're indica dominant. They won't stretch as much during transition keeping them short and bushy. perfect for sog buds. I guess as you learn from doing a few runs, how your strains will react through changeover, so you can better judge when to flip.
Oh yeah, S*90 is a great product to use for keeping everything sterilized and clean, as a wetting agent, and can even deter crritters and fungus. I've used it in my Coco since ColaMonster got me onto it, and I love the stuff.
Those grape god pics look like they're doing pretty good now!

3 more quick questions Ace:
1.Is your 600w HPS dimmable? or full on 600..
2.Are you able to white balance your camera to the HPS, on so we can see the color of the plants better?
and,
3.How cool is it watching your plants rotating around a ferris wheel!?

If I had that thing, I'd be cancelling the cable t.v. And be spending most of my time planted in a massaging lazy boy, right in front of that thing.

 

[VgAce]

The 600W is not dimmable. I am not able to white balance my camera. But I could take some of the plants out and take a pic of them under normal light.
And it would be very cool to watch this thing if I could figure out how to make it work. A machine is only good if it produces a desired result. So far this has been a $2400.00 gamble that is not paying off.

I am watching the PPms and PH. I have started daily watching the PH in my res keeping it from 5.8 to 6.2 I did not measure the PPMs last time but I know that I only used a light dosage of Flora Nova Grow.

 

[Keith Lake]

 

[stealthgrow]

Hi again, Yes, the PH of 5.8-6.0 in hydro is perfect, and PPM of your water would be nice to know and will help diagnose the problem but if you said a light feeding than they should be fine in that area. So back to my first post and observation. You said that your rockwool cubes are 3x3x2.5 inches and that's all the space your plants root system gets?? I can tell you now, that's not enough space for a large plants root system. Your plants are root bound in my opinion and it doesn't matter what your PH or PPM is if that's all the space you allow for your roots.

Here's the roots on my plants that are about 4 weeks old. (taken Aug. 11) The roots have already grown out of the 2x2 rockwool cube i started them in at that point, and the roots are much bigger now.

In my opinion, this is the main problem your having, and that's why your plants are getting to a certain size and then dying.
Hope this helps to shed some light on the problem.

 

[stealthgrow]

...... could you maybe just put 1 plant per row in the middle, but fill up the row with rockwool cubes, after removing the plastic surrounding it, so that the roots can grow into the rookwool beside the starting cube. ???...maybe?
I haven't seen this machine in any other grows ever, but others said they have seen it used for MJ, you might want to see if you can find some of those journals or youtube video's etc to try and gets some pointers how how to use it successfully.
Good luck my friend.

 

[VgAce]

I cannot put a bigger rockwool cube in there. It is limited by the size of the plastic cube that holds the rockwool cube. Here is a pic of the cube. This slides into the drum. There is in fact a smaller size, but I opted for the largest size they have.

Also you have to realize there there is only 2 feet of growth room before the plant hits the light. So according to the engineers of this machine, the Delta 4 Grodan cube is the perfect size. Besides it already worked for this guy: Omega Garden's Volksgarden Rotary Garden

 

[Vick074]

Yep, the size of the rockwell is not the problem.
They're not going to be root bound when they're only growing a foot tall.
Can you take a picture of your roots if any are coming out the bottom of the cube?
I'm guessing something is amiss with your PPM's.
What are they at?
And are you changing the 5 gallon res weekly?

 

[Vick074]

I have started daily watching the PH in my res keeping it from 5.8 to 6.2 I did not measure the PPMs last time but I know that I only used a light dosage of Flora Nova Grow.

If you have just started watching them now, that has me concerned that you haven't been up until this point.
PH and PPM's/ec are the 2 most important things to watch with hydro IMO.

 

[Green Knight]

Neat machine, I've never seen one of those before. So does it rotate and basically dip the rockwool cubes through a res of nutes? What about removing the plastic from the rockwool? This will let the roots grow out and expand, and the cubes look like they're held in those plastic clamps and can grow out the sides.
How fast does the thing turn? If the roots get dipped regularly they could grow quite a bit out of the sides and get quite large, would love the exposure to the air and would then get dipped in the nutes before they dried out. Might solve the overwatering too because the oxygen could get at the roots, whereas the plastic wrapping of the rockwool stops this.

 

[Green Knight]

...... could you maybe just put 1 plant per row in the middle, but fill up the row with rockwool cubes, after removing the plastic surrounding it, so that the roots can grow into the rookwool beside the starting cube. ???...maybe?
I haven't seen this machine in any other grows ever, but others said they have seen it used for MJ, you might want to see if you can find some of those journals or youtube video's etc to try and gets some pointers how how to use it successfully.
Good luck my friend.

Just read your post stealth! I'm with you, I think try removing the plastic wrapping

 

[stealthgrow]

Hi again.
Ok, so if root space is not the prob, then ya, the only other option is PPM of the water. You said your Ph'ing the water to 5.8 which is perfect, you can let it slide up or down a point or 2 at most but then bring it back to 5.8 with PH down/up.

You never answered the question of water. Where are you getting your water? Is it tap water or bottled, or RO water? Depending on where you live, tap water can range anywhere between 10-500 ppm and that's without adding any nutrients at all. Bottled water usually sits around 150-300 ppm from what I've noticed, and RO (reverse osmosis) water is pretty much 0-10ppm
Next info that we need is PPM # pls.

 

[VgAce]

So i let my new clones veg under a CFL for about 2 weeks and let the roots work their way into the rockwool before I put them into the machine. If I can see white roots coming out of the bottom then I know that I can safely put them in the machine. As for those Blue Dreams that died I know what killed them. It had nothing to do with the machine. it is such a stupid mistake of something that I added that I am embarrassed to talk about it.

So far i am learning that heat is a mojor factor in keeping these plants going. Until they get bigger they are unable to deal with all of the stress of living in a constantly rotating drum. That is of course unless you have really strong clones to start off with. The Grape Gods are doing Ok. The blue Dreams are not doing so well. They are simply too tall a plant for this machine. Only short, fatties are allowed in my VG from now on.