Wonderland Grow

[HutchBenedict]

Hi Alice.
When I first saw those pre-flowers on a plant I thought she'd been pollinated by a male from somewhere. I thought they were seeds. LOL
Your plants are looking very healthy

Same thing happened to me. First time I saw them I posted a picture asking the same thing.

 

[bobrown14]

Uh, but let me reorganize the whole room first!

That's too funny right there. lol ^^^

To answer your question about male bits on a female plant. Yes they do it a lot.

Much more common than you think. Why we are seeing all these gender issues with
hoo-mans. Its been a thing for a long long while genetically. Plants and animals. But hushed up in the human world for some reason. I think that the % of transgender humans is like 10% at birth. I read that somewhere - could be wrong. My pop was a pediatrician - we had many quiet talks about this subject.

This genetic subject is where Mendel fucked up. He discarded "mutants" and did not include them in his final studies. He did write about it tho and didn't destroy his writings, thankfully. Now we have more to learn! woohoo.

Here's something that you should consider.

IF you stress your plants early specially during the pre-flowering stage you can actually promote the plant to put out male bits. How we produce seed with chemicals on a female plant.

Here's why:

Plants that are stressed early in life (dicots - male and female plants separate), have in the genes a method to pass on the genetics by way of self pollination. We have been exploiting this trait a fair amount with cannabis seed production. By "we" I'm talking breeders.

Reason for this is say there's a drought, and all or most all plants die, there's no way for plants to reproduce so they have evolved to have a method to self pollinate should the plants feel that need usually brought on by environmental stress.

Tying plants down and taking off leaves is just 1 form of stress. Not saying to stop mainlining or whatever technique you're using there but just food for thought going forward.

I use a hands off approach - specially strains I've never ran and cant find grow advice from someone that has grown out that strain.

So the answer is for sure plants will grow male bits on a female plant and sometimes we actually make it happen. Sometimes on purpose and sometimes not. The not on purpose is a baddy. Bot not a complete loss. Seeds are big business after all.


Your plants are looking VERY good - this is the fun part growing flowers.

Woot you got this!

Good job - Alice.

You need some good weed - you're on your way to it.

Keep the ball level & Eye on the prize. Yum yums are coming.

 

[Old Salt]

That's too funny right there. lol ^^^

To answer your question about male bits on a female plant. Yes they do it a lot.

Much more common than you think. Why we are seeing all these gender issues with
hoo-mans. Its been a thing for a long long while genetically. Plants and animals. But hushed up in the human world for some reason. I think that the % of transgender humans is like 10% at birth. I read that somewhere - could be wrong. My pop was a pediatrician - we had many quiet talks about this subject.

This genetic subject is where Mendel fucked up. He discarded "mutants" and did not include them in his final studies. He did write about it tho and didn't destroy his writings, thankfully. Now we have more to learn! woohoo.

Here's something that you should consider.

IF you stress your plants early specially during the pre-flowering stage you can actually promote the plant to put out male bits. How we produce seed with chemicals on a female plant.

Here's why:

Plants that are stressed early in life (dicots - male and female plants separate), have in the genes a method to pass on the genetics by way of self pollination. We have been exploiting this trait a fair amount with cannabis seed production. By "we" I'm talking breeders.

Reason for this is say there's a drought, and all or most all plants die, there's no way for plants to reproduce so they have evolved to have a method to self pollinate should the plants feel that need usually brought on by environmental stress.

Tying plants down and taking off leaves is just 1 form of stress. Not saying to stop mainlining or whatever technique you're using there but just food for thought going forward.

I use a hands off approach - specially strains I've never ran and cant find grow advice from someone that has grown out that strain.

So the answer is for sure plants will grow male bits on a female plant and sometimes we actually make it happen. Sometimes on purpose and sometimes not. The not on purpose is a baddy. Bot not a complete loss. Seeds are big business after all.


Your plants are looking VERY good - this is the fun part growing flowers.

Woot you got this!

Good job - Alice.

You need some good weed - you're on your way to it.

Keep the ball level & Eye on the prize. Yum yums are coming.

@bobrown14 Very well said.

 

[AliceGG]

Hey there!

So, not as promised, but here I am a day later.
I was quite busy recently (actually not, I just tend to get lazy sometimes), but I have a lot to update. I've just taken a few pics 5 minutes ago to show you the current look of my two beloved plants.

Hi Alice.
When I first saw those pre-flowers on a plant I thought she'd been pollinated by a male from somewhere. I thought they were seeds. LOL
Your plants are looking very healthy

Same thing happened to me. First time I saw them I posted a picture asking the same thing.

Looks like it's not only me!

That's too funny right there. lol ^^^

To answer your question about male bits on a female plant. Yes they do it a lot.

Much more common than you think. Why we are seeing all these gender issues with
hoo-mans. Its been a thing for a long long while genetically. Plants and animals. But hushed up in the human world for some reason. I think that the % of transgender humans is like 10% at birth. I read that somewhere - could be wrong. My pop was a pediatrician - we had many quiet talks about this subject.

This genetic subject is where Mendel fucked up. He discarded "mutants" and did not include them in his final studies. He did write about it tho and didn't destroy his writings, thankfully. Now we have more to learn! woohoo.

Here's something that you should consider.

IF you stress your plants early specially during the pre-flowering stage you can actually promote the plant to put out male bits. How we produce seed with chemicals on a female plant.

Here's why:

Plants that are stressed early in life (dicots - male and female plants separate), have in the genes a method to pass on the genetics by way of self pollination. We have been exploiting this trait a fair amount with cannabis seed production. By "we" I'm talking breeders.

Reason for this is say there's a drought, and all or most all plants die, there's no way for plants to reproduce so they have evolved to have a method to self pollinate should the plants feel that need usually brought on by environmental stress.

Tying plants down and taking off leaves is just 1 form of stress. Not saying to stop mainlining or whatever technique you're using there but just food for thought going forward.

I use a hands off approach - specially strains I've never ran and cant find grow advice from someone that has grown out that strain.

So the answer is for sure plants will grow male bits on a female plant and sometimes we actually make it happen. Sometimes on purpose and sometimes not. The not on purpose is a baddy. Bot not a complete loss. Seeds are big business after all.


Your plants are looking VERY good - this is the fun part growing flowers.

Woot you got this!

Good job - Alice.

You need some good weed - you're on your way to it.

Keep the ball level & Eye on the prize. Yum yums are coming.

Thanks for the kind words, bobrown!
Your post has great bits of info, as always. I hope I haven't done anything too aggressive on my plants yet. Seeds are indeed expensive, but I'd be fine without getting a ton of free seeds for this run!

So, let's get into it!
Things I want to address in this post:
-how the plants are progressing
-yellowing of older leaves with quite visible brown (I think burnt) spots on them
-one funny, mutant branch
-and what else comes to my mind.

So, the AK is growing steadily. I felt like growth was stunted for a while, but looking at it now, she is only bushing out more, day by day. Her branches and bigger leaves are tied down and sideways at 7 different locations. I can't say I truly stress her with this kind of training, it's mostly just pulling her branches to areas where light can directly hit the budsites. With this method I can now count 7 main budsites (with separate branches) plus the main stem, which is, of course, the biggest. Apart from these, there are a lot of smaller sprouts where budding can begin. As a first timer, I'm actually satisfied with her current condition at this moment.

Jack, on the other hand, is something I could not figure out yet. Her leaves look beautiful, and in fact, the whole plant is a beauty compared to the AK, but she is so bushy, it's like every one of her branches are fighting against each other. I try to fiddle with her leaves daily, pushing the larger ones down, pulling the main branches up above the canopy, but it's quite crowded in there. I think the last 2-3 days is when her branches reached the point where they can finally outgrow from the shades of the huge fanleaves. If things go as I expect them to go, she may become a short, but very happy and bushy plant with 6-7 colas.
Look at how huge those leaves are!

I took off this leave a few days ago from the AK, this was the very first set of her 3-tail leaves, so it was way under the canopy when I took it off. Somehow it doesn't seem that yellow on this picture, but it was quite yellow in reality. Also, the dark parts on the sides of the leaf is something I can't identify. Any ideas?

Since then, I noticed yellowing on two other leaves too. Here's a pic of the worse one.
It's only on two of the lower leaves, but I'm worried if it spreads elsewhere. Sorry for the blurple, though you can see the color difference compared to the other leaf that lies on the sick one, that's much darker green.
Also those brown spots...

And then I have this strange, mutant branch too. I noticed it weeks ago, but always forgot to mention it here in the journal.
This branch doesn't develop two opposite side leaves, when a new set comes out. Instead, it always pushes out 3 leaves, one from a "normal" position and two more from the opposite side of the branch. The dobule leaves always grow from almost the same spot on the branch.
On this pic, you can see the newest sprout, the 3 leaves are clearly visible. Behind them a somewhat developed set. one on the bottom and two on the upper side.

This is the same branch, older leaves. Those two behind the little sprout come from almost the exact same spot. Is this something that often happens? To be honest, I'm ok with it, just kind of funny looking.

I wish I had more time, but I have to leave in a few minutes, so this is it for today's update.
When I'm done with the new layout in the room, I'll definitely upload pictures about the hopefully more stealthy setup. I do also have to install my carbon filter very soon, since smell is going to get out of control without it.

I hope every one of you had a great 4/20!

 

[SlyTown420]

Happy belated 4/20 @AliceGG! Looking good. Hopefully someone can tell you more about the yellowing.

 

[Carcass]

Hi,Alice- plants are looking very good,they're right around 50 days old now,so you'll start to see the older bottom leaves yellowing and dying off-they don't get the "good" light down there,so they're not photosynthesizing much ,so the plant doesn't need them.
She'll suck all the goodness out of them,then drop them off-normal stuff
If the yellowing starts to move up the plant to the new leaves that get plenty of light,then you may have a problem,but I think the ones dying now are a normal part the plant's lifecycle.

 

[AliceGG]

I was about to post about it, because I'm worried. I'm going to take a better picture of it without the blurple on, but what I can say is the most affected leaf is not one that's not getting light. It is actually in the "hotspot", by that I mean it's under the middle of the LED, and the light is not blocked at all. That one leaf is totally yellow now with a lot of brown spots on it. Two other leaves that also get a lot of light started to turn yellow too. All these 3 leaves are directly under the light.
They are on that side which is closest to the other plant. The "shady" side is not affected at all.

I've just seen this huge chart and it leads me to nitrogen deficiency. I'm pretty much sure she got enough nitrogen, but I'm not so sure about the availability of nitrogen. I should check out which other element can lock out nitrogen.

I'm coming back with pictures soon!

 

[Carcass]

I'm sure when you post up pics,the nute experts will step in to help...I'm real weak in the "deficiency resolution" area-I just don't have much experience in that area-Miracle Gro outdoors,and MegaCrop indoors have been good to me,so I've just never dealt with nute problems. (yet)
They don't really look too bad in the pics,but like you said- blurple-it can hide a multitude of evils.

 

[AliceGG]

Ok, before I go taking pictures, there's good news I guess.
I always dig up the top 2-3 inch of the soil with my fingers to move it around, and to get a feeling of how wet it is. Now I noticed that I can't do it anymore, because there are roots almost everywhere. Even close to the side of the pots too! I can dig up probably a half inch and my fingers get blocked by the roots. For me it means that a nice rootball is shaped down there. At least it's spread out evenly. And, surprisingly, it's not just the AK but it's the same situation with Jack too.
Now I'm taking some pictures and gicing them a good watering with ionised water, because both pots are as light as they never have been. I watered them 4 days ago, so it's a good sign too, they almost drank 2 gallons of water in only 4 days!

 

[Reave]

That’s calcium deficiency most likely without even seeing it.

 

[AliceGG]

I haven't added any calmag to them yet, but my tapwater has about 23-25Mg and 85-90mgCa per litre. I believe some of the nutes also contain a bit of calcium. Do you know it's not enough or it is just locked out?

 

[Pennywise]

I’m guessing not enough.

 

[Reave]

I don’t know but the damage sounds like not enough calcium. Could be locked out but led can be intense and some plants want more. I had one plant give me issues right till harvest.

 

[AliceGG]

A few pics:

So it's down there. Not one of the very oldest leaves, since it's a leaf of a sidebranch, but quite a few weeks old.

This is a closer look. It gets worse every day.

Now this is one of the first, oldest leaves. Not as yellow as the other one, but brown spots are visible.

And here's one with the light on. You can see that it's not in a shady area, it's almost entirely lightened.

 

[Reave]

Hmm. Looks like calcium still to me. Wait for one of the experts to get back to you though. If it was from the led it should have been higher up ones. At least that was my experience. Earlier in veg though that same plant had issues on more than one occasion.

 

[Pennywise]

Calcium is usually newer leaves, when i see older leaves with necrotic spots I’m thinking potassium

 

[Pennywise]

Or possibly Magnesium

 

[AliceGG]

So, I wrote a relatively long post about me thinking it might very well be potassium, since the NPK of the nutrients I gave had low P, only to realize that P stands for phosporus, and K is potassium...
As she got a fair amount of BioGrow, which is 4-3-6 and a lot of FishMix, which is 5-1-4, it might not be potassium.

After quickly reading this: How To Recognise, Prevent, And Treat Potassium Deficiency In Cannabis - RQS Blog and this Curing Magnesium Deficiency in Cannabis - RQS Blog, on potassium and magnesium deficiencies, I lean toward it might be Mg. I think 90mg Ca is quite a lot, so it's even possible that calcium is locking out magnesium here. It would have been the first time that I use ionised water, they always got tapwater with or without additional nutes so far, so there might be a lot of Ca down there. I mean 90mg is 90PPM, which sounds a lot, since it's a micro nutrient.

Now, what I'm going to do first is flushing, and then I have to get some magnesium, but not in a form of CalMag, because I don't want to add more calcium for the above mentioned reason. The question is, should I buy Epsom salt or should I order a specific Mg additive designed for plants, and wait for a few days for delivery?

The Royal Queen Seeds says the following:
Finally, we cannot finish without a word on Epsom salts. To be honest, recommending them would be cannabis quack-doctoring. Let’s just say it kind of works to treat a magnesium deficiency. Roughly as well as a 19th-century barber performing surgery.

But, I've been already advised to just simply use Epsom salt, if I ever encounter Mg def, and in fact, I've read a few occasions where Epsom salt perfectly cured the Mg def for growers.

It's well over midnight here, so I have to sleep now. Thanks for the help guys!
I'll come back with an update soon.

 

[Old Salt]

An excess of calcium blocks the uptake of potassium and magnesium (manganese too), so that's a possibility. Something @Emilya mentioned in another thread is that too high or low of a pH could cause nutrient uptake problems as well. She recommends varying the pH between limits.

Magnesium deficiencies take four to six week to show up, so that's on the table. So is an excess of calcium.

Can you remind us of the pH, substrate, and nutrient concentrations you are using? That should help identify the culprit.

 

[Pennywise]

Understand that calcium is usually considered a macro and at times is the second most used nutrient. Most cannabis strains have an insatiable need for calcium.