Icemud's Grow 4.0 - High Brix Focus with Gas Lamp Routine - V-Scrog

[Freeman1390]

Hay Ice I stumbled upon your journals while researching high brix..which i gotta say has me very interested but also very confused. I run a hydroponic garden and have been looking to combine high brix and hydroponics but cant find any solid information on the subject. As far as you know is there any way to combine the two? Or do you have to have soil.

 

[Icemud]

Hay Ice I stumbled upon your journals while researching high brix..which i gotta say has me very interested but also very confused. I run a hydroponic garden and have been looking to combine high brix and hydroponics but cant find any solid information on the subject. As far as you know is there any way to combine the two? Or do you have to have soil.

Hey Freeman, I am glad that you became a member here at 420 Magazine!! The reason you can't find much information on hydro and High brix...because there two different things. With high brix growing, were forgetting about the NPK that we are all used to and instead focusing on a perfect soil ratio, to enable the microlife to thrive and supply the nutrient ions and other goodies to the roots. With the addition of using key foliar feedings we are giving the right things to the plant to allow it to produce more sugars, which are sent to the roots to feed the microbes which increases the amount of available nutrients for the plant to uptake... High brix growing is like having an engine and putting a supercharger in it, you cant just put a supercharger on any engine and expect performance, however, you build the engine for performance, put the supercharger on, and watch it blow your mind.... Hydro using this analogy would be more like adding a NOS bottle to your engine..but not upgrading the parts...

Can you raise brix levels in hydro..I'm sure to a slight extent you could, but true high brix growing involves a soil medium in specific ratios, as well as the right foliar sprays at the right times...

Another reason you may not be able to find much on high brix growing... there really isn't much out their for information at all... we here at 420 mag have been experimenting with it based on the available knowledge, trial and error, and experimentation. There are a few people here doing high brix grows and definitely it is a better finished product

 

[mcloadie]

I don't know everything about it, but it seems to me that highbrix readings are the goal, no matter how you get em, the reading determines whether your brix program is working or not. I know organic gardeners that don't even know what a brix meter is, but I'm pretty sure by the health of their plants that they have pretty high readings, when I get my meter........this is a means of measuring what we know already. Healthy plants are good, maximizing genetic potential is the goal!

 

[Curso]

I don't know everything about it, but it seems to me that highbrix readings are the goal, no matter how you get em, the reading determines whether your brix program is working or not. I know organic gardeners that don't even know what a brix meter is, but I'm pretty sure by the health of their plants that they have pretty high readings, when I get my meter........this is a means of measuring what we know already. Healthy plants are good, maximizing genetic potential is the goal!

You're right to an extent, healthy plants =/= high brix plants. The reftactormetor is to measure the sugar level in the liquid, to achieve this like Ice said you have to foliar feed and have a purpose built soil and do things at the right time.

You might find some pretty disappointed organic farmers when you take measurements too. Brix is much more commonly used term in grapes used for wine (think about it we're growing seedless pods for resin) and micro farmers for fine dining restaurants.

 

[mcloadie]

You're right to an extent, healthy plants =/= high brix plants. The reftactormetor is to measure the sugar level in the liquid, to achieve this like Ice said you have to foliar feed and have a purpose built soil and do things at the right time.

You might find some pretty disappointed organic farmers when you take measurements too. Brix is much more commonly used term in grapes used for wine (think about it we're growing seedless pods for resin) and micro farmers for fine dining restaurants.

You HAVE to have?, and you HAVE to foliar feed? Research dosen't support that, I'm not smoking the soil....the plants where it's at, the soil gets it there....talk to milo shammas....he invented innoculating soil with mychos...you're high brix by the reading on the plant, theres more than one way to get it there....just comparing apples to apples. Farmers may be disappointed at they're readings....SOME. The vitners use it to measure sugar content to plan harvest, and peach farmers, and prune farmers, and rice farmers.....and sugar beet farmers. Cosantino wineries, napa valley.

 

[Curso]

You HAVE to have?, and you HAVE to foliar feed? Research dosen't support that, I'm not smoking the soil....the plants where it's at, the soil gets it there....talk to milo shammas....he invented innoculating soil with mychos...you're high brix by the reading on the plant, theres more than one way to get it there....just comparing apples to apples. Farmers may be disappointed at they're readings....SOME. The vitners use it to measure sugar content to plan harvest, and peach farmers, and prune farmers, and rice farmers.....and sugar beet farmers. Cosantino wineries, napa valley.

Okay this is totally not worth arguing over, however your previous post stated you didnt know. MY research states that foilar is a must have. Not just following what Doc does, I have done plenty of research on the subject and am a fairly resourceful guy. This is the easiest path.

You are also talking an acre + I'm talking about 20 plants.

 

[mcloadie]

Okay this is totally not worth arguing over, however your previous post stated you didnt know. MY research states that foilar is a must have. Not just following what Doc does, I have done plenty of research on the subject and am a fairly resourceful guy. This is the easiest path.

You are also talking an acre + I'm talking about 20 plants.

You are probably right, it is certainly the easiest way. I'm not arguing, I'm sharing the benefit of my research and formal education in horticulture. We can't discuss things? We can disagree too, I will always be able to gather worthy info from ANY conversation, and that's what I aim to do. I am here to grow. That's why I dont have that many dots, but call me on my facts.

 

[Curso]

I agree there are different paths to achieve what we are after. Read Dr. Carey Realms work on high brix, he's the godfather of it.

 

[Doc Bud]

You HAVE to have?, and you HAVE to foliar feed? Research dosen't support that, I'm not smoking the soil....the plants where it's at, the soil gets it there....talk to milo shammas....he invented innoculating soil with mychos...you're high brix by the reading on the plant, theres more than one way to get it there....just comparing apples to apples. Farmers may be disappointed at they're readings....SOME. The vitners use it to measure sugar content to plan harvest, and peach farmers, and prune farmers, and rice farmers.....and sugar beet farmers. Cosantino wineries, napa valley.

Research doesn't support what?

One thing about me....I'm all over research. I read boring studies from crop scientists and researchers almost every day. I'd love to see some research that shows how I don't have to foliar feed, as my grow would be even easier.

But alas, all the research I read says you MUST foliar feed to get the brix up. I'd sure like to see where I'm wrong, can you please share some of this research?

How are you getting your brix readings up?

For those who are new to HIgh Brix and are wondering about it, there are four bases to High Brix Soil and you need all four.

1.)Foundational minerals in the right ratio's in the soil. This means 7:1 Calmag ratio, 1:1 PK ratio, and total calcium at about 2000 lbs per 1000 sq feet.

2.)Soil biology. Gotta have it. Lots of it. And you gotta teach 'em to eat rocks, not sugar.
3.)Soil energy. Must exceed 200 microsiemens at all times. Different products will create soil energy in different ways.
4.)Trace elements. Everything must be present, in the right ratios, and sodium can't be too high.

This is the soil, and it's best to have a lab design it. Getting it right on your own is highly unlikely. I certainly tried and the soil testing made my efforts look stupid. But I thought I was very smart right up until I read the test.

The foliar feeding adds massive amounts of calcium and phosphorus to the plants, which use that to make sugars, which are sent down to the roots as root exudates. This is how the microbial population is fed. We don't feed them sugar water.....it's like fast food for them. The plant will give them the right kind of sugars in order to get the right kind of nutrition from them in return.

What this does is create a hyperactive soil biology that feeds the plant to the best of nature's ability.

Those of us who are using the program can attest to the incredible effect one single spraying has on the crop. It's nothing like homemade foliar sprays.....and certainly nothing like going without them.

So, I'm pretty much devoting the rest of my life to growing the best cannabis possible, and I'm searching out and reading research on all aspects of horticulture, soil science, crop science, even food processing!

But I haven't run across the research you speak of that says foliar feeding isn't required or how there's more ways to get there. Can you please point me in the direction of this research?

 

[mcloadie]

I agree there are different paths to achieve what we are after. Read Dr. Carey Realms work on high brix, he's the godfather of it.

Try taking a lower branch on a plant, meristemic tissue, cut it off, secure that cut off branch tip inside in a solution of say 50% sugar water, just like a cutting, avoiding an embolism, wait 24 hrs and take a brix reading.

 

[Doc Bud]

Try taking a lower branch on a plant, meristemic tissue, cut it off, secure that cut off branch tip inside in a solution of say 50% sugar water, just like a cutting, avoiding an embolism, wait 24 hrs and take a brix reading.

Meristematic tissue is at the growing apex of a branch. Are you saying to put meristematic tissue into a cup of simple syrup or are you saying to cut off a branch and stick the branch in a cup of water?

The meristem is the term that refers to the place in a plant where cell division is occuring and growth is happening. This happens on the tips of shoots, branches and roots and is often called the Apical Meristem.

Usually, a razor blade is used to nip off meristematic tissue and then a microscope is used to isolate it, for tissue culture purposes, etc. But you're saying to soak it in a cup of sugar water. I'm confused.

 

[mcloadie]

Research doesn't support what?

One thing about me....I'm all over research. I read boring studies from crop scientists and researchers almost every day. I'd love to see some research that shows how I don't have to foliar feed, as my grow would be even easier.

But alas, all the research I read says you MUST foliar feed to get the brix up. I'd sure like to see where I'm wrong, can you please share some of this research?

How are you getting your brix readings up?

For those who are new to HIgh Brix and are wondering about it, there are four bases to High Brix Soil and you need all four.

1.)Foundational minerals in the right ratio's in the soil. This means 7:1 Calmag ratio, 1:1 PK ratio, and total calcium at about 2000 lbs per 1000 sq feet.

2.)Soil biology. Gotta have it. Lots of it. And you gotta teach 'em to eat rocks, not sugar.
3.)Soil energy. Must exceed 200 microsiemens at all times. Different products will create soil energy in different ways.
4.)Trace elements. Everything must be present, in the right ratios, and sodium can't be too high.

This is the soil, and it's best to have a lab design it. Getting it right on your own is highly unlikely. I certainly tried and the soil testing made my efforts look stupid. But I thought I was very smart right up until I read the test.

The foliar feeding adds massive amounts of calcium and phosphorus to the plants, which use that to make sugars, which are sent down to the roots as root exudates. This is how the microbial population is fed. We don't feed them sugar water.....it's like fast food for them. The plant will give them the right kind of sugars in order to get the right kind of nutrition from them in return.

What this does is create a hyperactive soil biology that feeds the plant to the best of nature's ability.

Those of us who are using the program can attest to the incredible effect one single spraying has on the crop. It's nothing like homemade foliar sprays.....and certainly nothing like going without them.

So, I'm pretty much devoting the rest of my life to growing the best cannabis possible, and I'm searching out and reading research on all aspects of horticulture, soil science, crop science, even food processing!

But I haven't run across the research you speak of that says foliar feeding isn't required or how there's more ways to get there. Can you please point me in the direction of this research?

At some point we must agree that this can be acheived with different methods..." there is NO new thing under the sun" we are rediscovering things that have been rediscovered over and over. The research is common sense, what your soil is when you start will dictate what it needs to acheive these goals. High brix is very interesting to me, but no one has the secret patent on it, and man has been growing pure, healthy food since creation began. You can make aspirin out of a couch if you know what you're doing. ( I am NOT insinuating in any way you don't know what you're doing, on the contrary, I think you know exactly what you're doing ) + reps to you my freind!

 

[mcloadie]

Meristematic tissue is at the growing apex of a branch. Are you saying to put meristematic tissue into a cup of simple syrup or are you saying to cut off a branch and stick the branch in a cup of water?

The meristem is the term that refers to the place in a plant where cell division is occuring and growth is happening. This happens on the tips of shoots, branches and roots and is often called the Apical Meristem.

Usually, a razor blade is used to nip off meristematic tissue and then a microscope is used to isolate it, for tissue culture purposes, etc. But you're saying to soak it in a cup of sugar water. I'm confused.

You couldnt put the meristem in the solution if you cut it off and expect a reaction from the plant (?) , it's a technique used by folks who grow champion vegetables to raise the sugar content and stimulate growth, I was just wondering what kind of reading it would give you. Tissue culture is a whole different subject. I am may be a little rusty in my terminology, but I know what it ALL is and means.

 

[mcloadie]

Meristematic tissue is at the growing apex of a branch. Are you saying to put meristematic tissue into a cup of simple syrup or are you saying to cut off a branch and stick the branch in a cup of water?

The meristem is the term that refers to the place in a plant where cell division is occuring and growth is happening. This happens on the tips of shoots, branches and roots and is often called the Apical Meristem.

Usually, a razor blade is used to nip off meristematic tissue and then a microscope is used to isolate it, for tissue culture purposes, etc. But you're saying to soak it in a cup of sugar water. I'm confused.

Maybe I shoulda said apical meristem.

 

[Doc Bud]

At some point we must agree that this can be acheived with different methods..." there is NO new thing under the sun" we are rediscovering things that have been rediscovered over and over. The research is common sense, what your soil is when you start will dictate what it needs to acheive these goals. High brix is very interesting to me, but no one has the secret patent on it, and man has been growing pure, healthy food since creation began. You can make aspirin out of a couch if you know what you're doing. ( I am NOT insinuating in any way you don't know what you're doing, on the contrary, I think you know exactly what you're doing ) + reps to you my freind!

Certainly different ingredients might be used....soil is different all over the country, and each soil test dictates different amendments. But the end result is always the same: ratio's, biology, energy, minerals.

If you want to try Carbonized limestone as opposed to high calclum limestone, that's one thing. I've used both.

But if you're saying you can get there by ignoring the soil tests and using tradition, you're mistaken. Sure, you could get lucky and use the exact soil that will create high brix by adding a traditional recipe and foliar feeding with milk and honey.....but someone else might live in Florida, where their soil is sand. How are they supposed to get there with a traditional recipe that hails from the French countryside?

Different products can be used to create soil energy as well. I've used 3 from the lab now......and countless more that I made myself. So far, following the lab's instructions have given the best results.....the ratio thingie again.

High Brix is like airplane flight. There are all kinds of aircraft, with different air foils and wing shapes.....but they all have one thing in common:

The lift to drag ratio is such that the plane will fly. Bi-planes, delta wing, multihedral wings, transitioning airfoils.....all very different and exotic, but in the end, the math must be there in order to achieve flight.

Same with High Brix growing. We're not saying each and every grow is an identical clone. Not at all. We're saying that each grow must have the basic ratio's of elements in the soil that we have found necessary by research.

As I'm literally pioneering this method with cannabis, I have no idea at present how to arrive at different versions of high brix soil, other than to have different soils tested and consult with the lab about different ways to amend the soil.

One guy might use fishy ferts, another might use a guano extract. Both can achieve high brix in theory. The question is what achieves it in practice? That's what we're trying to find out.

And I'd love to see the research that shows foliar feeding isn't required! That would make my life Sooooooo much easier!

 

[Icemud]

Thank you everyone who has been active on my journal, and special thanks to Docbud for sharing the high brix knowledge. I am awaiting a flight so I can't respond with details and thought as normally I would. High brix is definitely a different way of growing than most are used to, so unless you have done countless weeks and months of research, its hard to get the concept.

DocBud stated it exactly as I have researched it, you need the 4 elements that he stated above. Without those key things, you may have healthy plants, but not nutrient dense/high brix plants. Yes there may be different solutions to high brix, but they still must have the 4 elements above. On my last grow I used what I had learned and applied it, making my own path but using the same directions and ended up with plants above 20 plus brix on my refractometer. I did not get a soil test, but when building my soil, still focused on aiming towards the ratios that Dr. Carry Reams suggests and foliar feeding with calcium and phosphorus. No matter how you look at high brix growing it still boils down to the 4 basic elements that Docbud described above and when I get back from my business trip I will be happy to share all of the saved pages/links that go into the scientific studies on how high brix crops are achieved. Doc has been kind enough to not only pay out of pocket for numerous soil tests but also has been in contact with the scientists that are helping forumlate this high brix growing. Everything he has said in his journals is correct as far as my individual research shows and even though I use his information to support my decisions, I do my own research and so far he is spot on.

Now again as I have stated many times, there is not much information on high brix growing and we are still experimenting with the best way's to achieve this, but still, it comes down to the 4 elements that docbud has posted.

As far as the statement above by myloadie..." High brix is very interesting to me, but no one has the secret patent on it, and man has been growing pure, healthy food since creation began." I want to say yes man has grown healthy food since we knew how to cultivate land but also in the last 50 years, our quality of produce is at an all time low. This is because of the use of chemical fertilizer salts and not using the living soil to feed the plants naturally and if you were to test an apple from 50 years ago, you would have to eat 3-5 apples today to match the nutrient density and nutritional value of the apple 50 years ago. We have to remember that nature has laid out the plan for us, and its up to us to tap into it and figure out how to work with nature, instead of against it. High brix growing is just that... I definitely want to be respectful of everyones opinions but I did want to point out the specifics of this comment.

Most gardening forums with a quick google search will flat out say hydroponics will NOT give nutrient dense foods and so I wanted to be clear that a healthy soil food web is needed to grow high brix, along with lots of rock dusts, foliar feeding of calcium and phosphorus, and the right soil ratios.

And yes, we can chemically make things with science that we were unable to fathom years ago, and when taking a look at all these solutions man has created to be similar to nature, nature still wins!

I appreciate all of you sharing your thoughts and ideas on my journal and also that everyone is agreeing/disagreeing with respect Thats why I love this forum and all of you guys and as a community, this is how we grow!!

 

[Doc Bud]

Thank you everyone who has been active on my journal, and special thanks to Docbud for sharing the high brix knowledge. I am awaiting a flight so I can't respond with details and thought as normally I would. High brix is definitely a different way of growing than most are used to, so unless you have done countless weeks and months of research, its hard to get the concept.

DocBud stated it exactly as I have researched it, you need the 4 elements that he stated above. Without those key things, you may have healthy plants, but not nutrient dense/high brix plants. Yes there may be different solutions to high brix, but they still must have the 4 elements above. On my last grow I used what I had learned and applied it, making my own path but using the same directions and ended up with plants above 20 plus brix on my refractometer. I did not get a soil test, but when building my soil, still focused on aiming towards the ratios that Dr. Carry Reams suggests and foliar feeding with calcium and phosphorus. No matter how you look at high brix growing it still boils down to the 4 basic elements that Docbud described above and when I get back from my business trip I will be happy to share all of the saved pages/links that go into the scientific studies on how high brix crops are achieved. Doc has been kind enough to not only pay out of pocket for numerous soil tests but also has been in contact with the scientists that are helping forumlate this high brix growing. Everything he has said in his journals is correct as far as my individual research shows and even though I use his information to support my decisions, I do my own research and so far he is spot on.

Now again as I have stated many times, there is not much information on high brix growing and we are still experimenting with the best way's to achieve this, but still, it comes down to the 4 elements that docbud has posted.

As far as the statement above by myloadie..." High brix is very interesting to me, but no one has the secret patent on it, and man has been growing pure, healthy food since creation began." I want to say yes man has grown healthy food since we knew how to cultivate land but also in the last 50 years, our quality of produce is at an all time low. This is because of the use of chemical fertilizer salts and not using the living soil to feed the plants naturally and if you were to test an apple from 50 years ago, you would have to eat 3-5 apples today to match the nutrient density and nutritional value of the apple 50 years ago. We have to remember that nature has laid out the plan for us, and its up to us to tap into it and figure out how to work with nature, instead of against it. High brix growing is just that... I definitely want to be respectful of everyones opinions but I did want to point out the specifics of this comment.

Most gardening forums with a quick google search will flat out say hydroponics will NOT give nutrient dense foods and so I wanted to be clear that a healthy soil food web is needed to grow high brix, along with lots of rock dusts, foliar feeding of calcium and phosphorus, and the right soil ratios.

And yes, we can chemically make things with science that we were unable to fathom years ago, and when taking a look at all these solutions man has created to be similar to nature, nature still wins!

I appreciate all of you sharing your thoughts and ideas on my journal and also that everyone is agreeing/disagreeing with respect Thats why I love this forum and all of you guys and as a community, this is how we grow!!

Bravo Ice!

 

[mcloadie]

I'd be very interested in those ice...bravo

 

[BigIrishDoode]

have a safe and pleasant trip ice! the harvest looks great! and im glad you are waiting on the rest, my blue dream came down couple days ago frosty beyond anything i have seen, cant wait to try it, yours looks like towers of joy cant wait to see them after your return

 

[mcloadie]

Bravo Ice!

The more I read, the more I see that the verdicts not in yet.