Oops Better Late Than Never 1st Time Grow Journal, Sort Of

[oopssteptinit]

Good question. pH pens are not perfect, ... but they do get close to actual values.

So, ... what I do for one feed ... is to add all my nutrients ... then pH up to 6.3.

Then, for the feed after that, I add all my nutrients ... then pH up to 6.8.

This way I am guaranteed to get excellent nutrient uptake by the roots.

The other thing I do for feeding is to make a light feed ... with all my nutrients ... about 250 ppm ... and use this as a supplement foliar feed.

I would never suggest foliar feeding without a TDS pen ... even if you are using FF Flowing Kiss ... it's too dangerous to foliar feed blind.

Knowing your ppm gives you feedback over time that you are feeding more and more nutrients to your plants as they grow. Also, you can have quantitative confidence that you are not overfeeding or underfeeding.

Thank you SQl, you made that simple enough that even I can understand it, which means that I can copy and paste this into the email to the missus explaining why there will be yet another amazon order forthcoming for a TDS pen. And, I have been catching up on your journal, looking good over there, by the way.
Thanks again!

 

[InTheShed]

I'd just like to say on the pH question for soil, that a well made soil does not require that your nutes be pH adjusted. I know it's outrageous claim after all we've been doing all these years, but good soil or ProMix will buffer the pH of the nute water. If you're interested you can read the thread I started on that subject here.

I stopped adjusting my pH about 6 months ago and my plants look great.

 

[SQl2kGuy]

I'd just like to say on the pH question for soil, that a well made soil does not require that your nutes be pH adjusted. I know it's outrageous claim after all we've been doing all these years, but good soil or ProMix will buffer the pH of the nute water. If you're interested you can read the thread I started on that subject here.

I stopped adjusting my pH about 6 months ago and my plants look great.

Thank-you very much for your input @InTheShed ... I have your link in my signature.

I use distilled ozonated water so 2d should not be an issue. I use FF nutes so likely 2b or 2c will apply.

I was under the impression that if I matched the pH of the nutrient solution to the soil there would be less swing.

I just find it hard to believe that the pH does not affect fungi or bacteria in the soil.

When I mix my nutes the pH is about 5.6 which is ideal for hydroponics ... and I will try not pHing up to 6.3 or 6.8 a few times and monitor the results.

I will continue to research this as well ...

 

[InTheShed]

Hydro, coco, and hempy all require nutes to be pH adjusted in the mid to high 5s. A well built soil or ProMix needs no pH adjustments. And with synthetic nutrients the bacteria in the soil is less of a concern, though those with completely organic grows never pH their water. They even brag about that!

 

[Alafornia]

Never pH my water. *brag*

 

[SQl2kGuy]

Hydro, coco, and hempy all require nutes to be pH adjusted in the mid to high 5s. A well built soil or ProMix needs no pH adjustments. And with synthetic nutrients the bacteria in the soil is less of a concern, though those with completely organic grows never pH their water. They even brag about that!

Thanks @InTheShed ... I'm still researching this.

I thought synthetic nutrients harm bacteria in the soil which is why I am interested in getting into completely organic soil grows with organic nutrients when my current line-up of nutrients runs out.

 

[SQl2kGuy]

Never pH my water. *brag*

Cool ... I will read through you grow journal again with this in mind.

We're on the path to being better growers!

 

[Alafornia]

I wish there were more to learn beyond humidity, water them, and don't screw with them.

 

[MaddHacker]

Here's some light reading material, in the name of learning...
..The Quadsquad Thread, A Community For Quadlining
Green days....

 

[oopssteptinit]

Sorry, was a long long outside chores day, today.

I'd just like to say on the pH question for soil, that a well made soil does not require that your nutes be pH adjusted. I know it's outrageous claim after all we've been doing all these years, but good soil or ProMix will buffer the pH of the nute water. If you're interested you can read the thread I started on that subject here.

I stopped adjusting my pH about 6 months ago and my plants look great.

Thanks @InTheShed , if this is the case, and I will be reading that link tonight, it would save me the headaches of knowing when to calibrate the PH pen. Been playing with it a couple days now, and it just isn't very consistent. Guess that it was I get for getting the $15 one. I am using the fox farm stuff and they recommend the ph values for their added nutes, but if the Happy Frog soil can buffer it, I'm in. I will be doing some reading for sure, thank you!

Thank-you very much for your input @InTheShed ... I have your link in my signature.

I use distilled ozonated water so 2d should not be an issue. I use FF nutes so likely 2b or 2c will apply.

I was under the impression that if I matched the pH of the nutrient solution to the soil there would be less swing.

I just find it hard to believe that the pH does not affect fungi or bacteria in the soil.

When I mix my nutes the pH is about 5.6 which is ideal for hydroponics ... and I will try not pHing up to 6.3 or 6.8 a few times and monitor the results.

I will continue to research this as well ...

Thanks @SQl2kGuy, looks like we both are going to be doing some reading..... Thanks for stopping in!

Never pH my water. *brag*

Hiya @Alafornia *bragger* Hopefully, if I can get this right in pea brain, maybe I'll be saying the same thing soon....Thanks for stopping in.

Here's some light reading material, in the name of learning...
..The Quadsquad Thread, A Community For Quadlining
Green days....

Howdy @MaddHacker thanks for stopping in, and thanks for the link, I guess one never stops learning about this medicine growth.

 

[oopssteptinit]

Ok, so I might have let this thing lag a bit. My PH pen hasn't, as of yet, been tossed out the back yard, but it is pretty darned close. Maybe, it's the pen, I don't know. But, when I get a variations of 6.0 to 7.5 on the same sample bowl, I begin to wander. So, I read a lot of links that you wonderful folks have given me. Arguments on Ph'ing, not PH'ing. Again, I am growing in Happy Frog soil. So, maybe because I chose to grow in their soil, I will follow their advise. However, when their advise makes me more nuts than I already am, is that a gain? Before I started worrying about the of the PH of the water, the girls were doing fine. Evidently, I read too much, which allowed me to start micro-managing what my girls were doing. I panicked, over acidized the soil and created a nutrient burn, which @Jdeck and @InTheShed both diagnosed almost immediately. So, evidently, I am making this a lot harder than it actually is. Or, am I wrong on this?

 

[Alafornia]

If you are in good soil you shouldn't have to pH the water.

If using one of the 3-n-1 testers they are junk. Get a moderately priced digital soil pH tester if you like.

I don't know anything about happy frog soil.

 

[oopssteptinit]

If you are in good soil you shouldn't have to pH the water.

If using one of the 3-n-1 testers they are junk. Get a moderately priced digital soil pH tester if you like.

I don't know anything about happy frog soil.

Hiya @Alafornia. Thanks for stopping in. By the way you have no idea how much I admire you for what you are doing for your family. I had shown the missus your first page in your journal and she was wowed by it as well......
yep, that is exactly what my first tester was: light, ph, and soil moisture meter bought from amazon at a highly reviewed, low price. Stick it in the soil, wait ten minutes and all your problems are solved. Well, I couldn't read the thing, unless I was standing on my head. If, I yanked it out of the pot, the meter would be back to zero by the time I got it within eye-shot. So then, I remember I had some old PH paper, and gave that a whirl, thinking that the water could be enhanced to the right PH. Nope, evidently I couldnt't see the difference in colors the way most could, I dumped three tspns of vinegar in a gallon of water to get the PH down to what, according colors was around 6.5. So, to confirm that, I ordered in a digital PH pen, calibrated it, tested the water which I had been adding the vinegar to and it was in 4.7 something range. But, by two days later, it couldn't give me a consistent reading on distilled water. Bout that time the seven hairs I had left in my head were starting to thin... @InTheShed led me to a link about soil buffering, you came along and said "I never PH". So, I guess what I am trying to say is: I over worry things! Thanks again Ala, and thanks for reading my babble.

 

[SQl2kGuy]

Ok, so I might have let this thing lag a bit. My PH pen hasn't, as of yet, been tossed out the back yard, but it is pretty darned close. Maybe, it's the pen, I don't know. But, when I get a variations of 6.0 to 7.5 on the same sample bowl, I begin to wander. So, I read a lot of links that you wonderful folks have given me. Arguments on Ph'ing, not PH'ing. Again, I am growing in Happy Frog soil. So, maybe because I chose to grow in their soil, I will follow their advise. However, when their advise makes me more nuts than I already am, is that a gain? Before I started worrying about the of the PH of the water, the girls were doing fine. Evidently, I read too much, which allowed me to start micro-managing what my girls were doing. I panicked, over acidized the soil and created a nutrient burn, which @Jdeck and @InTheShed both diagnosed almost immediately. So, evidently, I am making this a lot harder than it actually is. Or, am I wrong on this?

There are lots of different thoughts and research on this.

I use distilled water and concentrated nutrients so I track pH and ppm ... it works for me ... and I can't find any scientific evidence yet saying I shouldn't.

Happy Frog soil is organic ... so yes ... you want to support both slow uptake of nutrients by the micoorganisms ... and quick uptake of nutrients using inorganic nutrients and foliar feeds.

I use Ocean Forest so I supplement the soil with probiotics, bacteria and fungi to keep the soil healthy.

If you don't look after your soil, then it's likely a good idea to switch to coco or promix ... and you'll probably get a better yield.

 

[InTheShed]

If you are in good soil you shouldn't have to pH the water.

This. Exactly this. If you are using Happy Frog soil it should have the ingredients built into it that allow it to buffer the pH of your nutes. Plants do not directly take up the nute water in soil like they do in the hydro methods (DWC, coco, hempy) so the pH of your nutes has no effect on the pH of your soil. As it says in the Do We Need to pH thread, the pH of your soil depends on the alkalinity of your water and the type of nitrogen included in your nutes. It's the pH of the soil that matters to your plants, not the pH of the water.

 

[Alafornia]

Hiya @Alafornia. Thanks for stopping in. By the way you have no idea how much I admire you for what you are doing for your family. I had shown the missus your first page in your journal and she was wowed by it as well......
yep, that is exactly what my first tester was: light, ph, and soil moisture meter bought from amazon at a highly reviewed, low price. Stick it in the soil, wait ten minutes and all your problems are solved. Well, I couldn't read the thing, unless I was standing on my head. If, I yanked it out of the pot, the meter would be back to zero by the time I got it within eye-shot. So then, I remember I had some old PH paper, and gave that a whirl, thinking that the water could be enhanced to the right PH. Nope, evidently I couldnt't see the difference in colors the way most could, I dumped three tspns of vinegar in a gallon of water to get the PH down to what, according colors was around 6.5. So, to confirm that, I ordered in a digital PH pen, calibrated it, tested the water which I had been adding the vinegar to and it was in 4.7 something range. But, by two days later, it couldn't give me a consistent reading on distilled water. Bout that time the seven hairs I had left in my head were starting to thin... @InTheShed led me to a link about soil buffering, you came along and said "I never PH". So, I guess what I am trying to say is: I over worry things! Thanks again Ala, and thanks for reading my babble.

Pretty much my evolution from 3-n-1 to digital. I used it to test my super soil that I've yet to use, but the pH was in the right range so yay.

I am humbled by the support I've receive here at 420. A heartfelt "thank you" to you and Mrs Oops.

You're doing a fine job. Keep it up.

 

[SQl2kGuy]

This. Exactly this. If you are using Happy Frog soil it should have the ingredients built into it that allow it to buffer the pH of your nutes. Plants do not directly take up the nute water in soil like they do in the hydro methods (DWC, coco, hempy) so the pH of your nutes has no effect on the pH of your soil. As it says in the Do We Need to pH thread, the pH of your soil depends on the alkalinity of your water and the type of nitrogen included in your nutes. It's the pH of the soil that matters to your plants, not the pH of the water.

I will humbly disagree with you one last time ... and then simply agree to disagree ... and never discuss this again here.

I firmly believe the pH of the water can and does matter ... here's a snippet from an article ... and I'll just leave it at this:

Soils have the capacity to resist changes in pH, but there are instances where the water pH can cause changes. Both the soil and the water contain negatively and positively charged ions that influence the chemical composition and thus the pH of soil. Some soils are more resistant to change, while other types can change rapidly if the water pH is significantly different from the soil matrix.

In my opinion the pH of water will have an impact on soil ... and if I use a high pH or a low pH ... I will kill the micro-organisms in the soil ... and I will kill the roots. Also, if the pH of the water differs significantly from the pH of the soil, then the pH of the soil will be changed. I understand this as high school chemistry.

 

[InTheShed]

That's fine Sql! My post about pH refers specifically to pH'ing our nutrient water, so wouldn't apply to organic grows. Those of us using synthetic nutes aren't concerned with the bacterial activity in the soil to feed our plants.

And I did also say that the chemical composition of the water can raise or lower the pH of the soil, so we agree on that!

 

[oopssteptinit]

Again, sorry for not keeping up with this. Ya know how life has a way of just keeping you busy and next thing you know, it's been a day or two or seven before I come on here and post. The girls are looking good, of course, I was too pooped to go out and take some pictures. Thanks to those of you who have popped in to see how things are going. Will try to get some pictures and probably some more questions for you learned folks in the next day or so. Good evening all. Gonna go poke around 420 for awhile.

 

[Alafornia]

We all have those days. Rest up!