Waxy looking plant: what is causing this? Would love some input

[InTheShed]

closed containers vs open containers... yours is a greenhouse study presumably with large open containers of soil being used over and over again, and it bears very little resemblance to a 5 gallon plastic bucket of one or two use soil that is no need of "correction." Even though you can't see it, it's still apples and oranges

Presumably! At least you are willing to demonstrate how resistant you are to new information in an open forum.

Here's one from Cornell that shows you how much distilled water you need to use for a pour-through pH test in containers from 4-6" through 12qt. Still not small enough? They include flats as well!

https://www.css.cornell.edu/courses/260/Media testing.pdf

Oh wait, here's one with the heading: "The PourThru method is widely accepted for small containers, but does it translate
for larger containers? Purdue University researchers sought to find out."

https://www.canr.msu.edu/uploads/resources/pdfs/measuring_ph_and_ec_of_crops_grown_in_large_containers.pdf

They studied "1-, 3-, 5- and 10-gallon containers..."

But you'll have to trust me because you won't read those either!

 

[TorturedSoul]

I read the first .PDF link. For anyone worried that it'll occupy them for the next week, fear not! It's only nine pages .

I confess that I didn't follow the link in the .PDF to the further explanation of total alkalinity in one's source water, though. Had to go increase the total alkalinity of the water in my toilet bowl. Anyway, as always, thanks for the link. I appreciated the explanation of why pH does not equal alkalinity. I feel that this particular bit of knowledge would be useful to a great many cannabis gardeners (although I often fail to pay heed to it, myself). I also found interesting, the information about how some plants are more efficient at taking up iron, and can exhibit iron toxicity when the pH is below 6.0. Geraniums and marigolds were mentioned as examples of such plants. To be honest, I merely glanced at the article (will have to read it again, later). But I think I saw mention that this iron toxicity can be worse when conditions are cool and damp/wet. I never thought about temperature and dampness affecting something like that. So. Some plants are "iron-efficient," and it's best to have a lower pH. Other plants, according to the article, are less efficient at absorbing various micronutrients, especially iron and maganese. Petunia, snapdragon, and Caibrachoa were mentioned as examples - and the author stated that, because of this trait, the optimal pH was slightly higher (in the 6.0 to 6.5 range).

That caused me to wonder if cannabis is in the latter category and that's why the recommendation for pH in soil is what it is. It also has me wondering if the reason why the recommendation for pH in water (hydroponics) is lower... is because these micronutrients are generally more available in such an environment? I know that aerating a nutrient solution affects its pH, and I also know that (within the ranges of DO that us cannabis growers are likely to be able to attain in our nutrient solution), the higher the level of dissolved oxygen in the reservoir that the plant's roots are in, the more efficient a feeder that plant is.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that the article you posted the link to as a reference for what you were stating... has both increased my knowledge and caused me to think about other things. Which is the best kind of article, IMHO. Thanks, again .

I also assumed that the inference was of plants being grown "to completion," or at least for a somewhat lengthy period of time. But that would be almost all of them, wouldn't it? Plants in containers tend to stay in containers. One exception to this is "starter plants," like six tomato plants in a six-pack tray for $1.89 or whatever. But those have such tiny amounts of media (even in relation to the size of the plant) that they're generally rootbound when I get them. In such cases, I assume that the pH of the media is, more or less, not a consideration, and that it's the pH of the nutrient solution that they get hit with (sometimes multiple times per day) that's important. Other than that, however... The gardener who grows tomato plants (etc.) in containers, the person who has "house plants" in containers... they tend to keep them in those containers, unless and until the plants outgrow them (whereupon, they simply get transplanted into a larger container, as opposed to being planted in the backyard). Even, sometimes, plants for sale are like this. When I still had some money occasionally, and a vehicle, I'd make a yearly journey to a place a couple of states away, called Companion Plants. The plants are, obviously, for sale (mostly). But some of them sit there for quite a long time - he has over 600 different types of them, both common and exotic "including medicinal, culinary, ceremonial, aromatic, butterfly, fiber, and dye plants." It's an... interesting business to visit . I later learned that there's a website (companionplants dot com). But it was fun to go there in person, and I always ended up buying more than I meant to - and receiving more plants than I bought, when the owner was there. He told me that some of his mother plants were 10+ years old. I assume those were treated somewhat differently than "this year's cuttings" that were for sale in tiny temporary containers. IDK. That's where I got the iboza riparia, a pretty (IMHO) plant with little flowers, "furry" leaves, a heavy complex scent, and woody stems. It's a medicinal plant from Africa. It has been used traditionally to treat malaria, fever, headaches, and its leaves have antibacterial and anti-fungal properties, so a useful and pleasant plant to have. I was advised to keep it in my warmest room during Winter, because it didn't do well when it got cold. That plant grew like a monster under HPS, LMFAO, so I trimmed it mercilessly and planted it in my backyard - where it survived four years' Winters, snow, and 0°F nights. Then we had an extended cold (-13°F at night, 0°F to 10°F days) spell of a week or so, and it finally died. About a million miles of back roads (some of which are even paved) in the region, too, for people who like to drive across three counties without seeing a traffic light or LEO. I cannot swear that it's the same as it used to be, because it's been ten years or so since I last visited. But it used to be well worth the trip for someone who is interested in plants that they might not see at every big box department store or even most nurseries, and lives within a four-hour drive of Athens, Ohio.

Ramble... ramble.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Shiny waxy dark green leaves thinking I might be giving too much nitrogen or just too heavy of a feeding?

Your plant is too healthy.

 

[Jame9111]

What are you feeding her.
May i ask?

I'm currently feeding her a full line of general hydroponics floor series with all the add-ons it's like 13 bottles I think

 

[TorturedSoul]

I used to do that, too, plus the dry Rare Earth supplement (potent and nasty, you can kill a plant with it in a few hours, lol) and three KoolBloom Dry.

It produced great bud.

Last full grow I did with General Hydroponics, I used its cheap, dry, Maxi series (MaxiGro during the growth phase, MaxiBloom during the flowering phase). I also used Epsom salt that I got a four-pound sack of at the grocery store for five or six dollars. I used the "Ca+Mg" supplement a few times, but I have calcium in my water, and the Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, so I didn't really have any reason to. And I administered liquid KoolBloom (if I remember correctly) three times, and KoolBloom Dry about ten days before harvest.

That bud was just as good as the other. Cheaper, too. Way easier.

It all works. It's not what brand, or "series" you use, it's just giving your plants what they need. I used to suggest that people start their indoor cannabis gardening with GH Flora - and a big tub of water, IOW, DWC hydroponics. Basically, just a plant, water, and a simple set of nutrients (plus whatever the plant appears to need in addition to them, if anything). Observe the plant, monitor the reservoir - learn what's happening... and why. I learned about deep water culture in 1980, or thereabouts, from a very small book in my local library, published in 1972. It explained how to mix various dry elemental components, which seemed like a bit of work. My first actual DWC grow, years later, I let General Hydroponics do the heavy lifting. I had read somewhere that cannabis did well at a pH of around 5.8 to 5.9 in a hydronic environment. I remembered some of what I'd read when I was a kid. And that's about it. I... wasn't what would consider the most organized kind of person .

I ended up with 12 ounces of bud, and some tiny buds and "sparkly" leaves that I did an extract on with anhydrous acetone. Tasted like sausage and fish (fishy sausage?) for some reason, but it would f*ck your cookies UP.

I probably wouldn't have done so well, had I tried growing in soil. DWC has an "escape hatch." Oops? Dump, refill.

I did later do the soil thing. I encountered more problems than you have, heh.

 

[Jame9111]

I used to do that, too, plus the dry Rare Earth supplement (potent and nasty, you can kill a plant with it in a few hours, lol) and three KoolBloom Dry.

It produced great bud.

Last full grow I did with General Hydroponics, I used its cheap, dry, Maxi series (MaxiGro during the growth phase, MaxiBloom during the flowering phase). I also used Epsom salt that I got a four-pound sack of at the grocery store for five or six dollars. I used the "Ca+Mg" supplement a few times, but I have calcium in my water, and the Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate, so I didn't really have any reason to. And I administered liquid KoolBloom (if I remember correctly) three times, and KoolBloom Dry about ten days before harvest.

That bud was just as good as the other. Cheaper, too. Way easier.

It all works. It's not what brand, or "series" you use, it's just giving your plants what they need. I used to suggest that people start their indoor cannabis gardening with GH Flora - and a big tub of water, IOW, DWC hydroponics. Basically, just a plant, water, and a simple set of nutrients (plus whatever the plant appears to need in addition to them, if anything). Observe the plant, monitor the reservoir - learn what's happening... and why. I learned about deep water culture in 1980, or thereabouts, from a very small book in my local library, published in 1972. It explained how to mix various dry elemental components, which seemed like a bit of work. My first actual DWC grow, years later, I let General Hydroponics do the heavy lifting. I had read somewhere that cannabis did well at a pH of around 5.8 to 5.9 in a hydronic environment. I remembered some of what I'd read when I was a kid. And that's about it. I... wasn't what would consider the most organized kind of person .

I ended up with 12 ounces of bud, and some tiny buds and "sparkly" leaves that I did an extract on with anhydrous acetone. Tasted like sausage and fish (fishy sausage?) for some reason, but it would f*ck your cookies UP.

I probably wouldn't have done so well, had I tried growing in soil. DWC has an "escape hatch." Oops? Dump, refill.

I did later do the soil thing. I encountered more problems than you have, heh.

Yeah I just started introducing the ladies and liquid cool bloom drive will be roughly like you said 10 days 2 weeks at the end. This is tonight I'm thinking roughly a month to go couple weeks I'll start pulling up the scope

 

[Jame9111]

Yeah I just started introducing the ladies and liquid cool bloom drive will be roughly like you said 10 days 2 weeks at the end. This is tonight I'm thinking roughly a month to go couple weeks I'll start pulling up the scope

There's got to be a way to fat in these buds up though. I noticed every time I grow them tall I can't get them full

 

[cbdhemp808]

looks similar to some of the buds I've been producing.

 

[bluter]

There's got to be a way to fat in these buds up though. I noticed every time I grow them tall I can't get them full

that's more about light than anything

 

[Jame9111]

that's more about light than anything

I got them under good lights do you think overfeeding could stunt them

 

[bluter]

how old is the lamp ?

hps is great but the bulbs lose efficiency over time. i used to replace mine every couple grows. it also depends on how many lights you are running, the plant count, the grow space size, etc etc

i've been on led for over a decade now. it's almost hard to relate to how an hid grow works now.

 

[Jame9111]

how old is the lamp ?

hps is great but the bulbs lose efficiency over time. i used to replace mine every couple grows. it also depends on how many lights you are running, the plant count, the grow space size, etc etc

i've been on led for over a decade now. it's almost hard to relate to how an hid grow works now.

The one I just showed you is brand new not even a month old

 

[bluter]

The one I just showed you is brand new not even a month old

are you running it full up ?

your plants look good. you just lack experience. no one else would be fretting over what you have going. it's a bit heavy on n still, but it's gonna get a decent finish and your trichome development is fantastic.

 

[Jame9111]

are you running it full up ?

your plants look good. you just lack experience. no one else would be fretting over what you have going. it's a bit heavy on n still, but it's gonna get a decent finish and your trichome development is fantastic.

I hear you I will get there though. And that's what I was thinking heavy on the end and it's only got roughly another month I just want to not make the same mistake twice that new feature from general hydroponics is working better than my other one I think you're right before I just had too much stuff going on lol

 

[cbdhemp808]

There's got to be a way to fat in these buds up though

Holistically speaking, it boils down to the right amount of everything: light, nutrients, water, temperature, humidity, and growing medium. All my experience is with soil growing, so I speak in terms of soil mixture composition and micro-biome. Another important factor is the timing of the transition from veg to flower. Of course, genetics is also a major factor.

Here's a CBD plant I harvested recently that produced 6 oz and was grown in a 6 gal pot. Scroll down and you can see the trimmed bud size. These are the largest buds I've produced so far, and I know I can produce larger by continuing to adjust the factors I have control over, which are: nutrients, water, soil micro-biome, and the timing of flowering.

Pot size is also very important, and I think it's a bit more involved and crucial than a lot of people think. Speaking again in terms of growing in soil, it makes sense to me that the root zone is key to the production of big flowers. Light intensity is obviously also key, but as an outdoor greenhouse grower, that's not something I have much control over – I'm depending on the sun. My greenhouses are not in an open field with maximum solar exposure. They are surrounded by trees and vegetation.

One thing I need to work on in my grow is the timing of the "maxing out" of the pot. By that I mean the point at which the roots fill the pot and use up available nutrients in the soil. Of course, supplementing with nutrients during watering is a way to extend this limit, but my sense is that it's best to time this point of "maxing out" to coincide with the buds being ready to harvest – more or less. Stated another way, I need to transition my plants from veg to flower much sooner.

Lastly, a word about trichomes. Everything we are doing as growers boils down to trichome production, because that's where the cannabinoids and terpenes are produced and stored in the plant. So, a big bud with mediocre trichome production is nothing compared to a medium-sized bud with insane trichome production. If you'd like to see a great example of insane trichomes, have a look at @gwhunran 's hydroponic SCROG buds. What an awesome example of perfect lighting and nutrients, and all the life force going into the flowers. For a natural outdoor soil grower like me, it shows the upper bound of what's possible, and where to focus my attention.

 

[Jame9111]

I hear you I will get there though. And that's what I was thinking heavy on the end and it's only got roughly another month I just want to not make the same mistake twice that new feed chart from general hydroponics is working better than my other one I think you're right before I just had too much stuff going on lol

are you running it full up ?

your plants look good. you just lack experience. no one else would be fretting over what you have going. it's a bit heavy on n still, but it's gonna get a decent finish and your trichome development is fantastic.

Yes full half the time sometimes 400w I also have the Mars Hydro TSW 2000 in the 10 the 2X 4 x8 tent

 

[Papa OG]

There's got to be a way to fat in these buds up though. I noticed every time I grow them tall I can't get them full

looks similar to some of the buds I've been producing.

I don't understand how so many of you get such small buds or plants.

This is auto gsc.

All averaging 40+ inches

 

[cbdhemp808]

I don't understand how so many of you get such small buds or plants.

This is auto gsc.

All averaging 40+ inches

Hey @OGpapa! 40" long colas? wow... I'd like to see a photo of the whole plant. Big colas are typical for autos, yes?

I'm growing outdoors in greenhouses, photo plants, relying on the sun. We are in Hawaii and have been having lots of rain, so the solar exposure hasn't been the greatest. My greenhouses are also surrounded by trees and vegetation. But I'm happy with my results... always looking for ways to improve. I harvested this CBD plant in mid June, and got about 6 oz – not bad for a 6 gal pot.

 

[Papa OG]

40" cola would be amazing. I just have a some average height plants. Nothing micro that many have. Never been an auto guy, this is my first. Experimental

Life on the island! Exciting

Have a cousin on kona.

I hear it's always beautiful. But the weather changes quick. Sounds like your set up! How long is your typical season?

Hey @OGpapa! 40" long colas? wow... I'd like to see a photo of the whole plant. Big colas are typical for autos, yes?

 

[cbdhemp808]

40" cola would be amazing. I just have a some average height plants. Nothing micro that many have. Never been an auto guy, this is my first. Experimental

Life on the island! Exciting

Have a cousin on kona.

I hear it's always beautiful. But the weather changes quick. Sounds like your set up! How long is your typical season?

haha... I thought you meant the buds were 40"... OK, so 40" tall auto plants... 3.3ft.

Our typical season is year round ... plants will flower year round, because our night length is never less than about 10.5 hours. Most cannabis will start flowering at 10-10.5 hours of night. I grow in greenhouses, and my veg house is on "night interruption" lighting, to control flowering... works great.