ClosetCase420's - RDWC - 600W MH/HPS - Aurora Indica - Grow Journal - 2016

[Far East Buds]

Sorry for disappearing; discouraged at the lack of response from the last post. I would like to finish this out so please move back to journals in progress if you don't mind.

The Aurora Indica is now in week 7 of flower and unfortunately I have been less than thrilled with this grow.

The buds never seemed to really swell up and I'm not sure why.

Here are a few pictures of the current state..

I've been using the same regiment that I used for my Wonder Woman grow which yielded just under 9 oz. Judging by the size of these buds I think I'll be lucky to yield 2-3 oz.

FG = FloraGro
FM = FloraMicro
FB = FloraBloom
FN = FloraNectar

I know the plants are curling up at the edges so I'm sure there is some type of deficiency now but is it to late to fix?

Don't be discouraged at people not posting. Yes it feels strange when people don't post you feel like you are talking to a wall. But really you are not. I am subbed to around 50 threads and I don't respond to all of them and some I never have. Sometimes I post and get just a few likes. The same post posted to my blog will get 150 views. So people do read them but you may never know.
I decided awhile ago that I just throw something up no later than weekly so people stay into your grow, and just be happy with it as a record of your trials and tribulations. If you ask for help I usually won't answer right off in hopes of people more knowledgeable will.. But I try to if noone does after a few days.. usually with a disclaimer of my noobism. PM me if you need answers I will be willing to do my best.

But I will say the more you post on others threads you will gain more followers yourself.



FE

 

[Far East Buds]

I agree with VI looks like heat..poor air circulation.. hotspots or just all hot. The curls won't go away as I found out last grow. Just try to correct it.



FE

 

[closetcase420]

Thanks FE.. I'll make sure I stay up to date with my new AK47 grow

I turned the light down to 50% this morning and I'll keep the cabinet door open while the lights are on..

I'm going to my local hydro tomorrow to see if they sell organic tea.. if nothing else I'll start gathering the products I need for the tea..

 

[Far East Buds]

I am running live in my res but use it as an added thing... I do my regular stuff with my feedings.. cal mag... silica etc. Then every once in awhile I throw in some beneficial s. I buy it i don't brew it myself. Someday I will but I wanted to just run simple and found just hydro store bennies although expensive.. last me quite some time with my methods. No plug for them but i run SOS, Hygrozyme,and GreatWhite but realized the GW should be replaced by orca really for hydro..if not mix GW well. I will use a thing called photosynthesis plus once my GW is used up. Atleast as per a recommendation.

This gives my res a really good batch once in awhile to fight off bad stuff. Making your own would cost a fraction as VI does but you can get great results with the "over the counter" stuff.

Good luck with it





FE

 

[closetcase420]

I took the list of items in your tea mix to my local hydro store and they had none of this in stock nor did they have any
pre-made tea. They did offer to order me Botanicare Pure Blend Tea but it would not be in store until Thursday.

With that being said is brand required? Do I need to get the same EWC, alfalfa, crab meal etc as the list
or does any EWC, alfalfa, crab meal etc work? I can order everything from your list online but if I can
support the local hydro by ordering local I will do that.

My shopping list.

Worm Casting Humisoil (16qt) - 29.00 -

ful-power fulvic acid (1qt) - 17.13 - [

alfalfa by down to earth (5lb) - 9.99 -

crab meal by down to earth (5lb) - 6.25 - Down To Earth Crab Meal 4-3-
Indensian Bat Guano - 11.95 -

Alaska Pure Kelp Plant Food - 10.00 - Alaska Pennington 32 oz. Pure Kelp Plant Food-19476 - The Home Depot
Aphrodites extraction (1qt) - 21.59 -

Hygrozyme - 28.95 -

Oatmeal (what is this?)

If I should order exactly the same brands you listed does my above shopping list sound correct?

 

[closetcase420]

Also forgot I stopped at Home Depot and they have Dr Earth Home Grown Tomato Vegetable and Herb Fertalizer which I was wondering if I can use to brew the tea.

Home Grown(R) | Doctor Earth

 

[Far East Buds]

VI questions...

 

[Papageno]

Long Day...gotta run to airport. I'll get back asap.


Brand don't matter just get good stuff, quality does. when you buy the ingredients it is so cheap do yourself a favor.

All the ingredients I use are on amazon. you can order all of them somewhere online not amazon.

You don't need it all... get what you can. The crab meal is only a bloom booster you don't need. it just makes crazy big flowers but is easy to screw up too so not important for now.

If your Hydro store doesn't carry Hygrozyme (the enzyme product I use so that was on the list) then you need to find a new hydro store...sorry.

Gotta run

That stuff above looks great. I would use that stuff in a heart beat. EWC is cheap too. Oh yeah if your hydro store aint got EWC...well heres yer sign....

Ciao

 

[Papageno]

Okay after getting a good look at the bag I am going to go get some for my next grow and see how best to use it. It is fairly redundant overkill with most of my stuff except the fungi. There is a great diversification there, much more then most cannabis products. If the price is right that may be worth it just for those spores. So I will have to figure out the right way to supplement that without burn cause I aint stopping the tea. I bet that stuff would be great instead of the tea for the beginning when I want to get the soil going but don't want to add tea yet.

My shopping list.

Worm Casting Humisoil (16qt) - 29.00 - Amazon.com : Humisoil Natural Humus (16qt) : Patio, Lawn & Garden
ful-power fulvic acid (1qt) - 17.13 - Amazon.com : BioAg Ful-Power Plant Nutrient, 1 quart : Gardening Tools And Accessories : Patio, Lawn & Garden
alfalfa by down to earth (5lb) - 9.99 - Amazon.com : Down To Earth Natural Alfalfa Meal 2.5-.5-2.5 Fertilizer - 25 pounds. : Patio, Lawn & Garden
crab meal by down to earth (5lb) - 6.25 - Down To Earth Crab Meal 4-3-
Indensian Bat Guano - 11.95 - Amazon.com : Sunleaves Indonesian Bat Guano, 2.2 Pound : Patio, Lawn & Garden
Alaska Pure Kelp Plant Food - 10.00
Aphrodites extraction (1qt) - 21.59
Hygrozyme - 28.95

If I should order exactly the same brands you listed does my above shopping list sound corre

Now lets talk about these a bit. These are your new friends.

Worm Casting Humisoil

Wrong...these are two different things. I know I was lazy and left out some of the stuff that to me is obvious. I should have made it a bit more newb friendly.

EWC is one thing. The link there goes to Humis soil. That is something else. That is the raw deal bad to the bone stuff. Precious earth. Full of tons of highly concentrated nutes and microbes.

EWC is something else. That you should get local. It is made everywhere. Any good nursery around should have some give a call. The EWC is full of primarily Nitrogen so is good for all stages of growth. it is the base of this tea . The bacteria from the worms is the stuff we are trying to breed that do all the magic! (the Humis soil has a bunch too...but that is our secret)

The Fulvic Acid is very expensive and not needed. It is just one of those supper secret additives that kicks it up a notch. It helps make things like Advanced Nutrients lines "special". It makes for increased uptake. It is highly refined humic acid and is actually used in people to help with all sorts of problems as well as plants. Supper Expensive to process it out correctly and most people cheat and make garbage and sell it as fulvic acid. This is the only brand I trust. Not needed. Some people dump it in with every top off. I would rather push the nutes instead as this stuff is spendy. You don't need it but will like it.

Alfalfa...Look it up...Know since forever as an all around awesome Micro nutrient source for all flowering plants. If it makes flowers it does better with alfalfa in the soil.

Crab meal - Not needed but supper fun and dangerous to play with. Used correctly (which varies by strain), Will cause the plants immune system to kick into overdrive. This has many great impacts since the plant is not actually infected with any disease. It just ends up making the plant think it is infected with insects and the plant builds huge fat flowers to insure offspring and lots of resin to make it in hospital. Many other great benefits. When Overdone it can cause all kinds of serious problems. I just handed you a loaded shotgun.

Bat Guano - That is your Phos. Use that in bloom...depends how you roll you may not need it in veg. Also side benefit... it is poop...it has some more bacteria. Actually need I say just about each of these components is multifaceted?

Atlantic Sea Kelp - Another one of those miracle things is a special type of Atlantic kelp that helps in both people and plants. Supper rich in tons of nutrients as it bathes in the ocean soaking it all up. Commonly called "Ascophyllum nodosum" (you see that on the sides of tons of bottles)

"Ascophyllum nodosum seaweed, Organic Kelp.... is an excellent source of micronutrients and beneficial plant growth promoters. Contains over 60 naturally-chelated minerals and essential elements that the fast-growing sea plant absorbs from the cold, nutrient-rich waters of the North Atlantic."

There are many ways to get it. That stuff at the depot is cheap and great... it stains...be careful.

Aphrodites extraction - that is a broken down molasses. You can use cheapo molasses but I can never get as good a brew doing it. I use both as it help to make it cheaper to cut the Aphrodites extraction with some molasses. But if I really want it to go and go now I need to give it the stuff that is already broken down. You don't need it but it is better. Also when Molasses is broken down you get great amino acids that help with uptake.


Hygrozyme - any good enzyme will do. That helps break down all the plant matter.

Oatmeal (what is this?)

No seriously...breakfast oatmeal. I use steel cut becasue i have them but rolled would be better. I have even used those packets of the instant stuff but not with the flavors. just plain. Doesn't have to be quick oats its gonna sit for 2 days. Aids in a lot of ways. Some claim you get your beneficial fungi this way. Actually breaks down to a bunch of stuff but also is food for the mix.

So ass you go you are going to add the Silica Potash to help kill off the bad bacteria and bring up the good bacteria . Just use that silica blast it should work. Just about all Silica treatments are highly Alkaline and will bring it back to 7 when it starts to tank (we will talk about that later). That gets you your Potassium.

So there is all three majors and tons of minors with a but load of microbes... But wait there's more.


I have Azomite laying about as I use it in my soil. You wont have it but I can throw that in.

I also throw in some of my compost pile with is scientifically formulated to have everything and a pile of microbes. (including things like Calcium and Magnesium).


Yeah that about does it. That gets a plant through the grow just fine all made in a bucket for next to nuthin.

 

[closetcase420]

Wrong...these are two different things. I know I was lazy and left out some of the stuff that to me is obvious. I should have made it a bit more newb friendly.

Every reply to me should be newb friendly

1) In regards to the Dr Earth Fertilizer, just making sure I understand that you may eventually look into incorporating this product into your tea but it will not replace the tea. For my grows (flowering Aurora) and (vegging AK47) you do not recommend this at this time? Is that correct? Also on that note they have a Bud and Bloom fert as well..

2) It's $25.00 for a quart of BioAg Ful-Power at WalMart, how long would that quart last? Is a quart enough or should I invest in more up front?

3) I will purchase EWC at the local hydro store, is all EWC essentially the same?

4) I will order the Humis Soil, alfalfa, crab meal, and bat guano online. Should I pick up the 25lb bags I see in your pictures or are the 5lb bags enough? I'm not sure how much of this I'm going to be using?

The Atlantic Sea Kelp I can pick up at Home Depot.

5) I have Hi-Brix Molasses from Earth Juice, is this already broken down or should I invest in the Aphrodites extraction?

6) Is Hygrozyme the Sipco Hygrozyme I see on Amazon? I can order this online if the local shop doesn't have it.

7) What is the difference between steel cut and rolled oatmeal? How do I know which is which?

8) Why these products vs the products listed in the original teabag your DWC thread. Image below..

 

[Papageno]

you do not recommend this at this time?

I never used it. I can't recommend it. There are many ways that may be applied. I have no idea what the best way is for that product. I assume it is granular? I have not idea. What I am saying is the next time I grow I will look for that and test it out and see if I can make good use of it without causing trouble. In my case it is very redundant and I have a tendency to add too much as is.

how long would that quart last?

In tea only a quart will do. You don't use much, like 40 ml per tea run or so. I use it sparingly. But some people dump that in the res like it is Franks red hot sauce.

is all EWC essentially the same?

Well yes I guess. I am sure there is some garbage out there and I guarantee someone thinks they bag poop better then others...but it should all be the same. You just want to find a supply source that is going through it regular so you are dealing with fresh stuff. Usually a good indoor grow store has fresh EWC.



#4: No get the smaller bags and those will last forever. I haven't put a dent in them. The Bat guano you will go through in a few grows. That stuff is spendy and not environmentally friendly to use so I use it sparingly.

#5: you sugars should be great! I suggest getting a $6 jar of molasses at the grocery store to play with and supplement.

#6: Hygrozyme is one brand name that is just like the oldest one been around forever. everyone now makes and enzyme product as they get used in so many ways. Advanced Nutrients calls theirs Sensizyme. Anything with Zyme in the name is what we are looking for. All grow shop gotta have something as all decent nute makers produce something.

#7 Oatmeal...if you don't know what steel cut is then don't worry about it. At the grocery store just get the cheapest oatmeal on the shelf. It will be the right kind. The steel cut is fancy crap for "people" that is more healthy... I was just pointing out it is okay to use that if you have it.

#8 : You can use their recipe if you want. It will work great for you. I made a recipe and it keeps growing and getting more and more complex. Right now it is a complete food with everything a plant needs when done correctly including bloom enhancers.

A lot of things can be removed if all you want are the microbes. If all you want is the microbes then you can just buy that store bought stuff like Orca and go for it. The recipe I use is a complete plant food plus.

People sell stuff way less useful then that for a lot of money in the hydro game.

 

[closetcase420]

So this is an interesting choice then..

I have the blooming Aurora Indica which I'm feeding GH G-M-B and supplements and I have the early vegging AK47 which I'm feeding the Sensi Grow A/B.

I wonder if I should brew the tea and use it as a full replacement for the Aurora Indica or if I should just stay the path with my current regimen and use a weaker tea as supplement for the AK47.

What would you do?

 

[Papageno]

Well all plants do better with some tea...that is just science!!! LOL

But if you have been using the Hydroguard religiously and feeding a full program then you may not see a huge difference. Right? This is a replacement for everything. Since you are doing things correctly then you may not see a huge difference unless you added the bloom boosters and ran up the PPM so it just explodes on you.


When you make it there will be too much. You can make it for the Aurora and then use excess on the baby. The baby wont need it for weeks. The adult is ready for it now.

 

[closetcase420]

Update: Day 48 Flower

5/15 6.1 560
5/16 6.0 550
5/17 5.9 720 wow that spiked.. I did a major de-foliage today but that is not cause.

I already said in the other thread but I'm doing to start gathering the ingredients required for the tea and I'll start making it immediately for this grow.

I have not used Hydro Guard at all on this plant. I have a sealed bottle that I never really understood what it was used for. I'm still not really sure but I get that it's a bunch of good stuff that will help the roots structure so I'll start using it while I'm brewing the tea..

So here is my next question In about a week I'm going away for a week, timing right.. If I can brew the tea should I give it to the plants even though I will not be around to monitor it?

 

[Papageno]

If I told you once I told you a thousand times read the bottle and google ingredients you don't understand LOL

Hydroguard(R)

the highly concentrated and pure culture of Bacillus bacteria contained in Hydroguard rapidly colonize

Now understand the bacteria do a lot of things. First thing they are going to do is go clean the roots. Just like those little fish that hang onto sharks and clean their gills...these microbes get into the roots and clean them and make them work better. Your uptake will immediately jump and so will the weight.

You can buy over the counter bacteria like Orca or Hydroguard. The Hydroguard is just the bacteria as I understand it. The Orca is that plus fungi. (the fungi live in the roots).

The whole point here is you can buy everything in many bottles which is convenient. But like anything when you make it yourself and it is fresh it is way better. You can (only if you want to) put everything a plant needs into one bucket and brew it yes. That said there are things you will want to apply maybe more or less depending on the situation.

So each one of those bottle you posted are for something. (don't answer this) Can you explain why you are using each? If not then research why each is important.


There are things you may choose to eliminate from the brew becasue you want to apply it differently. Hey man that is groovy too.


But this always gets lot in the explanation but it is in the name. "EWC Compost Tea" Right?

Everyone knows what and how a compost pile works and that is just a man made faster paced version of how nature makes soil. Plants grow in a living soil made from natures compost and that has everything and plants grow just fine. This is a compost tea. This is taking compost and soaking it in water and sucking out all the goodness and leaving behind the dead remnants and pouring all the nutes and microbes from the pile into the plants. This is like tapping the garden of Eden for plants.

Hydrogurad and Orca will clean up roots and the res.

 

[closetcase420]

Ok.. I've been trying to do some more searching and reading...

Silica Blast
In hydroponic applications, the most common form of Silicon additive is Potassium Silicate which is a beneficial supplement for your plants; one that will make them bigger, stronger, more resilient to pests and disease and capable of yielding more. period.

- I understand Silica, it is completely different than any of the beneficial nutrients, almost a standalone part C of the feeding schedule.


CalMag
Cal-Mag is only needed for certain situations, and there’s no reason to add extra Cal-Mag if you’re not actually trying to fix something. This isn’t a “supplement” that will make your plants grow faster. It’s only useful in preventing nutrient deficiencies. That being said, a lot of cannabis growers include Cal-Mag in every grow.

- Why is that? If it is only needed to help resolve deficiencies why use it all the time?


Orca is a concentrated LIQUID mycorrhizal and beneficial bacteria product which brings together 4 highly effective endo mycorrhizal species with 14 super effective bacteria strains.
Endomycorrhiza
Glomus intraradices – 17 propagules per mL
Glomus mosseae – 17 props per mL
Glomus etunicatum – 17 props per mL
Glomus aggregatum – 17 props per mL
Bacteria
Azotobacter chroococcum – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Bacillus subtilis – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Bacillus licheniformis – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Bacillus azotoformans – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Bacillus megaterium – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Bacillus coagulans – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Bacillus pumilus – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Bacillus thuringiensis – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Bacillus amyloliquefaciens – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Paenibacillus durum – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Paenibacillus polymyxa – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Saccharomyces cerevisiae – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Pseudomonas aureofaciens – 24,960 CFU’s per mL
Pseudomonas fluorescens – 24,960 CFU’s per mL


HydroGuard is a beneficial bacteria product; specifically Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens which was selected specifically for its superior ability to enhance the symbiotic relationship between the roots and their surrounding medium. The Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens in Hydroguard live in bigger, more vigorous colonies than the more common Bacillus Subtillis species. This enables them to thrive and perform more effectively in extreme and unfavorable conditions.

- So the Orca and HydroGyard are both beneficial bacteria products but Orca is way more diverse? Is the HydroGuard more potent then? I see no problem running the two of them together.


FloraLicious Plus..
Packed with powerful seaweed extracts, carbon-building blocks and aromatic oils, Floralicious Plus enhances colors and aromatic qualities.
Ingredients: Vegetable protein hydrolysate and potassium sulphate.
Also contains non-plant food ingredients:
2% Humic acids derived from micronized leonardite.
20% Sea kelp derived from Ascophyllum nodosum.

- I'm assuming the real benefit is the humic acid. Is the sea kelp full of micronutrients? This is the one I'm most confused with of the supplements, how is it different than the others?

 

[Papageno]

Why is that? If it is only needed to help resolve deficiencies why use it all the time?

That is not a correct way to think of it. Calcium and Magnesium are 2 of many trace minerals the plants need. That is all there is to it. Now most peoples taps come with enough for the plants so usually you don't need to add more. Many people Filter their water and all that goes away so you have to add it back. Many companies include some in the base product line. But like any trace mineral if it is missing the plant will show it.

I'm assuming the real benefit is the humic acid. Is the sea kelp full of micronutrients? This is the one I'm most confused with of the supplements, how is it different than the others?

So that gets to the heart of how these brands differ and how they lock you in. They combine different things so that to get the complete thing you have to use there line you can't just use part. you mix with someone else and you over do something. So like how I combine everything into one bucket they are combining some things there. Different things then other brands so they are not compatible even though they could be. That is basically a high end version of the seaweed stuff you bought at the Depot. The stuff from Lilly miller called Alaska. This Floricious plus is mainly the kelp plus a bunch of good stuff and yes the humic acid is working like your fulvic acid. Only that Fulvic acid you bought is way better. They probably are using more kelp so it is of higher concentration but it also probably costs a bunch more.

 

[closetcase420]

That all makes a lot of sense now.. Is there a chart that shows how much P K and N a plant should have at each stage of its life?

Update..

5/18 5.1 1250

5/19 water change
(followed directions on each bottle)
150ml FG,FM, FB (1-1-1)
30ml HG
10ml Orca
15ml FP
45ml CM
45ml SB
3 tsp LKB
6.0 1880
this is obviously way to high PPM
filled 2/3 tank with this, 1/3 with straight tap water
current 6.0 1280

5/20 5.8 1190 interesting that PPM dropped, plant uptake?
5/21 5.2 1240 fill the res with tap water since I'll be gone for 1 week.

some updated photos

 

[Papageno]

Looking Great!


The ratio of nutes is kinda what each one says they figured out best but in reality it is not that precise. There is a wide range that is acceptable. There are many pants that have specially derived ratios and really that is what all he marketing is about but they plants can handle a a lot of variation.

 

[closetcase420]

I have returned, 7 days with no interaction and the plants were fine. The water uptake was only about 2/3 of the res which shows me they really are not taking in water anymore. I dumped the res and filled it with plain tap water. My intention is to let them sit for a week in tap water and then cut them to hang and dry.

On that note I do have a question of can you do this? Right now the buds above the 2nd scrog are all starting to dry out and they look ready. There are a ton of decently sized buds between the first and second scrog that could probably use another week of direct lighting. Can I cut off the growth above the second scrog and then leave the rest of the plant to sit for another week or so? Is that possible? Is it feasible? Is it worth it?