Delps 8 Hydro RDWC Gelato Autoflower 2021

[Rexer]

Hey Delps

Sorry to hear you're having some problems- can you upload a picture?

 

[Delps8]

Rexer - howdy.

These are from Mary, a plant that was not initially impacted. The names of the pictures are date time stamps.
This res is a day old, and I'm at 7 ml/gallon vs the recommended 3-5 ml/gallon. pH was 5.7 at 1600± yesterday, rose to 6.2 at 0900 today and was down to 5.7 by noon.
I lowered the TDS to 290/500 and 5.8. A few minutes ago, pH dropped from 5.8 to 5.7.

A pix of Jeff's roots. I checked the roots again and the dark coloration is not slick and cannot be removed by rubbing between my fingers.

Two pix below are from today. One from 1347, the other from 1552. The color's a bit off - I normally retouch them a bit but, in this case, didn't do so because I didn't want to change the image.

 

[Delps8]

If pH drops again, I'll swap out some more nutes. I'm at 290 now but I gotta accept that the proper level isn't a number that looks nice to me.

 

[Delps8]

Rexer:

Interesting thread here. Could this be too much CM?

The plants that were initially impacted were the younger pair of plants. I upped the CM from 2 ml/gallon to 4 and no more leaves were damaged but it appeared that the damaged leaves showed more of the same symptom. After the res swap, the other two, older plants are now involved. Recommended CM level is 3-5ml/gallon - I've boosted that to 5 ml/gallon. TDS has been dropped to 290/500 - a low level even for autos.

 

[Rexer]

Try this for your next targets,

Rexer:

Interesting thread Could this be too much CM?

The plants that were initially impacted were the younger pair of plants. I upped the CM from 2 ml/gallon to 4 and no more leaves were damaged but it appeared that the damaged leaves showed more of the same symptom. After the res swap, the other two, older plants are now involved. Recommended CM level is 3-5ml/gallon - I've boosted that to 5 ml/gallon. TDS has been dropped to 290/500 - a low level even for autos.

Careful on the linking to outside.

But based on age of the plant, my guesstimate would be a starting point of 100 PPM of cal mag as a base. From there I'd add in your nutes with a total target PPM of around 600

You have hydroguard or Orca? Or some other Bacillus bacteria?

 

[cjsbabygirl313]

You have hydroguard or Orca? Or some other Bacillus bacteria?

What Rexer said! Hydroguard and +life saved my first grow! Was having wild ph swings, root issues, slow growth, etc.

 

[Delps8]

"Careful on the linking to outside."
Will do.

I'm using Hydroguard.

Here's the feed sheet that I used:

I added a total of 16 ml which, effectively, bumped my CM to 94 PPM ( (67.2/5)*7 ) so that's in the ballpark of the number that you're recommending.

Re. TDS - why 600? My GG autos maxed out at around 500.

 

[Rexer]

Ahh my apologies I missed the hydroguard in the excel sheet- I always forget and love how organized you are.
If you have her feed at a level that she's feeding at I'd say go for it (stick with what you know or are doing).

But while it's good to remember what you had for a previous maximum PPM, each plant and strain is different. Ive had some hit 1200 PPM, and others average around 800 PPM.
I think once you get the cal mag issue sorted, you're going to have a hungry plant.

 

[Delps8]

Ahh my apologies I missed the hydroguard in the excel sheet- I always forget and love how organized you are.
If you have her feed at a level that she's feeding at I'd say go for it (stick with what you know or are doing).

But while it's good to remember what you had for a previous maximum PPM, each plant and strain is different. Ive had some hit 1200 PPM, and others average around 800 PPM.
I think once you get the cal mag issue sorted, you're going to have a hungry plant.

"I always forget and love how organized you are." - except when I forget to switch the amount of CM that's called for.

I'm dropping TDS because pH is dropping. Wonder Chart and Son of Wonder Chart both call for that, though Wonder Chart discusses EC using values of 1.0 and 1.4. To my mind, that's appropriate for photos but autos require a lighter touch. Son of WC recommends dropping TDS for falling, static, falling ("FSF") and those were the conditions I was looking at.

And the irony, of course, would be if this whole goat rope was because TDS is too low. On that note, I was at 210, misses a res swap because of work, and then decided to do a 400 PPM res. When I saw this issue, I dropped the PPM to 310/500 and pH was behaving. If I increased nute levels, pH started dropping so that's why I'm down to 5.9. I agree with you - 290 is very low but at 335/500 pH went up to 6.2 overnight and fell to 5.7 in a few hours. That's a quick drop.

 

[Delps8]

Just checked ph - it's at 5.6 which is 0.1 in about an hour.

Interesting situation - I can follow the charts and drop 3 gallons to get to 260 (about a 10% drop). That sounds crazy but that's what the charts call for. Do I follow that advice with the goal of getting pH to increase (indicating nutrient uptake)?

If this deficiency was caused by TDS being too low, I wouldn't see falling pH, right?

 

[Delps8]

I'm half tempted just to do a new res at 400 (similar to my GG grow) but I've been there with this grow and pH dropped.

 

[Rexer]

Hey @West Hippie would you be able to help?

 

[Delps8]

Timeline of pH between yesterday and today.

PPM was 335/500 when this data was captured.

I dropped PPM in response to pH dropping but perhaps, right now, the best move is to increase PPM and see if I get the same behavior.

My thinking - I've got 4 gallons of 100% nutes that will get me to 340/500 in a few minutes. Based on the behavior shown above, that should get me >= pH 6 which is where I need to be for Ca and Mg to be taken up. It's not a huge TDS change from where I am now at 290 but it did result in the plants taking up nutes, as demonstrated by the increase in pH.

 

[Rexer]

Hey Delps!

Sorry about last night- how are things looking today?

 

[Delps8]

The issue continues. I got the TDS to 400/500 and added Up to get it to 6.1, where Ca and Mg are taken up. As of 2330 pH was 6.1 and it was 5.8 by 0730. More leaves are involved and the damaged leaves are worse.

One thought is that the CalMag is not any good but it’s the same bottle I used for my last grow and I’m getting a PPM change when I add it. Regardless, I’ve ordered a new bottle and it will be here today.

I’m almost tempted to think that this might be excess CM. What weighs against that is that the symptoms showed up on plants when I was using only 2 ml/gallon. That fact supports the theory of it being lack of CM. However, the situation is worse after adding CM and upping PPM.

Perhaps the next step is to drop the TDS back into the 200’s. If that doesn’t resolve the issue, I don’t see any option other than to start a new grow.

 

[Delps8]

Just took this picture. As best I can tell, that happened overnight. I switched to 18/6 and the PPFD is <= 500 µmoles.

The red coloration at the base of the leaf is a symptom of a CM deficiency, right?

As much as I want to resolve the falling pH issue, the most pressing issue is CM. The new CM will be here “by 10 PM” so I can dump the res and start over. The next question would be “What TDS”? I don’t have a “last known good” PPM - I had this issue at 310/500 but that’s better than nothing.

Maybe I’ve got to assume that the CalMag has gone bad and go back to 310.

 

[Rexer]

The issue continues. I got the TDS to 400/500 and added Up to get it to 6.1, where Ca and Mg are taken up. As of 2330 pH was 6.1 and it was 5.8 by 0730. More leaves are involved and the damaged leaves are worse.

One thought is that the CalMag is not any good but it’s the same bottle I used for my last grow and I’m getting a PPM change when I add it. Regardless, I’ve ordered a new bottle and it will be here today.

I’m almost tempted to think that this might be excess CM. What weighs against that is that the symptoms showed up on plants when I was using only 2 ml/gallon. That fact supports the theory of it being lack of CM. However, the situation is worse after adding CM and upping PPM.

Perhaps the next step is to drop the TDS back into the 200’s. If that doesn’t resolve the issue, I don’t see any option other than to start a new grow.

Well before you ditch the grow, let's see if we can get a bunch of different eyes on it and figure out what's going on. I feel its a simple solution staring right at me, but I'm not firing on all pistons as they say.

@West Hippie @Tokin Roll @KCCO 77 @bluter @FelipeBlu

Hey guys, Delps has been having some issues with his grow. His info and data is spot on and meticulous if you have any questions for him.

These guys know the ins and out and hopefully can get you sorted Delps. I'm thinking it's a simple as getting the correct Ca Mg numbers and proper TDS level for the Botanicare lined up. But I have nowhere near the experience of these growers.

 

[Delps8]

Well before you ditch the grow, let's see if we can get a bunch of different eyes on it and figure out what's going on. I feel its a simple solution staring right at me, but I'm not firing on all pistons as they say.

@West Hippie @Tokin Roll @KCCO 77 @bluter @FelipeBlu

Hey guys, Delps has been having some issues with his grow. His info and data is spot on and meticulous if you have any questions for him.

These guys know the ins and out and hopefully can get you sorted Delps. I'm thinking it's a simple as getting the correct Ca Mg numbers and proper TDS level for the Botanicare lined up. But I have nowhere near the experience of these growers.

Rexer - thanks for calling in the cavalry.

I see the CM issue as the first priority though CM and pH could be intertwined? The res has had time where pH was >= 6.0 so, if CM was available, there were at least a few hours when it should have been taken up. The reality is that a set of leaves in the last picture I posted were healthy 18 hours ago. How can that happen so quickly if, one, the Cal Mag is good and, second, if pH was in the range favorable to C+M uptake?

You know I live in SoCal, right? Maybe I need to get “the spirits” involved? ;-)

 

[West Hippie]

I see the new roots reaching out . Your still locked out of uptake with a root problem is all I can come up with .

 

[Delps8]

West Hippie - I upped water temp to 69° and I’m using Hydroguard. Does Hydroguard go bad? It’s the same bottle that I used a few months back.
I’ll check the roots again this AM.