Dumpy's First 1000 Watt Soil Grow

[Dumpy]

I bought them feminized but from what I read, they can turn into a hermaphrodite and there are many different reasons they can turn. Sometimes shit happens. I'm happy that eight out of eight sprouted and grew so vigorously. I'm happy to be part of a great community here at 420 Mag. It was here that I learned to hover over them for the first two weeks of flower because this is when the boys show their true colours. It was kinda like sesame street really.( One of these plants is not like the others. Can you tell which plant just doesn't belong...... Hehe) i'm also happy that when I needed confirmation that everybody stepped up and helped out. That was awesome!!!!!! And Thank you all !!! Saved me from growing crap weed. I'll never sell it so the loss of a plant is nothing really in the grand scheme of things. Plus it's only a 4x4 tent and it was getting seriously cramped in there. Next week, hopefully it's Bud Candy time.

 

[Dumpy]

Gonna post some moe pics after they wake up.

 

[dragontoker]

how rude.....i shook my head .... because the breeder of the seeds did not do his job right.....you pay for female....i bet these seeds also get sold as 99.9 % female.... well dumpy must be the losing party, not I nor you ...you just got me wrong.

I did get you wrong and I apologize for doing so.

 

[vannelle]

 

[Dumpy]

Well.... Here are the pics for this week. This is the start of week 2 of flower. They're all girls now. Looks like were coming down the back stretch, getting ready to make the turn for home.

 

[Goshawk]

Your plants are really looking excellent Dumpy! I believe feminized seed has a tendency to hermaphrodite because to create the seed a female plant is forced to hermaphrodite and then the plant pollinates itself and the trait for hermaphroditism is passed on. So now if a plant is stressed by heat or cold or other factors during the second to fifth week of the vegetative cycle then the chance it will hermie or even be a male later when it flowers will be much higher than a regular seed or it could hermie for no reason at all except for how the seed was created. I would continue to be watchful for hermies throughout the flowering phase especially around the sixth week.

 

[geturgrowon]

nice grow i read the whole thread looking good looks like u have ur shit together keep up the good grow and im here to the end happy growing pce

 

[Dumpy]

Your plants are really looking excellent Dumpy! I believe feminized seed has a tendency to hermaphrodite because to create the seed a female plant is forced to hermaphrodite and then the plant pollinates itself and the trait for hermaphroditism is passed on. So now if a plant is stressed by heat or cold or other factors during the second to fifth week of the vegetative cycle then the chance it will hermie or even be a male later when it flowers will be much higher than a regular seed or it could hermie for no reason at all except for how the seed was created. I would continue to be watchful for hermies throughout the flowering phase especially around the sixth week.

Thanks Goshawk. I will keep a close eye on them from here on in. Currently my temps are 80 through the "day" with CO2 and 72 at "night" with no CO2. Humidity bounces between 40 and 50 percent. Depending on the time of week in respect to watering day. There are no light leaks in the tent, plus the tent is in a dark area. So why did it hermie? Maybe flushing it at the end of veg stressed it or maybe it was a genetic predisposition. I thought about it today and believe i shouldn't have cut the hermie down. I should have isolated the plant from the rest and let it produce a ton of female seeds. The next time it happens to me thats what im going to do. I went out this afternoon and bought a new tent. Bought a 8 x 4 x 7 along with two 1000 watt air cooled big kahuna fixtues and electronic ballasts. Bought a chiller and a Fuzitsu split 2 tonne A/C unit. In the next couple of week I'm going to put together an undercurrent DWC for my next kick at the cat. Got some fem White Widow seeds and some fem Northern Lights. Going to keep my 4x4 tent together for the same reason God put tits on a bull...just in case..... It should also make for a nice, cool, dark drying room.

 

[Dumpy]

nice grow i read the whole thread looking good looks like u have ur shit together keep up the good grow and im here to the end happy growing pce

and brodda. Gonna do my best. Hopefully they put on a decent show for us.

 

[SVNDR420]

Looking good mate! Im going to get back into growing within the next 6 months once i get everything back together. Im subbed for this one in the mean time. If you dont mind answering a few questions..

What soil are u using? And ferts and nutes?

What you have here is exactly what im looking into doing. Can wait, im excited to see how yours go, and excited to get my going.


oh, and bummer on the male!

 

[Goshawk]

You are really going to like the Big Kahuna hoods. I've bought three so far and plan on buying two more. I don't think flushing would cause enough stress for a plant to hermie. I do think the seeds that are produced from a plant that has hermied have an even greater chance of becoming hermies because the mother plant was a hermie and the mother plant before that was also a hermie. You could use one tent for the vegetative phase and the other one for the flowering phase. When a crop is finished flowering you could move the plants from the veg tent into the flowering tent and then start new plants in the veg tent. That way you could harvest a crop about every two months instead of about every four.

 

[dragontoker]

Thanks Goshawk. I will keep a close eye on them from here on in. Currently my temps are 80 through the "day" with CO2 and 72 at "night" with no CO2. Humidity bounces between 40 and 50 percent. Depending on the time of week in respect to watering day. There are no light leaks in the tent, plus the tent is in a dark area. So why did it hermie? Maybe flushing it at the end of veg stressed it or maybe it was a genetic predisposition. I thought about it today and believe i shouldn't have cut the hermie down. I should have isolated the plant from the rest and let it produce a ton of female seeds. The next time it happens to me thats what im going to do. I went out this afternoon and bought a new tent. Bought a 8 x 4 x 7 along with two 1000 watt air cooled big kahuna fixtues and electronic ballasts. Bought a chiller and a Fuzitsu split 2 tonne A/C unit. In the next couple of week I'm going to put together an undercurrent DWC for my next kick at the cat. Got some fem White Widow seeds and some fem Northern Lights. Going to keep my 4x4 tent together for the same reason God put tits on a bull...just in case..... It should also make for a nice, cool, dark drying room.

Ahhhh new toys, love it, cant wait to see it....Have to get my ass up there for sure.

Use the old tent for mothers and a clone machine.

You stepped up to 4x8 and I'm wanting to step up to the 4x4 and 1k fixture.

Some tips I learned about setting up my under current.
1. Pay the extra money for square heavy duty black buckets.
a. black you dont have to worry about covering every nick and cranny from the light.
b. square, easier to mount uniseals
c. heavy duty, at least 3/16 to a 1/4 inch thick, buckets wont split when uniseals expand. Found many splits when I pulled my buckets apart because the buckets were super thin.
d. Hinged lids on buckets so you can see whats going on without pulling plant out.
e. use 2 inch pvc pipe, Danner Manufacturing mag 5 pump (which has a 1/2" thread,,,instead of the mag 7 with a 3/4" thread (its to much pump)

f. in my thread is the name of my air pump, great fairly quiet 25liter pump with 8 outlets that are controlled. In your electrical terms its controlled like this. 8 pole single throw, lol
g. spend the dough on good air stones, I used cheap 4 for $2 ones and they werent heavy enough to keep the hose and stone down and produced huge bubbles that didnt fill the buckets.

2. 2 inch pipe to uniseals
a. Cut ends of pipe @ 45's, soap up ends with hand wash dishwashing soap.
it will make it much easier to push pipe through having the 45's. Some soaps get sticky to fast and make things harder not easier.

3. Reservoir

a. Make sure its piped to a drain for water changes and has a float in it to keep water topped off. Changing water is no fun by hand if you dont have res pumped right to drain.

b. If you dont pipe res right to drain, use a res that is just enough to keep bucket water height correct...Like I said changing out water is a pain. I did it 3 or 4 times because of leaks,,,,,that was enough to tell me I didnt want to do it any more. To pipe in a drain, I would of had to cut through 3 rooms and lay approx 30ft of hose to get to where it needed to be. I wasnt willing to do this being I just got done remodeling these rooms.

4. Net pots
a. Use 3 inch net pots and 3 inch neoprene inserts. 2 inch is to small if you want big plants
b. set your cloner up with the same 3 inch net pots and neo inserts, no screwing around once clones have roots you just pull out the net pot and set them right into your under current


If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know

 

[dragontoker]

One more thing about the net pots and neo inserts. Going this route eliminates the need for hydroton, which eliminates hydroton dust in your system or prewashing it.

 

[Dumpy]

Looking good mate! Im going to get back into growing within the next 6 months once i get everything back together. Im subbed for this one in the mean time. If you dont mind answering a few questions..

What soil are u using? And ferts and nutes?

What you have here is exactly what im looking into doing. Can wait, im excited to see how yours go, and excited to get my going.


oh, and bummer on the male!

Hey Sundvr420, , The growing medium is ProMix BX and HP. To start them I used the BX and when I transplanted them I used HP. No reason for the change, it's just what the shop I use had that day. The ProMix growing medium is nice because you need not worry about PH and air at the roots. It just happens. I still ph the water though.

Nutes:

Dutch Nutrient Formula Grow A+B
Dutch Nutrient Formula Bloom A+B
Pro Silicate
Organicare Seaplex
Triptonic B1
Root Excelurator
Amino Acid
Multi Zen
Bud Candy
Clear

Lotsa chemistry. I'll take a pic of the feeding schedule for you as well. Works for both soil/soilless and hydro.

 

[geturgrowon]

And Brodda. Gonna do my best. Hopefully they put on a decent show for us.

for sure with the set up u have u will be laughin n

 

[Dumpy]

You are really going to like the Big Kahuna hoods. I've bought three so far and plan on buying two more. I don't think flushing would cause enough stress for a plant to hermie. I do think the seeds that are produced from a plant that has hermied have an even greater chance of becoming hermies because the mother plant was a hermie and the mother plant before that was also a hermie. You could use one tent for the vegetative phase and the other one for the flowering phase. When a crop is finished flowering you could move the plants from the veg tent into the flowering tent and then start new plants in the veg tent. That way you could harvest a crop about every two months instead of about every four.

I've read posts with different thoughts on the rate hermies occur, but I have never thought about the hermie from a hermie factor. The next time this happens, I'm gonna grow it and then grow ten of the seeds and see if the hermie rate increases. I know it isn't much of an experiment doing it once, but i do know that this time I've gotten one from eight so far... If the rate remains the same or less for the next kick at the cat, then the hermie is just passing on it's own traits and not adding to them? It is still the same mother and father...? Is the plants abiliy to hermie a passable trait? We may even find an increase. Its the same tent, nutes and gear. The only change will be the hermie from a hermie seed. I know it's kinda screwed up, hoping for a hermie but I'm kind of interested in seeing what happens. Hopefully it happens with the Northern Lights. A hermie grow journal.....

 

[Dumpy]

Ahhhh new toys, love it, cant wait to see it....Have to get my ass up there for sure.

Use the old tent for mothers and a clone machine.

You stepped up to 4x8 and I'm wanting to step up to the 4x4 and 1k fixture.

Some tips I learned about setting up my under current.
1. Pay the extra money for square heavy duty black buckets.
a. black you dont have to worry about covering every nick and cranny from the light.
b. square, easier to mount uniseals
c. heavy duty, at least 3/16 to a 1/4 inch thick, buckets wont split when uniseals expand. Found many splits when I pulled my buckets apart because the buckets were super thin.
d. Hinged lids on buckets so you can see whats going on without pulling plant out.
e. use 2 inch pvc pipe, Danner Manufacturing mag 5 pump (which has a 1/2" thread,,,instead of the mag 7 with a 3/4" thread (its to much pump)

f. in my thread is the name of my air pump, great fairly quiet 25liter pump with 8 outlets that are controlled. In your electrical terms its controlled like this. 8 pole single throw, lol
g. spend the dough on good air stones, I used cheap 4 for $2 ones and they werent heavy enough to keep the hose and stone down and produced huge bubbles that didnt fill the buckets.

2. 2 inch pipe to uniseals
a. Cut ends of pipe @ 45's, soap up ends with hand wash dishwashing soap.
it will make it much easier to push pipe through having the 45's. Some soaps get sticky to fast and make things harder not easier.

3. Reservoir

a. Make sure its piped to a drain for water changes and has a float in it to keep water topped off. Changing water is no fun by hand if you dont have res pumped right to drain.

b. If you dont pipe res right to drain, use a res that is just enough to keep bucket water height correct...Like I said changing out water is a pain. I did it 3 or 4 times because of leaks,,,,,that was enough to tell me I didnt want to do it any more. To pipe in a drain, I would of had to cut through 3 rooms and lay approx 30ft of hose to get to where it needed to be. I wasnt willing to do this being I just got done remodeling these rooms.

4. Net pots
a. Use 3 inch net pots and 3 inch neoprene inserts. 2 inch is to small if you want big plants
b. set your cloner up with the same 3 inch net pots and neo inserts, no screwing around once clones have roots you just pull out the net pot and set them right into your under current


If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know

Thanks Puff. I will definitely automate the water change process. There are two drains near the new tent location. I will probably use the floor drain and buy a 3 way pool valve so the pump eother circulates or dumps water. I needed a drain for the ac unit and dehumidifier. Gonna take my time putting it together. I've still gotta grow a few strands and see what I like. Not sure if the White Widow was a good choice but i still wanna try it. Would like to find something that leaves me happy, energetic and can still function. I would also like to find something that would make for a nice after dinner smoke. Its too bad there's no such thing as a wine tasting bar except with weed. Would narrow my search quicker. Hehe.

 

[dragontoker]

Thanks Puff. I will definitely automate the water change process. There are two drains near the new tent location. I will probably use the floor drain and buy a 3 way pool valve so the pump eother circulates or dumps water. I needed a drain for the ac unit and dehumidifier. Gonna take my time putting it together. I've still gotta grow a few strands and see what I like. Not sure if the White Widow was a good choice but i still wanna try it. Would like to find something that leaves me happy, energetic and can still function. I would also like to find something that would make for a nice after dinner smoke. Its too bad there's no such thing as a wine tasting bar except with weed. Would narrow my search quicker. Hehe.

I'm in my very early 40's, Ive smoked pot since I was 13...........If you find that magic bullet strain that leaves you energetic, please do share. Ive never smoked anything that didnt make me want to sit on the couch, eat a box of lucky charms while watching scooby doo. Times have changed, food of choice and TV programs have changed but the feeling of wanting to hit the couch hasnt. I dont smoke until everything that needs to be done is done.

 

[Aberration]

I have read about and thought over hermies a lot. I'm not a botanist, but I play one in my garden. This is my semi-educated opinion and is part speculation. Caveat emptor:

Almost all cannabis plants have the capacity to become hermaphrodite. This is a survival trait. In these plants, as in all, the primary objective is to reproduce. Everything else is secondary to these girls. A female seed will grow to be a female plant, and will mature and bloom. If it is pollinated by a nearby male, it will reproduce, creating seeds that share the genetics of both parents. Then the plant dies. They all die every winter in the wild. The seeds they produce are their only method of insuring that cannabis plants will be standing the next year.

If it does not get pollinated, the cannabis plant will react to this. Pollinating a single flower causes that flower to change and produce an embryo. In the process it sends chemical signals to the surrounding plant, which then supports that flower and it's embryo instead of starting so many new flowers. But if it is not pollinated, the surrounding tissues keep doing what they have been doing: making more flowers.

This is the best reason why we grow sensimilla or unpollinated females. Sure, it's nice to get the seeds out of your smoking buds. But because none of them steal resources to grow seeds, they make more flowers. That means bigger, denser buds.

So the plant naturally plays the numbers. But that is not the only way it can combat a lack of pollen in the air. It can also hermie. Sure, there are genetic issues with self-pollination, but in the short term it is clearly better than dying without reproducing.

I am unsure of the real mechanism for triggering hermies, but I have a theory. I believe that nearly everything in the plant happens because of hormones. I think that when a male flowers, it does so because it is producing a mix of hormones that cause that growth. When a female flowers, she produces a different mixture of hormones, producing female flowers instead. These hormone mixes may not be the same, but they may have overlap.

I suspect that if the production of hormones is not exactly matched to the usage some will build up and others will often be short. This leads to variations in how different strains express their sexuality, and probably every other observable feature of the plant as well. I speculate that as a plant produces the hormones, they vary in that mix from strain to strain, meaning some will tend to over-produce some hormones, and others over-produce a different set of hormones. The closer that over-production resembles a male hormone mix, the more likely a given female node will react and become male. As a plant continues to bloom, the imbalances will get greater and greater, making it more likely that the plant will exceed the threshold in one or more flowers and hermie.

All stresses are simply conditions that cause the plant to react to preserve itself. These reactions are due to hormones that are affected by the conditions at hand. They modify the production of hormones and can therefore also lead to a buildup of hormones that will be expressed as male flowers.

So to summarize: The tendency to hermie is a survival trait; a way for the plant to continue it's genetics. Different strains vary in their exact hormone production. Excesses due to stress or natural variation in the mixture of hormones naturally produced can lead to male flowers over time.

Now acquired traits are not passed on. This is basic biology. Only genetic traits can pass from generation to generation. So if you torture a plant until it hermies and then pollinate it with it's own pollen (like when making feminized seed), the offspring will not be more likely to hermie as a result, just as your child won't be born with a broken arm just because you had one when you conceived the child. The tendency to hermie - given constant and consistent conditions - will be unchanged by selfing like that because there is no change in the genetics (other than mutations, but we can leave that out of the conversation because that is a relative rarity). So feminized seeds should not increase the likelihood of going hermie just because they were selfed. At least no more than any other random genetic mistake (mutation).

Changes in external conditions and internal processes can however. If you stress them, some strains will hermie very easily. If you cross that strain with another that hermies easier, the result might be a hermie nightmare. Or maybe not, since there is some randomness to what traits are passed by which parent. Other strains are harder to stress, meaning less likely to hermie. Some at the extreme require the direct application of hormone to force the issue and would otherwise never hermie. In the wild, strains with this trait would fail to compete and disappear from the gene pool. Here on 420mag we do everything we can to fight that survival trait. In breeding for that we make the plant more dependent on manual cultivation to survive.

That's what we call domestication and one of many reasons why we should all be concerned about the preservation of pure landraces.

I would not assume that this one hermie is alone though.

</ramble>

 

[Goshawk]

Interesting theory but the proven fact is the hermie trait is passed on and that feminized seeds are more likely to hermie than a regular seed. This is a fact not speculation.