Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab - Part 3A - Flowering a Plant with 2 x 90W LED

[gangalicious]

Okay, in case you missed parts 1 and 2 (check out the links in my sig): both were CFL cabinet grows in a 2.4 sq foot box. I used CFLs for both veg and flower and the medicine produced is fantastic. Not super heavy yields though, and it took a long time to finally control the heat produced by all those bulbs. And with summer coming up, it's just gonna get hotter.

I found the cab at your favorite home improvement store a while ago on sale for 40% off, so I couldn't pass it up. It's still 2.4 sq feet of floor space, but I've got a lot more height to work with here. I'm still using the original box as a veg cab and I've got a nice plant vegging in there. PLUS, for the first time ever, I planted a few seeds (Sour D bagseed) and I have some Cheese clones on order. I'm gonna post a separate journal for my T5/fluorescent grow anytime now, so I'll include the seedlings and other stuff in that journal instead.

Here we go . . .

Strain: Grape Ice. I've grown this strain twice before. Never grown anything before that, not even a houseplant. Killed a few houseplants tho.

FFOF soilerlite ratio is 4:1 (80%/20%)

Nutes: General Organics BioThrive Bloom; kelp; high phosphorus (bloom) and high nitrogen (veg) guanos; GH Rare Earth (source of silica and some ancient magical decomposed matter)

Cab Temps: 77-85F, pretty much running within two degrees (F) of room temperature.

Humidity: will probably be on the dry side for the rest of this grow. 38% right now. Will probably go lower as Summer approaches. Cool mist humidifier on standby.

2 X 90W UFO-style LED lights for a total of 180W. I don't know the actual draw.

60 degree lenses

660nm, 630nm (about half the LEDs on each unit are red), 1 ea @ 380nm and 730nm, and the 450-460nm range is covered by bluish/white (12,000k?) Cree LEDs plus another type of white Cree LED (appears less blue, but not "warm" colored either) in the unit.

There are definitely two types of white LEDs in this unit and I've found that sometimes it's like pulling teeth trying to get technical information from manufacturers and vendors alike. The bluish-white lights are supposed to be 12,000 kelvin, but I haven't seen a 12,000k diode listed anywhere on Cree's site yet. I did find a spectral power distribution for their white LEDs at 5000-10000k, but nothing for 12K. The 5-10K units look like they have a nice peak at 450-460nm, so it looks like that range is covered. I'm still trying to dig up more info. Anyway, the white LEDs are advertised as producing over 100lumens/watt. They are bright. The mix of the bluish white and white LEDs make up the other half of the lights on each unit.

One immediate concern I had with the design is that the red LEDs and the blue/white LEDs are on separate halves of the unit. It's like a red half-moon and bluish/white half-moon on each unit when both sides are turned on. With the relatively narrow 60 degree lenses the "blues" and reds cannot adequately "mix" if the units are too close to the plants, so I cannot place the lights any closer than about 9" or so, give or take. Any closer than that and I can clearly see the colors separately.

Okay, so this plant was vegged under CFLs and looked good and healthy when I put her into darkness back on May 1st. Here she is on day 1 of 12/12:

When I turned on the LEDs for the first time I was struck by the reduced lumen output compared to the same wattage of CFLs even! The white LEDs are pumping out over 100 lumens per watt, so it's definitely brighter than many other UFO-type lights out there, but still my LED cab is is not nearly as bright as my CFL cab.

Also day 1:

However . . . after 36 hours of darkness and just one day under the leds the plant took on a really nice green color. I wish I had taken a photo just before the first day of 12/12 for comparison. This is just my third grow, but still, she's clearly the healthiest looking plant I've grown so far . . .

Also, the heat coming off these two led units is practically negligible. So right now in the box I've got two pc fans (super quiet) as exhaust, one for carbon filtration, two passive intakes at the bottom, and another pc fan hanging near a third passive intake, acting as a poor man's oscillator.

And here we are at day 6. There has been a lot of stretching going on compared to the stretching I got with this strain in the CFL box. I'm also thinking about leaving the lights in this more concave orientation. Seems like too much light was hitting the walls of the cab otherwise. I dunno. Seemed like a good idea . . .

I'm letting her stretch upward a bit, but I'm also LSTing her branches outward to (hopefully) fill in all the horizontal space with a luscious canopy o buds.

Note: this is a medical grow for my own personal use to treat a serious medical condition as determined by a licensed medical professional in my state. I am making every effort to ensure that my entire grow is in compliance with all state and local laws and to continue to raise positive awareness of the cannabis community among the general population.

That said, the focus of this journal is not extraordinarily centered on whether any particular lighting system type can outperform any other. Please feel free to follow along, ask questions, joke around, chill out, and by all means share your thoughts and suggestions in a respectable, constructive way on the best cannabis oriented board ever!

One more note: I'm very busy, so I unfortunately cannot always log on when I feel like it. I will update as often as I can though!

 

[Dacob]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L



I'm on board!

Interesting LEDs, I've never heard of a 12K LED either, and the 10K ones are expensive, so I'm not sure what they used.

Plant looks really healthy! I get the same results from LEDs, the plants really seem to love them and respond with very rapid growth... Good idea on the LST to fill it out, since it's all alone in your cab, might at well use the space!

Since you are using 2 for such a small space, I would not worry about the spectral mixing, 60 degrees is a narrow emmission angle for sure, but with two UFOs, the extra lumens available will help to compensate for the fact that they might still be a bit collimated. I like 120 degree dispersion for the better over all-coverage, but of course to do sacrifice some penetration by making that choice...

Anyway, looking good so far! I think she should flower very nicely with all that light available.

 

[palcah]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

I'd say third time is a charm, but all of your grows have been "a charm". That set-up looks great and the color on her is gorgeous. Good luck!!

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

I'm on board!

Interesting LEDs, I've never heard of a 12K LED either, and the 10K ones are expensive, so I'm not sure what they used.

Plant looks really healthy! I get the same results from LEDs, the plants really seem to love them and respond with very rapid growth... Good idea on the LST to fill it out, since it's all alone in your cab, might at well use the space!

Since you are using 2 for such a small space, I would not worry about the spectral mixing, 60 degrees is a narrow emmission angle for sure, but with two UFOs, the extra lumens available will help to compensate for the fact that they might still be a bit collimated. I like 120 degree dispersion for the better over all-coverage, but of course to do sacrifice some penetration by making that choice...

Anyway, looking good so far! I think she should flower very nicely with all that light available.

Hey Dacob, nice to have you along. I agree, the plants really seem to love them. Lots of stretching compared to my CFL grows though. I think it's energy emitted in one of those long wavelengths stimulating the plant to do its thang in the stretchy phase. Idk.

The white LEDs seem very bright (for their size anyway) and there are definitely two different types on the UFOs. The cool-white LEDs seem only slightly more blue than the 6400/6500K CFL lights I've got on hand, but it's really hard to make a good comparison, especially since two CFL bulbs with the same kelvin rating will often appear much different. There is a lot of variability with advertised kelvin scale ratings, which is why I'm really trying to get other data for these leds. These units do sell for more than the average UFO on the market, especially the ones coming from overseas. They seem to be well constructed and the components appear to be high quality. Most importantly, the plants seem to be thriving at this point.

Yeah, you're right, I'm not gonna worry too much about the collimation since there's quite a bit of LED energy being directed at that one plant and I like the extra penetration of the 60 degree lenses. Besides, even when I had the lights too close initially (at about 8"), the plants still seemed to love it. I'll be decreasing the distance as the grow progresses.

I'd say third time is a charm, but all of your grows have been "a charm". That set-up looks great and the color on her is gorgeous. Good luck!!

The cab is light and easy to move, and I didn't have to spend any money on cooling and I threw it together fast. Using PC fans I already had sitting around, the setup is cool and quiet. Perfect for that one special plant whose name, by the way, is Jibba Jabba and, yes, she is looking just fabulous today!

 

[Krhyme]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Looking good. I'm glad you angled the units to provide a more intense footprint. You have to take in account the outer diameter of the light next to another outer diameter of the adjacent light so angling them is very beneficial. You can almost focus them together like a magnifying glass, to provide a deep penetration....to the main cola perhaps? Unless you topped or fimmed, which I'm not aware of. ( because it would result in multiple main colas instead of 1 cola and many tops).
So far it's lookin good. You're journals struck an interest because i've used 4 4' 54w t5 HO for veg and LED for flower.

Keep up the pic's.

On a side note you said you were using a pc fan for carbon filtration? Could you explain what u mean?

Could you also maybe post a picture of your lights (on) , to show the LED arrangement?
I'm intrigued by this half moon colors you speak off. If there's too much blue in a concentrated area it could cause stretching in flowering (being the shortest wavelength).

Thx and MMJ for the win!

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Looking good. I'm glad you angled the units to provide a more intense footprint. You have to take in account the outer diameter of the light next to another outer diameter of the adjacent light so angling them is very beneficial. You can almost focus them together like a magnifying glass, to provide a deep penetration....to the main cola perhaps? Unless you topped or fimmed, which I'm not aware of. ( because it would result in multiple main colas instead of 1 cola and many tops).
So far it's lookin good. You're journals struck an interest because i've used 4 4' 54w t5 HO for veg and LED for flower.

Keep up the pic's.

On a side note you said you were using a pc fan for carbon filtration? Could you explain what u mean?

Could you also maybe post a picture of your lights (on) , to show the LED arrangement?
I'm intrigued by this half moon colors you speak off. If there's too much blue in a concentrated area it could cause stretching in flowering (being the shortest wavelength).

Thx and MMJ for the win!

As the box fills, I'm going to decrease the angling of the UFOs, but I figured until then, why not direct the light toward the plant, eh?

I have not topped or fimmed, but I have trained her by gently (mostly) pulling the branches outward and to the sides, exposing the branches to the light and stimulating more branching. I've noticed that she's got a lot of branches that originate very low on the plant and then shoot way up toward the light. Much more so than with my CFL grows. She's really stretching too, like crazy compared to CFLs.

The pc fan for filtration was mostly an experimental setup that is not very effective, so I am going to remove it from the box and go with something else. Considering the options.

I will show the lighting arrangement soon, but its pretty much just all the reds on one half and everything else on the other. The blue causes stretching?

MMJ!

 

[Krhyme]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

I would think you would at least always need some slight angle of the ufo's. I've seen grows with two ufo's side by side horizontal and honestly it doesn't do very well, and that was with a 90 degree light angle.

I'm not sure if you are a DIY person, but the DIY forum has many smell filtration stickies. From carbon scrubbers to those automated bathroom sprayers of ozium, or a fan blowing into ona gel. On a small space grow like yours ona gel might be good for you or I'm sure it would be affordable to use gas stations cups and activated carbon to assemble a small carbon scrubber, funny but would most likely be effective.

And there are a lot of reasons for stretching. Sometimes the stretching can be done in the dark if IR is available. But from what i hear about the positioning of the light and the viewing angle of the diodes it might not be blending well and blue light ( being the shortest wavelength) might cause the plants to stretch towards them.

To be honest, blue light isn't needed in flowering. I have seen studies of led red like 660nm lights on 24/7 and flower a plant ( very slowly, but nonetheless). Blue light is not part of PAD lighting or photosynthetic artificial darkness, so i believe too much of it could interfere with the flowering process. I am surprised to hear that your light contains half blue. Hanging the lights like (R|B) (R|B) and angling them towards a center focus would allow to mix the colors better. R = Red B= BLue. Just my two cents. I love LED grows and I'm willing to help out in anyway. New technology and we're all learning.

Can't wait to see the update pics. Keep it up bro!

 

[Green Utopia]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Great stuff. I would not be too worried about the stretch but the usual solution to that is to lower the lights a little. Other than that, I don't have any words of wisdom other than to keep up the great work.

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Day 10:

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

I would think you would at least always need some slight angle of the ufo's. I've seen grows with two ufo's side by side horizontal and honestly it doesn't do very well, and that was with a 90 degree light angle.

I'm not sure if you are a DIY person, but the DIY forum has many smell filtration stickies. From carbon scrubbers to those automated bathroom sprayers of ozium, or a fan blowing into ona gel. On a small space grow like yours ona gel might be good for you or I'm sure it would be affordable to use gas stations cups and activated carbon to assemble a small carbon scrubber, funny but would most likely be effective.

And there are a lot of reasons for stretching. Sometimes the stretching can be done in the dark if IR is available. But from what i hear about the positioning of the light and the viewing angle of the diodes it might not be blending well and blue light ( being the shortest wavelength) might cause the plants to stretch towards them.

To be honest, blue light isn't needed in flowering. I have seen studies of led red like 660nm lights on 24/7 and flower a plant ( very slowly, but nonetheless). Blue light is not part of PAD lighting or photosynthetic artificial darkness, so i believe too much of it could interfere with the flowering process. I am surprised to hear that your light contains half blue. Hanging the lights like (R|B) (R|B) and angling them towards a center focus would allow to mix the colors better. R = Red B= BLue. Just my two cents. I love LED grows and I'm willing to help out in anyway. New technology and we're all learning.

Can't wait to see the update pics. Keep it up bro!

About the filtration, she really doesn't need it yet, so I'm gonna rig something up DIY in the next couple of weeks. I've got the exhaust from my tent blowing over an Ona, and although most of that air is headed out of the room, a bit is directed into the room, bringing a hint of Ona. Just a lil tho. That's all I can handle. But it's enough for now.

So I posted the lights above. I think maybe I should have said half white/half red. But it's the white diodes supplying the blue light. Sorry if there was any confusion. But yes, the white diodes have peaks in those blue ranges, but not all of their energy is emitted there. If it was half "blue" then, yes, I'd far more concerned. Also, I found out that the warmer colored white LEDs in the units are 5000K.

I'm continuing to keep the light at the recommended distances to make sure the blending is adequate, and I'm going to continue to maintain some sort of imaginary focal point for the two lights. Seems to make the most sense at this point with this configuration. I actually have been placing the units into the R|B R|B configuration like you suggested, but every time I adjust the chain length the lights tend to spin a little, so some times it ends up more like R/B or something random like you see in the pics. Gotta go fix it.

Thanks for all the info and interesting suggestions!

Great stuff. I would not be too worried about the stretch but the usual solution to that is to lower the lights a little. Other than that, I don't have any words of wisdom other than to keep up the great work.

Hey Papa Green. Welcome. I guess I should clarify that I'm not too worried about the stretch, it's more of a sense of amazement that a plant can grow so fast!

 

[Spy4Pie]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Nice! I'm on board.

 

[Krhyme]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Wow nice updates. Now I understand your lights haha! While they aren't blue like i was thinking (lol) it is a rather interesting layout. I haven't seen lights like that, we'll see how they do. That ona gel will probably do the trick thru the entire grow, being as it is only one plant. I'm not sure how cautious you are of smell. I love the sweet aroma of a grow room, growing dank smells so much sweeter than dried ganja (imo).

I think cannabis smells wonderful, and if i naturally came across it with no previous knowledge, I would assume a plant so attractive and sweet smelling would hold some kind of medicinal properties. And it could be found naturally, if it weren't for big brother. Anyways I'm ranting. Great grow! Keep it up. Can't wait to see some pistils.

 

[4twenty4all]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Great clean setup! Beautiful plants too. I'll be watching this grow. + reps for a god start.

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Day 11

Some pics in the room.

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Nice! I'm on board.

Glad to have you along!

Wow nice updates. Now I understand your lights haha! While they aren't blue like i was thinking (lol) it is a rather interesting layout. I haven't seen lights like that, we'll see how they do. That ona gel will probably do the trick thru the entire grow, being as it is only one plant. I'm not sure how cautious you are of smell. I love the sweet aroma of a grow room, growing dank smells so much sweeter than dried ganja (imo).

I think cannabis smells wonderful, and if i naturally came across it with no previous knowledge, I would assume a plant so attractive and sweet smelling would hold some kind of medicinal properties. And it could be found naturally, if it weren't for big brother. Anyways I'm ranting. Great grow! Keep it up. Can't wait to see some pistils.

Thanks, man. And the the lights are switchable, meaning you can turn off either one of the banks of leds. So, for example, if you wanted to experiment with just growing under the reds, or if you just wanted to grow under the whites, then this is pretty much the UFO to do it with. I'll post pics later to illustrate the switching features. With just the red lights on, you get just the 630, 660, and IR. Interesting . . .

I agree, I love that sweet aroma too. That's why I don't care if I get a little bit of essence of the herb when I come into the room. It's such a nice welcome. Just as long as its not too strong.

Great clean setup! Beautiful plants too. I'll be watching this grow. + reps for a god start.

Thanks 4twenty4all! Good to have you along and thanks for the reps.

 

[Reefa Cheefa]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Very nice looking setup/plant keep up the good work! +rep

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Thanks again Reefa Cheefa!

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

I love the sweet aroma of a grow room, growing dank smells so much sweeter than dried ganja (imo). I think cannabis smells wonderful, and if i naturally came across it with no previous knowledge, I would assume a plant so attractive and sweet smelling would hold some kind of medicinal properties. And it could be found naturally. . . .

I was a bit rushed when I responded to your post earlier but, yes, the grow room does hold a special place in my heart and a lot of that is due to the sweet aroma you mentioned. I also love the smell of the plants in veg too!

 

[gangalicious]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

Switching features . . .

A couple days ago I added the desktop oscillating fan (which you can hardly see anymore) and raised the pc fan so that it is blowing between the lights and the canopy. It's nice and breezy in there.

I've also been raising the lights about every other day to maintain a good distance from the canopy. Day 12:

And here's some interesting info on the white leds from Cree's site. Okay, I originally erased the curve for the 2600-3700K leds. Then I thought someone might want that info and I couldn't find the file, so I just penciled it back in as a dashed line. You can get the original at their site. It's kinda hard to find, but the graph below is pretty much it.

 

[palcah]

Re: Gangalicious Experimental Med Grow Lab, Part 3a: flowering a plant with 2 X 90W L

JJ is looking fuller than ever! Like the shots of the lights-very dramatic! Where would the ganja illustration fall on this graph? Just say'n? This is so SMOKIN!