Intelligent gro: How to get a supplier to fix their product?

[Squeeg]

No way it's 14 gauge. Cable is way too flexible for that gauge of wire.
I'll pull an end off and see what gauge it is. I'm more inclined to say 18-20.
I understand impedance. That was the first concern I had with this light.
I don't think it likes a 700w+ draw.
I've been in construction long enough to see what happens to wire when there's too much load. Poof.

 

[Techhead]

Here's a true life for instance of too small of a power cord. I work on some marine products and some of them go on large boats. They come with 14G wire about 6' long. It says right in the installation instructions if you have to go more than 6' from the power source to the cable that comes with it, you should use 12G wire, and if you go more than 10' you should have 10G wire. In other words, you will not get full power to the unit if the current has to travel through more than 12' total of 14G wire. Now I know these units draw only 18A max at 12V, and that's really loaded. The average draw is only about 12A. What is the current draw of these lights? what gauge wire did they use? If they are drawing 10A through an 18G wire, then they should think again.

 

[Techhead]

Ok Squeeg, I just got your post up there, 700W is 6.4A when rounded, plus fans and other losses. I have not done this, but I bet you can find specs for wires, and I'll be ready to put my money down they are not using the right gauge.

 

[Squeeg]

At 100% I'm drawing 750-770w, depending on fans. 7.3-7.5 amps@ 110v
I'm using the 6' cord that came with the light directly into dedicated receptacle on a 20 amp gfi breaker.
I used to have complete aquaponics running off that one plug- 3 t5 light panels, 2 water pumps and an air pump drawing about same wattage.
When my cycle is over in the morning, I will take the female end apart and see what gauge wire I have in there and I guarantee it isn't 14. Unpossible. The wire is way too thin to be 14/3.

Blowing cold air from outside directly on fan intakes is the best thing I did. Makes a huge difference in temps.

 

[Techhead]

I'm sure the power at the receptacle is not the problem. I think the code for a 20A service is 12G, but I'm an electronics tech. not an electrician. There is a difference for those of you out there. (just in case) Just saying that because somebody out there may say, no the code is this, or that. Who cares. What is important here is over 7 amps on a 6' cord at 18G or less. I still have my money on this is not good enough. Any electricians out there that does know? Please chime in.

 

[Squeeg]

Found a calculator online.
7.4 amps should have 13 gauge wire. 9 amp should be 12 gauge.
American Wire Gauge table and AWG Electrical Current Load Limits with skin depth frequencies and wire breaking strength

 

[Techhead]

That looks right to me Squeeg, and 14G should be good enough. If it does fix those lights, you and I should get a job there, or at least a free light for solving the problem there techs can't seem to get a handle on. You with me on this?

 

[Squeeg]

Yea!!

 

[Hiker]

I run aquaponics btw to an ebb and flow setup. I have koi right now in my tank, but hopefully this summer I can get my greenhouse finished and put in tilapia. Koi are a pretty dirty fish and I have to run my water through a filter before my plants. Ph is 6.0-6.3 and ppm is unknown, but the plants love it. I am going to experiment this year with deep water, constant flow and with a mister system. I'm documenting the misting system right now as I'm building another small 3x6 room in the basement.
I prefer the basement because it's less trouble for heating and cooling. Humidity in summer is not an issue cause I have multiple dehumidifiers.
Bugs don't seem to last long down here. I introduced daddy long legs into my veg and grow room and since I don't use soil anymore, most fly problems don't exist. I did have spider mites for about a week, but placing a couple daddy long legs directly in infested areas seemed to wipe em out within hours.
Having 500 gallons of aquaponics and 40 fish, I can't and don't use pesticides so my water is pretty much drinkable if I had to. I've tried it. Tastes like swamp to tell the truth.
I won't be happy until I get 1+ gram/watt.
Last summer I grew a 3.5 lb tomato in my basement off 2 54w HO t5's.
I use t5's for clone/veg room and may get a small UVB to experiment with.
I use no chemicals at all. I even grow my own fish food in a small 50 gallon Rubbermaid container.
My whole set up had taken 2 years to put together and closing in on $10k, but in the next year or 2 I will have built a 56' geodesic dome greenhouse for food production and if I can figure out an economical way to keep tilapia warm in these cold Canadian winters expand to 2500 fish and 8-10000 gallons of water.
Now I'm looking for next set of LED lights for second grow room to experiment with.

I'd love to see your aquaponics setup. I am interested in setting a system up for food production. If I get good at it, maybe I will try some cannabis in there too.

At 100% I'm drawing 750-770w, depending on fans. 7.3-7.5 amps@ 110v
I'm using the 6' cord that came with the light directly into dedicated receptacle on a 20 amp gfi breaker.
I used to have complete aquaponics running off that one plug- 3 t5 light panels, 2 water pumps and an air pump drawing about same wattage.
When my cycle is over in the morning, I will take the female end apart and see what gauge wire I have in there and I guarantee it isn't 14. Unpossible. The wire is way too thin to be 14/3.

Blowing cold air from outside directly on fan intakes is the best thing I did. Makes a huge difference in temps.

The cord should be stamped/labeled with the gauge.

Does iGro use the same cord as everyone else? ie the kind used for a computer.
Try a different, thicker, one?

I like the theory about that cord being part of the issue. If you are starving the power supplies, they will not be able to feed those high demand COB LEDs. You may have had several issues all compounding on each other. If the COBs are overheating, the temperature increase will increase their resistance, which raises their current demand, which adds more heat, which increases resistance, etc. You see where this goes.

You replaced some parts which got the whole system just under the threshold for a thermal runaway problem. Based on your description of what happened after you replaced the parts, you're right at that threshold still. Replacing the power cord could be another way to move you further below that threshold.

Putting the fans so they blow right on the lamps is likely also helping to get the whole system under that threshold.


Thank you for making this thread. I almost bought several of these lights, and am glad I didn't. I was negotiating directly with CTLite though, so any issues directly related to David would have been avoided. I think the control these lights offer is awesome. I'm still interested, but I'll wait for version 2.0 haha

 

[Squeeg]

Not a standard computer power cord. It's more like a coaxial cable with a round 3 pin male/female connection.
My aquaponics is set up for a 6'1" basement, so there is no gravity fed anything. I have to use a pump from my tank and a pump from my little sump tank back into fish tank. I'm running a swirl filter mostly, but when the water gets mucky I run it through cloth fish tank filtration. When I finish my greenhouse this summer, I will document the total aquaponics build cause there's so many people that want to see what I'm up to.
Aquaponics is a pretty steep learning curve. If you want tropical fish like tilapia, your tank needs to be pretty warm, 80ish, so you will need to cool the water a bit before you put it into your media. Right now I use hydroton for my media, but will be crushing some leftover granite for the bulk of my food beds.
I'm very happy with the progress so far and the plants love it. I also use red wrigglers instead of a bio filter. The extra nutes from the castings doesn't seem to bother the koi I'm using. I have a smaller tank for breeding... Just a 50 gallon Rubbermaid container. Never know... Might just get that 1 in a million koi that will fetch $100k.
My new room is still being built and I will show my setup once I get that room going and do a journal
Aquaponics is pretty much the same everywhere you look on the net. The basics are the same, just fine tuning for individual needs

 

[Hiker]

Sounds cool. I still don't get why you want a bell siphon vs a pump. I guess they want to use less electricity?

What is the benefit of granite over the expanded clay?

I choose to grow the tastiest fish.

 

[Squeeg]

Granite because that's what I did for a living and can get all I want for free. Hydroton is fairly expensive, and I don't really need to keep that much moisture constant flow grow bed since the roots will always be in water. I am also off grid and run my aquaponics with all dc solar now. My grow room is a small diesel generator until I see what tesla motors puts out for their lithium ion home battery pack this year. Supposed to be stupid powerful but don't know yet.
Even in my greenhouse the fish will be underground just for ease of heating and cooling. But if I can get my water out of grow beds with a bell syphon and not use power, it saves me in the long run.

The controller and ability to control morning, afternoon and early evening light levels works well. Well, as long as the thing works....

 

[Hiker]

lol I'm excited about Tesla's new factory too! I don't think many people realize what a big deal that factory is. Sure, I like the cars and would love to have one someday, but what they are going to do to battery tech will change how humans use energy.

Right now, we ship energy around all sorts of ways. Electricity is one of the better ways to transport energy, but storage is an issue. This factory should help. My biggest concern now is where do we get all the lithium? OK I went and answered that question. Thank you Battery University!

I just saw the mention and it caught my eye. That's the first mention I've seen here, and I only rarely see/hear news stories about it.

 

[Squeeg]

Depending on the sun to shine to make your power is an iffy situation. Not being able to store what power you do make and can't use... Is a sad, sad loss. But 1 small array of a 5 inch battery at 93kwh? Yea I'll take 5 for starters. Throw on a pulsing phase charging unit on top of that.... Lots of new stuff to experiment with.
Retirement has it's perks.
I'm sure not many people do realize the impact of this indeed. Well, except the power conglomerates.
That's another reason I chose this particular light. No problems running off dc current, so it was advertised.
This could be the beginning of something good, or something very bad.

 

[Squeeg]

Well just pulled female end of cord apart. Suspicions confirmed. 18 gauge wire. This shit doesn't even pass North American standards code.
If you are using these power cords either on a 900 light like mine, or daisy chaining them together, I would highly recommend you change the cord for wattage draws over 400 watts. Mine is nearly double that draw. Ima go rip apart an old extension cord and put the female end on it. A hefty 10 gauge cord.
Now that the cord has cooled, it's stiff as a board meaning the insulation on the wires starting to get brittle.
Just unacceptable. I will do this today and let it run during the night and check back tomorrow.
Way to go David. Trying to burn my house down you clown.

 

[Techhead]

WOW, I may have been right. Hard for me to tell what may have been going on, but since the first time I heard the power cord was so hot I just figured something in the regulators was drawing too much current. Then when you said what the draw was supposed to be, and what gauge wire the cord was, well it just started to add up. If a cord is getting so hot it is breaking down it must have been dropping a lot of voltage. It would have been good to have taken a voltage check of just how much loss there was, my guess would be 20V because most electronics start to fail after about 95V. Just put anything digital on a veriak and try it, it will start going nuts in one way or another.
Keep me posted, I have a lot of curiosity on this one.

 

[Squeeg]

Cord is ready for tonight's trial. Small set screw was stripped and I had to jerryrig a temporary fix until I can run into town and get a replacement. Is a problem living 20 miles from nowhere, but sure is quiet.
Yea being smaller wires creates too much draw and heat. I don't see 10 gauge ever getting hot unless I'm pumping 2500 watts or more through it. This was my old electric 90 pound Bosch jackhammer cord. It has taken a beating over the years, been run over by everything and still works. Will give old cord to tech buddy to tell whatever it is and what it is rated at watt wise.

Besides the problems with the unit and the problems of the reseller, I still love this lights actual performance. It puts my old 1000w hps to shame. My critical kush is so happy happy. In 5 days I can tell the difference in bud girth and resin creation. I really wish I got multiple smaller lights for starting. I have to basically keep a flat topped surface and can't really just add a new plant when I want or can because of limited ceiling height and the grow beds for the aquaponics is stationary and I can't move that up or down.
Once I get room 2 done and have the chance to do that in the second room, I can use big light for a massive scrog test. With the overall size, wattage and lumens from this light, that should prove to be interesting.

 

[Hiker]

I bet you find your problems are solved. Sure sounds like you had a bunch of factors all contributing to your issues. A small part of me feels bad for David. If he could realize these cords are bad, he may have been able to make more customers of this model happy. Maybe it didn't even need to be discontinued?

 

[Squeeg]

They just categorized the power cords as general usage is what I think. Use a small one for say the 270 or 400 model, but don't think about it once you've made the big 900, just ship the power cord that is used in all of the smaller units.
I'm assuming the small jumpers for daisy chaining would be no good as well, in a larger setup.

 

[Techhead]

10 gauge is over kill to say the least. For others out there with this light, and problems 6' of 14G should do the trick, but 10 will not hurt in the least. I figure most people don't have an old jackhammer laying around. The engineers are suppose to overbuild things, not underbuild. What were they thinking anyway.