Leaves twisting & curling?
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- #42
rimtasseras
New Member
Here are some images of these spots under the microscope 20x and 800x. the brighter pics are under the leafs and darker the top of them. Hard to say what it is but i checked for so long and didnt see anything that looks like bugs, and nothing is moving either as i suppose if they eat leaves their movement should be visible under 800x scope
Nice shots.
We are just being extra careful since the mites are devious little buggers.
PH is fine ? no possible lock out because of high PH ? the run off water did you test it?
We are just being extra careful since the mites are devious little buggers.
PH is fine ? no possible lock out because of high PH ? the run off water did you test it?
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- #44
rimtasseras
New Member
See i was using drinking water from supermarket which has arround 50ppm and i ph it down to arround 6.2-6.5ph.
And one day i was flushing other two autoflowering plants and noticed that the runnoff was arround 4.something ph. Which shocked me. So i started watering all the plants with water at arround 7 and up ph to make it up. And i believe then it might have started to be honest. So yesterday i watered with original 6.2 ph as i dont know what else to do really
And one day i was flushing other two autoflowering plants and noticed that the runnoff was arround 4.something ph. Which shocked me. So i started watering all the plants with water at arround 7 and up ph to make it up. And i believe then it might have started to be honest. So yesterday i watered with original 6.2 ph as i dont know what else to do really
Since you have flushed and looked seriously for bugs (even in soil) and checked PH (which you need to continue doing with my humble little experience) and just ware and feed after,,just wait and see.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I went back to look over this journal and found the clue that I originally missed, and as it turns out, the source of your problems.
The clue that you recently gave about the run off pH was what got me looking, knowing that we had all missed something vital. Good job on the microscope too... and that clearly shows a lack of bug droppings... the problem looks to be internal.
Then I found it. You are not using soil. You are using a hydroponic grow medium. Then, to compound this problem, I believe you went to the FoxFarm nutes... did you get soil or hydro versions of this product?
Your run off showed us that you are experiencing a dramatic pull down of your pH... not at all what would happen in a soil environment, and not at all what the soil nutes need to break their bonds and become available to the plants.
Luckily, you have been all over the place with your pH, and somehow you have been managing to get just enough nutrients available to keep the plants alive, but as the spotting is showing us, something is deficient... and I suspect it to be calcium... but exactly what is deficient is unimportant at the moment. You need to get your grow dialed in fast so that any nutrient the plant wants and needs will be able to be found mobile in your mix.
It is my recommendation that you need to immediately begin to consider your grow as a hydro grow... not soil. Your proper pH range then shifts to 5.5-6.1, centered on 5.8. Get the hydro versions of your nutes so that their chemical (salt) bonds can break down properly in this range, soil nutrients will not work correctly. You will find that the peat based medium that you have chosen will stop fighting you so much as soon as you start working within the range it was designed for, and I believe that most of your problems will go away as soon as you make these changes.
Sorry I missed this earlier, but even the name of the stuff is misleading, and I should have read more carefully and looked it up when you first mentioned it, like I did this time. PLANT MAGIC PLUS SUPREME SOIL WITH GROWING STIMULANT- HYDROPONIC GROWING MEDIUM. It does say soil after all...
You can fix this... just adjust to the new paradigm immediately.
The clue that you recently gave about the run off pH was what got me looking, knowing that we had all missed something vital. Good job on the microscope too... and that clearly shows a lack of bug droppings... the problem looks to be internal.
Then I found it. You are not using soil. You are using a hydroponic grow medium. Then, to compound this problem, I believe you went to the FoxFarm nutes... did you get soil or hydro versions of this product?
Your run off showed us that you are experiencing a dramatic pull down of your pH... not at all what would happen in a soil environment, and not at all what the soil nutes need to break their bonds and become available to the plants.
Luckily, you have been all over the place with your pH, and somehow you have been managing to get just enough nutrients available to keep the plants alive, but as the spotting is showing us, something is deficient... and I suspect it to be calcium... but exactly what is deficient is unimportant at the moment. You need to get your grow dialed in fast so that any nutrient the plant wants and needs will be able to be found mobile in your mix.
It is my recommendation that you need to immediately begin to consider your grow as a hydro grow... not soil. Your proper pH range then shifts to 5.5-6.1, centered on 5.8. Get the hydro versions of your nutes so that their chemical (salt) bonds can break down properly in this range, soil nutrients will not work correctly. You will find that the peat based medium that you have chosen will stop fighting you so much as soon as you start working within the range it was designed for, and I believe that most of your problems will go away as soon as you make these changes.
Sorry I missed this earlier, but even the name of the stuff is misleading, and I should have read more carefully and looked it up when you first mentioned it, like I did this time. PLANT MAGIC PLUS SUPREME SOIL WITH GROWING STIMULANT- HYDROPONIC GROWING MEDIUM. It does say soil after all...
You can fix this... just adjust to the new paradigm immediately.
Good catch Em 
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- #48
rimtasseras
New Member
Im so confused now to be honest
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
yes, but that is why we are here...
think of some questions so that we can clear up the confusion for you... I will be playing here all morning.
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- #50
rimtasseras
New Member
Well foxfarm fertilizers that i have says fits both hydro and soil. Also using plant magic magne-cal+ that fits soil and hydro too so i doubt it could be calcium deficiency. So basically i don't know what to do and what to change 
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
Well foxfarm fertilizers that i have says fits both hydro and soil. Also using plant magic magne-cal+ that fits soil and hydro too so i doubt it could be calcium deficiency. So basically i don't know what to do and what to change
FoxFarm has 3 main nutrients in their line, and you are right... two of them can be used in either soil or hydro... but the main nutrient for plants in veg is their Grow Big product, and there is most definitely a separate hydro and soil version of this product. Tiger Bloom and Big Bloom can be used at the pH level that you need to adjust to, but not the Grow Big.
If you are not using all 3 products, mixed together as recommended by the FoxFarm feeding schedule, then you really are not using FoxFarm products as they were meant to be used.
Also, it is good that you are using a cal-mag supplement, but if you are not in the proper pH range, you can have your plants swimming in a pool of the stuff and it will do no good. You can doubt that it is calcium that you are seeing the plants need right now if you wish, but look at your plant dispassionately and try to explain the damage you are seeing some other way. It has to be something, right? As I said before, at this point it really doesn't matter much what is deficient, because we know that a whole range of things are likely to be lacking in this environment that has been forced to work at the wrong pH range. It was and remains my suggestion for you to adjust the pH first and immediately, make sure you are using nutes that work in the hydro range, and THEN and ONLY THEN, start attacking any deficiencies that still might be presenting themselves. It is my theory that once you get the incoming pH adjusted to your grow medium, and use the proper nutrients, all of your problems will go away. Fix the basics first... and then see if you still have a problem. Here is a chart to help you understand nutrient mobility at both the soil and the hydro pH ranges:
As you can see in this chart, in a hydroponic medium if your pH is much over 5.8, calcium is locked out. So is molybdenum. When you water with 7.0 (unadjusted water), magnesium, phosphorus, iron... all sorts of things are locked out, but then your soilless medium drags the pH down to where some of it can be used. You will find that if you stop fighting your grow medium and adjust the pH to the middle of the hydro range, and use the nutes designed to be used in that acidic range, that things will go much better for you... I would bet the farm on it.
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- #52
rimtasseras
New Member
At veg stage i was using foliage pro dyna gro pproduct. After switching to flowering i am now using tiger bloom, big bloom and calmag.
so its nitrogen phosphate potash magnesium boron copper iron manganese zinc and calcium. Looking at the chart it seems that its quite impossible to get all the nutrients to the plant. If my pH is much over 5.8, Calcium is locked out and also Manganese but if i go down to 5.6 then Magnesium is locked out. Im sorry if some of my statements sounds silly but consider its my first ever grow and no one apart from google and youtube taught me how its done so i need help
so its nitrogen phosphate potash magnesium boron copper iron manganese zinc and calcium. Looking at the chart it seems that its quite impossible to get all the nutrients to the plant. If my pH is much over 5.8, Calcium is locked out and also Manganese but if i go down to 5.6 then Magnesium is locked out. Im sorry if some of my statements sounds silly but consider its my first ever grow and no one apart from google and youtube taught me how its done so i need help
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
At veg stage i was using foliage pro dyna gro pproduct. After switching to flowering i am now using tiger bloom, big bloom and calmag.
so its nitrogen phosphate potash magnesium boron copper iron manganese zinc and calcium. Looking at the chart it seems that its quite impossible to get all the nutrients to the plant. If my pH is much over 5.8, Calcium is locked out and also Manganese but if i go down to 5.6 then Magnesium is locked out. Im sorry if some of my statements sounds silly but consider its my first ever grow and no one apart from google and youtube taught me how its done so i need help
Are you following the recommended mix of the products for the week of your grow? FoxFarm is pretty good about telling you exactly what to do at each stage of the grow.
I think the piece of information you need to help you understand what happens, is that pH is designed to drift in our grow mediums. The pH that you adjust your incoming liquids to is the starting point of that drift, and usually it will drift upwards. Depending on the stability of your system, this drift can be fast or slow, but the point of this drift is so that between waterings, the pH will move through the range of pH designed to be used by your grow medium. If you start at 5.8, over time the actual pH of your container will drift up toward 6.1, picking up the nutrients that are needed along the way.
Also, don't feel silly asking questions... on your first grow you should be asking all the questions you can think of, and luckily, you have come to the right place. Also, please keep in mind that on google and youtube you are only getting one person's OPINION on what you should do... on a forum such as this, responders are under a lot more peer pressure to lead you in the right direction and not blow smoke at you. When someone such as me comes in here and says, hold on, stop the presses... whoa dude... you are doing this all wrong... there is quite a bit of peer pressure to get this right. I am not just an anonymous short film producer on social media who doesn't have to answer to you... if I lead you astray, my reputation on this forum is at risk... and because of that, I am going to do everything I can do to give you the god honest truth and what I feel are my very best recommendations. You already see that at least one person has "liked" my earlier recommendation, and called it a good catch. Please pay special attention to this, as well as the lack of anyone arguing against what I have said here. Online forums are a tough place to blow smoke at someone and get away with it... and I would not try to mislead you anyway... it is bad karma to do so.
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- #54
rimtasseras
New Member
Cant thank enough for that Emilya, really.
I understand the drift proccess now but does it always go up? As i previously mentioned i water with 6.5 but the runnoff is somewhere between 4ph - 5ph. Or thr runnof ph doesnt matter in this case? So if i start yo water with 5.8 thr runnof will go to 3ph :|
I understand the drift proccess now but does it always go up? As i previously mentioned i water with 6.5 but the runnoff is somewhere between 4ph - 5ph. Or thr runnof ph doesnt matter in this case? So if i start yo water with 5.8 thr runnof will go to 3ph :|
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
I know it seems like that is what will happen, but it won't. The peat and moss in your soilless product will only pull it down to a certain point, but it is going to be right in the range that you want your fluids to be in that 5.5-6.1 range. When the organics are no longer fighting to pull your fluids down into that range, you will find that they instead tend to drift upward... this was designed into your mix. Another thing to consider, is that of course runoff is going to be different than what you put in... that runoff water had to percolate through the soil mix to get there. Don't think however that this measurement has anything to do with the actual pH inside of the container... all the runoff can do is show you when there is a big problem, just like it did in this case. The reading is mostly useless however, when things are running correctly.
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