Mars-Hydro DWC 1 Plant 4x4 Scrog

[Jon]

I was reading thread from some about which gets added first in a two part nutrient line.
I when back in my old notes and found this.


Preparing and adding nutrients. Hydro

Just thought I would post this up... was doing some reading and stumbled across an online article that I found years ago that really helped me understand who & why to add my nutrients & additives in a particular order.

It’s not the be-all-end-all, do this or you will fail type of tip because there are so many ways to successfully grow our plant its retarded, but it’s something to stimulate your cerebral cortex.

Making up your nutrient solution is a regular job for hydroponic growers – and most of us probably think we know what we’re doing – right? Just like how most of us are familiar with the phrase, “falling at the last hurdle”! Because unless you know exactly how to deploy your hydroponic nutrients, that’s exactly what you could be doing.

Shortcuts are all too tempting to fall into when you’ve been growing for a while. And if you’re not making up your nutrient solution properly you could well be impeding the performance of your nutrients. This is particularly important for growers using multi-part nutrients (e.g., two-parts and three-parts) as these can be more complex than many gardeners think.

Multi-part nutrient guidelines

1. Do not combine concentrated nutrients in too little water.

Think about it for a second. Two and three-part nutrients come in separate “parts” for a reason! If they come into contact with each other when still concentrated (or in too little water) you will see a white precipitate form and, depending on the formulation, this can happen well within a minute or so.

Try this for yourself – mix an equal volume of each part in a glass, undiluted. You’ll quickly see precipitate start to form. The majority of the precipitate is typically calcium sulfate. Now, add more water and see if it will dissolve. The longer you delay dilution, the more difficult (or impossible) dissolution becomes.

Your plants can only use nutrients that are fully dissolved in the water. So, all that precipitate represents food that your plants can no longer access. Along with poor pH control, this is a cause of the white precipitate within the body of the nutrient. Therefore, to prevent this, always add the majority of water before combining nutrients.

Additionally, always stir well before each subsequent part is added. Note that the source of white precipitate above the water line, on the surface of media and equipment (e.g., clay pebbles) is salt deposition from evaporation. Notably, the amount of precipitation from this source is greater at higher (EC) nutrient concentration.



2. Which comes first: A or B?

My advice is that you should always add the part containing the phosphate first.

This is because the addition sequence of each nutrient ‘part’ can affect nutrient stability, particularly if your water has high alkalinity. “Alkalinity” (bicarbonate & carbonate) is the component of natural waters that causes high ph.

Adding the nutrient dose to high alkalinity water can decrease the stability of several nutrient species (including calcium, sulfate, iron, copper, manganese, zinc). Therefore, rather than trying to pre-adjust the pH of the water (often a very difficult task – pH adjustment is better done after all nutrients and additives have been added) it is preferable to first add that part of the nutrient that lowers pH the most.

This is usually the part that contains the phosphate. In two-part nutrients this is usually part “B”. So, there you have it. “B” comes before “A” after all! However, make sure you check with your particular brand. Note that the “part” without any phosphate will normally have relatively little impact on ph.

Secondly, it usually contains the iron which is highly unstable at pH levels much above ~6.5.

Note, in three-part nutrients the phosphate is sometimes dispersed across two bottles. Therefore, if you really want to be accurate, determine which contains the highest concentration of phosphate, and add that first.

3. Add equal amounts of each part.

Avoid “roughly measuring” out the nutrient dose. An excess of one nutrient species does not compensate for deficiencies in another. In the case of a two-part, ‘under’ dosing part ‘B’ for example, could cause a deficiency in over half the nutrients required (i.e., P, K, S and all of the trace elements excluding iron).

This problem is compounded with two and three-parts because the dose volumes for each part will be roughly one-half to one-third (respectively) of what it would otherwise be if using a one-part. Therefore, without appropriate measuring equipment, when small tank volumes are being used the dosing error can be significant.

To some growers, the additional complexity of two and three-part formulations is an interesting challenge. To others, who want to make their lives a little simpler, the idea of dosing using multiple parts isn’t so appealing. Certainly, using a high quality one-part formula readily ensures an optimal balance of nutrients and, as a result, one-part nutrient products are increasing in appeal among growers.

Whatever type of nutrient you prefer, you should always follow the following dosing guidelines:
➢ Thoroughly stir the nutrient.
Always stir immediately after the addition of nutrient, additives or top-up water. Doing so will eliminate high zonal concentrations of the less soluble nutrient species. Further, it removes zones of extreme pH (either high or low), thereby preventing the destabilization of nutrients that are unstable outside of the optimum pH window of 5.0-6.5.
➢ Be diligent with ph.

This is probably the most crucial area of nutrient management.

➢ Be cautious when using additives with a high ph.

I don’t mean to be alarmist here as it’s important to note that essentially all additives will affect nutrient pH at least slightly. The best technique to adopt with those that elevate pH significantly (e.g., silica, PK additives) is to add them to the water and adjust the pH down to ~6 prior to adding the nutrient.

Another less preferred but common alternative is to pre dilute the additive in a separate volume of raw water prior to adding to the nutrient solution, then quickly lower the pH to below 6.5 once this solution is added. Note, a white cloudy precipitate (calcium sulfate) may form when the pre-diluted additive initially merges with the nutrient solution. However, because the initial particle size of the precipitate is small, it will usually re-dissolve if the pH is immediately re-adjusted

Hope this helps.

Stay safe, and Grow well my friends,

Tok..

I'm not a hydro guy, but Tok, this post is amazing. THANKS man! GREAT information that is explained very clearly. Makes sense. I'm keeping this for a bit of a reference point when I eventually make the inevitable switch to hydro. Bet it's way useful for those doing hydro. Good stuff man. Excellent public service announcement.

 

[copperrein]

Your Blues Brothers looks so damn good, Tok!

 

[Tokin Roll]

Thanks for stopping by @copperrein

She is coming along nicely, but I don't think she has enough sativa in her to fill in the corners all the ways. My quest is a 36 to 40 inch canopy, but you never know I still have a week and a half to go.

Also, congratulations on the JGJotM.

Stay safe, and grow well my friend,

Tok..

 

[Tokin Roll]

Time for an update.

The Blues Brothers is stretching nicely, but I don't think is going to have enough to reach all for corners, we'll see. The reason I say this is because Indica pre-dominant strains does not always have the stretch needed to spread out all the way; but I still have a week and a half of stretch to go.


The solution drop is roughly 200 to 300 ppm's per lights on and drinking almost a 1 1/2 gallons.
Solution drop when lights are off between 1/2 and 3/4 a gallon and about 100 ppm's.

@Blue Planet Nutrients are a blessing and a breeze to use. When the solution drops 200+ and I feed her the ph has always land just were it is suppose to be.

My @ViparSpectra XS-2000 is great, not big enough to handle a 4x4 tent on its own, but it still is a strong and reliable LED.

The images below were taken over the last three or 4 days.

That's all folk's.

Stay safe, and grow well my friends,

Tok..

 

[Jon]

Time for an update.

The Blues Brothers is stretching nicely, but I don't think is going to have enough to reach all for corners, we'll see. The reason I say this is because Indica pre-dominant strains does not always have the stretch needed to spread out all the way; but I still have a week and a half of stretch to go.


The solution drop is roughly 200 to 300 ppm's per lights on and drinking almost a 1 1/2 gallons.
Solution drop when lights are off between 1/2 and 3/4 a gallon and about 100 ppm's.

@Blue Planet Nutrients are a blessing and a breeze to use. When the solution drops 200+ and I feed her the ph has always land just were it is suppose to be.

My @ViparSpectra XS-2000 is great, not big enough to handle a 4x4 tent on its own, but it still is a strong and reliable LED.

The images below were taken over the last three or 4 days.

That's all folk's.

Stay safe, and grow well my friends,

Tok..

Damn that's a thing of beauty. Look how sweetly that middle filled in. Wow. Super impressed.

 

[Tokin Roll]

Thanks for stopping by @Jon

I just dropped a Dinafem Dinamex seed for my next DWC. Looks like it may be a New Years smoke.

Will you be trying to scrog this way? If so, tag me so I can follow along.

Tok..

 

[Jackobite]

Good Day all in 420 magazine world.

A few individuals have been asking me about my current grow, well I don't have one.

This will take a couple weeks of so to set up everything, I have plan's.

What are my plans you say; well I think it time for me try test myself to the limits. One plant in a 4x4 tent, DWC (more info. to come) with a dyi scrog that measure the same size as the tent. I am sure this has been accomplished before, but you never hear is said. So lets see if I can get my foot out of my mouth on this one.

Let the fun begin.

Tok..

Goodluck with the grow ✌

 

[Jon]

Thanks for stopping by @Jon

I just dropped a Dinafem Dinamex seed for my next DWC. Looks like it may be a New Years smoke.

Will you be trying to scrog this way? If so, tag me so I can follow along.

Tok..

I am not trying it on this grow, although I'm kind of trying to duplicate the ring thing you had going on with the plant right when you flipped her. Once I get her to that and at the height I want, I'll figure out from there how to fix it without a screen so I get a similar result. A scrog without the scrog. Real hard for me to access half the tent once I install a screen and can no longer move the plant. That cost me on my first scrog attempt so this grow was to try it without a screen. Btw, I stop by with frequency, lol. Anyway, on the next grow I may very well try to do it your way. If so it would be a one plant in a 5x5 in soil in a 10 gallon pot. I'd be attempting to fill a 5x5. Pretty sure it can be done and that it can be done by me. So if I go that route, I was actually going to tag you for more than a follow, lol. I'll need your help and expertise. Cool?

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

@Tokin Roll is cooler than the other side of the pillow Amigo! Plants are rocking as always.
Love it when you two start conversing on here dropping knowledge bombs and screenshot material @Jon
I need to update my journal. But every time I open the door on my closet a “test” bud screams at me. Ha! It’s a good thing. Peace

NTH

 

[Tokin Roll]

Anyway, on the next grow I may very well try to do it your way. If so it would be a one plant in a 5x5 in soil in a 10 gallon pot. I'd be attempting to fill a 5x5.

It took me some time to get the scrog net to work for me, but once I did I fell in love with it.

I believe you will be able to fill that 5x5, but it's going to take a long veg period, guesting 3 or 4 months at least in soil.
DWC I average a 6 to 8 week veg. period, and depending on the strain it normally fills the 4x4 net or close to it.

I will be looking for that soil grow.

tok..

 

[Tokin Roll]

Thanks for stopping by @Nine Toed Hippie

Anyway, on the next grow I may very well try to do it your way. If so it would be a one plant in a 5x5 in soil in a 10 gallon pot. I'd be attempting to fill a 5x5. Pretty sure it can be done and that it can be done by me. So if I go that route, I was actually going to tag you for more than a follow, lol

I would enjoy that and the challenge to help you fill that net.

At least 90%.

 

[Tokin Roll]

@Tokin Roll is cooler than the other side of the pillow Amigo! Plants are rocking as always.
Love it when you two start conversing on here dropping knowledge bombs and screenshot material @Jon
I need to update my journal. But every time I open the door on my closet a “test” bud screams at me. Ha! It’s a good thing. Peace

I have a lot of notes and often forget about them, until I read about it in someone else thread.

The reason I put it in my thread, and not theirs is next time it will be easier to locate.

I can hear the bud screaming, you need to do something about that.

Tok..

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

It took me some time to get the scrog net to work for me, but once I did I fell in love with it.

I believe you will be able to fill that 5x5, but it's going to take a long veg period, guesting 3 or 4 months at least in soil.
DWC I average a 6 to 8 week veg. period, and depending on the strain it normally fills the 4x4 net or close to it.

I will be looking for that soil grow.

tok..

3-4 months of veg! It damn well better fill up something!

 

[Tokin Roll]

3-4 months of veg! It damn well better fill up something!

Thanks for stopping by @Grand Daddy Black I believe it can be done, I haven't tried it,

That's a gestimation; my soil grows vegs are normally around 6 or 7 weeks indoors, depending on growth. That being said, Sativa strain do much better under scrog; it would probably be more a decision, than a goal of long veg period.

I haven't scrog one in soil because that rate of growth. Maybe after I refill all my jars I'll try one with a 2x4 net.

 

[Tokin Roll]

Good Morning all,

I have had company for the holiday, so I was not able to do my regular updates.

So let's get to it.

I did a solution changed today with a ppm of 1480 @ 5.7 ph.
Included 8 ml of grow, 10 ml of micro, and 15 ml of bloom per gallon.

I have be using Purpinator at about 45 ml per bucket.

Sorry about the poor update, but here are some images of what's going on.

That's all folk's

Stay safe, and grow well my friends,

Tok..

Day 21 of flower will be on Saturday and time to thin out the canopy a little for penetration.

 

[Jon]

Good Morning all,

I have had company for the holiday, so I was not able to do my regular updates.

So let's get to it.

I did a solution changed today with a ppm of 1480 @ 5.7 ph.
Included 8 ml of grow, 10 ml of micro, and 15 ml of bloom per gallon.

I have be using Purpinator at about 45 ml per bucket.

Sorry about the poor update, but here are some images of what's going on.

That's all folk's

Stay safe, and grow well my friends,

Tok..

Day 21 of flower will be on Saturday and time to thin out the canopy a little for penetration.

In what way is this a "poor" update? This is one of the most gorgeous one plant scrogs I've seen yet. You even do sort of the photo time lapse thing, which is awesome. Just started doing that too. God, I know I have sought scrog advice from one of the right people. This is unreal. And I was wondering when you were gonna defol and specifically (on this one the more specific the better for me, lol, including specific pictures when they're helpful?) WHAT you were going to take away. But damn is that a thing of beauty. They look so badass before a defol session. Wow man, super impressed.

 

[Rexer]

I agree with Jon @Tokin Roll

Looks damn fine to me, ain't nothing to apologize for!!!

And Jon i also agree- Tok explains scrogs extremely well. Probably one of the better write ups I've seen on how to do one!

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

What @Rexer and @Jon said!

Scrogtastic!!!

 

[oldmanjj]

Nice work @Tokin Roll

 

[Tokin Roll]

And I was wondering when you were gonna defol and specifically (on this one the more specific the better for me, lol, including specific pictures when they're helpful?)

When I scrog like this, day 21 of flower is defol. day; after all the stretch is completed.

In what way is this a "poor" update?

I feel better now but the last couple days I been feeling like shit, and couldn't bring myself to do a good update. I will do another update Saturday after the stretch is done.

Stay safe, and grow well my friends,

Tok..