New grower needing some starting tips

[PlanetJ]

Hey all ! First of all, thanks for this wealth of information you have here. Much appreciated!

Could someone look over what I gathered from a bunch of sources and comment on my planning ?


I am planning on getting setup with a small-scale operation .. 5 plants at most is what I'm thinking about, prolly on eor two to start with. I want to run as light as possible on the electricity department, and figured I should be looking for either a CFL or a LED setup. Currently leaning towards CFL's, but that could be because my information is dated .. I plan on using 5 lamps per plant, using 2900lm 6500K for the growstage and 1100lm 2700K for the flowering stage. I probably double up on lamps in the flowering stage, due to lower wattage consumptions and lumen output on that set.

I think I want to use soil, as I'm guessing it's less expensive in the nutrient department, but since I'm completely new to growing, I could be very wrong there.

I want to use a DIY yeast-based CO2 generator, using tubing around and above the plants.

I plan on using mylar as reflective surface for my to be constructed growbox.

I was thinking about using a few computer fans to provide the air circulation, given that LED's or CFL's dont seem to produce a lot of heat.

I'm also thinking about making the room airtight and connecting a hose to my home ventilation system while leaving only small ports in the box, to effectively create (a slight) underpressure in my growbox and venting the odors directly outside at roof level.

I plan on using regular PH strips to monitor my soil, and use my eyes and a list of symptoms to gauge my nutrient balance.


The end result is going to be processed into a VG 'tincture', meant to be used in a e-cig style vaporizer, after decarbing the product and using heat cycle extraction.


Since I collected this plan from bits and pieces found just about everywhere, I'd like someone to take a critical look at this, and set me straight where I FUBAR

Thanx in advance! (Also, any tips are appreciated)

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Re: N00b needing some starting tips

PlanetJ and !

Reading through what you have there, I can comment on one thing for sure. The tin foil will not do you justice as a reflective surface. It will create hot spots and does not reflect well.
If you don't have mylar, you can use the emergency blankets which are very inexpensive and can be purchased at places like Walmart in the sporting goods area.
Or you can try a local grow supply house and buy mylar by the foot. It comes in either white or foil type for reflection.
I'm sure you will get other comments on what you have planned, that's just what I see as an improvement to the over all plan.
Have fun!

 

[PlanetJ]

Re: N00b needing some starting tips

Thanks for the reply .. I'll go with mylar then Thanks.


Also, I seem to have posted this in the wrong forum .. could someone move it over to the FAQ area ? Sorry

 

[Lady Cannafan]

Re: N00b needing some starting tips

Thanks for the reply .. I'll go with mylar then Thanks.


Also, I seem to have posted this in the wrong forum .. could someone move it over to the FAQ area ? Sorry

If you click on the little triangle icon below your post you can "report post" and ask the moderators to move the thread to the FAQ'S.
Give them time, they are very busy here in the background fighting spam and such.
Take care!

 

[Operative420]

Hey all ! First of all, thanks for this wealth of information you have here. Much appreciated!

Could someone look over what I gathered from a bunch of sources and comment on my planning ?


I am planning on getting setup with a small-scale operation .. 5 plants at most is what I'm thinking about, prolly on eor two to start with. I want to run as light as possible on the electricity department, and figured I should be looking for either a CFL or a LED setup. Currently leaning towards CFL's, but that could be because my information is dated .. I plan on using 5 lamps per plant, using 2900lm 6500K for the growstage and 1100lm 2700K for the flowering stage. I probably double up on lamps in the flowering stage, due to lower wattage consumptions and lumen output on that set.

I think I want to use soil, as I'm guessing it's less expensive in the nutrient department, but since I'm completely new to growing, I could be very wrong there.

I want to use a DIY yeast-based CO2 generator, using tubing around and above the plants.

I plan on using mylar as reflective surface for my to be constructed growbox.

I was thinking about using a few computer fans to provide the air circulation, given that LED's or CFL's dont seem to produce a lot of heat.

I'm also thinking about making the room airtight and connecting a hose to my home ventilation system while leaving only small ports in the box, to effectively create (a slight) underpressure in my growbox and venting the odors directly outside at roof level.

I plan on using regular PH strips to monitor my soil, and use my eyes and a list of symptoms to gauge my nutrient balance.


The end result is going to be processed into a VG 'tincture', meant to be used in a e-cig style vaporizer, after decarbing the product and using heat cycle extraction.


Since I collected this plan from bits and pieces found just about everywhere, I'd like someone to take a critical look at this, and set me straight where I FUBAR

Thanx in advance! (Also, any tips are appreciated)

cfl's are great
soil does not need to be PHed, ideally, tap water into a bucket, bubble it over night, add nutes, mix and pour, job done.
never let your soil get too dry, it becomes hydrophobic and will not soak right.

these three comments are interlinked.
DIY co2 is a pointless exercise in futility. either dont bother or go pro, there is no positive benefit/cost if you put a fiscal value on your time for diy set ups.
you are underestimating how much air flow plants need to flow over their leaves.
you are underestimating how powerful the smell is and how far it will travel and how easy it is to track you down with it.

all of the above thoughts should be replaced with a simple carbon filter and extractor that can replace the volume of air in your 'tent' at least once per twenty seconds, once every 10 seconds is great.

PC fans are novel, but the cost/overheads of a several hundred watt PSU supply is not efficient. just get some 15-20w mains fans from fleabay for internal air movement.


i would love to see a walk through of how to get my plants into my e cig, will be keeping an eye out

 

[joedaddy805]

Alos don't use ph strips save yourself the headache and just buy a digital ph meter. i got for 10 buck on th-e-bay. the stripa are not accurate enough. and how many cfl's do you plan on running.

 

[joedaddy805]

These charts are helpful for figuring things out. KingJohnC posted it on one of my threads i though i would pass it on to you.

 

[PlanetJ]

i would love to see a walk through of how to get my plants into my e cig, will be keeping an eye out

Glycerin Extraction | Skunk Pharm Research LLC

Decarbed, it should work in an e-cig.

It seems that 'underestimated' is an understatement on the ventilation Carbon filters and an extractor .. Is that stuff expensive (incl to run)

These charts are helpful for figuring things out. KingJohnC posted it on one of my threads i though i would pass it on to you.

Thank you so much!! .. this will be printed on heavy paper and become my wallpaper

I was thinking on running 5 CFL's per plant in the growing stage, possibly up to 10 in the flowering stage due to lower lumen output on those lamps. I was thinking about a setup with lamps around the plant, at about half the height of the plants. (if that makes sense)

 

[PlanetJ]

DIY co2 is a pointless exercise in futility. either dont bother or go pro, there is no positive benefit/cost if you put a fiscal value on your time for diy set ups.

Given this: DIY CO2 generator I thought it wouldnt hurt to try ?

 

[joedaddy805]

if you are gonna do that many cfl do the math and see how much wattage you will be using you might be better off going with a real grow light.

 

[David Bowman]

I use a sugar/yeast DIY CO2 generator (1 cup sugar/1 tsp yeast/2 liter bottle) during vegging and based on the readings of my CO2 detector, I do see an increase in the CO2 PPM within the grow environment. On average, it doubles the PPM over the course of a week or so before the generator needs to be refreshed but it can reach upwards of 1500-2000 PPM during the early part of that week. However, without temperatures above 85° and a sealed grow environment with minimal exhausting to maintain the higher levels of CO2, there is no need for supplemental CO2. Will it hurt to add supplemental CO2? No, unless the PPM exceed the threshold for toxicity, which hard to do with a DIY generator. By all means try it out for yourself to see if there is any added benefit to your grow. I spent less than $2 running my CO2 DIY generator throughout 8 weeks of vegging and that is significantly less expensive than those CO2 bags which provide about the same amount of CO2 for up to 6 months

 

[PlanetJ]

if you are gonna do that many cfl do the math and see how much wattage you will be using you might be better off going with a real grow light.

In my initial 1-plant setup, that would be 5x 45w @ 2900 lm per bulb for a rough 14500 lm @ 225w combined.
The lower lumen flowering lamps use 20 watts per bulb .. so doubling up on those lamps would give me 10x 20w @ 1100 lm per bulb for a rough 11000 lm @ 200w combined.

I reconned that your average 600w growlamp setup with needed cooling, etc. would be far more expensive then me going crazy with CFL chandeliers. This being still relevant using more plants, as I can configure my lights per plant for an overall better exposure to those precious lumen, which is not all that easy if I go HPS or MH, since they cant be as close to the plants as CFL's and because of the added heat production that I will need to vent.

Am I in error here ?

 

[joedaddy805]

It was just a thought. You can always look for used stuff. When i first started i came across a hell of a deal. i got 2 tents one 4x8x7 another 6x4x6 5 1k hps ights and hoods and a R.O system for 300.00 then i got a ezclone 2 6 inch inline fans for 150.00 then bought a used digital ballast for 120.00 used for a half a grow season. So i guess thats why i brought it up.but i got a lot of good stuff for almost 600.00 one of the tents i got is worth 800.00.

But if you are limited on space cfls are the way to go. i use them right now for my plants that i have in veg also. you can see it in my sig 4 months of veg but i don't think I'm gonna do the 4 months need to flower these puppies and see what sex they are then go back to veg.


Also are you never said where or what size of room you are going to be growing in or maybe you did but just missed it.

 

[PlanetJ]

It was just a thought. You can always look for used stuff. When i first started i came across a hell of a deal. i got 2 tents one 4x8x7 another 6x4x6 5 1k hps ights and hoods and a R.O system for 300.00 then i got a ezclone 2 6 inch inline fans for 150.00 then bought a used digital ballast for 120.00 used for a half a grow season. So i guess thats why i brought it up.but i got a lot of good stuff for almost 600.00 one of the tents i got is worth 800.00.

The amount of money you are talking about there, is what I will probably be able to save if my el-cheapo setup works I cant afford those prices .. that's why my initial setup will prolly be with 1 plant .. two at most. I can scavenge most parts and would like to stay under € 100,- for my first try.

But if you are limited on space cfls are the way to go. i use them right now for my plants that i have in veg also. you can see it in my sig 4 months of veg but i don't think I'm gonna do the 4 months need to flower these puppies and see what sex they are then go back to veg.


Also are you never said where or what size of room you are going to be growing in or maybe you did but just missed it.

I havent decided on what to use as space .. I am thinking about my attick, and sealing off a small area there .. we work with meters over here .. and a meter is roughly 3.2 ft I think .. which would make the dimensions I'm currently thinking about somewhere near 3x4x6ish ft .. aka, as small as it can possibly be done

 

[joedaddy805]

Well post some pics once you get it all setup. ill be watching. i won't be of much help cause I'm just as new as you i don't give critical advice cause i don't want to screw anyones grow. i just point out what I've done and where its got me so far. but don't worry its kinda hard to kill these plants i think only a couple ways to kill it, don't water it or dig it out the ground I'm sure there is more but that just shows you how great these plants grow.

But good luck with your grow i hope it all works out for you. But just ask if you need help, someone will answer your questions there are some really knowledgeable people on here.

 

[Operative420]

Glycerin Extraction | Skunk Pharm Research LLC

Decarbed, it should work in an e-cig.

Thanks much, i will enjoy reading that.

It seems that 'underestimated' is an understatement on the ventilation Carbon filters and an extractor .. Is that stuff expensive (incl to run)

not really, a decent 240cmh fan is only 30 watts or so. a carbon filter will last a year and assume the fan will last 2.

I was thinking on running 5 CFL's per plant in the growing stage, possibly up to 10 in the flowering stage due to lower lumen output on those lamps. I was thinking about a setup with lamps around the plant, at about half the height of the plants. (if that makes sense)

you will only need 60-100w per plant during veg. 3 standard 23w cool light cfls do the job for anything upto 2 weeks of veg, use 5 only when you have to spread them out too thinly.

during flower, keep your blue lights on and add as many warm cfls as you can heat manage.
i find many small bulbs better than a couple of powerful ones in terms of yield per watt but the bigger bulbs are sooooooo much easier to work with when you have more than a couple of plants.

1x 125w cfl blue during veg and 1x 125w cfl blue and 2x 125w cfl red during flower(per plant if your letting them get big)...happy days

Given this: DIY CO2 generator I thought it wouldnt hurt to try ?

calculate how many hours over a grow your going to be fiddling and learning and cleaning that thing, convert it into money, say with the minimum wage as your standard....then compare that to getting 1 extra plant on the go, your better off financially AND havent wasted a few precious hours of your life because of bad time economics

 

[PlanetJ]

Thanks much, i will enjoy reading that.

The whole site is interesting. Loads of statistics, research, and hard numbers to help decide what way to go and what's best. Of special interest should be their articles on decarboxylation (hope I spelled that right)

not really, a decent 240cmh fan is only 30 watts or so. a carbon filter will last a year and assume the fan will last 2.

Are you talking those $25 in-line fans in a piece of 6" duct ?

you will only need 60-100w per plant during veg. 3 standard 23w cool light cfls do the job for anything upto 2 weeks of veg, use 5 only when you have to spread them out too thinly.

during flower, keep your blue lights on and add as many warm cfls as you can heat manage.
i find many small bulbs better than a couple of powerful ones in terms of yield per watt but the bigger bulbs are sooooooo much easier to work with when you have more than a couple of plants.

1x 125w cfl blue during veg and 1x 125w cfl blue and 2x 125w cfl red during flower(per plant if your letting them get big)...happy days

ADDVIVA ® E27 45W 2900lm 6500K Daglicht ESL / CFL 5.5T Half spiraal lamp (220-240V) - USD $ 11.99
E27 G95 20W 1100LM CRI> 80 2700K Warm Wit Licht Globe lamp (220-240V) - USD $ 14.99

These are the lamps I had in mind. Altho the second one is kinda huge and I'm still looking for a spiral version of that with comparable output, but since I'll prolly be growing 2 plants, I can manage these if I cant find them ... I hope

Where does your watt estimate per plant come from ? Is that not dependand on the lumen output of said lamps ? I am aiming for a comparable lumen output to 400w HPS or MH lamps in my planning to as low a wattage as possible .. am I missing something from the big picture ?

I will probably manhandle my plants from the get go (requesting advice as I go along probably ) as I want as small a space as possible .. I stumbled on this and will probably use this to start with and upsize it for 2 plants and 2 sets of lights, probably doubling up on exhaust fans and place DIY carbon filters on 'em

calculate how many hours over a grow your going to be fiddling and learning and cleaning that thing, convert it into money, say with the minimum wage as your standard....then compare that to getting 1 extra plant on the go, your better off financially AND havent wasted a few precious hours of your life because of bad time economics

Learning new things is fun, and a one-time investment, and from what I see I can create 10 of those in little to no time, in almost ready form, complete them as needed one at a time and set them up to a permanent gas release system, and discard them after they run dead .. the procedure to test if they still work is quite easy too and if only half of the testimonials are half true, it's worth the 30 minutes to set one up I'd say .. and given my budget, I'm not gonna be able to use a commercial option any time soon


Which gets me to humidity ... let's asume 1 plant, 5 cfl's and a small well ventilated space .. what temperature am I aiming for in my environment and how do I keep humidity where it's supposed to be ?


I hope I dont annoy you with critical questions, there is a lot of information out there, and some of it is contradicting other stuff .. whenever I get the chance I ask. Thank you for your time, it is much appreciated!

 

[SteveI]

I am planning on getting setup with a small-scale operation .. 5 plants at most is what I'm thinking about, prolly on eor two to start with. I want to run as light as possible on the electricity department, and figured I should be looking for either a CFL or a LED setup. Currently leaning towards CFL's, but that could be because my information is dated .. I plan on using 5 lamps per plant, using 2900lm 6500K for the growstage and 1100lm 2700K for the flowering stage. I probably double up on lamps in the flowering stage, due to lower wattage consumptions and lumen output on that set.

I have used both. CFL produce significantly more heat than the LED. I currently do a micro-grow in a large gaming PC chassis. I have 4 kick-ass delta computer fans (not your typical ones) to suck air out through a homemade carbon filter. One 23 watt CFL turns the box into an oven. 180 watts of LED, no problem. In the summer it can get into the high 90's at canopy level on the hottest days but I haven't seen any damage to the plants (it is in the 70-80's just below the canopy).

I think I want to use soil, as I'm guessing it's less expensive in the nutrient department, but since I'm completely new to growing, I could be very wrong there.

Yes and easier too. If you see my recent posts, I f'd up my current grow trying to do too much to my soil and should have left it simple. I will say though that my ebb and flow I used before that was fairly simple and I could leave it a week completely unsupervised (went on a european trip once for a week, came back and everything was green and fine!). Soil you have to water every other or third day.

I want to use a DIY yeast-based CO2 generator, using tubing around and above the plants.

No experience. For a first grow I would consider this too much complexity but that is a personal choice.

I plan on using mylar as reflective surface for my to be constructed growbox.

The biggest problem I have with mylar is I could only find it in a giant roll, which I did buy but now I got this huge roll of which I may have used 2% of. Also in my micro environment, the plant gets very tight in there so there is not much reflection off walls anyway.

I was thinking about using a few computer fans to provide the air circulation, given that LED's or CFL's dont seem to produce a lot of heat.

With 5 plants and a grow "room" you want to look at real ventilation/duct fans. If you do want to go with computer fans for some reason (e.g. 5V DC setup or something), look at Delta fans. DigiKey sells them. They have some models that rival duct fans in terms of power. I have 4 ganged and they sound like a jet engine. Regular PC fans you might buy off Amazon or Best Buy for $10 will not do anything.

I'm also thinking about making the room airtight and connecting a hose to my home ventilation system while leaving only small ports in the box, to effectively create (a slight) underpressure in my growbox and venting the odors directly outside at roof level.

That works, although do not underestimate the smell factor, even at roof height. I had my O3 turned off once and my clothes dryer running which exhausts my basement air. I came home and the freaking neighborhood smelled like weed with only 3 plants. That was scary.

I plan on using regular PH strips to monitor my soil, and use my eyes and a list of symptoms to gauge my nutrient balance.

Don't. Per the prior post, the bargain basement approach would be pH test drops. They will get you in the range, whereas a strip probably won't. Investing in a Hanna or other meter that does both pH and PPM is a great investment and brings piece of mind. Otherwise you spend too much time guessing. You have to maintain the meter properly though so be prepared or you will waste your $100-$300. You have to calibrate it, clean it, and make sure it is stored with some tap water in the cap or the probe will not function properly anymore.

 

[Operative420]

ADDVIVA ® E27 45W 2900lm 6500K Daglicht ESL / CFL 5.5T Half spiraal lamp (220-240V) - USD $ 11.99
E27 G95 20W 1100LM CRI> 80 2700K Warm Wit Licht Globe lamp (220-240V) - USD $ 14.99

These are the lamps I had in mind. Altho the second one is kinda huge and I'm still looking for a spiral version of that with comparable output, but since I'll prolly be growing 2 plants, I can manage these if I cant find them ... I hope

Where does your watt estimate per plant come from ? Is that not dependand on the lumen output of said lamps ? I am aiming for a comparable lumen output to 400w HPS or MH lamps in my planning to as low a wattage as possible .. am I missing something from the big picture ?

i dont like your choice of 2700k. the pictures of it lit on the link you gave show horrible variation of translucency on the bulb surface, looks like it would give a very uneven light distribution.

my watts come from hands on experience.
you can hold your hand on a 20w cfl and you can rest it within the foliage. if anyone says a 20w cfl is too hot, they clearly cant push enough air through their grow box.
i like to follow a simple rule for veging(when the seed cracks, thats day 1 of week 0), one cfl per week of veg. a tiny seedling only needs a single light,2 when its making its baby leaves, then just add one more light and redistribute evenly as you go by. my week 4 equates to roughly end of week 2 (flip time) on a biobizz feed chart.

im sorry if i offend anyone, but i will state again that trying to PH adjust for a soil plant is a waste of time and money.
SOIL SELF REGULATES.

if you want a nice simple first few grows. Allmix soil + biobiz feed + Rhizo pots + light + air + lots of water = 420 o'clock

dont waste money on any of the frilly crap like bloom boosters and ph adjusters and hydro, ESPECIALLY if your in a country where growing is illegal. none of that stuff can give you more bang for your buck than spending the same amount of money on more seeds and light. whats more all that stuff just makes you look more pro, which is very much not a good thing for a judge to think

humidity is very hard to control on a low budget if you have high air movement.
fastest way to drop the humidity is to put the heating on in the house your tent is contained in and hope you can manage the extra heat.
evaporating water and sprayers can get it up.

to be honest just hope and try to keep it around 50% if you can get it wetter than that during veg and a little dryer than that during flower then great, but dont stress too much till you can afford humidity equipment.
ive been growing for years and still havnt bothered, i just try to hold my waterings till the room feels dry.

 

[Operative420]

cannabis grows best at around 15c and in soil that is 80% of saturated.

Not too many on this site subscribe to those facts though.
they think our plant likes it dry which is wrong.
once i have cleared down my current schedule i will try and set up a 'lift the pot Vs always wet' side by side grow and demonstrate the difference.