Northern Lights Auto - Budget T5 & T8 Grow Box

[EndItAll]

All lights off in room.....just whats in the cabinet. I don't think my cam quite captures the prison-spotlight feeling when I crack open the doors. Top view of my light array, final count 7x 27w cfl 5000k, 1x 23w 2700k cfl, 4x 4' 32w T8 6500k, 1x 2' T5 32w 6500k total 372 real-watts out of wall, 800w equivalent in cfl's alone + the tubes. I think I've pushed this as far as my dear wife will allow for now.
Have 4x 32w 3000k 4' tubes ready to swat in once i get into flowering to try to push more yield.

 

[EndItAll]

#2 side and top views, as you can see it's doing mostly what it should, just slow. A bit concerned over the 2nd leaves being spiraly for lack of a better term. gave her a couple dozen ml of water at the base cause pot was super light, got about 5ml runoff so the pot is really dry, probably give her a bit more tomorrow around edges of pot.

 

[EndItAll]

And here's #1, the star of the show, drinking up her spotlight. Pot is VERY dry, she needs a drink tomorrow before she moves to her new home Friday. I can just barely see the beginnings of what will be the 6th set of leaves dead center.5th set of leaves still under 2mm long, really not much room @ 3/4 internode, still hopeful she'll grow enough overnight to gimme room to snip her but will accept fate if she doesn't and just go with LST.

 

[EndItAll]

Speaking of her new home, done prepping my bucket and refreshing my organic growth medium. Here are some shots of the ingredients I used to restore it to healthy nutrient levels after using it in my garden last season. The original base mix is my previously described Mel's Mix. Added in sea compost (seaweed and shrimp), cattle and sheep manure (composted of course), and mushroom compost. Ordinarily I would have added some of my homemade general compost, but the pile that's ready is way too deep in my snow farm, and the one I can reach (cleared a path all winter cause I'm still adding to it) isn't ready. Also would have preferred to add fresh worm castings but not in stock at the box stores this time of year and I haven't started a worm farm yet, on my to do list this summer. I also added 3 tbsp of used coffee grounds (half regular half decaf) / 5L of mix to boost nitrogen and will likely top-dress more in after the plant stabilizes post-transplant. Roughly 40% of finished mix is new fresh compost.

Finished product ready and waiting for a new resident. Lots of drainage holes, both bottom and side.

 

[EndItAll]

transplanted #1 to her new and final home without topping. she wasn't rootbound but she was starting to kiss the sides and bottom of her starter pot. fairly confident that the transplant stress will be minimal, it's exactly the same medium and I was ever so gentle. Will watch her close for the next few days. gave a tiny drink 4 hrs before the transplant and another tiny drink outside the rootball area after, no need for anymore, the fresh compost had PLENTY of moisture in it, will be at least 2 or 3 days before the bucket needs any watering. I have the lights a fair bit further away from her than usual, more like 5 or 6 inches instead of the usual 1 or 2. trying to encourage a bit more vertical growth out of her as she settles in.

 

[EndItAll]

#1 is still a bit smaller than I had been led by research to expect, but I believe I understand why. First, the cold. It's damn cold in here, I suspect that may have slowed her down some even if all else had been perfect. Second, I overwatered her, which gave her a bit of a slow grumpy few days. Thirdly, I transplanted her (which I have learned autos do not like, lesson learned for future autos). Put all these factors together, and I suspect I've just been abusing the poor girl more than nature built her to handle. I'm hopeful she'll bounce back and be the producer I know she can be, but if not at least I've got the practice and experience under my belt now.

#2 is coming along, leaves are still a bit twisty but not claw-hooked. Based on my reading I suspect it's due to nutrient rich soil, but apparently this sort of twisty leaf can also be a sign of under-nutrition. Wife says it's like trying to figure out if she's pregnant or about to start her cycle.....symptoms for both are pretty much the same.

Made up a batch of spray fertilizer from banana peels, eggshells and epsom salts, have a batch of home-made cal-mag brewing also, should be ready in 2 weeks. Going to give #1 a light foliar misting today, bucket is getting dry, full drink tomorrow by the feel of it.

 

[EndItAll]

Day 18 :

Today's shots of #1. secondary growth coming along, 6th set is about 1.5mm long, color is stable other than bottom-most set which is still a bit yellowish but getting back to green slowly. Put my hand in frame to give an idea of plant's size. Also, am I just a noob? Or are those early pre-flower pistils I'm seing in the secondary growth?


Day 10 :

#2 just chugging along doing its thing, slow and stable, 3rd set of leaves is out.

 

[EndItAll]

#1 is starting to take off, very happy with her progress, have started a very gentle LST on her to get more light in to the secondary undergrowth, seeing more and more new nodes, hoping now that I've stopped abusing her she's found her legs and will do some catching up, she's still smaller than pics of other plants I've seen from same strain/source at her age, but considering it's my first run, as I've said before, I'll be happy if i get an ounce out of her and satisfied if I get 7 grams dry. Learning curves are what they are.

#2 is transplanted to her final pot, going to give her a few days to rest and recover.

Odor is getting more and more noticeable, still contained to the room my cabinet is in and not very strong yet, but will have to get around to completing my carbon filter and exhaust assembly in the next week or 2. Have a ton of old PC fans laying around and a 12v power supply I intend to repurpose, still need filter materials, some flexible ducting, and a couple random pieces of hardware. Another 12v power supply with a better amp output would be ideal, only have enough to power 2 120mm fans atm, I'd like to have a total of 4, 2 @ the filter and 2 further down-line to act as boosters.

Side note : I had a friend donate some mystery seeds which I've germed and planted, no clue what strain, definitely not feminized so I'll be watching for gentlemen callers like a hawk. He had a few hundred, gave me about 30, all mystery bagseed. The adventure continues.

 

[Ziggii]

All lights off in room.....just whats in the cabinet. I don't think my cam quite captures the prison-spotlight feeling when I crack open the doors. Top view of my light array, final count 7x 27w cfl 5000k, 1x 23w 2700k cfl, 4x 4' 32w T8 6500k, 1x 2' T5 32w 6500k total 372 real-watts out of wall, 800w equivalent in cfl's alone + the tubes. I think I've pushed this as far as my dear wife will allow for now.
Have 4x 32w 3000k 4' tubes ready to swat in once i get into flowering to try to push more yield.

Sorry bro for the question but how you count those 800w in cfl couse I have 12 cfl bulbs of 45w each(this is what is writen couse I dont know how to see true watts) in a 1.5x1.5x2 m space plus 5 8w led full spectrum bulbs.Please help with the math here


..."Whoever sad best things in life are free...obviosly grew their own bud."...
Please help with lights

 

[EndItAll]

Hi Ziggii,

Never apologize for asking questions, there is no such thing as a stupid question, there are however stupid people who don't ask questions.

I cannot speak to how bulbs are packaged and described in Europe, but in NA there are 2 numbers on CFL packaging.
My cfl's are rated as 100w equivalents, which gives an idea of what sort of old-school incandescent bulb they are suitable for replacing, but their actual out of wall draw is 27w, which is the only number that actually matters when determining how much energy is available for the plants. That is why I clearly specify my real out of wall wattage as well as the cfl equivalent value. For total available energy usable by the plants. I am just around 400 real out-of-wall watts, which means the plants are getting about the same energy they would from a 400w MH or LED system. For how bright it is in my cabinet to the human eye, I am a bit over 800w equivalent. So I was not in any way trying to state that my plants are getting 800w of light, simply stating that it is REALLY bright in the box with 8x 100w equivalents.

A true draw of 45w on a cfl would give an equivalent amount of light to a 200w incandescent bulb, but for the math of how much light energy your plant/s have available, you only count the actual energy taken out of the wall, not the equivalent. So for your lights as you describe your true watts out of wall would be about 540 + the led's (led's are a bit trickier with the math so I won't factor those in), but your incandescent equivalent is closer to 2400, which tells me you probably need to wear sunglasses when working inside your box

 

[Ziggii]

Hi Ziggii,

Never apologize for asking questions, there is no such thing as a stupid question, there are however stupid people who don't ask questions.

I cannot speak to how bulbs are packaged and described in Europe, but in NA there are 2 numbers on CFL packaging.
My cfl's are rated as 100w equivalents, which gives an idea of what sort of old-school incandescent bulb they are suitable for replacing, but their actual out of wall draw is 27w, which is the only number that actually matters when determining how much energy is available for the plants. That is why I clearly specify my real out of wall wattage as well as the cfl equivalent value. For total available energy usable by the plants. I am just around 400 real out-of-wall watts, which means the plants are getting about the same energy they would from a 400w MH or LED system. For how bright it is in my cabinet to the human eye, I am a bit over 800w equivalent. So I was not in any way trying to state that my plants are getting 800w of light, simply stating that it is REALLY bright in the box with 8x 100w equivalents.

A true draw of 45w on a cfl would give an equivalent amount of light to a 200w incandescent bulb, but for the math of how much light energy your plant/s have available, you only count the actual energy taken out of the wall, not the equivalent. So for your lights as you describe your true watts out of wall would be about 540 + the led's (led's are a bit trickier with the math so I won't factor those in), but your incandescent equivalent is closer to 2400, which tells me you probably need to wear sunglasses when working inside your box

Wow bro thank you sooooo much I really understand now what you mean.When Ill have some other question Ill ask you again bro.Thanks one more time.


..."Whoever sad best things in life are free...obviosly grew their own bud."...
Please help with lights

 

[EndItAll]

Heh, I am by no means an expert, I'm just a polymath with a basic understanding of many subjects but an expert understanding of few.

Always glad to help tho, and at worst you can count on me to honestly answer "I don't know/I'm not sure" instead of bullshitting an answer that might hurt someone.

 

[EndItAll]

Finally got the last few bits I needed to call my cabinet finished, in process of painting, will assemble later and post pics of it and the girls after. Only thing left now is to get my carbon filters next time I run into town but have my improvised blower and filter mount built and wired. Took a while to find an unused 12v power supply with enough amp output. Going to need another power supply for the 2nd blower eventually but the prototype design seems good.

 

[EndItAll]

Lights out in the room, a few light leaks but nothing major and they'll be dealt with in short order. Not a major concern as the lights are never on in there unless i'm working in the box or grabbing a random tool, outside light is all blocked off.

Lights on to give an idea what we're looking at.

Exhaust blower mounted to box ceiling, it's a doubled up PC CPU fan, wired into a variable voltage power supply for multiple speed settings, kinda proud of this one actually. Exhaust hole will have a large jar lid with a large hole cut out mounted over it, jar will be perforated, wrapped in activated carbon sheeting, and screwed into lid in upside down position, so exhausted air will be blown through the filter. Once I get a 2nd power supply there will be a 2nd fan/filter assembly on the other side of the box as well, incense smoke test already shows negative pressure in box as all intake holes suck the incense smoke right in. Overall I'm happy with how my design works so far, true test will come with final filter installation but I'm confident all will work out.

Garden is expanding, 2 of the 4 mystery seeds I germed have sprouted, have to keep a close watch on them for gender, they are complete unknowns as far as strain and gender goes, don't want any gentlemen getting my ladies pregnant.

Speaking of my ladies, here's #2 in her new and final home, she is telling me that she REALLY didn't enjoy the move, hasn't grown at all in 3 days since transplant, but her shape and color are satisfactory so I assume once she gets over her shock she'll bounce back. Gave her a small-ish drink.

And last but not least, #1, the star of the show once again......bushing up quite nicely, secondary growth is just exploding compared to the slow start she had, have started LST in full gear now, she's pretty much doubled in size all around since last photo update, may start pruning and defoliating the underside soon, gonna let her go for a few days and make a call on that once I can better gauge how she's responding to the bonsai treatment. Gave her a good drink again tonight.

Box itself is now in what I am calling final form, minus a few gizmos and doo-dads I intend to add as time and resources permit, odor is still acceptable, I can smell the girls faintly when I go into the room and a bit stronger when I open and work in the box, but nowhere else in the house, and that's WITHOUT filters. Wife says she can barely smell them even with her face right up against them. Although I did deliberately choose this strain because CKS advertises them as low odor, and the plants are still tiny and without flowers. 1st filter should be completed and installed by next week-end, 2nd one ASAP after once I find another suitable power supply.

 

[EndItAll]

well, shit.

went to check on the girls and found me some little flying critters. not sure yet if fruit flies or fungus gnats, hoping its just fruit flies attracted by my banana peel spray, but will have to run into town tomorrow (holiday today) and get some BtI, thought i had some left but all I got on hand is BtK, which is great for moths and caterpillars but useless for flies and gnats.

 

[EndItAll]

well, the good news is, I am 100% certain that I am dealing with fungus gnats and not root aphids or any other MAJOR threat. But yeah, they gotta go. Managed to get a few good shots of the little bastards real close up to help confirm identification, but just by eye I was fairly sure, 3 clear segments to them, wings just a bit shorter than body, no "tailpipe", long thin antennae. See below.

Also found no larva in my top layer of soil which is why I was worried it might be aphids, but close inspection of my drain holes on the bucket found the final confirmation. Couldn't get focused shots, but I found me some small black-headed maggot-like larva having a party in my drain holes, so species and source are confirmed and treatment is relatively cheap, easy, organic and should be readily available at my local big-boxes even out of growing season, so as long as I can get treatment started tomorrow I should have no worries, at all of my plant's sizes there's no way much if any of the root systems are that far down yet, so it's unlikely I'll have any root damage. Will have to treat my wife's veggie and herb box as she reports flying critters there too in last couple days, haven't inspected her area but will tomorrow just to reconfirm she doesn't have different bugs.

Moral of this story, the extra 5 minutes of attention to detail can solve a minor problem before it becomes a crop-killing catastrophe, and research is your friend.

Quick photo update on #1, house has been much warmer last few days due to less Hoth-like local weather, and she is EXPLODING. Will probably have to add another tie-down to her LST tomorrow, she's almost long enough to bring her top down below and start pushing out more canopy. she added about 1.5 - 2 inches in main stem length since last training.

 

[DemonicAngel]

Ty for the love, and yeah, somewhere up in that rambling wall of text i did mention the finished unit will be fungicide treated white, using flat because it's what I have on hand, left overs from a recent bathroom reno. I'm quite happy with these T8's for what they are, they've done great with my indoor winter spice and veggie project, the basil, lettuce and hot peppers are thriving in a similar open framework with really great real daylight exposure. With 1 2-tube T8 of exactly same type and bulbs they are vegging quite nicely. But with a practical test of this cab I can already tell I'm going to need at LEAST 2 more units for any decent results, it will do quite fine for initial seedling phase while i complete the build and my back-ordered lights get in, but as is it would be a waste of good seeds to try and call it done.

@bckush just had an awesome grow in his t8s. They can produce quite well. Your DIY setup is really cool. Good one

Sent from my HTC One using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[DemonicAngel]

and, your grow space is doing just fine for growing.
"we take what we have, and make what we need and what we don't have, we improvise to make what we need "

Perfectly said AngryBird.

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[DemonicAngel]

Today`s photo update focuses on the cabinet.


******DISCLAIMER******

I know what I am doing when it comes to electricity and wiring, with that said this in no way serves as a how-to, instructional, or other similar advice on how to build your own grow light. I do not advise anyone to do as I have done, and accept no responsibility if you do it wrong and cause fire, injury, or death. Seriously people, doing this wrong is at best painful and at worst lethal, don't mess with things you don't understand.

Found this 4 socket (only the middle bar) fixture @ local thrift store for $5. It's a damp area friendly bathroom vanity fixture, so bonus points.
Added a piece of 5" ducting I had left over from another project, a few pieces of scrap wood, and an extra electrical box I had in the workshop, recycled an old PC power cord I wasn't using (nice heavy gauge wire and already has a ground, which for this wiring was an absolute must) and a 5 amp fuse in the box just for extra safety, although even when I get the splitters and throw in 4 more bulbs I should only be a hair over 4 amps draw.

Finished and with bulbs in. Looks like 1 a grow light doesn't it?

Installed after testing, not final hanging method, need to get more chain when I get the splitters, but good enough for now. Notice the box and complete lack of exposed wiring. Once again I must insist, if you're going to do something silly like build one of these, do it right, spend the extra few dollars for the boxes and connection covers, and don't play the human bug-zapper game. I know from direct experience, it isn't fun.

Total out of wall wattage is now precisely 274, and with splitters I can boost that to 382 with the bulbs I have on hand. Also have a few unused random 1 socket fixtures I could easily drop in to push me over 400watts out of wall.

Bulb mix currently stands 4 x 32w 6500k 4' tubes, 1 x vertical mounted 24w 6500k 2' tube, 4 x 27w (100w equivalent) 5000k cfl, and 2 x 7w 3000k mini cfl lamps to give the girls a taste of that end of the spectrum, and since it's so cold and they all make so little heat, I got em all REAL close to the girls. I learned the Lux meter on my phone maxes out at 10000 apparently. Based on the angle of the curve before going off scale I'm ballparking it at around 15000 to 18000 lux on #1, have a total of 21030 lumens in the box on paper, 12 square feet, online calculators agree with my math. Adding in the splitters bring that up to just a bit shy of 24000 lux on-paper......And a wattage equivalent in the 900w to 1000w range.......I think I'll be good with this as a final light setup. I have enough intensity, and a good mix of light wavelengths. Think only thing left to do is change the 6500k's to 3000k's come flowering and I should be set for lights, which is good cause the wife is getting grumpy with my budget over-runs.

#1 seems to be stabilizing, color is still a bit more lime/yellow than I would like but still improving and there's definitely growth happening, extra fingers on 2nd set are really taking off, 3rd set looks about ready to throw out fingers as well, and it appears to my (shameless bragging) amazingly good and sharp 20/10 eyes that there's a teeny tiny microscopic 4th set formed deep inside the 3rd, I'm quite sure thes are fingers of 3rd, the alignment is wrong. Hope I get a bit of a growth spurt out of her, if I'm to top her at 14 days she's got some growth to do, hope the cold isn't stunting her. A bit over 96 hrs to go and she will be 14 full days above surface and I wouldn't be comfortable topping her at her size if she maintains same growth rate she's shown so far. Not that I intend to cut there, just stating for info, I currently only have a hair over 2mm between 1st and 2nd nodes, and less than 1mm between 2nd and 3rd.

#2 replacement seed shed its shell and seems to be doing its thing, coty's hadn't unfolded last I checked but not gonna worry about that until tomorrow, she knows what she's doing. Have her on the warming mat at the end of the tubes off to one side so she isn't getting the full focused light bath #1 is.

Awesome idea and smart. Saving money makes things all the sweeter...

Sent from my HTC One using 420 Magazine Mobile App

 

[EndItAll]

ok, so I are confuzzled.

my #1 has started showing me both 4 and 6 fingered fan leaves, and in all cases, the extra leaves appear to be normal shaped but much smaller than all the other leaves on the fan. A brief google search really didn't find much info on the subject of even numbers of fingers, anyone experienced this and want to chime in?