Patient's Grows

[Pat Puffer]

@Grand Daddy Black

1 Tbsp per 1 gallon of water once a month.

Using it all depends on your grow. Each outdoor plant got it's own gallon. Indoors, perhaps a whole gallon may be too much.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Maybe also stick to the thread of watering potted plants? I really am unclear if keeping the soil evenly moist is better for living soil? 013 pointed out microbes can survive a drought.

What's best for the soil? What's best for the plant? I will read a few threads and see...probably opting for plant. I wonder if there are no roots yet, should the soil receive molasses? Should roots not matter since it's the critters in soil we want to feed?

 

[Stunger]

Hey PP, some beautiful looking plants you're growing. I love the sharing of your thoughts that you're doing, you never know what someone says that triggers an inquiry into some idea or approach that would have otherwise been missed. That's the cool and great thing about the 420 community here is that it feels very supportive and sharing, something that is often missing in other online forum sites. Great growing and thanks for journaling it!

 

[Plant Dad]

Maybe also stick to the thread of watering potted plants? I really am unclear if keeping the soil evenly moist is better for living soil? 013 pointed out microbes can survive a drought.

What's best for the soil? What's best for the plant? I will read a few threads and see...probably opting for plant. I wonder if there are no roots yet, should the soil receive molasses? Should roots not matter since it's the critters in soil we want to feed?

I would like to know too... I have seedlings I watered just around them then watered a few more time letting water drain so root will chase the water down in there big pots. I also under stand that soil isn't really activated until it gest some water.. What do I know tho.. just running on commonsense trying not to kill them.

 

[Stunger]

I really am unclear if keeping the soil evenly moist is better for living soil? 013 pointed out microbes can survive a drought.

I have pondered over this a lot too and I have come to think that it is not so straightforward as simply waiting for the top couple of inches to be bone dry. Although that seems correct and it works great in 'normal' circumstances.

My plants are growing in plastic containers that have mostly been heavily drilled with holes in walls and bottom too (as home made 'air pots'!), and also they sit on stone tiles that give off radiant heat that gets into into the high 30's Celsius (high 90's in Fahrenheit) on a summer days, and the wind is blowing on them too. So with that in mind I changed from waiting for the top layer to dry out, because I felt with all the drilled out holes in my pots, that I was concerned at my living organic soil becoming far more dried out than normal undrilled pots would be, so therefore I felt I was following the wrong advice for my circumstances. In the summer heat I find I have to water them fully, mostly twice a day which I do so as soon as I notice them wilt and collapse, which I find with the exceptional heat coming off the balcony tiles can be quite dramatic and sudden.

In later flowering I have experimented with draught stressing for greater potency but that's off on a tangent from the watering topic. But generally for me, I am favouring an approach of keeping the soil moist because I know my case my pots dry out very quickly so there is still a changing moisture cycle constantly going on, it is just more rapid. Last year I put a mulch layer of pea straw which causing the top layer to retain moisture really nicely and the plant which seemed to previously have next to no roots in the top layer (presumably due to the harsh drying cycle that I was using), but after having this damp layer of mulch the plant grew hundreds of roots all through it, so I couldn't help thinking that was a good thing, there was even worms living in my pots.

So there there are a range of approaches, I think just depends on what the overall environment is that the plants are being given and for how well they can adapt and use it. But I'm always open to changing in order to refine/optimise my grow, it is very rewarding to try a change and have an improvement! But there is a concern every time a change it done that it will instead screw it up. But hopefully not haha.

 

[Plant Dad]

I have pondered over this a lot too and I have come to think that it is not so straightforward as simply waiting for the top couple of inches to be bone dry. Although that seems correct and it works great in 'normal' circumstances.

My plants are growing in plastic containers that have mostly been heavily drilled with holes in walls and bottom too (as home made 'air pots'!), and also they sit on stone tiles that give off radiant heat that gets into into the high 30's Celsius (high 90's in Fahrenheit) on a summer days, and the wind is blowing on them too. So with that in mind I changed from waiting for the top layer to dry out, because I felt with all the drilled out holes in my pots, that I was concerned at my living organic soil becoming far more dried out than normal undrilled pots would be, so therefore I felt I was following the wrong advice for my circumstances. In the summer heat I find I have to water them fully, mostly twice a day which I do so as soon as I notice them wilt and collapse, which I find with the exceptional heat coming off the balcony tiles can be quite dramatic and sudden.

In later flowering I have experimented with draught stressing for greater potency but that's off on a tangent from the watering topic. But generally for me, I am favouring an approach of keeping the soil moist because I know my case my pots dry out very quickly so there is still a changing moisture cycle constantly going on, it is just more rapid. Last year I put a mulch layer of pea straw which causing the top layer to retain moisture really nicely and the plant which seemed to previously have next to no roots in the top layer (presumably due to the harsh drying cycle that I was using), but after having this damp layer of mulch the plant grew hundreds of roots all through it, so I couldn't help thinking that was a good thing, there was even worms living in my pots.

So there there are a range of approaches, I think just depends on what the overall environment is that the plants are being given and for how well they can adapt and use it. But I'm always open to changing in order to refine/optimise my grow, it is very rewarding to try a change and have an improvement! But there is a concern every time a change it done that it will instead screw it up. But hopefully not haha.

I think the thought is that by not allowing to dry out leaving the area in the middle always is soaked will rot those roots in the middle.

 

[Stunger]

I think the thought is that by not allowing to dry out leaving the area in the middle always is soaked will rot those roots in the middle.

That is indeed a concern, as is probably so many applications of so many things, is it too much or too little or too often etc. At the end of day, it needs to be tested out, and that is where one person's grow environment may not support it while another's grow does, that's the conundrum facing us when it comes to choosing what amongst all the very good advice will best work for our own individual circumstances. I am certainly not fixed on this, altho weighing up I feel my plants do grow better when soil is more frequently watered. I tell myself that my drilled out pots on hot tiles in the wind would surely dry out more than the soil of plants in ground. I tend to think if the plants are appropriately well nourished and their needs are being met that perhaps their vigor overcomes a 'wet soil centre' where more stressed/deficient plants cause the rot worry to be true perhaps... But I'm waffling, mine seem fine with generously watering once or twice a day in the heat, and after the last harvest I found no signs of root rot.

 

[Plant Dad]

That is indeed a concern, as is probably so many applications of so many things, is it too much or too little or too often etc. At the end of day, it needs to be tested out, and that is where one person's grow environment may not support it while another's grow does, that's the conundrum facing us when it comes to choosing what amongst all the very good advice will best work for our own individual circumstances. I am certainly not fixed on this, altho weighing up I feel my plants do grow better when soil is more frequently watered. I tell myself that my drilled out pots on hot tiles in the wind would surely dry out more than the soil of plants in ground. I tend to think if the plants are appropriately well nourished and their needs are being met that perhaps their vigor overcomes a 'wet soil centre' where more stressed/deficient plants cause the rot worry to be true perhaps... But I'm waffling, mine seem fine with generously watering once or twice a day in the heat, and after the last harvest I found no signs of root rot.

I felt guilt letting my girls dry up while it was in full flower. It just didn't seem right! I did it anyway. I just followed everything I read. Commonsense did tell me not to. I felt like I was denying them...

 

[Stunger]

I felt guilt letting my girls dry up while it was in full flower. It just didn't seem right! I did it anyway. I just followed everything I read. Commonsense did tell me not to. I felt like I was denying them...

I know what you mean, but you can really only follow your intuition as to what is best.

However, I am very interested in the view that by giving one's flowering plants drought stress for a period at the end of the grow can be good for potency, with that they will look not so happy but the theory is they may produce more potency as they produce more oil/resin to counter the drought stress.

 

[013]

I don’t say that definitively as one in the position to know or prove by science about microbes surviving totally dry soil but just like real growers recharge - it’s a packet of dry powder. Add water and get the tiny herd working on processing nutes in soil... so yeah!

Makes one puff and ponder tho hmm.... kinda like old farmer said the greatest invention ever was a thermos cuz it keeps cold stuff cold and hot stuff hot! What do I know? I’m just a backwoods gardener trying to learn sumthang.

I don’t see a problem doing wet dry cycle in veg and keeping her moist in flower, and if it came to an issue of recharging the microbes you could take a scoop of soil from your cooked soil bins that still have moisture in them and put the scoop of soil in panty hose or paint strainer bag soak in water and then repopulate the herd with a water session if you thought the conditions were too dry for the microbes to live

Nunyabiz does a great job and has (I think) 25 gallons of living soil per container and he’s got a whole herd of rove beetles in there, he waters every single day veg or flower was my understanding

Most of you have seen this perhaps but just in case heres video of those rove beetles in Nunyas living organic soil see post #22 Nunyabiz’ rove beetles

 

[Pat Puffer]

@013 The AC/DC is presently setting in that exact soil. So the herd is there. Its been 3 months since they got their molasses meal. I am fixing that tonight.

I got a tote i am going to set the pot in and give it all a good soak. I understand that it's not privvy to the whole "watering a potted plant" which is a brillaint thread. I am however trying to keep my herd alive and fed.

I think overwatering ia a big issue. I was reading at Build-a-soil (Nunyabiz gets amendments there) website and they were talking about what @Stunger was touching on. All of our envrironments are different. What works for 1 won't work for another given their humidity levels and size of containers and size of plant.

Stunger is on point about keeping our feelers on regarding our soil. While reading at the Build-a-soil website they used a scale to describe the soil's moisture. 1 is bone dry and 10 is a mud slurry. They recommended running living soil between 3-7 on that "scale".

This was only 1 thread and I am not thinking it's the gospel.

 

[Plant Dad]

@013 The AC/DC is presently setting in that exact soil. So the herd is there. Its been 3 months since they got their molasses meal. I am fixing that tonight.

I got a tote i am going to set the pot in and give it all a good soak. I understand that it's not privvy to the whole "watering a potted plant" which is a brillaint thread. I am however trying to keep my herd alive and fed.

I think overwatering ia a big issue. I was reading at Build-a-soil (Nunyabiz gets amendments there) website and they were talking about what @Stunger was touching on. All of our envrironments are different. What works for 1 won't work for another given their humidity levels and size of containers and size of plant.

Stunger is on point about keeping our feelers on regarding our soil. While reading at the Build-a-soil website they used a scale to describe the soil's moisture. 1 is bone dry and 10 is a mud slurry. They recommended running living soil between 3-7 on that "scale".

This was only 1 thread and I am not thinking it's the gospel.

I like that.... Sounds reasonable. I just haven't been growing long enough to know. I'm sure after a couple more grows I will be able to form my own opinion. May be I should try that on this experimental grow I'm doing now. I'm gonna have to buy a scale but it something I'd like to try. I do know I got a few gnats and I started drying the medium out completely and no more gnats... I'm high... I think I will just think now... ... Mind Blown

 

[Pat Puffer]

Love the thinking...this herb can get our mind going!

 

[Stunger]

My mind certainly misses it when it's not there!

 

[Pat Puffer]

I am reading more about living soil and it operates better at continually moist; not soaked.

I think I hit what I am after. Creating little ecosystems in our pots by making a living soil. Like Nunyabiz runs. Rove beetles, worms, rolly pollies.

Pretty bohemian stuff. Stating Aloe, Liquid Kelp, Fish Amino Acid, Lactobacillus, and fermented fruit juice is all that's needed to run a grow. Sounds pretty darn near what @NuttyProfessor is running, sans the insects.

Stating, that after harvest, just drop and harvest the plant and top dress a touch of magic dust (simple all purpose probably) and plant right next to the last stump. Poof!

The old root ball becomes food for the insects and worms that turn that in to a plant available form of food.

It also stated that municipal water will slowly kill the microbes in the soil with the chlorine and chloramines. A sedimentary or charcoal filter is all that is recommended to rid the water of these chemicals. Stating, stripping water of it's minerals in R.O. systems brings yellowed plants.

I am not there yet but I already have harvested my Lactobacillus (lactic acid bacteria serum) a.k.a. LABS.

I also have been doing a touch of reading on insoluable phosphates in our soil(s). This LABS is a bacteria that can break down this insoluable P in the soil. This living soil approach is utilizing this culture for growing and reaping the benefits.

What kind of benefits? Meh...I ain't got Jack to say or show. I know I am going over to Nunya's and do some snooping. See about those "Rove beetles"...

 

[Pat Puffer]

Living soil requires a fabric container ~25 gal. Roughly a 2x2 pot... That is 3x's a 7 gal...

I am going to need outriggers to move that! Haha haha. Maybe a pulley system of sorts? ROFL!

It's got my head swimming. They mention using a bed of sorts as opposed to pots. There is no reason to move them once set up.

"It's the Circle of Life, Simba"
-Mufasa

 

[NuttyProfessor]

this is one of the reasons im doing the living coco , i can keep the coco damp, my water is filled constantly with oxygen , i have added mulch to the top of them today , if the peat moss becomes hydrophobic every thing is going to run straight out , microbes an all , this is a first for me but im guessing with the higher coco base the better chance of keeping damp not soaked and oxygen in the root zone

 

[Pat Puffer]

This is one of my issues with my peat base. If its dries out i gets water repellant, almost. This soil/peat is on its 4th year of organic use and is a great soil; way better than I could buy.

Weekly update:

The AC/DC is showing odd coloring on some leaves. Nothing detrimental.

Looks like a touch of Magnesium deficiency. The yellowing is starting between the veins. I may add some to the AC/DC next time i water. The new growth on her looks good.

After 1 week, the growth is looking promising for low temps and RH.

She also had to shake off the transplant shock. Leaves are up, even after the molasses drench yesterday.

Mulch was added as well, to keep moisture longer and protect any microbial life at the surface. I am going for the little amounts of daily watering and see if the plant responds nicely. I am not so much concerned of it as I am about ensuring the soil has what it needs. The plant's success will be a by product of tending the soil.

All the clones in solo cups started showing this Mag def. This AC/DC was one of those. I watered all the clones and Bonsai's with Epsom Salt and the greened back up. However the damage was done. New growth looks good on all.

Here is the Harle-Tsu. Still light green but her leaves tell me that we are headed in the right direction.

Next I am going to research how to add those LABS to the soil and as I mentioned, I am going to start doing little waterings daily to keep the outside ring moist and not drenched.

 

[Plant Dad]

This is one of my issues with my peat base. If its dries out i gets water repellant, almost. This soil/peat is on its 4th year of organic use and is a great soil; way better than I could buy.

Weekly update:

The AC/DC is showing odd coloring on some leaves. Nothing detrimental.

Looks like a touch of Magnesium deficiency. The yellowing is starting between the veins. I may add some to the AC/DC next time i water. The new growth on her looks good.

After 1 week, the growth is looking promising for low temps and RH.

She also had to shake off the transplant shock. Leaves are up, even after the molasses drench yesterday.

Mulch was added as well, to keep moisture longer and protect any microbial life at the surface. I am going for the little amounts of daily watering and see if the plant responds nicely. I am not so much concerned of it as I am about ensuring the soil has what it needs. The plant's success will be a by product of tending the soil.

All the clones in solo cups started showing this Mag def. This AC/DC was one of those. I watered all the clones and Bonsai's with Epsom Salt and the greened back up. However the damage was done. New growth looks good on all.

Here is the Harle-Tsu. Still light green but her leaves tell me that we are headed in the right direction.

Next I am going to research how to add those LABS to the soil and as I mentioned, I am going to start doing little waterings daily to keep the outside ring moist and not drenched.

Shouldn't the medium have enough organic nutes ? Seems so early to be have issues with Deficiencies. I'm learning.

 

[Pat Puffer]

This is not a seedling.

Unfortunately this is a clone that sat in a solo cup for almost 2 months (i think). The soil is great and should be chalk full of nutrients. 2 months at 58ish temps. They crept along but eventually used up the stuff (mag).

This is the common issue i get and probably because i never put Epsom salts in my soil...hmmm... Langbeinite is there for Mag. This is probably due to being in the solo cup too long. I still got clones in solos but no where to go so they will be tossed. They show severe mag def and epsom salt fixed the new growth.

Note...i also shoved back under lights after a Neem. She was dry but shiny/oily still. Perhaps that caused it.

Given the group of clones she came from are showing same symptoms of mag def, it is a common issue i battle in my Bonsai's...I just supplement with Epsom.

Back when the Bonsai's were in full swing, i had a routine. Weekly watering...(water, feed, water+Epsom, feed. Repeat) This application rate of Epsom and a great all purpose kept my Bonsais looking lush and chugging out clones when I wanted.

Sadly my bonsais were decimated in the great caterpillar incident here. (Chuckles) It was pure stupidity. I dried outdoor herb, indoors and released a barrage of pillars that found my bonsai section. Hahaha...yeah. So, my cycle was broke and my present bonsai mothers are recovering from some mild neglect. It however is back up chugging along.