Patient's Grows

[Plant Dad]

This is not a seedling.

Unfortunately this is a clone that sat in a solo cup for almost 2 months (i think). The soil is great and should be chalk full of nutrients. 2 months at 58ish temps. They crept along but eventually used up the stuff (mag).

This is the common issue i get and probably because i never put Epsom salts in my soil...hmmm... Langbeinite is there for Mag. This is probably due to being in the solo cup too long. I still got clones in solos but no where to go so they will be tossed. They show severe mag def and epsom salt fixed the new growth.

Note...i also shoved back under lights after a Neem. She was dry but shiny/oily still. Perhaps that caused it.

Given the group of clones she came from are showing same symptoms of mag def, it is a common issue i battle in my Bonsai's...I just supplement with Epsom.

Back when the Bonsai's were in full swing, i had a routine. Weekly watering...(water, feed, water+Epsom, feed. Repeat) This application rate of Epsom and a great all purpose kept my Bonsais looking lush and chugging out clones when I wanted.

Sadly my bonsais were decimated in the great caterpillar incident here. (Chuckles) It was pure stupidity. I dried outdoor herb, indoors and released a barrage of pillars that found my bonsai section. Hahaha...yeah. So, my cycle was broke and my present bonsai mothers are recovering from some mild neglect. It however is back up chugging along.

So I've been reading in a lot of posts people use epsom salt. This is a form of Calmag? It contradicts What I've read about people trying to flush out salts... lol See how confused I am. You got me yesterday with the whole moist medium and weight pots... It just sounds right.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate. Its different from table salt.

Magnesium makes up a large chunk of a chlorophyll molecule...maybe the biggest.

 

[Pat Puffer]

While searching the web for info on how to apply LABS, I ran across this on the RQS site.

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WHAT SHOULD I AVOID WHEN USING LACTIC ACID BACTERIA?
When trying to promote a healthy micro-herd, avoid applying salt-based chemical fertilisers to your soil. They will kill most of your beneficial microbes while allowing some of the harmful ones to survive.

Avoid disturbing the soil as much as possible. The largest amount of LAB will be just beneath the surface, and exposing them to UV light can kill them. That's also why you should only apply lactic acid bacteria at night or right before you turn your lights off.

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So see i need to time my LABS application? Doesn't mulch take care of that UV factor? Maybe the absence of UV chips on Quantum Boards is a good thing?

 

[Pat Puffer]

A note about the Epsom Salt and Magnesium in general. I was reading a general garden site call easy grow from the UK and they eloquently state the role, purpose, and effect of Magnesium for plants.

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Magnesium is the Key Ion in Chlorophyll
The chlorophyll molecule includes a heme group in its central structure, with a magnesium ion electrically bound in its center. Ironically, red blood cells also contain a heme group (hemoglobin), but the central element is iron instead of magnesium. It’s actually the iron in hemoglobin that makes blood red, while magnesium makes chlorophyll green! Magnesium is so important to photosynthesis that if there is a magnesium deficiency, plants will remove magnesium ions from the chlorophyll in the lower leaves, and translocate it to the upper leaves where the plant needs it the most. That’s why magnesium deficiency shows up as interveinal chlorosis in the lower leaves first. The veins stay green, but the leaf tissues turn yellow from the lack of magnesium.

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Pretty sweet agro science.

 

[Plant Dad]

A note about the Epsom Salt and Magnesium in general. I was reading a general garden site call easy grow from the UK and they eloquently state the role, purpose, and effect of Magnesium for plants.

---

Magnesium is the Key Ion in Chlorophyll
The chlorophyll molecule includes a heme group in its central structure, with a magnesium ion electrically bound in its center. Ironically, red blood cells also contain a heme group (hemoglobin), but the central element is iron instead of magnesium. It’s actually the iron in hemoglobin that makes blood red, while magnesium makes chlorophyll green! Magnesium is so important to photosynthesis that if there is a magnesium deficiency, plants will remove magnesium ions from the chlorophyll in the lower leaves, and translocate it to the upper leaves where the plant needs it the most. That’s why magnesium deficiency shows up as interveinal chlorosis in the lower leaves first. The veins stay green, but the leaf tissues turn yellow from the lack of magnesium.

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Pretty sweet agro science.

Sweet piece of information... Thank you PP

 

[Stunger]

Living soil requires a fabric container ~25 gal. Roughly a 2x2 pot... That is 3x's a 7 gal...

My living soil is spread between plastic 7gal and 13gal containers. I have gone a year and found there are still worms living in the soil, therefore to me it is still living, even after the grow was finished and it was getting quite dried out there were still a few worms surviving. My larger 13gal containers are heavily drilled out with many holes and at least 50+ 1 inch holes. I lined my pots with landscape fabric which is very thin, you can see thru it, but it breathes and keeps the soil from falling out the holes.
But similar to you, I am finding that once/twice daily watering at the end of veg and by the time they come into flower seem to work well for them, so far they are looking nice, healthy and happy and have only been getting worm wee with their watering. And I also think the mulch is a positive as well.

 

[013]

ran across this yesterday it’s written pertaining to lawns not container plants but makes interesting points, there are a few related topics at the bottom of the page too, Soil sterilization tell me what you think... and here is an internal link write up Kill microbes

 

[Pat Puffer]

I love the discussion and the searching I have to do.

Initially, the thought of a sterile soil seems unachievable. It's dirt. It will always be dirty.

Does synthetic nutes kill microbes? Soil can always repair itself if damaged.

Can plants tell a difference between synthetic nitrogen or not? Can scientists? Dunno...

Does synthetic nutes kill microbes? Not all, aye. Something comes about as it is favored. When my compost teas would froth up I would add vegetable oil. Those critters would break it down and it would froth up again.

My short reading at NCBI had not expressed effects on bacteria and microbes, but they mentioned a nematode population being affected. I guess there is a scale called the NICM scale. Nematode Index for Compost Maturity. Bleh...Nematode numbers are counted as an overall indicator of a soils health.

It's a lengthy read and I have not gotten to the results of the study. Skimming through it seems the impact may be negligible. Supporting this whole an ion is an ion idea.

I also pulled up another study by...uhh...sf-ucdavis...excerpt stated, "at high concentrations can inhibit or even kill fungi and bacteria".

Okay...lets say that an ion is an ion and a scientist can't tell the difference between the molecules, why can't a coco bed...ran with hydro nutes support a 2nd run? Or can it? I don't know... Hahaha.

A living soil (what I don't have...) just gets some organic dusts and bugs. That pot of junk can keep producing a plant to harvest.

A coco pot needs to be tossed out every run or does it have to be washed? Why...if an ion is an ion?

I get what you are saying. Fundamentally and molecularly at the atom level, there are similarities. I am not saying flora nova won't make a plant produce a good cola or 2.

What is nitrate build up and why does it happen? Why does it not happen in organics?

To answer your question, I don't know what to think. I need to read more. thank you.

 

[Pat Puffer]

this is one of the reasons im doing the living coco , i can keep the coco damp, my water is filled constantly with oxygen , i have added mulch to the top of them today , if the peat moss becomes hydrophobic every thing is going to run straight out , microbes an all , this is a first for me but im guessing with the higher coco base the better chance of keeping damp not soaked and oxygen in the root zone

The "constant watering" just sunk in. I got it.

I am seeing even peat getting too damp. Her leaves started pointing down rather than up so i backed off the moisture.

Tonight is another Neem treatment but I am opting to wait for lights out. Special attention paid to under leaves.

I have Sierra Natural Science mite treatment. I haven't thanked any sponsor yet. I am waiting for it all to show up.

I brought outside soil in and have outdoor problems.l, indoors. That is what the weekly Neem is for. I just need to pick a week to sub the SNS treatment.

Technically i guess it is living soil...it's got critters ROFL! (Wrong bugs to have)

 

[NuttyProfessor]

you have the true living , then living , even a living super soil , if you add organic matter , its living , just try top the microbes up now and then , true living would be more the very large pot out doors id think , maybe i am semi living , if its working so far there must be some microbes alive in my pots
I add this blended manure ,and new compost i highly recommend getting this blended stuff (the farm manure ) with the bedding
just water in , more in flower than veg im thinking

 

[Pat Puffer]

That's what I am needing. An indoor fert program. I am going to need to rethink some things. Am I amending anymore? Am I top dressing some things? I need to just start some new soil in pots...i am probably going to leave the majority of the super soil out doors for veggies.

 

[Pat Puffer]

Even though my instincts told me to moisten the medium, the plant told me she was very well hydrated.

After a molasses soil drench followed by a Neem bath 2 days later, she dropped her leaves to point to the soil. I backed off my urge to moisten and she responded positively. Of course she did, cuz I'm stupid. stick to less ia more. Anyways...here she is doing better.

She has plans all her own. Upon closer inspection, I noticed she skipped a couple mid branches and decided to focus on 2 (maybe 3?) tops.

I noticed this when I went to clean up her lower half.

The slight signs of Mag def seem to be going away and new growth and over all color looks a little dark, but better.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

looks nice and green again
this is my living coco today , i am going to feed the fermented bugs today at some stage as they broke down nice and fast after the blitzing, the one to the right is the oldest so im going by her

 

[NuttyProfessor]

Todays experiment
I am going to use tap water on one, i will use yucca and squeeze fresh lemon for vit c to help get out the the bad stuff , i think with the yucca making the water thinner it will release the nasty stuff quicker in theory lol

sorry about the blur

 

[NuttyProfessor]

shit sorry i thought i was on my journal ooopppsss !

 

[Pat Puffer]

Hahahahahahahaha...Friggin hilarious. Leave them, I love it!

 

[NuttyProfessor]

im just putting up a tea in the next 20 mins , call over for a cup of tea and a spliff lol

 

[Pat Puffer]

Compost tea, aye? Ya know, when I started brewing my teas, I fell in love with the smell of the finished product. So earthy and mushroomy.

While smelling the brew 1 day, a burst bubble from the pump ejected some compost tea to my eye. No bueno.

It's organic, yes. I ended up with relentless styes in my 1 eye for a month or 2. Laugh or cringe, live, read and learn. Keep that stuff out of your eyes.

 

[NuttyProfessor]

i covered the place in that fermented shit the other day , was on my journal , every where it was took an hour to clean , shook it with no lid on the jar lol

ive put the tea up now mate

 

[copperrein]

Needy noob is stalking your crop, stealing your knowledges...

Could one of you fine people point me towards some material to read regarding compost teas plz?