Vyserage's First Indoor Soil Grow - 2017

[vyserage]

8/21/17 Day 8: Growth continues, the 1 of 2 germinating seeds as described on day 17, the one that failed actually succeeded after i left it in a bowl of water where the water was half way up to the seed so it would get both air and water. This seem's to have helped the seed finally get a taproot long enough to place into paper towel for a day or 2. After the day or 2 it was ready to be planted. Today i had to remove it from the cup of soil due to the root was growing upwards. Redug a half inch hole and placed it back in correctly. Not sure if it will make it but we'll see!
Plant growth continues, everything looking good. 1 plant was falling over so i used some gardening string to help keep it upright.

8/22/17 Day 9: Growth continues, so far so good. Still unsure about the last plant added, hasnt sprouted up yet aside from the seed has reached the top of soil and appears to be splitting open more and more.

8/23/17 Day 10: Growth continues, added fly traps (all of a sudden all the fly's are MIA).

8/24/17 Day 11: Watered all plants. Everything still looking good.

Noticed the roots on 1 or 2 of the plants have reached the bottom of the cup. Unsure of this meaning i should transplant it to the 1 gallon or wait a few more day's?

As for the water runoff ppm's:
Plant 1PM= 1400's
Plant 2PM= 1700's
Plant 3PM= 1040's
Plant 4PM= 700
Plant 5PM= 1350's

I noticed plant #2's ppm is rather high still. I'm wondering if this could be contributed to why the plant is still so small and struggling to put out larger leaf's (plant #2 is the one with the green gardening string). This is also the plant that was growing inside of its seed for the longest time before i decided enough and peeled off its top seed. The leaf's were im sure begging for sunlight under that seed. So now im wondering was it the fault of the seed or the fault of the high ppm from rich soil from the get go (i believe this was the one that measured out over 2000 ppm on very first watering as described in my very first post on thread). It could very well be both things hindered it.

Still no signs of light damage from 24' hanging heighth.

Photot's:

 

[knighthawktfc]

Just an opinion I think miss 1700ppm is just slow starter due to the opening issue and probably less to due with the hot soil, since all the rest are making due. As for the root reaching the bottom, yeah that would be a sign it's time to start thinking about transplanting in couple days, #2\#3 though you might want to wait till little bigger healthier.

 

[vyserage]

8/25/17: Growth continues, had to fix #2 yet again, plant fell in opposite direction where the string was holding it up. Fell against the cup. Seems plant #2 just didnt get a deep enough start so the roots werent far down enough to hold it in place very well?

8/26/17: Today i transplanted plant #3 into a 1 gal. grow bag. It was easy enough kinda squishing the cup as i turned it in order to loosen the soil as a whole and wiggle it out. As i was placing it into the new hole in its new home, it just kinda burst in the middle and all the soil fell out in the middle leaving me with bending roots (not bent dmg but just them sort bending outwards as the soil fell (due to my right hand being on the bottom of the bottom piece of soil lifting upwards since it lost the resistance as the middle soil ejected lol) and i quickly placed it and filled it in with some of the new soil all around.

I think it will be ok, atleast i hope. I kinda patted it down all around but not tightly.
I then watered it completely until a decent amount drained out.
PPM measured in the 2300's to 2400's. I hope this is OK or should i keep watering it a few times over to flush out some of that high ppm and get it lowered?
As i was watering, too much water washed the top soil from the plant and it started falling over completely so i held it up and placed soil all around its stem atleast half an inch and patted it in decently. This should stop it from falling over and help keep it up straight.

I am going to hold off on transplanting the others for now, i want to see how this one act's and decide after a day or so.

The result:

EDIT:
The clone looks to have new green leafs! They're small but thats a very good sign right?
Picture:

 

[knighthawktfc]

Quite the adventure. Yes that early sign of new growth seems a good sign on your clone.

 

[vyserage]

Awesome! Thanks

That high ppm from the transplant is ok? 2300's. When does feeding it come into play? I would imagine its when the ppm measureing is int he say 0500's range but wouldnt that mean most of the nutes are gone where the current roots are until it spreads out into the new bigger size?

 

[knighthawktfc]

Awesome! Thanks

That high ppm from the transplant is ok? 2300's. When does feeding it come into play? I would imagine its when the ppm measureing is int he say 0500's range but wouldnt that mean most of the nutes are gone where the current roots are until it spreads out into the new bigger size?

Keep in mind I'm new at this but, depends... but general rule I see is around 3-4 weeks is when you start with real feeding, it will depend on the soil and of course your plant. There is big thread in the faq area about feeding and the general guidance for ppms vs stage of growth...but it's just a guide. 500 isn't exactly "low" for early veg, it also depends what that 500ppm actually is...you know what I mean, like did the plant eat all the nitro and leave most the p and k etc..etc.. it's not always a 100% pure ppm # thing.

That said none of your plants look like they need anything more than 2-400'ish in the short term so I wouldn't worry about it till day 21'ish...or till you see exit water < 400, other than maybe adding some cal-mag after week2, particularly if using RO\distilled water, otherwise you can probably wait a little longer on adding the cal-mag.

Just as an example... My candy cane auto is about a week-10days from being done, her highest feeding ever was ~1200 this past week... now maybe I under-fed her a little over time but not by much for auto ..or so I read. My WW auto is ~60 days old and I just recently feed her 1500 (she's a much bigger bitch), and probably will not go much higher than that. Back on like day 20-30 she was getting like ~350 I think. My FFOF soil started out around ~900 on day 0, I didn't really feed them anything (1/8th dose of calmag at day 15) till day 20. Now keep in mind mine were autos and I read you feed them less then photos on average.

Also remember your transplanted lady just got access to 90% fresh nute supply in the new soil... same for all your others when you transplant them, so really you should be good I would think till at least week 3 is over.

/grains of salt with my comments though.

 

[vyserage]

Awesome, just what i wanted to hear/needed to hear really.

Im thinking a good transplant schedule to keep is this:

12-14 days in starter cups
by this point it should have more fresh rich soil from transplant. Since the ppm was so high for the new soil, im assuming i shouldnt need the cal/mag just yet. Not until its measured much lower.
2 weeks in 1 gallon
2 weeks in 3 gallon
FLOWERING BEGIN, feeding nutes begin if low ppm. (unless of course my water runoff ppm is too low, in which case i would start feeding earlier.

If my plants are still kinda small, i will of course leave in vegetative for an additional 2 weeks as this would round off to 2 months total veg time and likely 2 months flowering time. I imagine this is the norm for seedlings and its like 3 months for clones since they have a clear head start.

 

[knighthawktfc]

Awesome, just what i wanted to hear/needed to hear really.

Im thinking a good transplant schedule to keep is this:

12-14 days in starter cups
by this point it should have more fresh rich soil from transplant. Since the ppm was so high for the new soil, im assuming i shouldnt need the cal/mag just yet. Not until its measured much lower.
2 weeks in 1 gallon
2 weeks in 3 gallon
FLOWERING BEGIN, feeding nutes begin if low ppm. (unless of course my water runoff ppm is too low, in which case i would start feeding earlier.

If my plants are still kinda small, i will of course leave in vegetative for an additional 2 weeks as this would round off to 2 months total veg time and likely 2 months flowering time. I imagine this is the norm for seedlings and its like 3 months for clones since they have a clear head start.

So on the cal-mag... it depends on the soil, generally speaking if you didn't add some or dolomite-lime to the soil (source of cal+mag) or something else, you will need supplemental cal-mag in your water or soil, only question might be when, idk all the different kinds of soil out there but most don't have enough cal\mag for weed, particularly under LED lights, which make them use it up more then under say hps. From what I understand though first 14 days the seeds have enough in them on both usually, tap water usually adds a little but again that depends if your using tap, and the particulars of your tap water.

I made a little big of mistake from not feeding mine enough cal-mag early enough, thankfully it's one of a few things that's easy to solve without much damage. Worst case you give them a little too much, and I read all other things being equal\in-range it's actually kind of hard to give them too much.

The rest of the schedule seems a fair plan, some of it will depend on how often\much they end up getting watered, but I think your targets are probably about right but wtf do I know... I've never had to transplant cannabis yet. About a week into flowering or two your probably going to want to be feeding them regardless of if the soil suggests they need it. As at that point or soon after the demands will shift from higher N vs PK, to higher PK vs N, and majority of soil is really just built for pre-flowering phase.
Fair number of people at this stage (week or two into flower) flush everything out of the soil (so for you that would be like 9 gallons of water through each) and then feed their bloom mix, basically helps reset what's in the soil and in the process clean up most salt build up. Personally I wasn't gonna flush, but I had other problems around that time on each my plants where it made sense to do it. Some of all this will depend also on what the nutes your using tell you to do, most sets come with some feeding schedule guidance.

 

[vyserage]

hmmm, good knowledge on the cal/mag, in that case i will start using cal-mag in the RO water from week 3 and onwards. If i notice any nutrient burn ill just stop using it

Thanks for that info! As for the flush, ya i will definitely do a flush but i thought thats only 1 or 2 weeks before harvesting?

And for my last question! The cal/mag, do i use every watering or do i want a seperate gallon mixed with it for every other watering?

 

[knighthawktfc]

If i notice any nutrient burn ill just stop using it

You shouldn't from cal-mag, if anything you'll see it show up I think as super super dark green plants. (dark green is good, nearly black is not - lol)
As for dosages it'll say on the bottle, may vary a little from product to product, but one thing I found is unlike feeding nutes, you don't need to do like 1/2 the recommended dose, full or close to it works fine. I see people adding anywhere from 2ml per gallon to 8ml per gallon depending on product and plant size\strain, I went with 5ml per gallon (after I had be only using 2.5 for awhile).

Some add it only with 'water-only' parts of their schedule, some every time. Me.. I been adding it in every feeding regardless of 'feed' or 'water-only' waterings because I had earlier issues, your mileage may vary due to environment or strains, but I would definitely give them some at least every other watering. You can even foliar spray\feed it if you want, I did that but only twice when I was 'catching up' on prior deficiency.

You don't want to mix your nutes too much ahead of time and store them, a couple days is fine, but once you start pushing a week things can go bad on you, keep that in mind when pre-mixing\reusing prior mixed stuff.

i thought thats only 1 or 2 weeks before harvesting?

Like mentioned some people do it in the veg\flowing switch time as well... to clear our salts and reset nutes.
Some nute mfg even recommend it with their products (foxfarm's schedule comes to mind), but even there you don't 'have to' follow the recommendation.

 

[onewarmguy]

What kind of spray should i spray the leaf's with?[/QUOT

My first line of defence is a homemade insecticidal soap purely because I like to know what I'm using on the girls. I make mine this way:
1 tbsp liquid castille soap (available at most natural food stores) One bottle will last for several years.
1tbsp virgin olive oil (any light vegetable oil is fine though, I've heard of people also using peppermint oil and want to try that)
1 gal water (Ph'd)

stir well, put in sprayer, go get em. It's important to remember to spray both the top and bottom surfaces! let dry

 

[vyserage]

I'm going to transplant the other plants today (only the ones with good root systems visible in clear cup), afterwards im going to water them down fully with Ca/Mag from this point on with every watering. My question is this, i am going to go with FIM, i need 4 nodes atleast on the plant before i pinch the top part off correct?

 

[knighthawktfc]

I'm going to transplant the other plants today (only the ones with good root systems visible in clear cup), afterwards im going to water them down fully with Ca/Mag from this point on with every watering. My question is this, i am going to go with FIM, i need 4 nodes atleast on the plant before i pinch the top part off correct?

I believe that is correct.. 4-5 for photos.

 

[vyserage]

What are people using for their draining systems? Having just a water tray isnt really good enough for me cause i would have to lift a 3 gallon wet plant and hold it so it drained and then place it somewhere else, empty the tray or measure ppm, place plant back onto tray and repeat 5 more times lol.

There's gotta be an easier way to have a drainage table kinda thing where my plant sits on it and the water flow's into a chamber that i can easily pull out, empty, place back and done. Only thing i saw on amazon was some 4 wheel thing like that but 14 bucks a pop i would need 6 , 1 for each plant. That price adds up lol.

 

[knighthawktfc]

What are people using for their draining systems? Having just a water tray isnt really good enough for me cause i would have to lift a 3 gallon wet plant and hold it so it drained and then place it somewhere else, empty the tray or measure ppm, place plant back onto tray and repeat 5 more times lol.

There's gotta be an easier way to have a drainage table kinda thing where my plant sits on it and the water flow's into a chamber that i can easily pull out, empty, place back and done. Only thing i saw on amazon was some 4 wheel thing like that but 14 bucks a pop i would need 6 , 1 for each plant. That price adds up lol.

So I've experimented with a couple different things, one was just the tray... like you said.. not great for when you need to check samples, then I bought a 3' piece of like closet shelving and just threw some stryo blocks on the corners & in the center which kept it them about propped up about 3" off the floor with the trays beneath. Worked pretty well during waterings, and for collection I cut the 2'3rd of little plastic cups off and used those to fit under the grating.

Finally got sick of that too though and I just yank my out now into the bath room and put the grate over plastic storage thing and just water, works ok for 2 plants, but for 5 yes would be major pain.
Grate actually worked well BUT I have a 2x4 tent and it was getting in the way of having certain equipment in the tent which is why I removed it.

If you just want to sample from the tray though, you can just get any number of 1" or 1.5" stilts things to put the plants on, helps with drainage, and in getting some air under and up into the pots.
Example:
Plant Stand 10440 Down Under, Clear, 12-Inch : Plant Pot Stand

Yesterday:



grate version:


For cleaning up the trays I just used some plastic 500ml and 250ml suction bottles...
unless your flushing... it works ok, I hear most people use a wet\dry vac - something I don't have.

edit:
On the grates thing... separate like kitchen sink grates of like 12-14" would work too... it's a matter of
finding ones that work for you though, lot of them are only like 1" raised, or higher one have serious
'tilt' you may not want. Been keeping my eye on stuff like that at local stores, and online, they are out there I just haven't found "perfect" ones for me yet. Also kind of already spent way way way way too
much on this first grow of mine so I've told myself to just let it go and "just deal" for now with what I got.

Some of this is cause I insist on 'sampling' every water cause I've had issues, if i didn't have 'issues' that needed to be monitored so often it would be less of concern to me to sample every watering.

 

[vyserage]

8/27/17: Growth continues. Had to hook the garden string back up to plant #2 as it fell over yet again (i had removed it thinking it could handle standing up straight but i guess not).
8/28/17: Transplanted #1, #2 and #4 today into the 1 gallon. I wasnt going to do #2 since it was still small and the root system wasnt as complex looking as the other's when i transplanted, but i figured all the green adding up wasnt good, it couldnt hurt to get it into more space. In fact after its transfer it now stands up straight much better without any garden string.

The transplant for all 3 plants went without a single issue.

Watered all plants today. Used Cal/Mag for the watering of the transplanted and normal water for the 2 plants remaining in cups (clone and a seedling maybe a week old). mixed 1 tsp with 1 gallon of water (thats 5 ml of calmag).
PPM runoff measured for the transplanted is:
#1 1713 (miracle grow soil)
#2 1587 (miracle grow)
#4 1469 (Planet Natural)
minus 394 for cal/mag ppm water (already updated numbers above accordingly)

Pics:

 

[knighthawktfc]

8/27/17: Growth continues. Had to hook the garden string back up to plant #2 as it fell over yet again (i had removed it thinking it could handle standing up straight but i guess not).
8/28/17: Transplanted #1, #2 and #4 today into the 1 gallon. I wasnt going to do #2 since it was still small and the root system wasnt as complex looking as the other's when i transplanted, but i figured all the green adding up wasnt good, it couldnt hurt to get it into more space. In fact after its transfer it now stands up straight much better without any garden string.

The transplant for all 3 plants went without a single issue.

Watered all plants today. Used Cal/Mag for the watering of the transplanted and normal water for the 2 plants remaining in cups (clone and a seedling maybe a week old). mixed 1 tsp with 1 gallon of water (thats 5 ml of calmag).
PPM runoff measured for the transplanted is:
#1 1713 (miracle grow soil)
#2 1587 (miracle grow)
#4 1469 (Planet Natural)
minus 394 for cal/mag ppm water (already updated numbers above accordingly)

Pics:

Looking good! Yeah that 5ml\gal should be more than enough for them at this stage...good job.
Also edited my last post to add additional mostly useless commentary about grates - lol.

 

[vyserage]

I'm prety sure that pink cat has 4 nodes now, or rather its got 3 nodes i can count and the very top has a tiny node making its way. Is that what i would pinch off 80% right now or should i wait a few more day's for it to develop a little more? I dont feel like i have a very good understanding on what to pinch off just yet, do u FIM or Top ? What would u recommend?

The other plants arent quite ready for it as they only have 3 nodes

Also, i like your setup for the water tray's in tent. I want to get those green tray's you have! That white rack would work well too! I could easily just get some brick's from lowes or home depot and use those to lift the white tray upwards and slide in/out those green water catcher trays!

Where did u get the white metal thing? I found the green trays on amazon.

 

[knighthawktfc]

If pink cat = last photo... yeah I think that would the forth that your would pinch\cut 80% off of to FIM, I wouldn't do it yet though, you want piece to get bit bigger before you chop into it (i think). Again though my FIM knowledge is just from some reading and a couple videos. So FIM\Topping... similar but not the same and desiring somewhat different results, topping would be removing that growth shoot entirely ie stem, where as fimming would be taking ~80% of growth shoot part off but leaving the lower part of it. The first will redirect most efforts of the plant to the sides\side branching etc and usually produce 2 two pretty even main growth shoots\colas that will grow outward more than upward - which is why it's used to control heights to a degree. The fimming while similar can sometimes produce more center growth nodes (2-4, sometimes even more) and less side focus for the plant, generally it doesn't really stop the plant's desire to put on height... or so is my noob understanding.


There are 100 tutorials\etc out there including some on these forums... a decent basic one\overview one is this:
Topping vs FIMing Cannabis - Get Step-By-Step Instructions! | Grow Weed Easy


So I got the white metal thing at the local home depot (shelving isle), just about any big hardware store has them, and I think even walmart\kmart\etc sells them though I don't know if like the hw stores they sell them in singles and as many various sizes, probably do.

BRICKS!!! Why the fk didn't I think of that? So much easier cause they wouldn't squish a bit!!! Thank you!

The green trays came with my setup, however they are available from like everyone.
IDK if this is the exact ones I have but looks the same and it's the same mfg. Mine are HGS-S12P's guess that means 12" versions.

 

[vyserage]

I just ordered these 2 items from amazon. My plan for them is to just have the plants sitting on top of those baking tray's and just slide in/out the water tray's. If it doesnt work well, ill just go with the brick idea haha. We will see! And no problem about the bricks lol, i hope it works out well for u!