Thread: Volks Grow

  1. #316
    420 Nug of the Month Winner 2nd Place Member of the Month (Mar 10') WheeloFortune's Avatar
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    Re: Volks Grow

    sweet bulb, expensive i bet. lol.

    nice as ice. . . i cant wait to see them grow!
    specifics?
    how long do you plan to veg?
    can you tell us what your going to feed these ones?
    same feeding schedule as last run?
    how many watts is the bulb?


  2. #317
    420 Member CanbisMxmus's Avatar
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    Re: Volks Grow

    Yeah, I paid more for it (the bulb) than I should have... damn the impulsive buying, but it is a 600w hps element & a 400w mh element in a 1k housing. I paid $260, and saw it online for $144, but I would have had to wait. As far as veg goes... I'm playing it by ear, I made small clones so it'll be a few days at least. I'm using my AN Sensi Grow (during veg) and Sugar Peak all organic bloom on roughly the same feeding curve as before.

    I just put the rest of the clones in today for a grand total of 79, seems I mis-placed a cube somewhere. Not all of the clones are Ice probably 60, and none of the various clones are labled... I am terrible at organization, good thing I have a sense of humor.

    All my wicks are installed, clothes pins in place, and 600ppm nutes running for the next couple days.

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    Re: Volks Grow

    Round we go again!!! Did you ever find the missing clone?

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    Re: Volks Grow

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    Yeah, I paid more for it (the bulb) than I should have... damn the impulsive buying, but it is a 600w hps element & a 400w mh element in a 1k housing. I paid $260, and saw it online for $144, but I would have had to wait. As far as veg goes... I'm playing it by ear, I made small clones so it'll be a few days at least. I'm using my AN Sensi Grow (during veg) and Sugar Peak all organic bloom on roughly the same feeding curve as before.
    OUCH lol. You get a fixture and ballast with that or just a little bit of "personal service" from the salesperson?

    I've wondered about those bulbs.

    Out of 1000 watts I'd have wanted only about 250 to be MH, but I do like the concept.

    Knowing that a conversion bulb tends to eat some amount of wattage in the process, I wonder if the same holds true in this case?

    Does it output the same amount (and spectrum) of light that a separate 600-watt HPS & 400-watt MH would?

    Does it seem that the coverage of the two different sources mix well in your wheel? Do you expect to have one (larger) end of your wheel grow as per normal, the other end to have extremely short (maybe to the plants' detriment) internodes - but an appreciably larger amount of visible trichomes - and the middle(~) of the wheel to be... in the middle?

    Is this bulb the size of a regular HPS with the "HPS part" shortened in order to fit a shortened "MH part" into it, or is it substantially longer and each part is the same size as its stand-alone counterpart?

    Also wondering what the expected usable service length of this combo bulb is. If one portion of it burns out, I guess the owner is left with a very expensive 600-watt HPS (or 400-watt MH, as the case may be) - or would a partial failure cause the entire bulb to stop working?

    Oh, and is that a crack in your cool-tube?
    Respectfully,
    Tortured Soul

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  5. #320
    420 Member CanbisMxmus's Avatar
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    Re: Volks Grow

    TS: Wow, um, first, yes that is a crack which I have super glued and it seems to be holding fine. As far as the bulb goes, I can't answer half your questions because I don't know, I bought it in expectation that it would be beneficial in overall growth especially since there is such a short veg period. I had many of the same questions you are asking (maybe not as many) when I installed the bulb. Great thing about the light tube, I can always swap it around to face the other way if I see one side is growing dis-proportionate. In regards to longevity, I don't use bulbs more than three grows, by then they have payed for themselves 100x over. I have found that any investment I make in my horticulture is repaid x4 in return, so what may seem pricey intially is only a drop in the bucket to what the rewards are. If it turns out the bulb is worth the extra price, I'll get another after this one expires.

    I'm running a digital ballast (quantum 1kw) so energy loss should be at a minimum, I try to be as thrifty as possible. I like the fact the pictures look a little nicer with the blue light added. The spectrum is better overall than the enhanced hps I was using, as far as comperable? I guess it would depend on which bulb you're refering to!?! I know a little about a lot, as opposed to a lot about a little, which means I probably know nothing, which is still something...
    Here she is:


  6. #321
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    Re: Volks Grow

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    Great thing about the light tube, I can always swap it around to face the other way if I see one side is growing dis-proportionate.
    In your shoes, I would probably make a point to do that on a daily basis (owing to the fact that I cannot think of a way to fabricate a revolving cool-tube that would do it constantly at around 1 RPM).

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    In regards to longevity, I don't use bulbs more than three grows, by then they have payed for themselves 100x over. I have found that any investment I make in my horticulture is repaid x4 in return, so what may seem pricey intially is only a drop in the bucket to what the rewards are. If it turns out the bulb is worth the extra price, I'll get another after this one expires.
    I DO see your point here. But still, something deep inside of me has always balked at paying such a high premium when it is not deserved (say for a difficult creation or extreme creativity).

    Instead of its expected usable lifetime vs. other bulbs I should rather have asked if this type of bulb's failure rate is higher than a 1kW HPS (or a 600-watt HPS and a 400-watt MH). For I too never operated a bulb more than two or three grows before relegating it to emergency spare status or giving it away.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    I'm running a digital ballast (quantum 1kw) so energy loss should be at a minimum
    I would not think the ballast type would have any real impact on that question. This bulb is intended to operate from a HPS ballast? If so, it must have the same hardware inside it (IMHO) as a 360-watt MH "conversion bulb" that is meant to operate on a HPS ballast. And they are only 360 watts because the hardware that allows them to operate with such a ballast consumes ~40 watts. But that is only my speculation and I would only expect about the same loss (which is relatively small).

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    The spectrum is better overall than the enhanced hps I was using, as far as comperable? I guess it would depend on which bulb you're refering to!?!
    Either a 1000-watt HPS or a 600-watt HPS & a 400-watt MH.

    I would think that - assuming that the bulb was regularly turned around so as to provide as even a coverage as possible during the course of the grow - you would have a harvest that is a little more compact, a little bit lighter, and a little bit more potent than if you had used a 1000-watt HPS. And pretty much the same (only a tiny bit less) than if you were using a 600-watt HPS & a 400-watt MH.

    Again, that is only speculation on my part. I will be following your grow in order to learn what is actually the case.

    And as always, good luck and thank you for experimenting!
    Respectfully,
    Tortured Soul

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  7. #322
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    Re: Volks Grow

    the bonsai has a model that has a light mover built into the cool tube. I have been trying to think of an easy way for me to build one myself. or I wonder if they would sell me one, i think it would cancel out any uneven effects of that bulb.

  8. #323
    420 Member CanbisMxmus's Avatar
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    Re: Volks Grow

    Alrighty, you are much more knowledgeable on the subject of bulbs than myself. My primary goals in growing have been root zone optimization, and nutrient proficiency. Each part of the equation is just as important as any other, but until the introduction of the VG, my grows were only supplemented by artificial lighting. I like free light, and nothing matches the spectrum the sun puts out. I don't really want to have to flip the light daily, but I'm out there monitoring it anyway so... what the heck, just one more thing to add to the routine.

    I have done light research into spectrums and useable light, and actually put off using HID lights until somewhat recent. Prior to my HIDs I was using CFLs and LEDs (supplementally), while they did work, I was not achieving the desired density.

    I assumed the ballast being digital would compensate somewhat for the conversion seein as how they are supposed to put off more lumens per watt, I wish I had a light meter.

    All my grows are experimental, trying different nutes, lights, co2, organics vs. mineral, indo vs outdo, clones vs seeds, etc...

    Great food for thought, we shall see how it goes. Thanks for the input!

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    Re: Volks Grow

    CMX,

    When you are using this Bulb, is there any noticeable change in heat output?

  10. #325
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    Re: Volks Grow

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    Alrighty, you are much more knowledgeable on the subject of bulbs than myself.
    RotFLMFAO. Then you must not have much knowledge of that subject. J/K, of course, but in truth the fraction of
    what I know
    ------------
    total knowledge
    is such a small number that it can effectively be stated as ZERO.

    I'm just... Curious? Imbued with a thirst for knowledge? Somewhat nosy?

    As someone stated it so well, I'll just quote them here, shall I?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    I know a little about a lot, as opposed to a lot about a little
    Yeah, that's me as well. Or rather I'd say - and I'd guess that it's true for many people, "I know a lot about a little, a little about a lot, and nothing about an infinite number of other things. But I'm workin' on it (lol)."

    I tend to think (+/-) and one of the by-products of this is that I ask a lot of questions. I do this in order to learn but I have been told that occasionally it causes others to question as well.

    I feel that I've learned from reading your journal - along with those of others.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    I don't really want to have to flip the light daily, but I'm out there monitoring it anyway so...
    I do feel that it will prove to be beneficial. As to how beneficial, well, ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    I have done light research into spectrums and useable light, and actually put off using HID lights until somewhat recent. Prior to my HIDs I was using CFLs and LEDs (supplementally), while they did work, I was not achieving the desired density.
    My first indoor grows were with the old school 40-watt florescents which I placed as close together as physically possible (by eventually disassembling the fixtures and mounting the bulbs onto a board). But still I wasn't even approaching an ounce per square foot until I read about someone who was using the same kind of lights, stacking one 2'x4' grow on top of the other one, and doing something that they called "scrog." So as I read, I found myself thinking, "That's pretty unconventional. But... Hmm..."

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    I assumed the ballast being digital would compensate somewhat for the conversion
    Well, in that it would be capable of outputting its power more efficiently, sure, I can see that. But - even if it's capable of powering either a HPS or a MH, I'm guessing that it cannot manage to do both simultaneously. Therefore I'd imagine that the bulb itself is getting a nominal 1kW at whatever voltage (can't remember - have been consuming Scotch) a 1kW HPS requires and that the MH side of the bulb is getting ~400 watts at the same voltage and must somehow convert this voltage into one which will fire a 400-watt MH (and initially fire it). But I freely admit that I do not know how such a bulb is constructed. It may be that I am missing something important here, IDK.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    All my grows are experimental, trying different nutes, lights, co2, organics vs. mineral, indo vs outdo, clones vs seeds, etc...
    And that is something that I appreciate - along with the fact that you feel free to share with the rest of the world. Many people do not feel themselves able to do so, either because of their local laws, the fact that they may be active in their local... political/legal... scene, or a combination of the two.
    Respectfully,
    Tortured Soul

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    Re: Volks Grow

    Quote Originally Posted by DGMGH View Post
    CMX,

    When you are using this Bulb, is there any noticeable change in heat output?
    Haha, there's one that I forgot to ask. Hey CMx, you got one of those handy little point & shoot non-contact IR thermogizmos? They're handy for questions like that - you can just shut the fan off for a minute, "shoot" the bulb, and turn the fan back on.

    They're also handy for seeing that yes, CFLs do put out some heat (and it's off-topic but I'll once again state that I feel that an equivalent amount of them would produce more combined heat than a HPS and likely more than a MH as well) and for spot-checking the surface temperature of certain sections of one's roof/walls against other sections. I just wish I could think of a way to get one to figure out "gross BTUs."
    Last edited by TorturedSoul; 08-12-2009 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Because I haven't learned to not post while inebriated.
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  12. #327
    420 Member CanbisMxmus's Avatar
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    Re: Volks Grow

    I actually did have a thermo doo-dad for automotive use at one time, but no longer have possesion of it. I have noticed that the room is pretty warm (81f) but I supplement with co2 which is supposed to help production at higher temps. I also have two 1kw lights burning with good circulation but poor ventilation. I have certain issues that are difficult to overcome leasing the house I live in, so I deal with what I have.

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    420 Member bigmouthbass's Avatar
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    Re: Volks Grow

    i said it first ,you will break 2lbs on this one ,max numbers ,c02 and good nuts i see a smelly frosty future for you
    BIGmouthBASS

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    Re: Volks Grow

    CMX,

    I am with Bigmouthbass.

    I was thinking you should take bets on the end weight you get!!

    My guess is 3.2lbs (wet before drying)

    Anyone else want to take a punt at the end weight?

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    New Member MJ1Hal's Avatar
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    Re: Volks Grow

    Quote Originally Posted by CanbisMxmus View Post
    Mj1Hal: Sounds like you've got the plan... you could certainly veg in the volks, just pay attention to detail and think ahead to when you want to remove the plants from the machine

    I'm stoked, I got a new hortilux enhsnced spectrum super blue. The element in it looks like half hps, and half mh, it's freakin sweet. I loaded the VG up with 67 ice clones today, and installed the bulb. I have 12 more clones to go in tomorrow but I'm out of the 3" rockwool cubes. In the meantime I'm running veg nutes 800 ppm, 24hour light, and co2...

    Volksgrow 2 "Ice As Nice"....

    That sounds like a good bulb ... but I dont have the money for it right now ... thats actually why I was thinking about running the VOLKS as a veg machine and then shutting down in a Green House ... I also have been growing in a green house for a while now and I like how the final product tastes and smokes when you let it go outdoor ... its much more connoisseur quality.

    Not to say that indoor is bad because there is noting wrong with heavy effect however its nice to have a mild yet still potent tasting bud. Im going to try it with a few by shutting down outside and inside... my Chery AK clones are doing "okish" they came from a store around here that has pretty good buds but the clones came in and looked really stressed but my friend was buying them and I tried to tell him that they didnt look too happy but he was like oh naw there just in shock from being out of the Grow Room ... I was like ummm... I dont think so but if you want them its your money.

    So he got them anyway but there about 4 inches tall right now vegging under 4 foot FLOWs. I have Pre98 Bubba x Pure OG tho that is taking off like MAD .... The clones I got were origionally 3 inches or so they have Doubles in size and I have been cutting the leaves in half to stimulate the roots to grow, I made 2 of them into moms and they are in a 6 inch cubes, i planted them a week and a half ago and they are already putting roots through the bottom and doubled in size, I want to try outdoor with them too because if I put them in a 5 gal bucket I think they will really explode. I was told it was a good species for single cola however Ive been seeing that if you can start with a taller or larger plant and low stress it out that you can get a lot bigger yield, I have a friend that has been working with low stressed plants and I have been seeing some pretty nice yields ....

    A 2.5 foot tall plant that is about 4 foot around but has about 8-10 cola tops on it and a number of side branches that spread around ... all in all id say it will net around 2.5 oz dried or more.

    Im getting close to my legal limit I am a med patient in CA and we are allowed 6-10 plants depending on your medical card. So Im trying to stay in that range however I have a few people that are letting me grow for them so I am allowed more, however 80 at once seems a bit much, at current I have enough people to grow about 40-60 plants but with that said I would rather veg them to about 10 inches tall ... pull them from the blocks and shut them down in soil or promix and let them get bigger so I get a nicer yield ....

    With 4-6 pair of lungs to fill I dont think that 40 plants shut down in SOG will yield enough to satisfy the time and effort on my part... I figure if nothing else I can put most of them in 1-2 gal pots and let them stretch to about 2.5 foot tall ...

    .......

    More to come ... Ill keep you posted ... and as always

    Pass that info

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