Thank you for your input. I think if they still have some left next month during their promo period that Im going to get 10
Increasing yield with defoliation indoors: What's it mean? How to do it?
- Thread starter Bassman59
- Start date
hmmmmmmmmm i have had an idea.
i wonder if its possible to find a catapillar that would eat the fan leaves but not touch the growing tops (you get all kinds of fussy eaters)
that would rock, just add them to your grow room and they defoliate for you. more catapillars = more defoliation, then just take them all out before you flower.
I just went through a nasty invasion of moth caterpillars and naturally find no humor in this suggestion. I learned that even a 1mm moth can lay eggs that 4mm caterpillars hatch from, so I don't take chances or take any flying object for granted anymore. Plus, plucking fan leaves is therapeutic for me, being simultaneously relaxing and mentally engaging. Having a very large garden would probably make me change my mind.
I just saw a video yesterday on my quest to mystify "Decarboxylation" and it involved the consumption of raw Cannabis fan leaves - juice extracted, drinking a simple shot per day has delivered some incredible results, according to the claims of the people behind the video, which describes the differences between THCA/CBDA and THC and CBD. The bottom line is that I am going to try it out with the new seedling plants I just started, so those freshly-cut fan leaves will not go to waste. My grow journal has both details and embedded movie if you are interested.
Very good post, and very well layed out and thought out!!
A very good buddy of mine who also has about 30 years of growing under his belt also suggested defoliation. He said around day 40 you want to strip any "fans/waterleafs" after the 5th node downwards. He didn't really say why but I definitely trust his judgement since he grows some of the finest nug I've tried. He also recommend supercropping in flower as you have and lollipopping up to the canopy. Very very good post!!! I definitely can say defoliation, lollipopping and supercropping in flower do work, and will increase your yield!!!
A very good buddy of mine who also has about 30 years of growing under his belt also suggested defoliation. He said around day 40 you want to strip any "fans/waterleafs" after the 5th node downwards. He didn't really say why but I definitely trust his judgement since he grows some of the finest nug I've tried. He also recommend supercropping in flower as you have and lollipopping up to the canopy. Very very good post!!! I definitely can say defoliation, lollipopping and supercropping in flower do work, and will increase your yield!!!
im interested in this new bay11 strain, i have just been sent samples of ken estes gpd seed version, i planted one and it sprouted very quick, the seeds where bigger than any other seeds i have got, so all been well its going to be a very nice strain to grow, ill hopefully do some breeding with it and try and come up with a good cross, but for now im happy to be giving the gdp a try,
Yeah I'd be happy too. Hopefully sometime in 2013 I'll give bay11 a try, probably outdoors in one of the greenhouses.
ill have to wait for the seed version, or is that what your going on about, i know the gdp was clone only for a long time but most seed banks now stock ken estes gdp so chances are they will be stocking the bay11 at some point,
i have been wanting to try a sativa strain for a while and i went with the santa sativa, i only ordered one seed and it came in one of those vials and that was inside a small tin, nice tin for keeping my own seeds in, just what i needed after all the seeds i got from the last plant i crossed
i have been wanting to try a sativa strain for a while and i went with the santa sativa, i only ordered one seed and it came in one of those vials and that was inside a small tin, nice tin for keeping my own seeds in, just what i needed after all the seeds i got from the last plant i crossed
Yeah Im talking about from seed. The seed bank I'm looking at has three strains of Ken's GDP, Bay11 and Kens kush. I dont know much about his strains but I do know that all I hear is good stuff about him and his genetics. Im going to wait until next months promo period, thats if there not sold out. I got to learn more about squaring off a strain, I'd love to breed them and have a few hundred seeds for the future.
Smokemupm8
New Member
GIG... Youre a twit!!
LOL.. Bloody caterpillars! Its like me saying i hope i find a Fungus Gnat that can help aerate my roots by only chewing on the bad roots of my plant Funny fooker. So hows things on your side of the fence GIG?? All good i trust..
My new project is looking the part tho so far GIG.. Ive trimmed a few of its first fan leaves, exposing the first base primary branches of the plant to alot more light. They are now just about fully out from the width of the plant. So this is looking good, tho im not sure which way ill go about growing her - I am thinking some LST, but, a little different to Cindy's. Im going to try to isolate the first 6 base branches, and allow the main stem to grow up to about 30cm, then im going to pull the main Cola across and start the LST process, pulling the plant to one side gradually.. I THINK - This will allow the base branches to grow large and then once the top is pulled across, the top half will have light as its to one side, and then the base will be able to get the same light as its to the right, so it will hopefully give good growth?? If you get me??
So will see what happens over nxt couple weeks..But i will be taking leaves over the entire grow as i will be giving best sites most lighting.. Later guys, Smokemup..
LOL.. Bloody caterpillars! Its like me saying i hope i find a Fungus Gnat that can help aerate my roots by only chewing on the bad roots of my plant Funny fooker. So hows things on your side of the fence GIG?? All good i trust.. My new project is looking the part tho so far GIG.. Ive trimmed a few of its first fan leaves, exposing the first base primary branches of the plant to alot more light. They are now just about fully out from the width of the plant. So this is looking good, tho im not sure which way ill go about growing her - I am thinking some LST, but, a little different to Cindy's. Im going to try to isolate the first 6 base branches, and allow the main stem to grow up to about 30cm, then im going to pull the main Cola across and start the LST process, pulling the plant to one side gradually.. I THINK - This will allow the base branches to grow large and then once the top is pulled across, the top half will have light as its to one side, and then the base will be able to get the same light as its to the right, so it will hopefully give good growth?? If you get me??
So will see what happens over nxt couple weeks..But i will be taking leaves over the entire grow as i will be giving best sites most lighting.. Later guys, Smokemup..
lol you know me. always willing to ask the questions others think are too dumb to ask
its not as far fetched as it initially sounds however.
nature is full of creatures that only eat one section of a plant and leave other parts....its just finding the right one.
just imagine the reception the poor fella got that suggested 'using leeches to clean human blood' =D
its not as far fetched as it initially sounds however.
nature is full of creatures that only eat one section of a plant and leave other parts....its just finding the right one.
just imagine the reception the poor fella got that suggested 'using leeches to clean human blood' =D
Korloin
New Member
lol you know me. always willing to ask the questions others think are too dumb to ask
its not as far fetched as it initially sounds however.
nature is full of creatures that only eat one section of a plant and leave other parts....its just finding the right one.
just imagine the reception the poor fella got that suggested 'using leeches to clean human blood' =D
Not dumb IMHO. I'm waiting on a book to arrive so I can better identify potential useful remedies, but this one has been used successfully in OZ (Eh Smokem?) for snail infestations. The same application using a remedy made from whatever caterpillar you are experiencing could be used to deter them from one part of the plant and towards another perhaps. Not sure though. I know the tosta was used, in some cases, to deter snails from the plants but not the surrounding weeds. Basically letting the snails weed the garden for you!
I really have enjoyed this thread and very good information. I read this after a lot of other reading on another subject but this definitely caught my eye. I may have missed this but I'm still unclear on my question. I apologize if this has been covered here and you may direct me to the specific post, but...
How far into flowering can you pinch and twist the stems?
How far into flowering can you pinch and twist the stems?
- Thread starter
- #152
Welcome SeaBow,
It's a good question, one that I can't really quantify with a final answer. The way I think about it is why am I bending this branch and where will I bend it? Branches 6" above the rest get a bend so I can keep the light lower and in the best light absorption zone for the most buds. Alternatively, I also bend earlier to widen the entire plant thus opening the middle and making branches that normally wouldn't get so much light get great light instead and become leaders.
In the most general of terms, we'll have solved these issues even before we are 1/2 way through flower, and there will be less need to bend. There may be an occasional branch here or there to open up light beyond that time, but as we gain experience, we should soon learn and won't need to bend much past that point.
Hope that answers your query.
It's a good question, one that I can't really quantify with a final answer. The way I think about it is why am I bending this branch and where will I bend it? Branches 6" above the rest get a bend so I can keep the light lower and in the best light absorption zone for the most buds. Alternatively, I also bend earlier to widen the entire plant thus opening the middle and making branches that normally wouldn't get so much light get great light instead and become leaders.
In the most general of terms, we'll have solved these issues even before we are 1/2 way through flower, and there will be less need to bend. There may be an occasional branch here or there to open up light beyond that time, but as we gain experience, we should soon learn and won't need to bend much past that point.
Hope that answers your query.
- Thread starter
- #154
@SeaBow,
On the right arrow I might go so far as under the big fan leaf below the arrow and where we can see stem in the pic.
Probably leaving the middle arrow alone for now.
On the left arrow, again, lower, and at about the area of open stem we can see in the pic.
But it's hard to get a good context on the net.
How to bend: two hands, thumb and forefinger to hold branch as lower point. Then slightly squeeze while twisting the stem above the left hand. When it "cracks" (not literally a crack opening in stem), you will feel it. It's at this point I start to twist AND bend in the direction I want her to go. I bend them literally 90 degrees.
If the branch is too heavy and she won't hold at 90, then I run a string up and tie her off for support, loosely. In a couple days she'll hold on her own.
On the right arrow I might go so far as under the big fan leaf below the arrow and where we can see stem in the pic.
Probably leaving the middle arrow alone for now.
On the left arrow, again, lower, and at about the area of open stem we can see in the pic.
But it's hard to get a good context on the net.
How to bend: two hands, thumb and forefinger to hold branch as lower point. Then slightly squeeze while twisting the stem above the left hand. When it "cracks" (not literally a crack opening in stem), you will feel it. It's at this point I start to twist AND bend in the direction I want her to go. I bend them literally 90 degrees.
If the branch is too heavy and she won't hold at 90, then I run a string up and tie her off for support, loosely. In a couple days she'll hold on her own.
Done....
I popped the stem and leaned her over as she's asking 'Why? But why?'
Let's see if she survives the torture.
I popped the stem and leaned her over as she's asking 'Why? But why?'
Let's see if she survives the torture.
- Thread starter
- #156
It's hard to tell in the pic but do the bends show twist to them? The twist adds tons of strength to the bend.
Hey I thought I would share with you what I bought to help me bend stalks in an LST grow I will be trying on some seedlings I just started:
This is a Pexrite Bender:
These are used to make bends in plastic Pex pipe without breaking or kinking it. They can be had a Lowe's, but HD probably has a similar product in their plumbing/Pex aisle. Pex is an under-floor heating pipe they put in walls for the water supply, too. It is a substitute for 1/2" copper in many jurisdictions.
The Pexrite brace has an open "U" channel on one side that will allow me to bend a 5/8" stalk 90 degrees without breakage - not that I would wait that long to LST, but you get the idea of its capabilities. Sorry, but this picture shows the U-channel on the other side. It has a hook on either end that keeps the trunk/pipe from popping out of the jig and a gradual 90-degree bend that allows you to bend and train without snapping or twisting - which is truly LST.
I also like to do a few twists & kinks too, but I try and be conservative. Usually, breaks happen because of accidents - like when I trim the fan leaves or go looking for bugs & hermies; I am always accidentally topping plants or knocking buds off.
If I can, I try to get a branch to hold a position without stressing the trunk fibers at all; after 3 or 4 days, the branch will stay there without the tie/brace and its growth won't be slowed by the recovery time needed when breaks do happen. The only thing I recommend changing is to tape some padding material around the "clips" on the ends because they are sharp plastic and will cut into the trunk & branches. Some duct tape & foam rubber would work, or file/sand down the sharp corners.
This is a Pexrite Bender:
These are used to make bends in plastic Pex pipe without breaking or kinking it. They can be had a Lowe's, but HD probably has a similar product in their plumbing/Pex aisle. Pex is an under-floor heating pipe they put in walls for the water supply, too. It is a substitute for 1/2" copper in many jurisdictions.
The Pexrite brace has an open "U" channel on one side that will allow me to bend a 5/8" stalk 90 degrees without breakage - not that I would wait that long to LST, but you get the idea of its capabilities. Sorry, but this picture shows the U-channel on the other side. It has a hook on either end that keeps the trunk/pipe from popping out of the jig and a gradual 90-degree bend that allows you to bend and train without snapping or twisting - which is truly LST.
I also like to do a few twists & kinks too, but I try and be conservative. Usually, breaks happen because of accidents - like when I trim the fan leaves or go looking for bugs & hermies; I am always accidentally topping plants or knocking buds off.
If I can, I try to get a branch to hold a position without stressing the trunk fibers at all; after 3 or 4 days, the branch will stay there without the tie/brace and its growth won't be slowed by the recovery time needed when breaks do happen. The only thing I recommend changing is to tape some padding material around the "clips" on the ends because they are sharp plastic and will cut into the trunk & branches. Some duct tape & foam rubber would work, or file/sand down the sharp corners.
Smokemupm8
New Member
Hey mate, How are ya??
POints for engenuity!! I like the idea mate
Nuthn better than some DIY
Id just like to say, ive seen a few various ways of tethering/bending branches on plants with LST etc; and some are fairly ' weak ' in means of holding branch in position, where as some are quite adequate. Ive never seen anyone use them style of benders, but Im sure you could apply it some how. I use a method which I find to be easy and fairly good for ones LST or training requirements, But only to a certain degree as once plant gets bigger you may need to add some more tethering points to brace the branches..
I drill holes around the top of the pot lip, and i have some "Gardening Wire' - Rubber coated wire, which i make a small hook shape at one end and then insert the rest into the hole and then secure the wire into position where you need it to hold the branch. You can slack it off a bit every other day easily too if you want, but i find no need, just adjust the position as best you can and over time adjust again til its big enough to have set itself out.
Heres a couple images of what i mean... Nicee and easy
POints for engenuity!! I like the idea mate
Nuthn better than some DIYId just like to say, ive seen a few various ways of tethering/bending branches on plants with LST etc; and some are fairly ' weak ' in means of holding branch in position, where as some are quite adequate. Ive never seen anyone use them style of benders, but Im sure you could apply it some how. I use a method which I find to be easy and fairly good for ones LST or training requirements, But only to a certain degree as once plant gets bigger you may need to add some more tethering points to brace the branches..
I drill holes around the top of the pot lip, and i have some "Gardening Wire' - Rubber coated wire, which i make a small hook shape at one end and then insert the rest into the hole and then secure the wire into position where you need it to hold the branch. You can slack it off a bit every other day easily too if you want, but i find no need, just adjust the position as best you can and over time adjust again til its big enough to have set itself out.
Heres a couple images of what i mean... Nicee and easy
- Thread starter
- #160
I tend to think of my initial experience & fear with bending. It was kinda scary at first as a newcomer. Then the person whom taught me most about defoliation came to my grow. He offered to show me how to bend correctly. Within 1.5 secs the bend was complete! Then he showed me more slowly. It really is just twist & bend. The twisting adds shit tons of strength to the bend just like rope or twine is really many small strands twisted for strength. The twists only go maybe 90 degrees, and the bends about the same. Maybe more twist, not sure to be exact, but that's the general idea.
On a interesting side note. We here at 420mag are lucky as hell having this community. We don't see a bunch of naysayer banter and demands for scientific proofs, name calling and insults for "raping our girls" etc. No this community tends to look, observe, and try out for themselves or decide otherwise. The place where I found this topic and the massive discussion originally posted by a 30+ year grower, has unstickied and closed the thread due to insane amounts of insults and blatant attempts to stir up the shit by those that have never tried this technique and believe they know everything there is to know about growing, in spite of anyone else's experience or proofs. So now a thread with over 500,000 views and over 4000 posts is closed with the intent to make it fall into obscurity.
I feel fortunate to have found the thread and spent many many hours studying it and learning. I feel even more fortunate to have found so many here quietly using this technique to one degree or another and have been for many years.
We're lucky over here at 420mag.
On a interesting side note. We here at 420mag are lucky as hell having this community. We don't see a bunch of naysayer banter and demands for scientific proofs, name calling and insults for "raping our girls" etc. No this community tends to look, observe, and try out for themselves or decide otherwise. The place where I found this topic and the massive discussion originally posted by a 30+ year grower, has unstickied and closed the thread due to insane amounts of insults and blatant attempts to stir up the shit by those that have never tried this technique and believe they know everything there is to know about growing, in spite of anyone else's experience or proofs. So now a thread with over 500,000 views and over 4000 posts is closed with the intent to make it fall into obscurity.
I feel fortunate to have found the thread and spent many many hours studying it and learning. I feel even more fortunate to have found so many here quietly using this technique to one degree or another and have been for many years.
We're lucky over here at 420mag.
